imo the problem with chalice is you must be able to get it out T1 or it's not even worth it since there are good chalice decks that can already do it (MUD, Eldrazi, Loam, Tezzerator, etc).
It's not bad, but why bother playing this deck if others can just do what it does better.
Now if we found a way to include sol lands or moxens it would be terrific.
I agree with that.Originally Posted by Cpt-Qc
Now...
What do you think about a build like this?:
// Lands
22 [P2] Swamp (3)
// Creatures
2 [NPH] Phyrexian Obliterator
4 [ZEN] Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 [MBS] Phyrexian Revoker
4 [SOI] Asylum Visitor
// Spells
4 [NPH] Dismember
4 [TE] Cursed Scroll
4 [ISD] Liliana of the Veil
4 [FE] Hymn to Tourach
4 [LRW] Thoughtseize
4 [ROE] Inquisition of Kozilek
// Sideboard
SB: 4 [GP] Leyline of the Void
SB: 4 [SOM] Ratchet Bomb
SB: 3 [NPH] Geth's Verdict
SB: 2 [C13] Toxic Deluge
SB: 2 [SOK] Pithing Needle
SB: 1 [MOR] Bitterblossom
// Other?
SB: 1 [ZEN] Marsh Casualties
SB: 1 [ZEN] Vampire Nighthawk
SB: 1 [OD] Cabal Pit
SB: 1 [TE] Wasteland
SB: 1 [LRW] Oona's Prowler
SB: 1 [ISD] Victim of Night
SB: 1 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
Last edited by EdsonDettoni; 11-09-2016 at 01:58 AM.
http://www.magicspoiler.com/mtg-spoi...ed-aetherborn/
"Gifted Aetherborn, BB, Lifelink/Deathtouch, 2/3"
Basically Vampire Night-Walk
It's not quite what I had hoped for but maybe we'll get there someday! I would gladly trade lifelink for flying....
I vastly prefer this new Vampire Not-Hawk to Bitterblossom in traditional Gate lists. Plus running 4 of these opens up the possibility of replacing our Nighthawks with Hypnotic Specter for old times sake. Hippie is seriously underrated and the only reason The Gate hadn't been able to support it is that Nighthawk clogged up the 3cc space. Hippe also synergies really well with Asylum Visitor.
And I likewise vastly prefer Fatal Push to Innocent Blood in any deck that still runs Innocent Blood. I think Fatal Push is superior to Victim of the Night as well.
Both cards are exactly what this deck needed to breathe some life into it in both legacy and modern.
I also think it's a mistake not to play a Reanimate or two to accompany the 4 Thoughtseizes, Lilanas, Removal and Hymns the deck runs especially in the current meta.
As an aside, can't believe Cursed Scroll is still a thing in legacy, it's such a slow and mana intensive option compared to modern alternatives. I would much rather run equipment or vehicles to Scroll. Have any Scroll players tested any vehicles in their slot?
My proposed list...
19 Swamp
1 Volrath's Stronghold
4 Gifted Aetherborn
3 Dark Confidant
3 Asylum Visitor
3 Gatekeeper of Malakir
3 Hypnotic Specter
2 Phyrexian Obliterator
4 Fatal Blow
4 Thoughtseize
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Liliana of the Veil
2 Victim of the Night
2 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Dark Ritual
1 Reanimate
The list is finely tuned for the current meta. Aetherborn and Liliana serve double duty as removal so you're effectively maindecking 17 removal spells against Eldrazi preboard (Dismembers from the board help some more). You draw a ton of cards allowing you to find an Obliterator and once you land an Obliterator, traditional Eldrazi lists have zero ways to win the game. It also plays a crapton of discard and card advantage giving it great game against control/miracles as well as combo. The one ofs are all bombs that I never want to draw multiples of but are rock solid as singletons. Yes the deck can lose a lot of life but never enough to cost it the game.
However if you're worried about life loss, you could easily go...
-4 Thoughtseize
-1 Reanimate
+4 Inquisition of Kozilek
+1 Dark Ritual
Last edited by Captain Hammer; 01-06-2017 at 02:46 AM.
I agree on new vampire replacing Bitterblossom 100%. It just is a better threat for the 2 slot. Still I'm not sure cutting nighthawk is the right call since Specter is cool and all but it's pretty much dead by turn 4 unless you found no other discard. The only reason it was pushed before was T1 Dark Rit into Specter.
And I don't like Asylum Visitor... BoB is just a better threat overall since he must be answered ASAP.
I would still keep Innocent Blood since it goes around Shroud/Hexproof/Protection. Fatal push is definitely better than Victim of Night but now you HAVE to play fetches/wasteland to make the second mode more reliable.
