[Deck] CounterTop Thopter

[Salogy]

Here is a list that has gone 3-1 in a Daily Event on MTGO. The pilot is Fiatlux running a UW version with a big enlightened tutor toolbox. The enlightened tutors help find answers in conjunction with maximizing Counterbalance. The artifact lands are used with the Thopter Foundry if needed and can be recurred with Crucible of Worlds. Moat + Humility can be put down early with the Chrome Mox and with both out, shuts down creature based decks. The list is very much a walker/landstill deck with thopters.

// 21 Lands
1 Academy Ruins
1 Ancient Den
4 Flooded Strand
4 Island
3 Mishra's Factory
2 Plains
1 Seat of the Synod
4 Tundra
1 Wasteland

// 40 Other Spells
1 Back to Basics
4 Brainstorm
2 Chrome Mox
3 Counterbalance
4 Counterspell
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
3 Enlightened Tutor
4 Force of Will
1 Humility
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Moat
1 Mox Diamond
1 Pithing Needle
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Standstill
1 Sword of the Meek
1 Tezzeret the Seeker
2 Thirst for Knowledge
2 Thopter Foundry
2 Wrath of God

// Sideboard
SB: 1 A?ther Spellbomb
SB: 1 Arcane Laboratory
SB: 1 Dispeller's Capsule
SB: 1 Humility
SB: 1 Karmic Justice
SB: 2 Kor Firewalker
SB: 1 Mindbreak Trap
SB: 1 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Porphyry Nodes
SB: 1 Ravenous Trap
SB: 1 Relic of Progenitus
SB: 2 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 Wing Shards

[obituary 95]

THE deck that won that placed the mtgo event is horrible it doesnt even play swords to plowshares

[Koby]

And yet, it has a winning record. Which goes to show for something.

I think the toolbox approach is a bit haphazard, since the singletons won't be good topdecks in random spots. A better approach might be to stream line the singletons into functional blocks, while still retaining the E.Tutor engine. 1x Standstill can't be that useful IMO.

[boclfon479]

i was thinking about the toolbox direction, and i had an idea.

what if you guys used golden wish and sideboarded the toolbox cards, along with 1 sword and thopter foundry?

it would help you get the toolbox cards when you need them, and it would also make the deck a little more resilient to extirpate and other global removal spells. the only downside is that it costs 3WW and is a sorcery, but it could be fairly invaluable if it works out...

[obituary 95]

i was thinking about the toolbox direction, and i had an idea.

what if you guys used golden wish and sideboarded the toolbox cards, along with 1 sword and thopter foundry?

it would help you get the toolbox cards when you need them, and it would also make the deck a little more resilient to extirpate and other global removal spells. the only downside is that it costs 3WW and is a sorcery, but it could be fairly invaluable if it works out...

golden wish coast five mana i would rather just play cunning wish and get enlighened tutors out of the bord ,but i think that is a bad idea the format is just to fast to allow you to play such sinnanagens

[boclfon479]

golden wish coast five mana i would rather just play cunning wish and get enlighened tutors out of the bord ,but i think that is a bad idea the format is just to fast to allow you to play such sinnanagens

ok. I was just looking at it as a way to get around having your combo extirpated and being unable to win.

[boclfon479]

it seems like none of these decks are playing TfK. is there a reason for it, or is it just too slow?

I have 3 in my deck atm, should i remove them and the engineered explosives for 2 lands and a 2 jace M/tezz?

[FiatLux]

That list of mine is an older version. I change it frequently. I don't run Back to Basics anymore, and it hasn't helped me much. Someone mentioned the singleton standstill being a bit useless. I agree. I think I'll buy a 4th enlightened tutor for the list to replace.

The Kor Firewalkers are gone. I'd prob use warmth or circle of protection which can be tutored. Firewalkers are only marginally better vs online burn decks that run x4 Goblin Guides and x4 Keldon Marauders, but I already run Moat and Humility anyway.

Toolbox builds can be slow, but it's just a personal preference of my own for decks that can respond strongly to a wide variety of threats, even if they run slower. I don't necessarily think they're better, it's just more entertaining for me.

[FiatLux]

it seems like none of these decks are playing TfK. is there a reason for it, or is it just too slow?

I have 3 in my deck atm, should i remove them and the engineered explosives for 2 lands and a 2 jace M/tezz?

I do use Thirst for Knowledge in that particular list, but in general, it's too slow unless you're running multiple moxen. I don't think I even run enough to justify it really. I think it's a lot stronger in vintage where you have a dozen or more artifacts to pitch, and very quick artifact mana.

I never tried E.Explosives in that particular list. I had another that didn't run moxen, and is blue/black/white that does run EE, but I can't run EE in that particular list because it only has 2 colors. Besides that, I usually don't have an empty board (my counterbalance and thopter foundry at 2 CMC, moxen at 0 CMC, pithing needle, nodes, divining top at 1 CMC) as the opponent. For creatures, wrath, humility, moat, does fine. Along with Nodes in SB to tutor for. For other things... I guess I'd just have to rely on pithing needles and counters.

Suggestions are welcome though.

[menace13]

I prefer Sphere of Law as long as the deck is casting Moats and Humility, it trumps Warmth when facing Goblins(except Piley) or Creatures already on Board(think Lavamancer) also can not be Needled as CoP can. I think that Standstill as a singelton is there just for your entertainment solely.

