yes, why on earth do you play eternal dragon ?
As was already said, watch out your mana curve when you play CB...
Forgive my bad English...
actually eternal dragon was in my list becuse landstill has been geting more popular in my meta
is there a particular reason why this deck plays almost no 3cc cards, even though it is playing Counter-Top in it?
I can understand if it is because there are not many cards at 3cc that are "good enough" to be used (TfK and Shackles excluded), because the deck is a thopter foundry deck, but if we were to instead think of the deck as a counterbalance deck with thopter foundry / sword of meek as a wincon (possibly using Tezzeret if you have him in your list), wouldn't that make the deck more resilient to certain decks that are played more, suck as other counterbalance decks, and a majority of the aggro decks, which i feel like to have their curve top at around 3-4 to stop mana issues.
also, what is the reason there are no wraths or evacuations (one of my favorite cards) in the lists i have seen on here? i could see no wraths being used because it is mainly a blue deck but, with the chrome moxes, we should be able to get to 5 for evacuation, and i feel like evacuation could be a useful card because i do not really think it is played too much in legacy, though it could just be because i haven't gone to a legacy tourney, just read up on the decks as of now (hoping to start going this summer)
the deck gets much more resiliant when people play oblivion ring.the reason for know wrath effects is well they are slow and by the time you are at 4 mana you are almost dead even whit the chrom mox excel
what do you mean by "the deck gets much more resiliant when people play oblivion ring"?
do you mean if we play it, or if they are playing it? because the wording feels a little off...
If it is ran in this deck... the deck is more resilliant. The deck is then capable of solving problematic cards through a means other than bounce.
Not playing Stoneforge Mystic and Umezawa's Jitte as a tutor for Sword of the Meek and an alternate win condition is a sin in this deck, IMO, multiple Swords of the Meek is pointless when you never have to worry about it getting countered in the first place.
Originally Posted by wastedlife
This may be a good idea. I'll try it in the future.
@ Oblivion Ring: I never had the chance to test it in this deck, but I wanted to include 1 from when I built my first list. It can solve all types of problems and it's a tutorable 3CC for CB.
Now I'm testing a slightly different version of the deck: it has Counterspell, Spell Snare and Mishra's Factories. The main difference is that I also included Polymorph and Emrakul..
Team Stimato
He told you a foil from Time Spiral was Summer?
This man must be a Jedi.
I've actually Been testing out this Particular deck for Quite some time now(e.g. 4/5 months), i originnally started with a heavy Control vesrion of Counter-top but Quickly noticed that the power level of Foundry-Sword in extended was just Broken, anyways,
Oblivion Ring has been in my list since almost the inception and has worked Quite well at mitigating faster decks and Providing additional utility when needed.
I have found that As far as 3cc spells go, some of your bests bets are Ashnods Alter, Oblivion Ring and Back to Basics/Crucible of Worlds. Keeping in mind that these spells are also Tutorable with E. Tutor.(read Counter-top Synergy)
Ashnods Alter Fills the role of 3cc spell and Combo win well enough in my build. Thoughts?
As for the possible inclusions of the Mystic and the Jitte package, i suppose the same counterpoint could be uses against this as Bobby Mascara, the possible card advantage seems underwhelming when the opponent likely has kill spells inhand, for your mystic. I'd rather have a "real" tutor up or a piece of the Combo 99% of the time.
I haven't tried to include tezzeret in my Build but it is an idea i've been toying with.
I'll see if i cant post up My decklist soon Along with some Matchup analisis, For my local meta Which is Quite poor over all -No bant, Pox, Drege, Merfolk, and Survival-
Also, as far as graveyard hate goes, the leyline is not the "Worst" one in my opinion, The Possible Turn Zero Leyline is Often Killed by my MD O. Ring.
The biggest problem is Extripate! B/c unless your floating a 1cc spell on top of your library You are Screwed!
