Budget deck using CounterTop engine

[(nameless one)]

My buddy is trying to get into Legacy.

I was surprise that someone gave him a playset of both Counterbalance, Sensei's Divining Top and Standstill. But other than that, he has chaff cards (No duals, No Onslaught Fetches, No Goyfs). He does have a total of 4 Zendikar blue fetches (2 U/R and 2 U/G). I currently gave him my playset of Brainstorm as the only blue deck I have is Merfolk and Merfolks dont need Brainstorms. His cousing has a playset of Force of Wills that he is getting (his cousing stopped playing around that time).

Is it possible to make a budget deck with CounterTop engine with those cards? I was thinking of U/G Madness CounterTop. Would that work?

[Gui]

If he's going budget, why not going a MUC with CB+Top, maybe Back to Basics... There are lots of things you can do with a MUC... I'm sure it's more budget then finding duals (although duals will be hell more useful latter)

[brattin]

My current version of landstill runs countertop. Obviously landstill requires a lot of other good cards: most importantly, engineered explosives and mishra's factory. Normally you want some number of finishers (decree of justice, elspeth, eternal dragon) and more sweepers (wrath, damnation, nev's disk), and you need some spot removal (swords, path, edict).

Maybe you could get it to work in mono blue, some kind of approximation between MUC and landstill, with new jace and a morphling or something. I run UW, with wraths and elspeths. UB would certainly work, depending on what you have. I think you would probably want at least one ravnica dual, but I've seen heavy white landstill lists running very few tundras, and lots of basics.

My professional opinion is that counter top is incredibly strong, though slow, and that it works well with standstills. Whether you can run it or not is highly meta dependent. If you want to run a deck with a sketchy mana base, that's also meta dependent. If you want to run a deck with suboptimal creature choices, that's meta dependent. Practically no one in my meta has tarmogoyfs, so running werebear and nimble mongoose and wild mongrel and quirion dryad is probably fine, but if you're playing a deck with no tarmogoyfs against a bunch of tarmogoyfs, I think removal is a higher priority.

EDIT: I think madness is playable in a not-quite-developed meta, but the manabase will be a little sketchy. I don't think countertop really fits in with madness's game plan, but I don't think it's a terrible idea either. I feel like madness decks are trying to maximize the number of cards with madness and the number of discard outlets, and countertop doesn't provide either. Give me a proposed list, and I'll tell you whether I think countertop has a home in it.

[caenel]

Maybe you should give the Zur thread in Established Decks a view. I'm figuring that the only more expensive cards in that deck are the Dark Confidants. It's basically a UWb control deck that finishes with Zur attacking with Steel of the Godhead and Pemmin's Aura attached.

Granted, it's not a tier 1 deck, but it is fun as hell to play, potent and totally unexpected by opponents. The main rares in there are Zur, Energy Field, Wheel of Sun and Moon,... all not that expensive, I'm guessing.

This list from Phoenix Ignition looks like a blast to play (I'm testing it atm too :-) ):

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...l=1#post434369

[kicks_422]

Mono-Blue CounterTop Faeries. Spellstutter Sprite, Scion of Oona, Vendillion Clique, etc. are all pretty easy to get now. You can even drop the Scions if your friend can get Jittes.

[Clark Kant]

Why not just have him build Merfolk. Unless you don't want to play a Merfolk mirror.

Fairies I guess wouldn't be bad either.

[grahf]

Mono-Blue CounterTop Faeries. Spellstutter Sprite, Scion of Oona, Vendillion Clique, etc. are all pretty easy to get now. You can even drop the Scions if your friend can get Jittes.

Amen.

This has good potential to be a respectable tier 2 deck, and a good intro to a Legacy-style aggro-control deck. If your friend was a Standard player, he may already have some of the Faeries too.

Don't forget Cloud of Faeries and Sower. There's a Faeries thread in Established with some good ideas in the earlier pages, although the UBr tempo direction the thread has gone in of late would be less useful for a budget player (lot more money cards).

If you play Standstills in there, Vial would be worth looking at. Some amount of Echoing Truth, too, to borrow a Merfolk tech. Most of the good Faeries are also Wizards with strong CiP abilities and thus can be profitably bounced with Riptide Lab.

I wouldn't expect such a deck to win huge tournaments, but with countertop, force, and daze, it should stand a fighting chance against almost anything.

[Gui]

Amen.

This has good potential to be a respectable tier 2 deck, and a good intro to a Legacy-style aggro-control deck. If your friend was a Standard player, he may already have some of the Faeries too.

Don't forget Cloud of Faeries and Sower. There's a Faeries thread in Established with some good ideas in the earlier pages, although the UBr tempo direction the thread has gone in of late would be less useful for a budget player (lot more money cards).

If you play Standstills in there, Vial would be worth looking at. Some amount of Echoing Truth, too, to borrow a Merfolk tech. Most of the good Faeries are also Wizards with strong CiP abilities and thus can be profitably bounced with Riptide Lab.

I wouldn't expect such a deck to win huge tournaments, but with countertop, force, and daze, it should stand a fighting chance against almost anything.

