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Thread: [Deck] Faerie Stompy

  1. #41
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    Re: [Deck] Faerie Stompy

    I've tested 4 different lists against Zoo and played a very large number of games. Pre-board I am less than 30%. Is this just an abyssmal matchup?

    Even in games when I was able to land Turn 1 chalice, I often still lost.

    I have tested propaganda maindeck and it didn't improve my zoo matchup. I even got mad and splashed red for firespout, and only won 3/10.

    Does anyone have a list that they claim can beat Zoo pre-board at least 50%, or is that just asking for too much?
    Fools dig for water, corpses or gold
    The ice in my teeth keep the Cristal cold
    I be shoot'n lava around like an uzi
    Watch me turn this glacier into a jacuzzi
    I'm so hot people standing around me, just to stay warm
    Castin' so many spells looks like I'm playin' Storm
    I fuck all your creatures without any lotion
    Skeet in yo face, Erratic Explosion
    Every time you look I'm doing 2 to your dome!
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  2. #42
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    Re: [Deck] Faerie Stompy

    I have the same problem and adressed it. Eldariel gave this reply:
    Quote Originally Posted by Eldariel View Post
    Submerge is excellent. Misdirection too. Control Magic overloads their Qasalis some more. And if you for whatever reason don't rely on Chalice at 1, Relic-fetch to shut down Grim & Goyf and slow down KoR is an option too. Though the basic plan of "Chalice at 1, at 2 if you draw second, Force Qasali if you don't and if they draw it, second Chalice at 1 if you don't have time to play Chalice at 2" has served me really well. Do you truly find the MU to be as difficult as you make it out to be? They don't run Force, they don't run Daze, cutting into their tempo tools quite a bit. They only have 4 MD ways to remove Chalice, all of which are horribly slow (3 is Krosan Grip-mana). If they have to remove Chalice, even if they do it, you can generally beat them. They can't let Jitte get online and they can't really race SoFI efficiently.
    I haven't been able to test it yet though. Thank goodness Zoo's presence in the European meta is going downhill.
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  3. #43
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    Re: [Deck] Faerie Stompy

    Look at Djinn's list; he's posted a very respectable pre-board win record against Zoo in the GP (and has done so for an extended period of time). I'm pretty confident it's about how you approach the match-up. Propaganda is, IMHO, the wrong approach as that enables them to assume the control role and just answer your guys while you're down a card. If you side out creatures for Propaganda, their job of killing all your dudes became really easy, and they can just assume the control-role, breaking your face with one big hit at a time while killing all the guys you play.

    If you side out equipment for it, you side out gamebreakers for stall effects. In the MU, I'd only side out gamebreakers for other gamebreakers, or weaker MD cards (maybe 1-2 creatures and Needles) for utility. We definitely need to keep an eye on the target though.


    You can find his list here: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...ht=#post433142

    For the record, my list before I started experimenting was pretty close except Mulldrifter over Cloud of Faeries, 3 Sowers over the mishmash and 1 more land over Pestermite. And I was posting a rather good win percentage against Zoo too. Though I'm thinking maybe it'd be worthwhile to record an extended testing session against some Generic Zoo Build...


    Either way, if you want further edge in the Zoo MU, the following cards should be high on the list to consider:
    - Misdirection
    - Weatherseed Faeries
    - Control Magic (or Threads, but Control Magic is frankly just better here)

    As far as MDables go. Sideboard can have more dedicated cards like Submerges, BEB and company. Though BEB is probably not worth it with Chalice being such a huge part of your gameplan.

  4. #44
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    Re: [Deck] Faerie Stompy

    Thank you for your responces. I'll be testing this list out with and without the changes you have suggested, Eldariel.

    I agree about propaganda. It tested exceedingly well against goblins, but failed against zoo.

    Sower was underwhelming against zoo unless I had Chalice or FoW protection. Without any protection Sower would steal something and then Zoo would remove sower and get their creature back next turn.

    I already run Weatherseed Faeries in my board and I'll test Misdirection out once I get my maindeck down.

    Along Bolts, Chain Lightning, and Path at the 1cc range, the Zoo list I'm testing against runs Lightning Helix which helps it get around Chalice and kill my creatures.

