Here's my most recent list:
Creatures: 18
4 Illusory Angel
4 Serendib Efreet
2 Mulldrifter
4 Misthollow Griffin
4 Fettergeist
Counter: 4
4 Force of Will
Draw: 8
4 Brainstorm
4 Manipulate Fate
Equipment: 5
3 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Sword of Fire and Ice
Hawt Sawce: 2
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Mana: 23
4 Chrome Mox
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Seat of the Synod
7 Island
SB: 3 Phyrexian Revoker
SB: 2 Gilded Drake
SB: 4 Spell Pierce
SB: 1 Sword of Light and Shadow
SB: 2 Back to Basics
SB: 3 Tormod's Crypt
SB needs some work still, but that's up to your meta game. I run a ton of draw over the MD revokers/chalice and I'm happy. Holy crap is Manipulate Fate good in this deck. The first one is a draw 4, the second/third/fourth are amazing because they remove the unneeded crap from the deck in late game scenarios as well as provide shuffle for the jace and brainstorms.
#mtgfinance follow on twitter: @mtgStaples
Originally Posted by OBFREELY
Team Brown & Team Unicorn. Does that make me a Brown Unicorn?
Just wondering - how come you're running Seat of the Synod in your list? I'm not seeing any Metalcraft stuff nor Trinket Mage to fetch them? I think being Wastelandable is more relevant than being safe from Choke.
It was still in there after debating on using TFK/Trinket Mage. Just forget to take them out, no worries.
#mtgfinance follow on twitter: @mtgStaples
Team Brown & Team Unicorn. Does that make me a Brown Unicorn?
Went 1-2-drop at my LGS weekly event last night (2-0 v. RUG Delver, 1-2 v. Pox, 0-2 v. Goblins) running this list:
Creatures (22)
4x Illusory Angel
4x Serendib Efreet
3x Phyrexian Revoker
4x Misthollow Griffin
3x Mulldrifter
4x Cloud of Faeries
Business (16)
4x Force of Will
4x Chalice of the Void
2x Manipulate Fate
3x Sword of Fire and Ice
3x Umezawa's Jitte
Mana (22)
4x Chrome Mox
4x City of Traitors
4x Ancient Tomb
10x Island
SB (15):
2x Faerie Macabre
3x Trinisphere
2x Propaganda
1x Tormod's Crypt
4x Submerge
3x Phantasmal Image
Pox is obviously a terrible matchup for us since they have very few 1 cmc spells (CotV at 2 is much better if you can get there) and the LD is bruuutal. In general, our deck mulligans terrible too, but we already knew that.
I got my face smashed by goblins, but that matchup in general doesn't seem too bad. It's another match where Chalice doesn't do a whole lot, and in my case while resolving an early Propaganda would have helped me a lot, the mana denial in that deck caused me a lot of problems. Also, in game two he had two Incinerators to clear the board against me and alpha strike for a billion (thanks Krenko), after I had mulled to five game one with a one lander against turn 2 Port.
On topic for deck construction: Seriously, Misthollow is so, SO fucking terrible. Last night was my third tournament running it, and I have felt the same way since the start. I wish it wasn't so shitty, because I love what we CAN do with it (Moxes, FoW, Manipulate Fate, etc.), but every match when I get in the position to play it for it's actual purpose, it's not scary enough to justify running for that cost. I'd rather run Sea Sprite or Weatherseed Faeries or Pestermite, and those cards suck too.
I've liked Misthollow myself. It isn't a huge amount of pressure on its own without equipment, but none of our guys are. It's there to turn your early game card disadvantage into mid game pressure to finish off your opponent. If you haven't been putting early game pressure on them, then yeah it's not that great.
It's also another creature that white decks have issues dealing with since StP is so commonly played.
Still good to hear another viewpoint on it though.
I'm not a fan of Chalice and Phyrexian Revoker builds at the moment, and I dislike chalice more. The deck needs brainstorm, play it. The only decks that fold to chalice at 1 are combo/rug, both of which don't even completely fold to it. Its reward is not worth the drawback of not playing brainstorm yourself and spell pierce out of the board.