All other Graveyard hate can wait till you have the proper removal or in the case of The Crypt/relic, Multiple Artifacts in play.(op: activate Crypt/relic in Responce to the swords trigger, Us: sac a artifact in play to keep our sword alive)
As Promised here’s a Decklist:
Thopter-top By Whitewolf
//Lands-22
2 Tundra
1 Tropical Island
4 Plains
4 Island
1 Forest
4 Flooded Strand
3 Misty Rainforest
2 Celestial Colonnade
1 Academy Ruins
//Combo Package
2 Thopter Foundry
2 Sword of the Meek
1 Ashnod’s Altar
//Draw/Library Manipulation/Tutor
4 Brainstorm
1 Standstill
4 Sensei’s Divining Top
1 Ponder
4 Enlightened Tutor
//Control and Utility
4 Force of Will
4 Counterspell
3 Counterbalance
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Path to Exile
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Back to Basics
1 Engineered Explosives
Now, Before I get to The Card Choices, I need to say a couple things, Read Ahead for those uninterested…
I started playing in the legacy format around a year ago, testing the traditional UW landstill build. The deck felt Slow and ponderous in the face of most Aggro/combo Strategies at the time. Since then I have been a major fan of Board control, But dismayed at the actual results in testing such builds. Merfolk, Zoo, Ant, Thresh, all are well equipped to deal with the slow start of a Traditional Control Build. Enter Counter-top/Foundry-Sword. The inclusion of Counter-top in any Deck means in terms of awesomeness a solid Chuck Norris rating. This however, meant the loss of Sweepers (e.g. Nev’s Disc and the like). Foundry-Sword takes the place of the “finisher”. Being able to Survive the Swords/wraths?/Explosives of the format is almost the Holy Grail of a Control deck. Both in one deck means Far more access to large amounts of control than one person wielding 75 anime-sleeved cards should have.
What Eventually resulted was the Above list. I’ve tested the deck numerous times against the archetypes of the format and the results while not spectacular are promising. Please note that I’m not in any position to say that my build is the definitive build, my metagame is the Urborg of all metagames, nor am I anywhere near good enough to be authoritative on card selection but please bear with me.
First lets Establish the Auto includes.
3/2 Split on Foundry/sword or a 3/1 split favoring Foundry,
-Do I really need to explain Why you should play with at least four pieces of this degenerate combo favoring U *cough*Forceofwill*cough*
8xCounterspells 4 of which should be Force of will
- Considering that your playing with Counter-top you need additional ways to protect your board position as well as your win. Um also…it’s rumored that at one point Chuck Norris was designing cards for WotC but due to Complications involving several Deaths in the FFL was kicked off the team, luckily for us they did Print one of the cards he designed, I’ll give you one Guess which one it was.
4xBrainstorm/5+ fetches
- Being able to find any card in your deck and your momma’s deck isn’t broken at all…
3-4 Counterbalance/ 4xSensei’s Divining Top
- Chuck Norris Orders you to play these cards!
4xSwords to Plowshares
- It would be easier to compile a list of what this doesn’t kill, Run 4 minimum!!!
Now to spark some Debate.
4xE. Tutors
-if I could Run 12 of these I would! E. Tutor is immensely synergistic with Counterbalance, that being said I don’t want to include cards like Intuition/Gifts because they force me to run “bad” cards like Argivian Find which in turn Clog up my Deck and Take slots from Control Cards.
1xAcademy Ruins
-I’m not sold on this myself. I’ve literally never had to Activate this more than a few times in all of my testing. Engineered Explosives is Relatively new and might change that but If the opponent has the kill for my combo/control pieces then usually I have to scoop soon after.
2xPath to Exile
-Killing Critters is a must, in my meta it’s the thing to do behind scooping to Ant. Not that I scoop to Ant…Anyways, between Zoo & Merfolk Critters are everywhere(I’m looking at you wake thrasher/Tarm), So you better Bring Some Raid or this if you don’t want to scoop.
1xOblivion Ring
-Utility is Good and needed in this deck, and I hear that countering 3 drops is nifty.
1xPonder
-This is more like a place holder in my build, I’ve never been sad to draw it in any of my test games. This could easily be something Else however.
1xBack to Basics
-I keep on Switching this with Propaganda/Crucible. Not settled on it but having game against lands/aggroloam is important these days. Also in my Meta, it’s like a free win against Dualland heavy decks, AKA Survival Scoops!
1xStandStill
-This Card Reads 1U, Sorcery, Draw three Cards on your opponents turn 99.9% of the time. The other .01% It Reads Silence for a load of Turns. That Said, Its one of the few card Advantage engines in the deck. This, E.E.+Academy Ruins, and Top+CB.