While we're at it, might as well add 2 bayous to splash for Decay.
Edit: I made a quick list. It's probably gonna change but it's gonna be where I start from in testing:
2 Abyssal Persecutor
3 Vampire Nighthawk
4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 Dark Confidant
4 Gifted Aetherborn
4 Fatal Push
2 Abrupt Decay
3 Innocent Blood
3 Hymn to Tourach
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Duress
2 Liliana of the Veil
2 Umezawa's Jitte
10 Swamp
4 Wasteland
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Polluted Delta
2 Bayou
SB: 2 Extirpate
SB: 2 Pithing Needle
SB: 2 Chains of Mephistopheles
SB: 2 Toxic Deluge
SB: 4 Leyline of the Void
SB: 2 Abrupt Decay
SB: 1 Engineered Plague
Last edited by Cpt-Qc; 01-14-2017 at 01:18 PM.
Hey I follow this thread for kicks, but I'm a Pox player really, and nothing really replaces Cursed Scroll. Repeatable creature removal, win condition, will never be sacrificed to Smallpox (or Pox), can be cast for an incidental mana and just wait around to be useful. I do, however think that a deck full of Nighthawks, Gatekeepers, and Dark Confidants might be a good place to try out Smuggler's Copter.
FTFY. Your initial list had 3 Duress where Abrupt Decay should be.
If you're splashing green and fetchlands, Deathrite Shaman and a Tasigur seem like auto includes. I would definitely play a few Shaman and a Tasigur in any BG builds.
Once you go BG, the deck stops becoming The Gate imo.
Yes, Scroll has a role in Pox and Ensnaring Bridge decks. But this is The Gate, Cursed Scroll simply doesn't belong here.
A green splash sounds more appealing now that Vengeful Rebel got spoiled incentivizing playing Fetchlands even more. I would go with this...
4 Dark Confidant
4 Gifted Aetherborn
4 Vengeful Rebel
2 Gatekeeper of Malakir
2 Vampire Nighthawk
2 Phyrexian Obliterator
4 Fatal Blow
4 Thoughtseize
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Liliana of the Veil
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Volrath's Stronghold
2 Bayou
8 Fetchlands
9 Swamp
I was wrong about Shaman. It's not necessary just because you splash green.
Top + Fetchlands give you Revolt consistently enough to support 4 Vengeful Rebel along with 4 Fatal Blow. Top also combos great with both Confidant and Fetchlands.
Last edited by Captain Hammer; 01-06-2017 at 07:59 PM.
I made that list really fast, didn't think too much about it. But there are some points I have to disagree on.
I think revolt is a must for push actually. There are plenty of 3-4 drops in legacy (flicker, brimaz, Mentor, KoTr, THC, Shardless, Clique, BBE, Siege Rhino, etc).
Just thinking of it as a disfigure is a recipe for disaster since it replaces Victim of Night. I'm fine if it cannot hit Griselbrand because, let's be honest, once he's out you're done anyway.
I just added green because I put fetches there but I will test a reduced number of fetches and no green too. I think with 4 fetches and 4 wasteland you'd be just fine.
Edit: I've already made changes to my GB list to include some amount of decay MB but I really want enough discard so that the deck isn't cold to fast combo.
Last edited by Cpt-Qc; 01-07-2017 at 12:55 AM.
Considering this for tonight. Meta is heavy on D&T/Eldrazi, Depths decks, Sneak & Show, and Uxx midrange. Rarely see Lightning Bolt which makes Nighthawk tempting. Chances of Miracles are very low.
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Dark Confidant
2 Gatekeeper of Malakir
2 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Tombstalker
4 Fatal Push
4 Liliana of the Veil
4 Thoughtseize
3 Cabal Therapy
2 Dismember
1 Diabolic Edict
3 Smuggler's Copter
3 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Chrome Mox
1 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Swamp
4 Wasteland
3 Mishra's Factory
2 Polluted Delta
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Marsh Flats
2 Bayou
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Faerie Macabre
2 Yahenni's Expertise
2 Duress
2 Pithing Needle
1 Krosan Grip
Vampgate has been tearing up Atlanta.
https://twitter.com/TeamTuskMTG/stat...698880/photo/1
Anyone got a list for that?
I guess the BR is for bolt and some more vampires?
Heir of Falkenrath and Asylum Visitor Sinergy?
Vampire nocturnus is also great for just ignore fatties on the ground a lot of the times, but it need a bit of library manipulation methinks. Maybe top+bob?
if i had to guess i would just look for the usual suspects of gatekeeper, 4-8 2/3 lifelink deathtouchers, hexmage, and from what it looks like the nocturnus. not sure what other vampires are really strong enough for legacy, but who knows? would love to be surprised.
