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Thread: [Deck] The Gate

  1. #1001

    Re: [Deck] The Gate

    Okay, so I know a lot of people have been wondering what sort of ideas I've been tossing around for a new Gate list, and while I have been away from the deck for a time, I have been avidly following its discussion as well as evaluation the meta as it stands today. In order for this deck to be competitive, we need to be able to beat the most prolific decks in the format, or the "Big Three" as I'd like to call them:

    1. Four-Color Counterbalance.
    2. Goblins.
    3. Merfolk.

    While I certainly could have included Combo in the discussion, this archetype has traditionally had difficulties dealing with Combo for a while now. We can address those issues as well as updating what appears to be an obsolete method of thinking once Survival of the Fittest became banned, which is to say, more methodical is always more effective. With Aether Vial at the forefront of Legacy, we need to get right in there and understand why it might now be okay to run Dark Ritual in some variants of this archetype. We can't afford to be narrow-minded here and need to come to terms with the fact that The Gate as of February 17th, 2011 is not the same deck it was five or six months ago.

    What I'd like to start off first by talking about specifically is Dark Ritual and why we might need it to compensate for the explosive starts the format is now undergoing. I know we've been talking forever about completely nixing it from our minds and remembering that it only allows for explosive starts and acts as a "filler-for-draw" later in the game.

    Okay, we accept that. But is it really as dead as we think it is here?

    I guess it depends on what sort of premise we are using going forward with this archetype. All of us know that sickening feeling when that bastard Aether Vial hits the table on your opponent's play turn one. There is little we can do about it...except match it. But we don't necessarily need Dark Ritual. We could also try something else...

    In hindsight, it is conceivable we can try and use Aether Vial as a means to get around Counterbalance and allow for explosive starts early in the game without needing to tap out our resources and progressively wait until we get blown out by the hasty Red Men swinging in for lethal before we know it. Those are the days that are upon us once again and we need to act accordingly. With that being said, here is a start from my vantage point to increase the speed of The Gate, without necessarily blowing out future draws:

    Aether Vial.

    Aether Vial is the best card in Legacy right now, hands down. There is little any deck can do to stop it once it hits the table, and the confusion it causes to open the game will leave an opponent uncertain how to handle it once it goes online. The only card to be affected by this inclusion would be Gatekeeper of Malakir, but he still has a home here as being an integral piece of removal with a body to boot.

    Before continuing, how does everyone feel about Vial and or Ritual in The Gate in today's meta?

  2. #1002
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    Re: [Deck] The Gate

    I'll admit I've considered Vial before, but dismissed it, believing that the disynergy (or, better, lack of synergy) with Gatekeeper wasn't worth it. To run Vial we would need to incorporate more threats into the deck; otherwise, Vial sits w/o a creature. The deck with the lightest Vial count that I know of is Merfolk, and they run at least 20 (vialable) threats. Good vialable effects, too - free draw, combat tricks, the occasional Cursecatcher trip-up. What could we run? We would need creatures worth vialing, more of them, and a smooth curve to boot. Some possibilities:
    Cadaver Imp
    Mesmeric Fiend
    Phylactery Lich?
    Priest of Gix
    Shriekmaw
    Skinrender
    Those are the only slightly promising ones. Of course, that's just ones with CIP abilities.

    As an alternative, we could just answer the damn thing. I think MDing Phyrexian Revoker may be a decent answer to at least the blue half of the Vial equation. The red one - well, they have removal, let's leave it at that.

    We may want to draw some inspiration from Craig W......'s list from a StarCityOpen a while back. It was Mono-Black Control, and seemed like a strong deck. I'll dig it up after Judo if no one else has.
    Quote Originally Posted by ktkenshinx View Post
    The Reserved List is a) not legally binding, b) antiquated, c) broken, and d) preventative of maximum game enjoyment. Wizards will remove as many cards from that list as possible to increase the fun of their game. Using market research, they can find a balance between printing enough cards to lower a price from $40 to $15-$20, and not utterly ruining their value. This will be both an economically feasible AND sensible move.
    -ktkenshinx-

  3. #1003

    Re: [Deck] The Gate

    I'm more than likely going to run two main-decked Engineered Plague in my new list; it's a blowout when it lands. This, of course, would work amazing with Dark Ritual, giving us a much needed advantage against Tribal Aggro. This would alleviate early pressure and buy us a lot of time to setup a win condition like Bitterblossom or Persecutor.