As for misthollow he's been a beast in my testing. Being able to force/chrome mox early on without a drawback is an amazing feeling for the late game. That along with Manipulate Fate have upped the consistency very well. Along wit Brainstorm/Jace I rarely have to mull now because even if I can't land a turn 1 4/4 flier I still have some gas and draw to stay in the game instead of top decking Chalice of the Void or Phyrexian Revoker.
#mtgfinance follow on twitter: @mtgStaples
Team Brown & Team Unicorn. Does that make me a Brown Unicorn?
Although I agree that Misthollow Griffin is not a great card, I've found it to be good in this deck. I'm not playing the Mainpualte Fate combo, but even without it it is good to have a card I always want to pitch to FoW and Mox.
This deck has an enourmous amount of card disadvantage, and it is good to have something that amenizes it and still fits the deck's overall strategy.
EDIT: I've tried to replace Griffin and Chrome Mox by Wastelands and Mox Diamond, and preferred the Chrome Moxes and the Griffins.
# The Bizarro Super Powers Team
Don't get me wrong, I'm loving Misthollow Griffin right now, but I'll readily admit that I could be in danger of getting too enamored of cool things.
For me, it's been great to really offset our early card disadvantage and turns it into mid-late game evasive creatures (which we want at that point anyways).
I think Chalice is actually pretty amazing right now and fairly important for the deck. Chalice @ 1 is needed to help protect our guys from StP, which is really nasty on us since we're usually burning early cards to power out a threat early.
Given that we don't run any fetch lands or really any shuffle effects, I don't think Brainstorm would be that great for us. If you want something like that, I'd consider 2 mana spells like Impulse (I've considered these, but wanted to mess with just a more threat dense build).
The list above should probably be running 5 - 6 Fetchlands with Brainstorm. This also offers the ability for a light splash if you want access to sideboard hate, but that probably isn't necessary. There is no reason not to run the fetches.
And if you are that worried about stp, run more mulldrifters. Misthollow/Manipulate fate also offsets that. The only real drawback to no chalice is the combo matchup, and that is mostly sneak and show/reanimator anyway. Sneak and show doesn't really care about chalice, and reanimator can be fought with your sideboard.
they haunt minds...
The issue I've had with Mulldrifters is that at 3 mana, you'd usually cast a threat than a draw 2 spell. At 5 mana, I tend to want something a little more threatening (Jace, Equipment + Equip, etc.). It does play very nicely with SoLS, but SoLS isn't a great offensive weapon and I think if you get the recursion going, you've already won the game anyways.
I'm a pretty big fan of Chalice also for the RUG matchup. Shutting off their Brainstorms & Ponders really reduces the consistency of their deck, which buys you time to overwhelm them with your superior attackers.
Right now I'm also experimenting with a pair of Back to Basics in the board. Yes, the Seats I'm playing does make it worse, but I'd be bringing them in for matchups where it'd hurt them a heck of a lot more (and I still have 8 Basic Islands + 3 Chrome Mox + 2 Mox Opals).
Our weekly Legacy tournament didn't fire today, but we had 5 people show up and we played a 5 man round-robin winner-take-all tournament instead ($5 entry fee, winner gets the pot in store credit).
Here's the current list:
// Lands
8 [ZEN] Island (3a)
4 [EX] City of Traitors
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb
4 [MR] Seat of the Synod
// Creatures
4 [P12] Illusory Angel
4 [R] Serendib Efreet
4 [AVR] Misthollow Griffin
3 [MBS] Phyrexian Revoker
3 [SOM] Etched Champion
// Spells
3 [MR] Chrome Mox
3 [GPX] Umezawa's Jitte
2 [SOM] Mox Opal
4 [MR] Chalice of the Void
4 [AL] Force of Will
2 [DS] Sword of Fire and Ice
2 [IN] Manipulate Fate
2 [WWK] Jace, the Mind Sculptor
// Sideboard
SB: 1 [MBS] Phyrexian Revoker
SB: 2 [6E] Cursed Totem
SB: 2 [LRW] Sower of Temptation
SB: 2 [V09] Trinisphere
SB: 3 [CH] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 3 [TE] Propaganda
SB: 2 [US] Back to Basics
Still not 100% sold on the B2B and am considering Smokestack or something for the control matchup. I'm open to suggestions here. I don't tend to like less than 3 yard hate cards, but Propaganda helps with the Dredge matchup and Sowers help vs Reanimator. In other matchups where they have some yard dependancy (Loam, etc.) we just go for more speed and don't worry too much about their yard.
