@gmeroni: Just remove the Winter Orbs for the B2B
Also, never cut trinket mages down to 3. My personal piece of advice would be -4 mulldrifter +4 pestermite on Creatures Type 1 selection, but almost everyone around here agrees mulldrifter is good enough.
@ djinn:
I like the aggro builds, with cloud & co. I saw that you were not using any draw engine card in madrid. I personally don't like mulldrifter but I prefere thirst for knowledge as far as I go for the aggro-old style build. but my question is: do ve really need a draw engine (a part from trinket mage & sword) ? that is to say, can we lose I turn tring to find something missing in our hand or should we replace e.g. thirst for a card we would seach for (e.g control magic or sower) ?
Off course we need a drawengine, the card disadvantage we have caused bij both Force of will and Chrome mox can devastate your hand. The deck really needs a way to replenish the hand besides the SoFaI.
Thirst or, in my humble opinion even better, Mulldrifter can draw into Force of Will, Chalice's, ... Things that are quasi allways useful.
Currently playing and testing:
Faerie Stompy
Bant Survival
UW Tempo
Zoo
I understand your opinion that we don't need a "draw option" because we spend one turn to cast and we get 1 card more. If we would play useful stuff in those slots we might be stronger but we need to test it.
Thirst for Knowledge was in the older builds the best possible draw: 2 U, 3 cards, instant, and discard something "useless" artifactial.
Mulldrifter fits more in our aggro-plan: We try to refit our control cards with creatures like Mulldrifter, Sower, Pestermite or Glen Elendra. If there would be a creature with the Challice ability ;)
In the actual lists are only 3 slots for drawspells. This number is enough and we shouldn't cut it. Mulldrifter was great with Swords of Light and Shadow but with the current Wasteland-hype it's hard to get 5 mana. I think we should go back to Thirst for Knowledge^^ other opinions?
I don't get the fact that you guys put TfK over Drifter. I absolutely have no problem evoking Mulldrifter in the early game, because you have to play something right? The only thing we can flash in is Pestermite. I seldomly have open mana in the opponent's turn in the early game (or it would be to dodge daze) so why not evoke at sorcery speed?
You can put in the fact that TfK digs for three, that can be an issue, but TfK can only net you 2 cards max, just like Mulldrifter, but the drawback it has is very relevant to me, discarting moxen in a, as said, wasteland-hyped enveronment is not something I like to do.
Plus Mulldrifter leaves you lategame with 3 cards, a 2/2 flyer in play and 2 cards in hand.
Currently playing and testing:
Faerie Stompy
Bant Survival
UW Tempo
Zoo
Update:
Muldrifter is good enough because i really need to draw cara, and i totally agree with BlackMass, Mulldrifter is better than TFK even in early game!...This is my latest list!
Deck: Faeris Stompy
//Lands
1x Seat of the Synod
9x Island
4x City of Traitors
4x Ancient Tomb
//Creatures
4x Cloud of Faeries
4x Trinket Mage
4x Serendib Efreet
4x Mulldrifter
4x Sea Drake
2x Sower of Temptation
//Spells
2x Sword of Fire and Ice
2x Sword of Light and Shadow
2x Umezawa's Jitte
4x Chalice of the Void
4x Force of Will
4x Chrome Mox
2x Psionic Blast
//Sideboard
3x Propaganda
3x Back to basic
1x Tormod's Crypt
3x Misdirection
3x Weatherseed Faeries
2x Hibernation
Display Deck Statistics
P.s PsiconBlast saved my ass so many times!
gmeroni: throw some Engineered Explosives and Pithing Needle somewhere in the md/sb. Also, the addition of the 3rd jitte to the sideboard might be an interesting option (hate those red decks and the like). How is Hibernation working for you guys? I never tried it because I never felt we had to, but it seems a popular choice nowadays...
I've had in my hand so many time the UJ, but i've never used it because i've put the Cotv on 2!!...with Pneedle it will be' the same...Don't u think?Originally Posted by Djinn
Do you need THAT many equipments?
Quit playing Legacy but could still play Goblins (Rgw, Rg, Rw, Rb)
ジェームス・ブラウン
I'm staring in the mirror looking at my biggest rival.
Maybe jitte will be less, but the two sword are really important because they gave mi life,card and power....i don't think that 6 equip are too much in this deck....
If i'll have a Jitte in the early game i'll play immediatly and only after i'll play cotv at 2...isn't perfect game play?...
Last edited by gmeroni; 05-30-2010 at 04:57 AM.
@Eldariel
Is the list in the opening post still up to date? I am thinking about giving FS a spin and I am looking for a list with which I can start.
It should get you started fine. It's rather recent, though I've experimented with other stuff since. As it stands, might want to gear the SB more for the meta, but the MD should be fine. Glen Elendra Archmage deserves consideration though.
What can i keep out for glen?...i wanna put it in, but i dont know how!