    I'm convinced that this is a viable option in today's meta and is just a blowout more often than not. It also gives us some help against Combo's large number of Goblin tokens as well, something this deck used to always have a problem with. I think powering out cards like this or Phyrexian Crusader turn one is incredibly powerful and creates an immediate clock paired with our bargain removal and discard.

    We're still generating card advantage here too; by nullifying an opponent's removal your giving them dead cards and forcing them to answer the problem immediately, which is ridiculously hard for them to do.

  4. #1004

    Re: [Deck] The Gate

    This Vial thing could work. I do agree with bako that we probably need to become more creature-dense in order to maximize, or at least improve, its efficiency. Nantuko Shade immediately came to mind. Seems good as an early Vial drop. Plus, he allows for explosive combat tricks with the inclusion of Dark Rit.

    Don't think Engineered Plague is a terrible idea either, because let's face it, tribal is everywhere in most places. And as stated before, Dark Rit just became a lot better with this in the main.

    Are we still pretty convinced that Go for the Throat makes the cut as a four-of? Because honestly, it's been nothing short of amazing for me.

  5. #1005
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    Re: [Deck] The Gate

    Still wary of Dark Rit, as well as Aether Vial, but E. Plague main had been a thought a while ago. The reasoning was, it's never truly dead. Shrinking something isn't ideal, but it's still a play. And you can target stuff like Zombie tokens to 1/2 their assault, not to mention hitting Kitties for Zoo and druids for Bant. Wizards if they stick a Confidant.
    Quote Originally Posted by ktkenshinx View Post
    The Reserved List is a) not legally binding, b) antiquated, c) broken, and d) preventative of maximum game enjoyment. Wizards will remove as many cards from that list as possible to increase the fun of their game. Using market research, they can find a balance between printing enough cards to lower a price from $40 to $15-$20, and not utterly ruining their value. This will be both an economically feasible AND sensible move.
    -ktkenshinx-

  6. #1006

    Re: [Deck] The Gate

    Also just wanted to throw this out there, again. Making the jump up to Thoughtseize seems like it may be worth it. Particularly when battling Goblins. The 2 life seems worth handling Ringleader and SGC before they stack the board against you.

    Maybe it's still not needed if this Engineered Plague thing ends up sticking, but it's just a thought.

    Being able to control our life loss from Bob with SDT may be worth looking into as well. Just brainstorming.

  7. #1007

    Re: [Deck] The Gate

    if black had a one drop worth a damn vial might work. i tried it with straight black and then tried a black/green threshold with vial, mongoose and goyf but the synergy vial has in goblins and fish just isnt there. i did end up with a fun vial zombies deck for the casual room though.

  8. #1008
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    Re: [Deck] The Gate

    Before continuing, how does everyone feel about Vial and or Ritual in The Gate in today's meta?
    Dark Ritual still seems very wrong to me if you are trying to land a 3drop with it. I see so much Daze and FoW - this is close to unplayable.
    You can still do the classic "Duress + Hymn" which is nice without any doubt and can just plain destroy an enemy. Ritual into Duress into Confidant seems nice too. But i just don't see the need for this.


    Aether Vial is a nice idea in theory. If we got all our mana for removal ready and can still get our creatures in parallel - that would be awesome.
    But i don't see what threats we could get into a smooth curve.....
    Depending your Vial on 3 seems too high for me, and at 2 mana there pretty much only is Confidant. Death and Taxes shows pretty good what the 2 mana slot has to have to make Vial worthwhile :)




    EDIT:
    I just did some searching to find out, what creatures in theory would smooth out the curve or be worth playing in general, i thought i'd just share this, even if you feel like flaming me for it, i think i just share the quick thoughts i had while looking for meat power:

    <Black Knight - cc2 is nice, protection from swords is nice, but i dont think a 2/2 body will be sufficient, not even with first strike.
    <Hand of Cruelty - essentially seems like a better black knight to me, but then again, thinking about the tricks you can do with jitte, first strike CAN be superiour to bushido....
    <Phyrexian Crusader - he is a hoser on the battlefield, no doubt, but it still feels like a drawback that he does not inflict damage to a player
    <Hypnotic Specter - not without Ritual, not worth to vial in imo
    <Phyrexian Negator - .... dunno, kinda depends on Dark Ritual and Sangromancy AND the opponent not to have any burn
    <Phyrexian Revoker - y well is nice, but misses the point of combat with its 2/1 body and no combat tricks
    <Tombstalker - won't happen as long as i can't control what i draw with confidant. I don't want to go more suicide....
    Last edited by sporenfrosch1411; 02-18-2011 at 04:38 AM.