    I'll post my results when I reach a conclusion.
    Fools dig for water, corpses or gold
    The ice in my teeth keep the Cristal cold
    I be shoot'n lava around like an uzi
    Watch me turn this glacier into a jacuzzi
    I'm so hot people standing around me, just to stay warm
    Castin' so many spells looks like I'm playin' Storm
    I fuck all your creatures without any lotion
    Skeet in yo face, Erratic Explosion
    Every time you look I'm doing 2 to your dome!
    So scoop up your cards and take your broke ass home

    -G.L.M.

  5. #45
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    Re: [Deck] Faerie Stompy

    Have any of you tested Basilisk Collar?
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  6. #46
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    Re: [Deck] Faerie Stompy

    Is it totally, totally slow to plan on boarding in Winter Orb and Pendrell Mist against Zoo? Alternatively, you can bring in Tabernacle, if you're made of dollars.

    Also, I see Basilisk Collar as being great against Zoo because of lifelink but unplayable due to costing 1 when you want to Chalice that number all day long. Any potential for other lifelinking cards like Loxodon Warhammer?

  7. #47
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    Re: [Deck] Faerie Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by hi-val View Post
    Is it totally, totally slow to plan on boarding in Winter Orb and Pendrell Mist against Zoo? Alternatively, you can bring in Tabernacle, if you're made of dollars.

    Also, I see Basilisk Collar as being great against Zoo because of lifelink but unplayable due to costing 1 when you want to Chalice that number all day long. Any potential for other lifelinking cards like Loxodon Warhammer?
    Heh. WOrb + Pendrell Mists is what I'd file under "too cute", rather than "too slow"; I'm quite confident you can find better uses for those card slots. Same with Tabernacle; I don't see mana denial plan being efficient by focusing only ~8-12 cards on it. Unlike Chalice, those cards do little on their own so they need a lot of support to pull the gameplan together.

    I tested Basilisk Collar for a while and never ended up tutoring for it. It just...didn't feel all that good. I was never simply in a position where finding it over Chalice, Sigil, Needle, Mox/Land or EE was strategically sound, and when I did have need for it, it just didn't do all that much.


    For Big Lox, 6 mana is quite a bit more than 5 in a deck that usually aims to generate mana sources along the lines of 2UU or 4U with 3 sources. As such, it's quite a bit weaker than both Swords here. Also, Jitte and SoFI generally just do better job at that role, though if wanting some lifegain equipment, SoLS isn't horrible either and was played here momentarily as control and midrange presented more of the field.

    Lox is also more prone to having the equipped creature removed due to not pumping the butt nor granting relevant Protections. I'm mostly theorycrafting here, but on a strategic level, I do not think Loxodon Warhammer is a sound option. If we find we want more lifegain, considering SoLS in the SoFI slot may be worthwhile, but I've usually found having an equipped body is enough.


    Oh, I totally forgot to state the obvious; Engineered Explosives is quite excellent against Zoo and something I always bring in. If you find yourself in trouble against Zoo pre-board, feel free to MD it over Needle. Needle makes Chalice lockdown easier, sure, but EE pops a bunch of Nacalts/Grims/Steppe Lynxes/Apes and slows down their assault by tons. If one runs off-color artiland or a singleton Mox Diamond, it can also KO the 2-drop crew.

    On the other hand, I'm not sure whether Relic of Progenitus is good enough to bring in. EE can be used with Chalice in play to remove whatever slipped through but Relic is stopped by it. On the other hand, Relic turns their meanest animals into cute pets, at least momentarily, while cantripping making it a fine tool for buying time when on the defensive; a scenario where Chalice is unlike to be that useful.

  8. #48
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    Re: [Deck] Faerie Stompy

    I'm trying to fit the new Jace in, but I can't find room. I don't want to give up any creatures. Perhaps the maindeck Pithing Needle for 1 Jace could be okay?

    I tested against Enchantress yesterday though. Turns out I completely forgot about that match-up in the sideboard. Turns out, you don't really need a sideboard against Enchantress: all I could do was -2 Sower, +2 Glen Elendra. Just play your Chalices at 1 and at 2, and keep your counters for Solitary Confinement and you should be fine. When he resolves a Replenish, you're fucked though. We played about 3 matches: I won 2 games pre-board he won 1; post-board I won all the games I think.

