[Deck] Excalibur

[hungryLIKEALION]

I went 3-2 at a local event yesterday, going 3-0 against Dredge, Zoo, and UWb Landstill and then 0-2 again Eva Green and Aggro Loam, both of which are pretty bad matchups. I ran the exact same deck as my original build but -1 path +1 grip on the sb.

This deck needs to up its blue count, in my opinion. 19 (or 17 if you replace threads with a non-blue spell) is dangerously low, and I don't feel comfortable with that number. I've been running into positions a lot where I have no blue spell to pitch when I want to. I'm not sure how I'll rework it yet, and I don't have much time to test this week, but I'll be sure to update here when I figure it out.

Also, I'll be posting a short tournament report in my thread for those curious.

[Tao]

I have to go there again with that report. Against Aggro Loam and Eva Green Aether Vial is gold, because their Mana Denial becomes so much more inefficient for them.

[hungryLIKEALION]

I have to go there again with that report. Against Aggro Loam and Eva Green Aether Vial is gold, because their Mana Denial becomes so much more inefficient for them.

Are you joking? Vial is TERRIBLE against Eva Green. 21 Lands and 4 hierarchs versus 3-4 wastes and 0-4 sinkholes... The mana base holds up fine. Given how fast your hand empties against them, (which is pretty fucking fast) Vial does nothing, and you end up topdecking dead vials where Hierarch can come down and pick up a jitte/sofi and present a threat, or contribute exalted to your other creatures. Vial does literally nothing in this matchup.

Against Aggro Loam, vial is not going to help you either. Their creatures are larger than yours no matter what, so the only way to even the odds is to get your equipment online ASAP. This requires more mana. If you get stuck with a vial and 1-2 land you're fucked because no matter how many Stoneforge mystics and spellstutters you vial in, they're going to run you over with countryside crushers while you can't use your equipment.

Once again, Vial doesn't help this deck with any of its problems. To reiterate, the problems this deck faces are not:
-Mana Denial
-Countermagic

Instead, they are:
-Lots of opposing removal
-An abundance of large creatures
-Hand disruption

Vial does not belong in a deck with 12-14 creatures with no draw engine. If you think it does, you're deluding yourself and I can't help you.

[IsThisACatInAHat?]

On the subject, what about the Eva Green matchup was difficult? Were you just unable to find StP before TS finished you, hand disruption, or something else? On paper it looks like a wash so I just ignored it, but I wouldn't want to make that mistake in a tourney if it's not. It sounds like you're pinning their best cards against us as Hymn/ Thoughtseize/ Duress (if they have it), so that's what we should be saving counters for?

Also, I've been using Threads MD on and off but have found it's almost always either dead or just waiting for FoW to get pitched. I'm going to try Clique in its spot (still blue, same cost but faerie + useful ability + decent stats), so I'll report back on that. Meanwhile, I'm pretty much sold on the 3rd Faerie Macabre given the popularity of Reanimator (and now Aggro Loam) but if Crypt continues to be the disappointment it has been, I may go up to 4 Macabre and drop the Crypts altogether. I'll get back on that too, since only running targeted grave hate sounds like it could bite me in the ass at some point.

[hungryLIKEALION]

The eva green list my friend runs has no sinkholes and instead plays gatekeepers and maindeck grips. It's really the grips that put it over the edge, but their deck is really just the perfect storm against ours. They can take out our goyfs pretty easily leaving us with a bunch of 1/1s and 1/2s against 5/6s and 5/5 fliers among other creatures. We don't have enough removal to handle all their critters and it's hard to trade effectively without the equipment, and it can be difficult to get enough time to equip anything, and then when you finally do they have the grip ready. It's pretty miserable. It also didn't help today that he had turn 3/4 sylvan library both games and I didn't have the fow.

That being said, my winrate against him has gone up significantly since I switched from vial to hierarch. The matchup often comes down to topdecking, and even hierarch's ability to pick up a jitte and swing for 1 can be enough to win the attrition fight.