  9. #1009
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    Re: [Deck] The Gate

    Some thoughts/suggestions/questions:

    * Arent Bitterblossom + Jitte the key cards vs Tribal?

    * I have tested adding 2 Chrome Moxes to speed up the deck. Its very good when Confidant sticks or T1 Hymn hits good stuff but when neither of above happens or you topdeck Moxes... Its bad. Dark Ritual has same problems.

    * Adding 3 Mox Diamonds and 2 Crucibles seems nice, but you would want to run manlands then and those are bad in The Gate. Theres no Knight of Reliquary or anything else to take advantage of the lands in grave either.

    * Phyrexian Revoker is awesome, I would run definitely some split of it with Needles in the SB in the future based on my experiece wit it.

    * 2cc Removal is too slow vs Merfolk/Goblins and bad against Counterbalance.

    * 3 Maindeck Deathmark, not good enough considering "the decks to beat" now? Is this acceptable removal suite: 4 Innocent Blood + 3 Disfigure or 4 Innocent Blood + 2 Disfigure + Snuff Out (no 4th Persecutor)?

    * If we run vial, splash would be definitely possible. This might help with the problem of not having good 1 drop as well.

    * Phyrexian Crusader seems very interesting and as Hollywood pointed out how fast clock it actually is and doesnt die to any relevant removal(!)

  10. #1010
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    Re: [Deck] The Gate

    Phyrexian Crusader is really nice if you can get a Jitte on him. Phyrexian Crusader's casting cost of 1BB is more smooth than the 2BB Persecutor.
    But, what other Infect(ing) creatures can be played? I don't see the use of "splitting" the damage this deck does into normal damage and poison counters and i don't see any other infectors that are playable, the closes to beeing playable would be Plague Stinger in my opinion, but i don't think he is any good. Also, with the rise of "Go for the throat" and Canadian going into Black(disfigure, Go for the Throat) instead of red, i am not 100% sure if the Crusader really is the best thing you can play.


    Let's imagine this:
    You attack with a Persecutor (or Nighthawk) and a Crusader.
    Does this seem good to you? To me, it does not.
    @Hollywood:
    Do you plan on any other Infect-Creatures?

  11. #1011
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    Re: [Deck] The Gate

    Here's a thought:

    I find it wierd when you think that a deck that is still able to put results, still have good matches against half of the tier decks and has a very solid list needs to be transformed. I can understand tests with new ideas, I'm pretty much open for these, as The Gate born from one of these, but I think the currently stabilished The Gate is set, and shouldn't be transformed in that way, here, at this thread. Well, maybe I'm wrong, but I still feel that some people will read the thread looking for the 1.0 version, while the discussion will turn into the new 2.0 version, and to be honest, I think the 1.0 version still is a good deck right now.

    Maybe this should be N&D material?
    If you fail to explain the reason behind your choice, technically, it's the wrong choice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tacosnape View Post
    It's one of the ten strongest cards in Legacy. And in truth, in any deck you design, you really need to have a good reason -not- to run Wasteland.
    Zerk Thread -- Really, fun deck! ^^

  12. #1012
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    Re: [Deck] The Gate

    Well, i think we all agree, that we need to see this list now, Hollywood.
    We demand it!
    :D

  13. #1013

    Re: [Deck] The Gate

    I don't like the idea of Vial here. At all. We don't have anything that can cause shenanigans with it (see Death and Taxes), and we don't have a strong creature curve. Vial works so great in Goblins and Merfolk because they have relevant creatures at each converted mana cost. We have a strong curve overall, but not with creatures, and black doesn't have the creatures to support it. Sure we have Bob and maybe Shade at 2, Nighthawk and "Crusader" at 3, but what do we have at 1? Guul Draz Assassin? I can see him in a Vial deck I suppose, but he's still subpar T1 and worse later. Black just simply doesn't have the creatures to compete against Goblins and Merfolk, that's why MBA died to begin with. That's why The Gate is so good at what it does. Early disruption into big threats. That's the only way for Mono-B to keep pace. Cards like rit and vial are tempo cards, and black cannot match the tempo of Goblins and Merfolk with creatures. It simply can't.