I also kind of want a 1-of Hurkyll's Recall for artifact heavy decks, but think maybe it's just a psychological crutch for me? Propaganda works just fine against Affinity and with this deck, we don't have any real deck manipulation or tutoring to find a 1-of anyways.
Round 1 - vs David (RGW Aggro Loam)
David's playing one of his long time pet decks that he'd gone back to (since we don't have a large tournament to prepare for, many of us are playing pet/jankier decks).
Game 1: Chalice @1 followed by an Illusory Angel followed by SoFI = fast clock.
-3 Umezawa's Jitte
-1 Phyrexian Revoker
+2 Cursed Totem (shuts off Pridemages & Knights)
+2 Sower of Temptation
Game 2: We both mull to 5, but he get stuck with 1 land + Mox Diamond. My Revoker on his Diamond + SoFI shut him out and prompts a quick scoop.
1-0 (2-0)
Round 2 - vs Eugene (Dredge)
Eugene has also gone back to one of his old standby decks - Dredge. It's a good test to see how my sideboard stands up to it.
Game 1: Eugene goes for the DDD plan discarding Grave Trolls from the get go. The game actually goes long as he Dredges a Narcomeba + Cabal Therapy and blind hits my Sword of Fire & Ice out of my hand and I have to race him with 2x Serendibs + Revoker while he's only got 1 Bridge in the yard and has to slowly make zombies with Ichorids. I eventually rip the Jitte and it buys me enough life to win the game.
-2 Jace the Mind Sculptor
-1 Etched Champion
-3 Phyrexian Revoker (I figure on the draw, they won't come down fast enough to do anything to an LED or Putrid Imp)
+3 Tormod's Crypt
+3 Propaganda
Game 2: Eugene goes for the fast LED, Breakthrough for 0, cracking LED in response to his Breakthrough, pitching 2x Golgari Grave Trolls. I have the Force for the Breakthrough and windmill slam down a Propaganda. Eugene starts dredging like crazy, hitting double Ancient Grudge (which kills my Jitte and Mox Opal), but doesn't get Dread Return + Woodfall Primus before my Illusory Angel + Etched Champion get him.
2-0 (4-0)
Round 3 - vs Drew (Imperial Painter)
Drew is DrewliusMaximus on here. He's been playing Painter forever and fairly consistently does well at the SCG events when they're in Texas. I really wish I had the Hurkyl's Recall here!
Game 1: I get out a Revoker on his Top, then a Chalice @ 1, then eventually get a beater out to finish him off.
-2 Sword of Fire & Ice (Painter naming blue makes these useless)
-1 Etched Champion
+1 Phyrexian Revoker
+2 Cursed Totem (shuts off Jaya & Welder)
Game 2: This one goes long. I get an early Chalice @ 1, then Manipulate Fate and start flooding the sky with Griffins. However, Drew gets down a Ratchet Bomb, blows my Chalice and Mox Opal, which lets him start Blasting away. Eventually he gets out Ensnaring Bridge and burns me out with Jaya before I can find an answer to Jaya.
Game 3: This time I have Forces for his Ensnaring Bridges and enough Revokers for his stuff. Between Ancient Tombs and his early small beats (with his own Revokers), I get low on life, but stabilize at 5 after casting Manipulate Fate and getting 2 Griffins + Etched Champion on the board along with a Chalice @ 1 and Chalice @ 2. With enough guys to play defense, my Griffins end the game in a couple turns.
3-0 (6-1)
Round 4 - vs Ty (Uw Miracles w/Land Tax
Ty doesn't play Legacy a huge amount, but he plays a lot of MTG in general and is our current Texas State Champion! He's still fairly familiar with the format and a more than good enough player to make up for any inexperience in the matchups.
Game 1: Ty opens with T1 Land Tax and of course he has the Daze for my Chalice @ 1. However, I Force back and Chalice gets down. T2, I drop Mox Opal, Chalice @ 0 (giving the Opal Metalcraft), then go for Illusory Angel... Ty has the second Daze! Argh! Manipulate Fate, SoFI, and flock (herd? pride? clowder?) of Griffins take to the air while his hand is all full of 1 drops.