1xEngineered Explosives(E.E.)
-A recent Addition to the Deck, I have high hopes for this little bugger. I don’t like however that this demands more colors in this deck. Yeah I run Fetches/Duals, Whateva, but more colors means less of my precious man lands! Speaking of Which.
2 Celestial Colonnade
-Having an Additional Finisher is De facto Important! On the other hand I have no idea What De facto means so…
And some General Stuff.
Spash of Green?
-allows Krosan Grips SB, Plays nice W/E.E., & Cuz I don’t Have Polluted Deltas
61 cards?
-Someone once said that playing Blue in An eternal Format is like Playing a 40 card deck, 1 card difference is not that big of a deal guys.
High Basic Land Count?
-ppl Like Blowing Up my Lands, But at least I can Fight the Dust Bowls & Wastlands of the World if I play with my Unhinged Basics!
Wow that’s a ton of Stuff, Feel free to Critique, or insult my intelligence…I just Want this deck to do well.
IMO, not relying on Thopter/Sword as your only wincon is crucial for the deck's success, I've been experimenting with both Stoneforge Mystic and Spellstutter Sprite in the deck and I've found just being able to beat down with Jitte while countering spells and tutoring for the combo (otherwise) is incredibly fucking strong. You get to slip in and out of being control, combo-control and aggro-control almost effortlessly, and that flexibility just really causes people to misplay left and right. Playing a shitty version of Painter/Stone is not the way to go, IMO.
jace2.0.....try it out people i hear he's pretty good.
why are you running two sword of the meeks,the last time i checked they were the worst part of the combo.that slot would probably be better off if it became another thopter foundry.
also why is the altar there.the only reason i can see for running the card md is if ther is a lot of reanimater in your meta .but in all other cases alter should be a sidboard card
shouldn't the colonaides becume factoys .i mean they just seem beter they activate sooner and it just seems like overall mishra is a beter card
Last edited by obituary 95; 05-05-2010 at 11:52 PM.
what do you guys think about having humility in the maindeck as both a control-esque card that only minimally affects us, and so we can use the enlightened tutors in combination with counterbalances to counter tendrils and other important 4 mana cards found in legacy?
i was playing humility md for a little while but i think ensnaring bridge is better unless you play a list with a lot of card draw
what is the worst match ups for this deck?
the only matchups i have found is
rdw
dredge
43 lands
please critique this list it has been performing well in my playtesting
6 Island
3 Plains
1 Academy Ruins
1 Misty Rainforest
4 Tundra
4 Flooded Strand
4 Mishra's Factory
// Spells
1 Engineered Explosives
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
3 Oblivion Ring
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Enlightened Tutor
4 Brainstorm
4 Counterbalance
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Sword of the Meek
3 Thopter Foundry
1 Ensnaring Bridge
// Sideboard
SB: 3 Path to Exile
SB: 1 Circle of Protection: Red
SB: 3 Aura of Silence
SB: 1 Tsabo's Web
SB: 1 Relic of Progenitus
SB: 3 Tormod's Crypt
the sideboard needs some help ,but the main deck has been doing well
do you feel that you are seeing enough of the sword of the meek with only 1 in the deck through the use of the brainstorms and tutors?
also, how has the ensnaring bridge been doing for you? how many cards do you usually have in your hand for it? you think it would be better off as a humility? i think humility would be a little better because it removes abilities from creatures, screwing over qasali pridemage and other anoying creatures??
also, how are the O-rings working out??
EDIT: also, how are the factories working out? do you think they would be better as blinkmoth nexus's so you can sac to make a token if needed??
i have had no problume finding sword of the meek
actually when i play the brige i usually end up with 1 card in hand
the o rings are good but im thinking about cutting 1 or 2 of them. i mean they are so slow that they are a dead draw against agro. and they usually get boarded out for pte.im actually starting to wonder if it is not better to not play any 3 drops at all and if it would be better if we would just play more 1s and 2s . i mean sure we get less reselientcy to korosan grip but i think the speed we would pick up might be invaluable . if we decided to do that the ENSNRING BRIGE should still stay . its effect is amazing against folk and aganst some versions of gobos
the factories are better than the nexus since they are 2/2s compared to the nexus puny statue
what about mutavaults then?
they are basically the same, but against tribal decks, they become better...
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