  14. #1014

    Re: [Deck] The Gate

    I like where Gui is coming from on his last post and is absolutely right: the deck is very well rounded and still puts up solid results against a great deal of the format. I would, however, caution you to take a step back and look at where the format is as a collective and what decks are generating the best results. Namely, the aforementioned.

    In the last tournament I ever played this deck in, it was Baltimore at the Star City Games' Legacy Open some time last year. I ended up running into Goblins twice and got annihilated by Warchief and Vial, both key components to Goblin's success. Because this deck predicates itself on a game-plan set on working towards setting up the first three turns with discard and slower (yet cheaper and untargeted) removal, I could not match speed and forces with how Goblins was able to power out so many threats before I had a chance to play anything relevant.

    Dark Ritual has become a card associated most directly with Combo and Suicide Black variants. But if you take a closer look at how this deck functions, it becomes more and more noticeable that the deck somehow begs for Dark Ritual plays on the first or second turns. Just look at these degenerate plays the deck would be capable of generating the first turn with Dark Ritual present:

    1. Swamp + Dark Ritual + Duress + Hymn to Tourach.
    2. Swamp + Dark Ritual + Duress + Dark Confidant.
    3. Swamp + Dark Ritual + Engineered Plague.
    4. Swamp + Dark Ritual + Phyrexian Crusader.
    5. Swamp + Dark Ritual + Duress + Bitterblossom.
    6. Swamp + Dark Ritual + Dark Ritual + Cabal Therapy + Abyssal Persecutor.

    (These are just a few select plays.)

    The biggest thing I see here is the numerical increase of needing powerful two-drops, like we have. Being able to kick off a Dark Ritual into discard into Bitterblossom or Dark Confidant is incredibly powerful. I just think the power-level of what we're trying to generate says more about the threats the deck uses instead of atypical Suicide variants whose threats are easily removed and really bank on a series of draws to back up the first turn. While Ritual would change the complexity of the deck, as well as the intricacies involving setting up more explosive plays as opposed to slower, more methodical plays, I think it's not entirely unreasonable to consider how powerful Dark Ritual is here.

    There is also a boarding strategy that would go along with it, as you might want to board them out on the draw against decks packing Daze. Aside from that, what this deck desperately needs is an upgrade against its worse match-ups, and Dark Ritual improves on that.

    Against Combo it allows us to power out discard into threats simultaneously, while also being able to generate boarded in cards like Thorn of Amethyst and discard too. We need to be able to hit hard and early against Combo to win, this much is obvious. It also doesn't hurt to be able to nail down a turn one Plague against Belcher after they have dropped their entire hand and nothing to show for it.

    Against Goblins, nailing down a turn one Plague is huge and following it up with subsequent threats is very good. You can also power out removal into a threat with Lackey present, which is also effective.

    Against Counterbalance, we can power out discard into a threat which seems very good. Also, being able to nail down a Crusader before they can do anything forces them to temporarily abandon their strategy of locking you out and try to stay alive. If they don't have a Force, then chances are they're holding removal and Tarmogoyf - which is the absolute least of our worries with cards like Go for the Throat and Deathmark. This is a card that - if played like this and resolved - should win you the game outright. Even if an opponent manages to knock it out somehow or some way with eight Poison counters, they still have to deal with one of the other three being able to get in one shot to win the game. That's not as bad as it sounds, because during this whole time we will be playing other threats and discard spells to slow them down long enough where a Swords on a Nighthawk becomes almost moot in the face of an unstoppable clock.

    spore: I don't have a solid list as of right now, because I don't know how other people feel about adding Ritual to the list. I think it is too good in the meta to pass up. If we're not running Vial, we need to be able to match its speed somehow, and from what I gather this is the optimal solution.

  15. #1015
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    Re: [Deck] The Gate

    Well, my opinions are:

    About Dark Ritual, I kind of suggested this idea before, but a little less radical: Sideboard.
    I think Dark Ritual is as strong as Hollywood says, but it is situational. In some games you simply can't pay the card cost for its acceleration
    I don't like having situational cards that way in my maindecks, so I suggested it as an option against Combo, and possibly against something else where it's good.