Well, Mulldrifter is a similar longterm card so that's one to consider. Equipment is always an option, and the 'Mite-slot is open. Sower is somewhat a metagame choice too.
Because right now it's a bit different my deck....this is the last version
//Lands
1 Seat of the Synod
9 Island
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
//Creatures
4 Cloud of Faeries
4 Trinket Mage
4 Serendib Efreet
4 Mulldrifter
4 Sea Drake
//Spells
2 Sword of Fire and Ice
2 Sword of Light and Shadow
2 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Force of Will
4 Chrome Mox
2 Psionic Blast
2 Rushing River
I put 2 psicon and 2 river because there is some fucking cards, like enchantment & creatures, that can be very very problematic!
yesterday I took part to a 60-people turnament and didn't do well (3-3). but I wanted to share with you my considerations anyway.
metagame: goblins, merfolks, faeries ugr, black based decks, No bant (with countertop) mostly, some zoo, some canadian.
list I played
22 mana sources with Seat of the Synod (mox+tomb+city+island+synod)
4 cloud of faeries
4 serendib efreet
4 sea drake
3 trinket mage
3 weatherseed faeries
4 force fo will
3 thirst for knowledge
4 chalice of the void
4 Sword of fire and Ice
3 Uwezawa's jitte
1 Basilisk Collar
1 pithing needle
side:
4 propaganda
2 misdirection
3 sower of temptation
1 tormod
1 needle
1 masticore
3 hibernation
matches:
Turn1 team america (2-0)
t1: I smash him with creatures (turn 2 cloud of faeries + jitte + equip. so that he couldn't play daze, then serendib, then drake) in a really fast way. (he made me 2 sinkhole + 2 wasteland... I wonder if I wasn't running cloud...)
t2: same thing. The winning play: Misdirection of hymn to tourach.
Turn2 Merfolk (0-2)
You know what happens when you open with no mana, then mulligan to 6, then no mana, then mulligan to 5 for just 1 island and no land topdeck... same thing for both games. I wasn't happy because it was favorable match up.
Turn3: Red Death (balck based deck with 4 hymn to tourach 4 Blightning some duress, some thoughtsize 4 bolts, 4 confidant, some arena, some hypnotic spcter, some tombstalker... ) (2-0)
t1: I play some creatures and he all bots me, untill I play a weatherseed faeries + jitte for the win (he also made me some discards and drwing with confidant)
t2: misdirection on Blightning + pro-red creature for the win
Turn4: BG Dark depth with mox diamond (1-2)
he starts: land+mox(land)+tourach. I play land-pass. He makes a second tourach. I play land-pass (nearly notting in my hand left). he plays toughtsize + wasteland my tomb. result: I have an island in play and no cards in hand. LOL
t2: I start angry: pithing needle on vampire hexmage; then Chalice @ 2, then serendib, then double drake for the win.
t3: mulligan to 5 thanks to no lands. no lands even then, lose. I was quite pissed off because I wanted to win that game.
(side: -1 equip -3 pro-red + 2 midD + 2 Sower. the reason why just 2 sower in is that he plays 8 hate vs my lands )
turn5: natural order + counter-top Bant (2-0)
t1: I smash him even if he resolves 2 qasali (on destroyed chalice and one sword) and 2 swords to plowshares. I'm too fast.
t2: I take out 3 weatherseed faeries, the collar and the 3 thirsts for + 3 sower + 1 misdirection + 3 hibernation. The reason Why I play sower in spite of control magic in the side is because opponents side in hate vs artifacta/enchantments more than creatures.
same as t1. I play creatures + artifacts and he destrys everything with qasalis and swords. then he plays balance.
I play cloud and he shows natural order with balance.
He now have: 4 mana on field + Noble Hierarch + 3 cards in hand (one is natural order)
I have: tomb+island+cloud+SoF&I on field. In my hand force+misd+2sower+mox+hibenation
I play mox pithing force (little bluff). he smiles (I wanted to have 4 mana cause of daze and being able to play sower. I imaginated force + daze in his hand wich was the worse situation). I pass. He plays natural order and progenitus. I say ok. EOT: hibernation. he says ok. (so no force to misdirect)
then I won with sower in play and sower + misd in hand + a drawed blue pitch to be sure.
turn6: faeries UGR (0-2)
notting to say. too strong opponent, too difficult match up:
t1: me chalice @ 1; he forces
me: serendib: he forces
me: drake; he bolts
he standstill. I lose
same in t2 for the first turns. then I succeeded in resolving a weatherseed faeries + jitte but it was not sufficient as far as he plays E.E. @ 2 and wasted me twice.
MY analysis of my games is the following:
I lost just one game I played (faeries). I won the 3 games I played (Team america, bant, red death). I didn't play 2 games cause of too much mulligan for mana (and I don't play casting cost 4/5 spells) and they weren't bad match ups (vs dark depth just need or misD, because of tourach and friends... or needle or chalice @ 2). Bad luck for mulligans. and good play vs the won matchs. maybe winning vs bant and team america balances the bad luck of mulligans !!??
