Nice to read that Hollywood. I'm looking forward to it.
I'm really interested in your new stuff Hollywood, go and write it down ;)
Hey you replaced the Percy pic in the Primer with the new phy. crusader;)
You would be correct, Seraph; Phyrexian Crusader is currently being worked into the new list. Nullifying Firespout, Swords to Plowshares, Lightning Bolt, etc. is just a beating and in testing he has been proving his worth. Probably the best card in the deck.
I've been a little busy taking extra time trying to get this thread as updated as I can with work and such but I'm on top of it.
The crusader is indeed amazing. My playset arrived last week;) So I am keen on how the new list will be.
So you really think Phyrexian Crusader is worth it? He doesn't synergize with any other creatures in the deck, because he basically doesn't deal any damage, unless you manage to make a total of 5 hits with him.
Sure he is pretty hard to kill with most removal spells and a beast of a wall most of the time, but I feel he'd be much stronger in a more agressive mono black build geared more towards poison and having Dark Ritual to power him out on turn 1.
Phyrexian Vatmother might be good alongside Phyrexian Crusader, but focusing this deck on poison seems to be a very weak attempt.
We have our 8 edict effects and other removal. So if you have a crusader (and maybe a jitte) thats a fast clock;)
Phyrexian Crusader comes down turn three at the earliest. It requires five indefinite hits on its own merit to end the game. It dodges every relevant piece of removal in the format (including multilateral cards like Vindicate, Grim Lavamancer, and Devastating Dreams) and cannot be blocked by the aforementioned colored creatures.
Abyssal Persecutor comes down turn four at the earliest. It requires four hits before requiring a sacrificial outlet to allow it to die. It can be exiled by Swords/Path and if blocking can die to cards like Lightning Bolt and Chain Lightning.
Abyssal Persecutor is still awesome, and I am still running a pair, but the format has sped up tremendously on the battlefield and although Persecutor is a beating, Crusader is its own separate win condition entity. In addition with Jitte, the game can effectively end in as soon as three hits. The card is a problem by itself, which is exactly what we want, because we are working to squeeze every last bit threat-wise out of each creature in the deck.
Sure, Goyf can block it. That is unless of course an opponent actually sticks a Goyf against you (which should not happen that often).
And I am also looking into Dark Ritual as a supplement here.
One bad thing with the crusader: He can`t fly, so he can`t stall the air vs stalkers, but thats not so important due to the fact that we can handle with blood, gatekeeper and GftT every releant creature.
And in the most cases Percy ends the game with THREE hit (fetchlands).
So I think I will give my crusaders a chance, but I think we have to cut therapys for more GftT.
Takes 3 hits with Persecutor. Opponents cracking two fetches or a hit or two from another creature that actually deals damage isn't unrealistic.
Best case scenarios don't matter. Without removal for Goyf, it can kill it with blocking or fly over. If you have removal that just means you can save it for Persecutor. It has a 3-turn clock without Jitte, and with Jitte it can kill itself with 3 hits.
Resetting your opponent's life points seems like a bad plan. Get a couple hits in with a Confidant and Gatekeeper before they get removed and then bringing this guy out seems like it'll feel like a gigantic waste of time.
Basically, it comes down to: immune to removal, cheaper cost vs. big body(faster clock, better blocking), evasion, more synergy with your other creatures and opponent's cards. Seeing as how there's hand disruption and other creatures to subtract the opponent's removal, I'd rather have Persecutor.
EDIT:
Slow posting is slow.
What are your thoughts on Phyrexian Vatmother as supplement for the Crusader then?
I'm very.. very dissapointed. Now it's gonna be called The Poisonous Crusaders or what?
It's hard for me to accept this because I'm one of those few people who actually plays this deck in tournaments. So now what, everyone's gonna dump Percys and add Dark Rituals and Crusaders because Hollywood says it's good?
I am playing both Crusader and Persecutor, for reference.
OK. I'll start doing some testing with the Crusader to see how he pans out. I don't see what it can hurt to try him.
@ Hollywood-
So you're a pretty big Halloween fan, huh?
At the moment, i am not very convinced about the Crusader. Sure he is somewhat of a good beater BUT Infect in the matter of poisoning is like opening another 10 life for an opponent who you maybe allready dealt some damage to......
I mean, ye, Persecutor is expensive @ cc4 but he does a great job. I just swapped out 2 Persecutor for 2 Crusaders in the "normal" list and have to say that it doesn't draw like this would be better (just goldfishing so far)
Also i won't agree that Persecutor needs 4 hits - in most cases he took a maximum of 3 hits to finish of my opponent, and comparing this to the 5 hits Crusader needs.....i really don't know about this.
I am looking forward to your choices and list, i would be happy to be convinced that Crusader is good here, but at the moment i can't imagine how this is working out.
By the way ""Ritual? U sewiuz?""
So the plan will be Turn1 Ritual into Crusader (while thinking: "please dont have a Force, please dont have a Force") and removing every part of whatever meat your opponent drops on the table to protect himself?
well, enough with the riddle-games, i want to see this list....
:D
Seriously man, that was one of the premises of the deck. Although testing Phyrexian Crusader is interesting, Dark Ritual requires a serious reworking of the deck; does it follow the premises of the Gate anymore?
*Edit
I utilized every piece of logic I had at my disposal, zealotly opposed the inclusion of Dark Rit. in any Gate list, and now we have this turnaround? I don't think I can show my face on the salvation boards again if this pans out.
I'm working on the list more right now. I really like Crusader, and I think he is better than we give him credit for. I have room for him in my sideboard against decks like Zoo and Counterbalance (w/ Firespout).
Retooling a deck that needs serious retooling in an environment now where Aether Vial is far more prevalent means we need to speed up the clock for our opponents. We need to generate some speed here; I'm just sensing this in testing. It's certainly not easy and because I've been away from the deck a while, entertaining ideas would help.
I'll have it up shortly.
maximum: Yes, a huge Halloween fan. I have a "Magic Pumpkin" play-mat, deck box with pumpkins, and orange and black dice.
Agreed 100%. Except for the part about Sally. You're fervent in your belief and a little overzealous sometimes, but you're no troll. You'll always be welcome there.
Edit: Meant to also say that I eagerly await any testing from the creator of the deck that I love so very, very much.
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