    I never really considered Crusader, since it isn't much synergical with the hole deck.
    The fact that games might be single handed solved by its drop could help him make the cut, but as for Dark Ritual, I prefer my situational cards as Sideboard options.

    At another topic, against 2 of the aforementioned "Big 3" (Merfolks and Goblins), Inquisition of Kozilek is better than Duress. To be honest, so is for Zoo.
    I've been considering IoK as a possible maindeck instead of Duress for a while, and against DTBs meta, IoK seems better.
    Duress' argument that "the deck already runs a lot of removal" is lame to me, since it doesn't consider any opponent, and considering the opponents plays a big hole on winning games.
    I can agree with "I don't play IoK because most decks here plays Jace, and Duress @ Jace won me a lot of games", but saying you have enough to handle creatures when Goblins and Merfolks odds are like 50:50 isn't right.
    Not saying IoK is the definitive choice, just saying it is good to keep it as an option and an easy metacall.
    If you fail to explain the reason behind your choice, technically, it's the wrong choice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tacosnape View Post
    It's one of the ten strongest cards in Legacy. And in truth, in any deck you design, you really need to have a good reason -not- to run Wasteland.
    Zerk Thread -- Really, fun deck! ^^

  16. #1016
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    Re: [Deck] The Gate

    (Hello all... long time watcher)

    I don't run the Gate as per the known list in mono B; but splash G for Goyf, Pulse, and Berserk. G is worth it for Berserk alone, Bob/ shade puts them to 18, 2 swings with percy seals the game. The majority of decks I play against are fast aggro, Affinity, NO Elves, Goblins, with Merfolk, Dredge, and Combo (mainly belcher).

    DR keeps me in the game; T1 Duress + Bob; or T1 Duress + Shade; or T1 Duress + Blossom: or T2 Percy. I'm not a massive fan of T1 Duress and Hymm; as you are both down 3 cards, although good against combo. I accept DR is an awful topdeck, but at least it feeds Shade, and T3/4 Percy + Hymm is never sad. It also means I am less hesitant to wastelands at the first oportunity knowing I can draw DR, and it picks me up if I get wasted (......... que suggestion to play to Gate's strength of basic lands)
    (duress... pick you favorite from IoK or Thoughseize)

    I don't think Vial has that much promise in B (but please prove wrong). With B creatures, at 2 its good, and 3 its really strong; but by the time you are at 3 the game state is so far developed. Specter is strong because you can drop it T1. Specter and N Hawk are a poor show off a vial on T4. You need effective use at 1 and 2.

    Crusader seams strong in the SB to go defensive; not sure about MD.

  17. #1017

    Re: [Deck] The Gate

    I really like your proposed changes Hollywood. Ritual is an incredible addition to the deck. Crusader is resilient and sped up significantly by Jitte and Funeral Charm/Unholy Mutation.

    If you go this route, I would replace Bitternlossom with the 1/1 flying creature with poison for two mana to supplement the Crusader and pump spells.

  18. #1018
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    Re: [Deck] The Gate

    Vial is absolutely wrong for a deck with Bitterblossom and Gatekeeper of Malakir -- not the effect so much as it taking up slots for actual power.

    Phyrexian Crusader -- no sir, I don't like it. Not without more equipment/better pump. BEST case scenario is t3 Crusader, t4 Jitte+equip, swing. Still doesn't kill til t6, and that's against an empty board. I don't see how it's an improvement.

    Dark Ritual... Ohhhh, Dark Ritual. It's a card that demands 4-of if you're going to run one. So, let's look at the latest list from the OP, and speculate:

    Speculative Hollywood The Gate, Ritualed

    17 Swamp
    4 Wasteland

    2 Abyssal Persecutor
    4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
    4 Dark Confidant
    4 Vampire Nighthawk // or Phyrexian Crusader, I suppose

    4 Duress
    4 Innocent Blood
    4 Dark Ritual
    3 Cabal Therapy
    3 Hymn to Tourach

    2 Umezawa's Jitte
    3 Bitterblossom
    2 Engineered Plague



    This list drops Deathmarks and a Jitte for 4 rituals. It seems really, REALLY light on removal, though that's shored up by two maindeck plagues.