-rob
Made a couple changes before going live:
-1 Cabal Therapy
-2 Gatekeeper of Malakir
-2 Phyrexian Revoker
-1 Tombstalker
+1 Engineered Explosives
+3 Gifted Aetherborn
+1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
I remembered Gifted Aetherborn existed and thought it was better than Gatekeeper against decks like Eldrazi. Unfortunately I think the Gatekeeper is a little outclassed right now. Kalitas came in over Tombstalker for Bob reasons -- I forgot I owned one. Played EE main just in case of Chalice.
Rd 1 lost to Goblins in 3, he had to draw exactly Siege-Gang Commander to beat my board and hand and did
Rd 2 drew with Nic Fit, I had enough power to win on turn 5 if he didn't draw a creature, but he did
Rd 3 beat Enchantress, winning a game through an Elephant Grass which I thought was pretty nice
Deck actually seems pretty good. The cards from Kaladesh block add quite a lot. Being able to play 1 cc removal that hits Scavenging Ooze and doesn't make you sac your own DRS was huge. Copter was good at flying over blockers and keeping Bob safe from combat.
On vampires, there are actually quite a lot of good ones. Gifted Aetherborn is surprisingly strong. Gatekeeper and Kalitas are also vampires. Ironically I think most of the best Legacy vampires aren't in the Innistrad blocks.
2-1 last night beating Deadguy Ale and Reid Duke BUG and losing to Shardless. Same list as above.
Deck feels pretty strong. Shardless is tough with all their card draw, but I don't think it's worth worrying about too much because it's not unwinnable and if it ever get super popular I have an excuse to buy Chains.
Hi.
New to this deck but have been playing Eva Green a few years ago. Gonna test the Smuggler version next week, like it alot. Been testing it and it seems strong. But I can't get the feel for the Chrome Moxes. How do you use them? Are they a necessity? And what would you suggest to replace them with if I want to cut them? Is Dark Ritual an alternative?
Skickat från min SM-G920F via Tapatalk
The Gate has become a bit of a casual/pet deck for me, so despite a small green splash for Deathrite and Decay being the usual route, I'd like to keep it mono-black. How crazy is it to add fetchlands and Deathrites just for mana acceleration and reach, and stay mono-black?
Deathrite could power out turn 2 Nighthawks, Gatekeepers, and Lilianas, with a backup plan of turn-2 Dark Confidant and Hymn (and optionally Bitterblossom) if we don't open on Deathrite. I'll try to come up with a sample list.
Most people blindly suggest new cards for decks. True contributors also suggest what to remove. It's not about what's good, but rather what's better than the current selections.
I think if you want to add fetches, you may want to consider Mirri's Guile or Sylvan Library. These both give you the option of sculpting the top of your library with your bob, and you're already splashing Green. Unfortunately at that much green, Goyf starts to seem obvious; but if you resist the urge, I think DRS is good. DRS gets around a lot of lame things opponents try to do by virtue of not-targeting, not attacking, and being life loss. Nothing interacts properly with that combination outside Needle/Revoker; both of which are usually sideboard.
It's hard to pass up confidant, but I know that in Pox I ran Probe + Therapy + Tombstalker. Probe and Fetches and DRS helped to get Tombstalkers out fairly quickly and of course Probe-Therapy is gross. The only issue with the plan is you have to risk DC flipping Stalker.
IME, Lashwrithe was really good when I had a local running Gate a lot. It was not only a threat, but it can insta-equip on Nighthawks or similar, and can send your life-total to ridiculous levels. Additionally, it will probably be +4/+4 by the time you cast it, and paying 4 life to swing for 6+ on T3, gaining 6 as you go, will shut the door on any game very quickly. Equipping for just BB is also very reasonable.
You may consider not going G, and instead going R. Br can run Kolaghan's instead (more reliable for killing equips, inherent CA, can be a threat, can also be a shock to close the game) and if you're mostly running Swamps and a pair of badlands and fetches, you can instead Magus people out of the game for free wins on T2 with your mostly-basic landbase. Either direction seems fine, though I think a R splash will be vastly more powerful with DRS; especially if you move a couple cards to Bolts and use those to close the game with a lock in place.
I find it somewhat funny that people bother with Contamination when something like this is way easier to do and much more reliable.
Tangent: Contamination hits all the basics of Merfolk, D&T, Miracles, etc.
Back to the Gate: thanks for the thoughts and ideas! I really want to try to keep it mono-black for flavor (again, pet deck) for now. Mostly wondering if a 2-ability DRS is good enough to include. I'm going to try it and see.
Most people blindly suggest new cards for decks. True contributors also suggest what to remove. It's not about what's good, but rather what's better than the current selections.
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Reply With Quote