Yeah, we could scratch a list from this

I'd say Standstill + Vial, Counterbalance + Top, and Faeries would make a strong Aggro-control deck if you use FoWs and Dazes
Maybe +4 Wastelands would be great too ^^

[Philipp2293]

If you run Standstill in a Faerie build, I'd put Mutavault in it, if it's in his budget range.

[Gui]

If you run Standstill in a Faerie build, I'd put Mutavault in it, if it's in his budget range.

He can use a few Faerie Conclave instead... like, 2-of, to complement the vial+SS strategy...

[(nameless one)]

So mono-blue faerie deck?

I remember seeing NinjaFaerieStill deck somewhere in the new development section. I will try to look for it.

[arebennian]

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=172132

[(nameless one)]

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=172132

Sad :(

FaerieNinjaStill does not and cannot run CounterTop. The creature list is pretty synergistic and the support is good enough. The deck itself is Aggro-Control leaning on aggro and I cant run CounterTop on that.

Although, I will work on something else.

[godryk]

Rafael Truchado is a well known player from Madrid that has played a lot of Monoblue decks with certain success. For example you have almost monoblue CB:
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=29996

You have to replace Goyfs (duh!) for anything else (Calcite Snapper?).

Or he can always try to borrow some Dreadnoughts and ply MonoU Dreadstill.

[(nameless one)]

Rafael Truchado is a well known player from Madrid that has played a lot of Monoblue decks with certain success. For example you have almost monoblue CB:
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=29996

You have to replace Goyfs (duh!) for anything else (Calcite Snapper?).

Or he can always try to borrow some Dreadnoughts and ply MonoU Dreadstill.

Sweet. Since Sower of Temptations and Vendillion Cliques are Faeries, maybe replace them with Spellstutters? But that would be leaning on control instead... I'll see what I can do for him

[grahf]

Truth be told, putting Vial, Wasteland, and Mutavault into a budget deck makes it suddenly much less budget.
4x Vial: $45
4x Waste: $80
4x Muta: $40

The Vials are not that necessary really, since most of the faeries already have flash. Also, I think FaerieNinjaStill is a pretty janky deck, that I would only play at the kitchen table. Whereas monoblue countertop faeries actually has some potential.

Or he can always try to borrow some Dreadnoughts and ply MonoU Dreadstill.

Hadn't thought of this, but it's a good idea. With 4 Trinket Mages you wouldn't necessarily need 4 Dreadnoughts, making the cost for a starting player comparable to the above.

In the Dreadstill thread a few pages pack, there was some discussion about a monoblue list, which made a good point: CounterTop loses a good bit of its power without fetchlands, to see a new top 3 cards. So even in a monoblue list, put the fetches in there. That, or sub out Brainstorm for Ponder.

Off the top of my head, here's budget-ish Mono-U CounterTop Faeries:

// 12 creatures
4 Spellstutter Sprite
4 Scion of Oona
2 Vendillion Clique
2 Sower of Temptation

// 13 counters
4 Counterbalance
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
2 Spell Snare

// 11 draw
4 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Ponder
4 Standstill / Ancestral Vision

// 5 removal-ish
3 Echoing truth
2 Powder Keg

// 19 land
2 Faerie Conclave
2 Riptide Lab
4 Wasteland (Seems optional)
11 Island

Some numbers could be tinkered with. Faerie Conclave seems just as good as Mutavault, and without more of a mana-denial plan to back it up, Wasteland seems optional. Vial didn't find its way in there, I don't think it's as needed as in Merfolk; it could help, but what to take out? Powder Keg is about the only way monoblue could permanently deal with scary things like Goyf, and it will miss your counterbalances and most of your creatures.

Black or green would be the most likely splashes to think about. Black brings better removal (I'd play Diabolic Edict), Bitterblossom, which makes Spellstutter much better, and also Tombstalker, which is not a Faerie, but a much needed big beater. With green... Goyfs and Grips of course. With the duals and fetches for the green splash, you could begin to graduate to a "real" CounterTop deck, seems like a good upgrade path.

[Nidd]

I had a list of a very odd-looking not so mono blue Mono Blue Control... And from what I recall it's fairly cheap.

I'll see if I can find it. if I do, I update this post.

€:

Okay, I found the list. It doesn't use the CounterTop engine, but it uses SDT and working CB in there shouldn't be too hard. Here's the list:

1 Academy Ruins
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Flooded Strand
2 Mountain
2 Plains
11 Island

1 Meloku the Clouded Mirror
1 Oona, Queen of the Fae
1 Decree of Justice

2 Thopter Foundry
2 Sword of the Meek

2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

3 Swords to Plowshares
3 Firespout
3 Engineered Explosives

1 Vedalken Shackles

4 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Thirst for Knowledge
3 Ancestral Vision

3 Back to Basics

4 Force of Will

[kicks_422]

You could also fit in Tezzeret there to grab the Thopter-Sword pieces.

[JACO]

Blue White Landstill, and instead of Dreadnought pieces he could use a couple of Trinket Mages, a single Tezzeret, and play some of the Thopter-Foundry combo which would give him a great end game. That would utilize the cards he has, and if can acquire Tundras by purchase or trade he would probably be in good shape.