    I don't know, especially with Crusaders over Nighthawks, it seems like a weenie deck.

  19. #1019

    Re: [Deck] The Gate

    Quote Originally Posted by mujadaddy View Post
    Vial is absolutely wrong for a deck with Bitterblossom and Gatekeeper of Malakir -- not the effect so much as it taking up slots for actual power.

    Phyrexian Crusader -- no sir, I don't like it. Not without more equipment/better pump. BEST case scenario is t3 Crusader, t4 Jitte+equip, swing. Still doesn't kill til t6, and that's against an empty board. I don't see how it's an improvement.

    Dark Ritual... Ohhhh, Dark Ritual. It's a card that demands 4-of if you're going to run one. So, let's look at the latest list from the OP, and speculate:

    Speculative Hollywood The Gate, Ritualed

    17 Swamp
    4 Wasteland

    2 Abyssal Persecutor
    4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
    4 Dark Confidant
    4 Vampire Nighthawk // or Phyrexian Crusader, I suppose

    4 Duress
    4 Innocent Blood
    4 Dark Ritual
    3 Cabal Therapy
    3 Hymn to Tourach

    2 Umezawa's Jitte
    3 Bitterblossom
    2 Engineered Plague



    This list drops Deathmarks and a Jitte for 4 rituals. It seems really, REALLY light on removal, though that's shored up by two maindeck plagues.

    I don't know, especially with Crusaders over Nighthawks, it seems like a weenie deck.
    While I agree with your sentiments, I don't know if four Innocent Blood, four Gatekeeper of Malakir, the Deathtouch of four Nighthawk, counters from Umezawa's Jitte, and Engineered Plague constitute as being light on removal. Let's also not forget Engineered Plague against "Thopters," too. That's a huge step in the right direction.

    Here is something I've been tinkering with:

    // Lands
    [18x] Swamp

    // Creatures
    [4x] Phyrexian Crusader
    [4x] Vampire Nighthawk
    [4x] Gatekeeper of Malakir
    [4x] Dark Confidant
    [2x] Abyssal Persecutor

    // Spells
    [4x] Dark Ritual
    [4x] Innocent Blood
    [2x] Cabal Therapy
    [2x] Umezawa's Jitte
    [3x] Bitterblossom
    [3x] Hymn to Tourach
    [4x] Duress
    [2x] Engineered Plague

    // Sideboard
    SB: [2x] Deathmark
    SB: [1x] Bitterblossom
    SB: [2x] Engineered Plague
    SB: [2x] Null Rod
    SB: [4x] Thorn of Amethyst
    SB: [3x] Dystopia
    SB: [1x] Umezawa's Jitte

    I really feel like the sideboard in a list like this should not be transformational using Dark Ritual, but rather saturated with utility that helps us against our worst match-ups. Dark Ritual can always be sided out properly, with cards like Thorn and Null Rod to shut down a multitude of various bad match-ups.

    Because I am only running two Persecutor, I've chopped down the number of Therapies from three to two. It is still powerful with Bitterblossom and serves great utility. The most glaring omission would be that of Wasteland. Wasteland in this deck has always been the catch-22, and I think a large part of the reason has to do with generating that third Black source for Gatekeeper and double-Black for a large portion of the deck. I've found myself mulliganing very aggressively because of this, and I feel as though Dark Ritual will completely change the dynamic of how this deck mulligans, which is to say, much less aggressively.

    The deck still uses a methodical suite of spells, except with a list like this we can churn out a devastating, evasive threat early enough that an opponent cannot do anything in time to save themselves before cards like Crusader and Bitterblossom get out of hand. This forces an opponent into going on the defensive early, and while The Gate traditionally invites players to churn their own set of threats out and match them card for card, I think it's worth noting that there are restrictions that a single-colored deck has. In knowing this, I feel at this point in the current Legacy meta we need to be able to match the speed of the decks that are constantly running the table.

    Dark Ritual in that respect gives us an advantage.
    Last edited by Michael Keller; 02-19-2011 at 10:00 AM.

  20. #1020

    Re: [Deck] The Gate

    I’m going to be playing The Gate at StarCity Denver this weekend, and I’m trying to decide which build to use.