As for aggro loam, I lost both games because he went t1 bob, I plow it, he plays running 3 drops and chalice at 1 while I topdeck lots of 1 costs.

[klaus]

Isthatcatinthehat. +1 on that threads vs clique issue

[gustha]

Wow, I didn't know there were a topic on this deck I was testing (truth be told, don't have time to watch the source anymore, but meh).
My team and me started to test the deck in january, but didn't feel too confident with the green approach. tarmo is ofc a big green fatty, but was the only reason to play green, and it's just a stupid beast with nothing better to do than beating and beating. Qasali pridemage/trygon predator are ofc nice, but the deck can work even without disenchant effects, as my testings with UW tempo showed and so do the numbers of qasali i see in this thread's lists. So we dediced to shift to a straight UW version that's a bit different in the mechanics. Here it is:

4 Flooded Strand
2 Misty Rainforest
3 Island
1 Plains
4 Tundra
3 Mutavault
3 Wasteland

4 Aether Vial
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
3 Standstill
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
3 Spell Snare

4 Mother of Runes
4 Spellstutter Sprite
2 Vendilion Clique
3 Ninja of the Deep HOurs
3 Jotun Grunt
2 Stoneforge Mystics
----
3 Meddling Mage
3 Spell Pierce
3 Aura of Silence
4 Perimeter Captain
2 Pithing Needle

The deck basically thrashes aggrocontrol, has higly positive Mu vs any form of bant. Good MU vs combo and vs ichorid too. Can keep zoo and merfolk at bay and thus candidates to be a good tier in my opinion. Suffers a bit from black based decks (ofc), but if you manage to have a t1 mom and save the stutters for targeted discard and force for deed, then it's a little better (mom+stutters handles TS very well). A teammate is testing:
-1 tundra -2 island -1 fetch + 1 plains +2 volcanic +1 tropical
Sb: -4 perimeter captain +4 firespout (i'll probably follow this choice, without the MD tropical though)

Pros:
-mom offers better defense and protection from removal, being able to twist the deck from tempo to controllish; she nullifies attacks with equipped creatures, sb pithing needle/aura do the rest!
-positive combo and bant/bant prog MU
-diversified sb can handle lots of otherwise problematic MU's (aura of silence is good vs ant and vs control, needle is nuts vs control and ofc EE/deed/foundry/grindstone/whatever)
-more than 2 equips is winmore
-reinforced countersuite (the deck really suffers 2-drops as counterbalance without vial and bob; qasali is a lesser problem, but a good target nonetheless)
-good support of standstill
-lots of cards which serve multiple functions (mom, clique, stutter, jotun, ninja, SFM) = CA
-you laugh at goyfs
-lots of brutal card advantage engines, not merely library manipulation

Cons:
-weak against black based decks
-no brainstorm makes mulligans a little more frequent, but the list seems quite solid however.
-as every metagame deck, if you lose round1 at tournaments you'll encounter non-tier decks which rape you :)

I think this list has potential, and testings seem to prove it. Despite the UWG version it has more "intelligent" creatures than the stupid tarmogoyf, can play as landstill when facing the aggro MU and as merfolk when facing aggrocontrol/combo MU's, which is a versatility not to be understimated. Improves the mu vs aggroloam, combo and bant, the last two being the most powerful and played decks nowadays. Playable Mu vs zoo, which is another huge contender to recente top8's, not too bad vs ichorid and reanimator (though a version with cursecatchers instead of moms is better suited for a meta full of combo decks, or just use maindeck spell pierces).

[Eldamion]

Hi all,

I like the idea of the deck a lot, cause it will win some matchups very easy thanks to the equipments.
I had a first contact with the deck last weekend, were is was playing an adapted Aggro Bant list, where i was cutting Rafiq, Elspeth, one Daze and an one Jitte for 2 Mystics and both swords.

Unfortunately the tournaments didn't work well for me.

Back at home I found this thread an was very happy to see other people working on ideas like mine.