    Quote Originally Posted by hi-val View Post
    Is it totally, totally slow to plan on boarding in Winter Orb and Pendrell Mist against Zoo? Alternatively, you can bring in Tabernacle, if you're made of dollars.
    If you go down that road I suppose you end up with Blue Stax which sucks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldariel View Post
    On the other hand, I'm not sure whether Relic of Progenitus is good enough to bring in.
    I don't even run Relic of Progenitus in my sideboard because alot of decks where this card is good, Chalice@1 is better and Tormod's Crypt suffices. I would prefer just stealing the Tarmogoyf over simply crippling him for a few turns. Control Magic is good but perhaps Dominate is better?
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  9. #49
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    Re: [Deck] Faerie Stompy

    Dominate costs 3UU to control a Goyf; that's squarely one land more than Control Magic at 2UU. Further, Dominate's potency is pretty much at its limits there. You'll never Dominate Tombstalker, Sphinx of the Steel Winds, Blazing Archon, Baneslayer Angel or hell, Knight of Reliquary/Doran is gonna cost you a fortune. If Dominate was XUU, it might be consideration-worthy, but as it stands, Control Magic is just so much more efficient it's not really even funny.

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    Re: [Deck] Faerie Stompy

    The idea behind Dominate is ofcourse that the creatures which are near-impossible to get are hardly played. Well, in my meta anyway. You'll see the occasional Tombstalker and Knight of the Reliquary, but every other creature you've mentioned I've never seen in a game of Legacy at a tournament. No, not even Doran. So far I'm using three Control Magics in my sideboard, and they're great, but at the moment, I'm considering a 2/1 split. Another advantage of Dominate is that you can cast it EoT or when attackers are declared. Now I'm not saying Dominate is heaven on earth or anything, it just seems that the reasons you mention don't weigh as much as the disenchant immunity and surprize effect it may have. I also have 4 Submerges in my sideboard to deal with most decks packing Tombstalkers and the Knights of Reliquary.
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  11. #51
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    Re: [Deck] Faerie Stompy

    The extra cost is the big thing. It requires 4 sources of mana in play to get a Goyf; you only need 3 sources to cast Control Magic. IMHO that alone is enough reason to not play it; instantness is nice as is undisenchantability, but not at the cost of being unable to cast it in the first place.

  12. #52

    Re: [Deck] Faerie Stompy

    Hi, on the pre-release of Worldwake I came across this:

    Pilgrim's Eye
    3
    Artifact Creature - Thopter Common
    Flying
    When Pilgrim's Eye enters the battlefield, search your library for a basic land, reveal it, and put it into your hand. Then shuffle your library.

    I was just wondering, with the 5 mana mulldrifters and 2uu sowers and the introduction of the slower to equip SoLaS, can this thing be included as a 3 or 4 of? I'm considering testing it in the following ways:
    take out 2 pestermite and 1 mulldrifter,
    or 1 chrome mox and shoreline ranger and 1 mulldrifter

    Pros:
    Card advantage
    Tempo advantage
    Fix high casting and equip costs, enable turn 2 sower or chalice @2 if needed.
    Fix 4 colorless mana hands

    Cons:
    Decreased Blue count (think Fow, chrome mox)
    Small body

    What do you guys think?
    Threads of Disloyalty: Take control of target Tarmogoyf. Smother: Destroy target Tarmogoyf. Spellsnare: Counter target Tarmogoyf. Spell Pierce: Counter target non-Tarmogoyf spell.

  13. #53
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    Re: [Deck] Faerie Stompy

    I'm willing to test it in the slot of Pestermite, that card has always been very unimpressive for me. But still, the blue count...
    If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, it's probably delicious.
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  14. #54
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    Re: [Deck] Faerie Stompy

    What is its power and toughness? Should I assume since its a Thoptor its an 0/X?

    Lately I've found Pestermite to be more useful than I originally thought. I will also never run more than 3 mulldrifter.
    Fools dig for water, corpses or gold
    The ice in my teeth keep the Cristal cold
    I be shoot'n lava around like an uzi
    Watch me turn this glacier into a jacuzzi
    I'm so hot people standing around me, just to stay warm
    Castin' so many spells looks like I'm playin' Storm
    I fuck all your creatures without any lotion
    Skeet in yo face, Erratic Explosion
    Every time you look I'm doing 2 to your dome!
    So scoop up your cards and take your broke ass home

    -G.L.M.