I expected to lose 1/7% games because of mullingans. but this time they were too much...
during the games I was making that thoughts while I was dopping my spells:
weatherseed faeries: "And if she was a sower/pestermite?". MY unswer was every time weatherseed faeries because remouvals now in Italy are mostly red (bolts, helix, fire//ice, lavamancer, firespout...). StP are just 4X in decks and go under chalice @ 1.
thirst for knowledge: "And if it was mulldrifter?". Never had 5 mana to cast if. wasteland and co. are very popular here.
Cloud of faeries allways allowed me to go around dazes and do multiple drops. I can't imagine playing without them.
Minsdirection: "and if it was Glen?". I could have not misdirect a hymn to tourach or diabolic edict for the win.
In that metagame I see the old style build as more efficient and the weatherseed faeries a good choice for the day.
(top8 was: 1 new horizon, 2 goblins, 1 merfolk, 1 elves, 2 faeries ugr)
as for the side I will probabely increase to 3X misdirection and maybe find room for back to basics.
I know you mostly play the new version with mulldrifter, glen, sower. I tried it and it works really good. but I think going back to the oldish version is better in Italy. so, my question is: how is you breakdown of the turnaments?
...so that I can understand if you quite all play the new version in my same matagame or if that's because your metagame is more slow.
I agree with eldariel: FS is still good in the metagame bacause control decks are less now. If we start in an explosive way we can deal with nearly everyone. we just need to play it again. (even bant is a problem, we need perfect plays against him).
... sorry for the long post...
Everyone gets bitten by the mulligan bug from time to time, its the nature of the deck. I always find I mulligan more playing FS than with other decks.
Weatherseed Faeries just doesn't do enough for me. Sure pro red is great, but it doesn't have the same versatility as Pestermite. Where I play red is not as popular as it seems for you. If Pestermite doesn't stick around it's fine, you can often create a more favourable combat situation or tap down a vital piece of the opponents board.
You have to stop looking at Mulldrifter as just a five drop. Late game if you happen to have 5 mana and you top deck it you get two more cards and a 2/2 flyer. If you've played out your hand early you curve right into a drawing two cards. In your deck with Cloud of Faeries you would think you could use Mulldrifter quite easily?
I love Misdirection against certain decks as well. I'm not sure Misdirection and Glen Elendra Archmage are competing for the same slot. I feel Glen Elendra Archmage gives you another tool to use against control or combo decks. Misdirection isn't as good against those decks.
You have to tweak your deck to the expected meta in your area, I don't think anyone will hold that against you. However, that doesn't mean that your particular build is going to succeeded everywhere.
-Andrew
I have always liked Aven Mindcensor, and how it shuts off a great bunch of strategies (NO, Survival, Reanimator to some extent, and fetchlands). But for it to be most effective, it has to powered out in the early game, which is quite difficult in legacy. So my first thought was to make a Faerie Stompy variant which splashed white, and used Mindcensor.
The following list is quite untested, but I will meet up with some guys during the weekend to test it out, and I wanted some feedback, whether you think this will work at all or if you have some suggestions for testing. (Also, if you think this will be significantly worse than a mono-U list, just say so :P)
So first my suggested list:
//mana - 26
4 Tundra
4 Flooded Strand
1 island
1 plains
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Wasteland
4 Mox diamond
//Dudes - 22
4 Aven Mindcensor
3 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Trinket Mage
4 Sea Drake
4 Mulldrifter
3 Serendib Efreet
//Stuff - 12
4 Force of Will
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of fire and ice
1 Sword of light and shadow
1 Sigil of distinction
Blue count: 19
This is obviously quite low. But it will probably be hard to up this further, without removing the splash. I guess this is the price for splashing.
I would like to play Glen Elendra Archmage instead of Serendib Efreet, as I like how it hoses combo and control to a very great degree, I'm just afraid it will remove a lot of the aggressiveness of the deck, and it might just be because I usually plays control or aggro-control with emphasis on the control part.
I haven't given a sideboard any thoughts yet. I'll look into that if this works out at all...
I've decided that this is going to be the first Legacy deck I buy. It looks damn fun and it has FoW which sets me up for feature success. How's this for an initial MD?
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
10 Island
4 Chrome Mox
1 Shoreline Ranger
4 Serendib Efreet
4 Trinket Mage
4 Sea Drake
3 Sower of Temptation
4 Mulldrifter
2 Pestermite
4 Force of Will
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Pithing Needle
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Basilisk Collar
1 Relic of Progenitus
2 Umezawa's Jitte
I don't think Basilik Collar is good enough. Plus it handcuffs you when you want to set Chalice at 1. The same goes for Relic of Progenitus.
Consider Sigil of Distinction and Tormod's Crypt
Other than that you've got a pretty good start...
-Andrew
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