Not that TFK isn't good, take Extended for example where it sees plenty play outside Vintage, but the use of TFK is advantageous when there are multiple fast mana artifacts and/or redundant copies of pieces(Chalice,Shackle,EE,Staxx parts) which are going to be recurred(Welder,Ruins) anyway if needed. FoF or Vision may be better if you have not tried it already.

[FiatLux]

Sphere of Law is a great idea, and a good foil to Sulfuric Vortex/Flames of the Bloodhand.

[obituary 95]

Suggestions are welcome though.[/QUOTE]

ok. I was just looking at it as a way to get around having your combo extirpated and being unable to win.

honestly in the match ups that run extirpate are usually control decks which we already have a 50/50 match up against besides its not like the combo is our only win condition .i mean in most lists that have done well at least on deck check.net have eitheir run man lands or other creatures

[boclfon479]

Suggestions are welcome though.

honestly in the match ups that run extirpate are usually control decks which we already have a 50/50 match up against besides its not like the combo is our only win condition .i mean in most lists that have done well at least on deck check.net have eitheir run man lands or other creatures[/QUOTE]

here is a copy of the list I am currently testing:

---------------------
Counter Thopter
---------------------

4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
4 Enlightened Tutor
4 Force of Will
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Thirst for Knowledge
4 Counterbalance
2 Oblivion Ring
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Sword of the Meek
3 Thopter Foundry
1 Academy Ruins
4 Flooded Strand
6 Island
1 Misty Rainforest
2 Plains
2 Scalding Tarn
1 Seat of the Synod
1 Tropical Island
4 Tundra

** ATM, I have no sideboard created, but the trop is in there in case i put a grip in the board.

what do you think i should change around to make it work better? as you can see, i have been adding concepts that seem good in theory, but the deck seems to have a mana problem...

EDIT: I forgot to mention, but i feel like the explosives is crippling the deck because if i use it on 0, 1, or 2 i will end up destroying my own permanents...

[obituary 95]

honestly in the match ups that run extirpate are usually control decks which we already have a 50/50 match up against besides its not like the combo is our only win condition .i mean in most lists that have done well at least on deck check.net have eitheir run man lands or other creatures

here is a copy of the list I am currently testing:

---------------------
Counter Thopter
---------------------

4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
4 Enlightened Tutor
4 Force of Will
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Thirst for Knowledge
4 Counterbalance
2 Oblivion Ring
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Sword of the Meek
3 Thopter Foundry
1 Academy Ruins
4 Flooded Strand
6 Island

1 Misty Rainforest
2 Plains
2 Scalding Tarn
1 Seat of the Synod
1 Tropical Island
4 Tundra

** ATM, I have no sideboard created, but the trop is in there in case i put a grip in the board.

what do you think i should change around to make it work better? as you can see, i have been adding concepts that seem good in theory, but the deck seems to have a mana problem...

EDIT: I forgot to mention, but i feel like the explosives is crippling the deck because if i use it on 0, 1, or 2 i will end up destroying my own permanents...[/QUOTE]

depending on your meta i would consider putting o ring to the board or maybe not running it at all the same goes for tfk..
i would also try to cut the artifact land and a few fetches for cards that produce mana

i do agre with you on the explosives ,i almost feel like the deck is useing ee as a crutch .i mean in all the time ive played the deck there has never been a specific instance that i actually wanted ee.even when i play against zoo it would usually go countersomething kill something else with stp and then just get down the soft lock.actually against dredge it is quite usefully but that match up is so bag g1 that unles we combo off we are going to loss any way

i would cut a sword of the meek but that is just my personal prefrence . i have also begain testing kitchen finks in the deck as another win con

[boclfon479]

what shold i replace the o-ring and TfK's with?

also, the 1 artifact land in the deck i like because i can use the enlightened tutor for it if i have an opening hand with a W and no U.
also, instead of the ee, what do you think about using humility in its place? it is able to hose aggro down while only minimally affecting us(only losing flying), but also, against ANT and other decks that rely on 4 cmc cards to win, you can enlightened for it onto the top to counter stuff w/ CB.

[SpeedOfDark]

Unfortunately I'm not familiar enough with the archetype to comment productively...

However I can give one invaluable piece of advice:

rename the deck to CounterThop :DDD

[BreathWeapon]

I doubt I'd run Glittering Wish over Enlightened Tutor, but a UGW Bant running both Stoneforge Mystic and Sword of the Meek in the MD with Glittering Wish in the MD and Thopter Foundry in the SB is kind of interesting, IMO the man plan is the only thing making Counter/Thopter viable over Painter/Stone.

[Whitewolf]

Has Anyone thought about Vendillion Clique As an Additional Control/clock card?
I've recently got some and i've been thinking about it.

Also i agree that Engineered explosives isn't as great as originally stated, it's to much of a precise kill card in most cases and it really only shines when killing tokens. But i'm more inclined towards moat than humility...thats just me tho.

And How bout ThopterTop for a name?

[boclfon479]

Has Anyone thought about Vendillion Clique As an Additional Control/clock card?
I've recently got some and i've been thinking about it.

Also i agree that Engineered explosives isn't as great as originally stated, it's to much of a precise kill card in most cases and it really only shines when killing tokens. But i'm more inclined towards moat than humility...thats just me tho.

And How bout ThopterTop for a name?

the reason i like humility more is because it completely levels the playing field for all creatures, giving us the advantage for out instant creature production. Also, and more importantly, it removes abilities on creatures that would otherwise hurt us a lot, like pridemage, Iona, Eldrazi, ect.

[obituary 95]

i like they idea of humility but have not tested it but i will test it more tonight