  15. #55

    Re: [Deck] Faerie Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by Holiday View Post
    What is its power and toughness? Should I assume since its a Thoptor its an 0/X?

    Lately I've found Pestermite to be more useful than I originally thought. I will also never run more than 3 mulldrifter.
    Forgot to mention, it is a 1/1 flyer.

    The reason I consider including it is a situation I've been in too many times:

    1. Your opponent drops a big guy you can't race (tombstalker, goyf, dreadnought etc.)
    2. You play pestermite to tap the opponents's creature and have to use it the next turn for chump blocking or you lose.
    3. You still did not draw the second blue mana source needed for Sower of temptation to steal the big creature.
    4. You still lose.

    The new way to handle this would be something like:

    1. Your opponent drops a big guy you can't race (tombstalker, goyf, dreadnought etc.)
    2. You play Pilgrim's Eye, drop a land, and use the Eye for chump blocking or you lose.
    3. You play Sower of temptation to steal the big creature.
    4. You win.
    Threads of Disloyalty: Take control of target Tarmogoyf. Smother: Destroy target Tarmogoyf. Spellsnare: Counter target Tarmogoyf. Spell Pierce: Counter target non-Tarmogoyf spell.

  16. #56

    Re: [Deck] Faerie Stompy

    We need to make the deck more solid. Filling it out with crappy cards that do nothing if they are drawn by the 3rd turn onwards is not the way to go. The thopter is a good idea but definitely not worth it (unless someone proves me wrong with testing). The deck relies on speed, and definitely investing 3 mana on a 1/1 flyer is not what I call seizing your mana. The same goes for Esperzoa. Once I play a creature I want to protect it against removal and equip it asap to win the game. I do not want to keep bouncing cards (and don't tell me you are bouncing a chrome mox or something, because that means you have yet another extra DEAD card in your hand, and we are not very high on Card Advantage here).

    Regarding the Zoo matchup. Mulldrifters are dead cards there. That is why I did not play them in the GP and I did quite well. You can't imagine how good Cloud of Faeries are in accelerating your piece of equipment one turn earlier or even to enable chalice for 2 in the 2nd turn, which was their main purpose when they were originally added. And definitely Misdirection and such works better than passive cards like Propaganda. I want my cards to win games, not to wander around the battlefield slowing down my opponent. The same goes for Relic of Progenitus. If I cast Trinket Mage I will go straight for Chalice/EE/Sigil. Would you waste your tutoring on Relic of Progenitus? If you do there is something you have made wrong by allowing the game to go to the long-term, where Zoo creatures are just bigger (Tarmogoyf/Knight of the Reliquary) and probably you are left out with no equipment (the dreaded Qasali Pridemage I do not think are that match-deciding by themselves).

    Maybe my deck is less resilient, but I do not think the current Legacy metagame allows the use of Mulldrifter, and you definitely can't give up the acceleration provided by Cloud of Faeries. By the way, it also cycles. And pitches to FoW. And to Chrome Mox. If I had had the time I would have probably tested Thirst for Knowledge back in the deck, but I felt Mulldrifter is just not the right call nowadays. And even TfK might be too slowish. I wanted to have as many good cards in my starting seven as possible, and I was never happy to see hands where my plan was to cast a turn2 draw spell and hope for the nuts to come in. I'd rather see the faeries straight there and say 'keep' :)

  17. #57
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    Re: [Deck] Faerie Stompy

    But you need your draw. There are basically two cards that can fill in that role for this deck: Thirst for Knowledge and Mulldrifter. As I see myself often with equipment but without creatures, I opt for Mulldrifter. Cloud of Faeries does something completely else: accelerate. Accelerate on colorless mana. I'm very unimpressed by Cloud of Faeries. I don't think Mulldrifter is the weakest card in the deck. It certainly isn't up for debate in my opinion. The weakest card in my current deck is Pestermite. I woul love to change that card. But I'm actually looking for something stronger, not weaker, although Cloud of Faeries may be an okay substitute, it's not exactly what I'm looking for. If they'd ever print a 3/3 Flying with no drawback it would instantly fill the slot.
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  18. #58

    Re: [Deck] Faerie Stompy

    But you need your draw. There are basically two cards that can fill in that role for this deck: Thirst for Knowledge and Mulldrifter. As I see myself often with equipment but without creatures, I opt for Mulldrifter.
    My question is: how badly do we need that draw effect? Once you test the deck without TfK or Mulldrifter you'll come to realise it's not these spells which make the deck good, but rather the reason why it's so slow sometimes.