-3 Jitte
+1 Revoker
+2 Back to Basics (while this would normally be bad against UW, I don't think Ty is expecting it since I notice he's been fetching a lot of Tundras. I don't think B2B is bad against Esper Stoneblade either)
Game 2: No T1 Land Tax, yes! Ty Forces my T1 Chalice, which makes my T2 Etched Champion (with only a Seat as the other artifact) not protected. However, Ty doesn't have the StP for it so I get a little bit of Champion beats in before he T3 rips Entreat the Angels and Entreats X = 1, making my non-metalcrafted Champion feeling very awkward. I have the Back to Basics in my hand (he had 2 Tundras + 1 Plains tapped) and rip Jace on my draw step. While B2B would be amazing here, I played the Jace instead and bounce the Angel. Next turn, I drop SoFI (resolves) and start beating with the equipped Champion while Jace starts brainstorming. While I win the game pretty handily (even got to shuffle away bad cards with Jace + Manipulate Fate!), I think I should've dropped the B2B then dropped Jace the next turn. However, B2B at that point would've been really damaging to me as well since I had mostly Sol Lands and the Seat out (only 1 Islands in play).
4-0 (8-1)
So as much as I like the idea of B2B, I'm not certain it's correct in this particular build due to the Seats. Still looking for suggestions on sideboard cards to replace B2B to make the control matchup (particularly vs Esper Stoneblade & UW Miracles) better.
@ Esper
Cingrats. I am liking the list but the 3 jittes seem akward.
Thanks! These are just our local Legacy games, so not huge results or anything, but it's good for ground level testing to get a feel for how things are working out.
I definitely agree 3 Jitte is a little bit awkward. However, since we don't have any real ways to tutor or dig for it, I feel we have to run 3+ in order to make sure we hit it since it's just so dominating against so many decks.
I feel it's also important to have more Jittes than less because it gives us yet another 2 drop artifact we can play off of a T1 Sol land.
I did get stuck once today against Imperial Painter where his Revoker was naming my Jitte and I had one in my hand, which sucked. Normally though, they'll just destroy your Jitte and you can play/equip your spare.
Did sea drake get replaced with misthallow griffin? I think I still like sea drake better.
I think you want the last 2 Jaces over Back to Basics if that spot is for control. You can run them out earlier than they can, and if you stick the first Jace your odds of winning go way up.
they haunt minds...
+1
@alphastorm: Misthollow Griffin didn't replace Sea Drake (at least directly), most lists have been testing out Illusory Angel in that slot instead. Although at this point (and my anti-love affair with Griffin) I might try testing out Angel and Drake since they're more cost-efficient beaters.
just curious esper, how has sea drake tested? just wondering since i have some in my binder and have considered him expendable!
-rob
I really like espers list and think about playing it at a local tourney tomorrow.
Just a few questions/suggestions:
IMO Angel and drake are tied for the same slots in the deck cause both are strongest on turn 1. Drake has no drawback then and angel could obviously be played off a mox.
I think about adding a single drake as "5th Angel" to increase the number of strong 1st turn plays beside CotV.
I like the combination of Chrome Mox and Mox Opal.
What about increasing the number for another chrome mix and maybe a mox opal and cutting islands/seat for it?
With Misthollow Griffin you are able to play Chrome Mox without CDA. You play the griffin if you don't need the mana or your hand is empty. Moxen support City of Traitors and metalcraft for Etched Champion. With Jace you have a chance to brainstorm multiple mopals away.
I think I will move the revokers to SB and want to replace it with some Vault Skirge. I can imagine this card is strong in that deck. The body is boltable but in comparism to your other creatures you don't lose much speed since you trade a 1 mana card against another 1 mana card. It plays around chalice, is another enabler for Illusory Angel and metalcraft, it flies and compensates the lifeless from Ancient Tomb when equipped.
Thanks! Yeah last week in my final list that's exactly what I ended up doing.
The rise of Merfolk makes this deck a little worse, but it makes me even happier to have the Propagandas now.
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Reply With Quote