Here are my thoughts:
-I really missed card advantage, I see a little advantage in the sprites and maybe, if the equipment is running in the sword of FaI.
-my Manabase was horrible, so my own fault

Who came up with the idea to play the deck will Spellstutter Sprite, like the way the decks moves, but like to now what kind of thoughts are behind that idea?


After that tournament I had the following ideas, not all together in one list, but maybe :

- Standstill to create cardadvantage, great with vial, mystic and vialable equipment
- Thirst for knowledge, discard vial 2-4, dead cards in the lategame
- Riptide Laboratory, with Spellstuter Sprite and Vial? The Land can cast Vial turn one and with so many equipment in the deck, the colorless mana
will not hurt so much
- Thopter Foundry and Sword of the meek, Mystic searches for the sword, maybe Muddle the Mixture for the Foundry or the standstill
END

I will test the list from the first post with the vials, which I like a lot in my meta (Counterspells and Land destruction).
Will update you soon...

Eldamion

[luckme10]

[the problems this deck faces] are:
-Lots of opposing removal
-An abundance of large creatures
-Hand disruption

Have you tried working in the following? Plaxamanta acts as an additional Spellstutter Sprite to target those pesty removal spells.
If you're having trouble keeping beaters, I also reccomend adding something like Nulltread Gargantuan which doubles as evasion (if vialed depending on if you have it), and the ability to recur either Spellstutter Sprite or Plaxamanta.

They're also blue cards so it'll give you a better chance to pitch to FoW.

[jrsthethird]

Have you tried working in the following? Plaxamanta acts as an additional Spellstutter Sprite to target those pesty removal spells.
If you're having trouble keeping beaters, I also reccomend adding something like Nulltread Gargantuan which doubles as evasion (if vialed depending on if you have it), and the ability to recur either Spellstutter Sprite or Plaxamanta.

They're also blue cards so it'll give you a better chance to pitch to FoW.

Plaxmanta*

Nulltread sounds like a janky trick and might work with Vial but without it's just terrible.

I think you're trying to add a little too much to this. What you're suggesting would be great for a GU-type tempo deck, using both Vial and Hierarch, as well as Spellstutters, Vendilion Cliques, etc.

[GrooGrux]

I love this deck, saw your build Harry and the only change I made was that I play three spell pierce and one control magic in place of the the 2 ponders you ran and the two threads. Reasoning here is totally meta dependent. Probably wont run the control magic in an unknown meta. FUN FUN Deck!

[klaus]

So I've updated my version, based on the little testing I got done.

3 Stoneforge Mystic - - - - - against anything not running counterspells, I think 3 is the perfect number - I really don't want to have it in my opener most of the time.
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Spellstutter Sprite
4 Noble Hierarch
2 Vendillion Clique
2 Trygon Predator
1 Trinket Mage -------------------- that mini toolbox has proven to be not random at all - I think it also allows for a single Needle in the board instead of the 4th GY spell, while virtually keeping the GY count at 4. And yes, an equipped T. Mage is nothing to sneeze at - so I guess I'll keep him in.
---
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
---
4 Brainstorm
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Force of Will
4 Spell Pierce - - - - - - - - - - - - - - this choice is still being tested - I just thought that postboard, 7 equipments plus 8 STPs should make Aggro.dec a favorable MU, which in effect undermines Spell Snare's versatility, making Pierces more desirable overall.
---
4 Flooded Strand
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Tropical Island
3 Tundra
2 Mutavault
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Island
1 Academy Ruins
------------------------------------------------------- what would you guys change to find room for Mutavault #3?
SB:
4 Path to Exile
3 Gaddock Teeg
3 Krosan Grip
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Pithing Needle
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[GrooGrux]

I agree.