    You sure about Dark Ritual? Halloween, your last post is accurate - though sort of obvious, and sounds like things people were saying early in this thread. Yes, Dark Ritual allows for insane t1 plays. But your key insight behind The Gate, for me, has always been that The Gate can give up the early game race every other deck competes for in exchange for winning the midgame. Drawing a late ritual is unhelpful for that plan.

    You suggest that Ritual is necessary because other aggro decks are just too strong in the early game. Goblins and Elves, certainly, I can see going nuts with combo or vial very quickly. But consider: what good is it to do something broken on t1 on the draw, after the gobbo or elf has already landed a mana dork or a vial? Even if you spam out a nighthawk, you are losing ground quickly. (BTW, with printing of Green Sun’s Zenith, I expect a lot more elf players than typical)

    I suspect that you’ve turned to Dark Ritual as a way to stabilize early because you really, really want to land Crusader or Engineered Plague to shut down explosive aggro decks on turn 1 or 2. But, is eating up four slots of the deck on accelleration really the best way to do this? What you really want to is stabilize or cripple the swarming opponent on t2, right? Mono black may have better ways to do that.

    So, I surveyed all the black cards that damage or shrink creatures en masse. Here’s what I found:

    Mutilate, Damnation, Consume the Meek, Dakmor Plague, Evincanr's Justice, Koskun Falls, Forced March, Black Sun Zenith - Deals with swarms of little dudes just fine, but too expensive. You’d need ritual to even get these out t2. Probably belong in a more typical suiblack build using Ancient Tombs to power stuff out.

    Nausea, Shrivel, Dry Spell, Outbreak - The price is certainly right, but at only 1 damage, it will become jank against Chieftan, Archdruid, or any merfolk. Outbreak in particular would be EXACTLY what we want if only if did 2 damage instead of 1. Oh well.

    Crypt Rats , Gangrenous Zombies, Necroplasm, Plague Spitter, Wave of Terror, Withering Wisps, Engineered Plague - Black’s 3cc slot is stuffed with good 2 damage sweepers. Probably still just on the cusp of being too slow. Plus, those that are creatures can be burned with incinerator before doing their thing.

    Sickening Dreams - Interesting! The price is certainly right. Typically you'd be using this and discarding two cards on turn 2 or 3 to regain control. Is the cost too high in a deck like this, that wants to squeeze advantage out of each card? Well, would you ever cast this unless there were three or more creatures coming at you?

    After this review, I propose that Sickening Dreams does what you’re trying to do with Dark Ritual, but with a different tradeoff. Dreams will typically cost you two cards in hand, whereas Ritual costs you 4 cards in your deck. Granted, the things you are powering out with Ritual are permanents and so control the board state beyond the initial play.

    So, is there a way to naturally incorporate Dreams into The Gate to an advantage? Well, Cabal Therapy doesn’t mind terribly being discarded. Since Crusader is also worth running, what about using Unearth? It returns every creature except Percy, and cycles if you don’t need it. Alternatively, what about Reanimate? T2 dreams to sweep away gobbos, pitching percy, into T3 reanimate percy seems pretty hard core. The other cute thing about reanimate is the potential to steal your opponent’s fattie if they leave it in the yard for a turn.

    Here’s a rough draft of an idea. The deck trades some of its ability to stop zoo and dreadnaught type decks for more power against merfolk/gobbos/elves without using Ritual.

    LAND (21)

    17 Swamp
    4 Wasteland

    CREATURES (17)

    3 Abyssal Persecutor
    4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
    4 Dark Confidant
    4 Nighthawk
    2 Phyrexian Crusader

    REMOVAL (16)
    4 Duress
    3 Hymn to Torach
    3 Caball Therapy
    4 Innocent Blood
    2 Sickening Dreams

    OTHER (6)
    3 Bitterblossom
    2 Umezawa's Jitte
    1 Reanimate

    SB (15)
    4 Thorn of Amethyst (storm combos, swap out Innocent Blood)
    2 Crusader (gg against zoo and gobbos, swap out a nighthawk and a percy)
    2 Sickening Dreams (elves, gobbos, swap out Hymn)
    1 Reanimate (same)
    1 Hymn to Torach (counterbalance / control decks, swap out sickening dreams)
    1 Cabal Therapy (counterblance / control decks, swap out sickening dreams)
    4 Faerie Macabre (reanimator, swap out sickening dreams)

    Thoughts, comments?

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