    Cloud of Faeries does something completely else: accelerate. Accelerate on colorless mana.
    I wonder why I am SO happy about gaining colorless mana using this deck. Maybe because of the 4 chalice maindeck? Or maybe because of the 7 equipment pieces? Oh, maybe it has to do with the fact that all the cards cost a single coloured mana. And Cloud of Faeries stay in play! I have done so many sick plays with it I am just not giving them up. Cloud of Faeries is the glue that binds the deck together.

    I'm very unimpressed by Cloud of Faeries. I don't think Mulldrifter is the weakest card in the deck. It certainly isn't up for debate in my opinion. The weakest card in my current deck is Pestermite. I woul love to change that card. But I'm actually looking for something stronger, not weaker, although Cloud of Faeries may be an okay substitute, it's not exactly what I'm looking for.
    Pestermite is so good after you test it heavily. At first it seems clumsy and people who hasn't played Faerie Stompy enough or just look at the decklist wonder why a card that hasn't seen play in extended/standard Faeries list deserve a spot in Legacy. I would never play less than 3 maindeck, which I think is the right number. It has definitely won me some games tapping out some lands on the critic turn not to speak of tapping Tarmogoyfs all day long. Also, it is a good answer versus Maze of Ith (the only one if you went t1 chalice for 1 blindly and your opp is playing lands.dec)

    If they'd ever print a 3/3 Flying with no drawback it would instantly fill the slot
    The cost would have to be 2U for it to be playable, as 1UU would be bad for the deck. You can try Cloud Elemental or Rishadan Airship, but they have proved not to be good enough.

  19. #59

    Re: [Deck] Faerie Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by Djinn View Post
    The thopter is a good idea but definitely not worth it ... The deck relies on speed, and definitely investing 3 mana on a 1/1 flyer is not what I call seizing your mana.
    The thopter is a good idea, but then again it isn't? I don't understand what exactly you're trying to say there. You invest 3 mana on a 1/1 flyer AND an Island, speaking of seizing your mana and relying on speed...
    Threads of Disloyalty: Take control of target Tarmogoyf. Smother: Destroy target Tarmogoyf. Spellsnare: Counter target Tarmogoyf. Spell Pierce: Counter target non-Tarmogoyf spell.

  20. #60
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    Re: [Deck] Faerie Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by Djinn View Post
    My question is: how badly do we need that draw effect? Once you test the deck without TfK or Mulldrifter you'll come to realise it's not these spells which make the deck good, but rather the reason why it's so slow sometimes.
    If your only play is Mulldrifter you should have mulled. Later, it's a fantastic topdeck. Cloud of Faeries isn't.
    Quote Originally Posted by Djinn View Post
    Maybe because of the 4 chalice maindeck? Or maybe because of the 7 equipment pieces?
    Way to sound arrogant, good job on that one. Anyhoo, I know there are alot of colorless spells in the deck, I've played it quite a bit myself. The problem I generally have isn't the amount of colorless mana I have. Generally I lack blue mana. No statistics about the amount of colorless spells can change that problem. Sower of Temptation needs double blue and I've had problem casting it when it was my only out.
    Quote Originally Posted by Djinn View Post
    Pestermite is so good after you test it heavily.
    I've never played a version without Pestermite. And still I say it's the weakest card. I'm not so concerned about Maze of Ith by the way.
    Quote Originally Posted by Djinn View Post
    The cost would have to be 2U for it to be playable.
    That's exactly what I said.

    I understand Cloud of Faeries accelerates, but I haven't had too many situations where I needed more acceleration. I did encounter situations where I needed a big beater or a second blue mana. I must admit I like Cloud of Faeries potential of playing it and equipping it the same turn, but it stops there. Generally a terrible topdeck.
    If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, it's probably delicious.
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