I have been running this deck for a while and NEVER have I EVER wanted to play the collar. I cut it. It never helped really. Most of your match ups don't need it. SoLS give pro black, takes care of the tombstalker etc. And Jitte is huge against goblins and merfolk, instant speed -1/-1 is so much better than death touch. Pro blue red is huge. The real problem with the collar however is that it does not help you win the race. Your creature stays at 1/1 it is still a 20 turn clock with a sprite on the board. With FnI or LnS or Jitte, its is a 4 of 5 turn game....HUGE DIFFERENCE

One heiarch one sprite and sword of fire and ice = 18 damage three turns.

One heiarch one sprite and a collar = 18 damage and 18 life gained in 9 turns. In three turns, its only 6 and 6 = that is 12 point life swing, but you still have to do 14 more damage.

Also, if you are playing tombstalker, your are probably playing against a 2/3 flying death lifelink anyways. Pro black = much better in this situation. I would run something else over the collar. Anything that will increase your consistency in your meta or give you more control in an unknown meta.

[HAVE HEART]

I think this deck just Top 8'd the Orlando 5K. Wonder what name they will give it? Obviously it will be something awful, but hopefully it is funny.

[hungryLIKEALION]

Man, they just named it "Bant". Lame.

Anyway, that's another high finish for the vial version. He is playing 14 creatures though (but only 18 blue cards...? Yuck!)

MD Jotun Grunts. Interesting, but I'm not sure I like it.

[nodahero]

From the look of his list I would wager he is a follower of Land Hax/UW tempo also... Just a hunch though. It would explain the card counts.

[yadda]

From the look of his list I would wager he is a follower of Land Hax/UW tempo also... Just a hunch though. It would explain the card counts.

Agreed.


Also here is the list from the 5k:


Bant
A Legacy Magic deck, by Lewis Laskin
5th place at a StarCityGames.com $5,000 Legacy Open tournament in Orlando, Florida, United States on 2010-03-28
As reported at http://www.starcitygames.com/php/new...cle/19057.html

Maindeck:
2 Jotun Grunt

Artifacts
4 Aether Vial
1 Sword Of Fire And Ice

Creatures
4 Spellstutter Sprite
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Tarmogoyf

Enchantments
2 Threads Of Disloyalty

Instants
4 Brainstorm
3 Daze
4 Force Of Will
4 Swords To Plowshares

Legendary Artifacts
2 Umezawa's Jitte

Sorceries
1 Ponder

Basic Lands
1 Island
1 Plains

Lands
4 Flooded Strand
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Mutavault
1 Savannah
2 Tropical Island
4 Tundra

Sideboard:
1 Pithing Needle
3 Tormod's Crypt
3 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Meddling Mage
2 Blue Elemental Blast
3 Krosan Grip
1 Mindbreak Trap

[nodahero]

I really like the lsit that made top 8 yesterday except for the threads. They just seem a little overkill. I would rather that be something more flexible like a VClique. Not to mention the Clique also powers up the Sprite.

[yadda]

Threads is simply ridicules in so many matchups, i 4 for 1ed someone on mws the other day with it by taking their dreadnought and then forcing him to block it with a second one. No he should not have been playing dreadnought but that isn't the point, threads is effective against tons of different strategies including any deck containing goyf.

As for his list, i dont like a few of his choices, for instance im personally of the noble hierarch camp in that debate and i would also have included more blue cards instead of the jotun grunts. which seem like overkill since they are most effective against aggro who we already smash.

As Lion already pointed out he only ran 18 blue cards including 5 cantrips which are certainly not something you want to have to hold in order to keep your FOWs turned on.

[hungryLIKEALION]

I played Excalibur yesterday at Vestal going 4-3. My list was as follows.

4 Mutavault
1 Island
1 Forest
1 Plains
4 Flooded Strand
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Savannah
2 Tundra
3 Tropical Island

4 Noble Hierarch
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Spellstutter Sprite
3 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Sower of Temptation

2 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 FoW
3 Daze
2 Jitte
1 SoFI

SB:
3 Tormod's Crypt
2 Path to Exile
2 Krosan Grip
3 Faerie Macabre
3 Wash Out
1 Trygon Predator
1 Thwart

Report's up: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...ost#post446396