Is this Cycle of Cards broken?

[AngryTroll]

White' Answer (X)

Instant

Spend only white mana on X.

Put X 2/2 white Human Soldier creature tokens onto the battlefield. Exile them at the beginning of the next cleanup step.
'Blue' Answer (X)

Instant

Spend only blue mana on X.

Counter target spell unless its controller pays for each mana spent on ~.
'Black' Answer (X)

Instant

Spend only black mana on X.

Target creature gets -X/-X until the end of turn. You gain X life.
'Red' Answer (X)

Instant

Spend only red mana on X.

~ deals X damage to target creature or player.
'Green' Answer (X)

Instant

Spend only green mana on X.

Search your library for a creature card with converted mana cost X or less and put that card onto the battlefield. Then shuffle your library.

The green one looks perfect. The blue and white ones look fine. The black one looks like Tendrils of Corruption, making it look a little weak. The Red one looks terrible. Compared to Lightning Bolt, Incinerate, Firespout or even Flamebreak, it's way underpowered.

[(nameless one)]

So same problem with Black Answer... its either too weak or too strong.

Any more ideas for it? I wanted to make it so that it is somehow a balanced 2=1 card. Possibly do a Pox variant?

Spend only black mana on X.

Each player loses X life, then discards X cards, then sacrifices X creatures.

Of course, the problem with that now is that its an instant, which makes the card significally better. A lot of people did prefer the "Each player loses X life then sacrifices X creatures." design. Should I just go back with that?

My other new idea was:

Spend only black mana on X.

Destroy X target tapped creatures.

Would this be as powerful as the original design (Destroy X target non-black creatures)?

On Red Answer:

I have updated it to:

Spend only red mana on X

~ deals X damage to each creature without flying and each player.

Is it still chaff or is it too overpowered now?

I have also changed the White Answer from 2/2 white Human Soldier tokens to 2/2 white Angel tokens with flying for flavor purposes. With flying, would it be broken?

[lordofthepit]

I have a bad feeling the new green version is too powerful.

It's essentially a free tutor effect that puts in creatures at instant speed. At the very worst, you can run it with Dreadstill and either use it as Tarmogoyfs 5-8 (in a Ugr build), or use it to flash in a Dreadnought when you have a Stifle in hand and you're not worried about removal to smash for 12. It also color fixes--e.g. after you attack, I'll search my library and flash in a Simian Grunt, except it has lifelink and no echo because it's named Rhox War Monk. It also bypasses any additional restrictions, allowing you to grab stuff like Serra Avenger on turn two, or grabs creatures that are powerful in certain situations that you don't want to run too many of because of the possibility of inconsistency (say, a toolbox that contains allows you to flash in a 12/12 Death's Shadow when you and your opponent are both in the red zone and he's swinging at you for what he thought was lethal). That's to say nothing of circumventing additional costs, although I can't think of anything broken right now.

I think the card would be more powerful than Survival of the Fittest. It's not an "engine" in the same sense, but it's much more tempo oriented--it replaces itself in terms of card advantage and mana investment immediately (unlike Survival which takes 1GG and puts you down one card) and can be played as an instant.

Edit: I think the green card would be run in any green aggro or aggro-deck that can control it, and it would cause decks to splash for green much the same way that they splash for Tarmogoyf now, and moreover, it already fits most decks so well. Canadian Threshold would be able to leave mana open every turn while still being able to play Mongoose or Goyf if necessary. Zoo would be able to grab a beater (Nacatl, Goyf) or utility (Lavamancer or Pridemage or even Bob) as the situation dictated without modifying their manabase at all.

[(nameless one)]

I have a bad feeling the new green version is too powerful.

It's essentially a free tutor effect that puts in creatures at instant speed. At the very worst, you can run it with Dreadstill and either use it as Tarmogoyfs 5-8 (in a Ugr build), or use it to flash in a Dreadnought when you have a Stifle in hand and you're not worried about removal to smash for 12. It also color fixes--e.g. after you attack, I'll search my library and flash in a Simian Grunt, except it has lifelink and no echo because it's named Rhox War Monk. It also bypasses any additional restrictions, allowing you to grab stuff like Serra Avenger on turn two, or grabs creatures that are powerful in certain situations that you don't want to run too many of because of the possibility of inconsistency (say, a toolbox that contains allows you to flash in a 12/12 Death's Shadow when you and your opponent are both in the red zone and he's swinging at you for what he thought was lethal). That's to say nothing of circumventing additional costs, although I can't think of anything broken right now.

I think the card would be more powerful than Survival of the Fittest. It's not an "engine" in the same sense, but it's much more tempo oriented--it replaces itself in terms of card advantage and mana investment immediately (unlike Survival which takes 1GG and puts you down one card) and can be played as an instant.

Edit: I think the green card would be run in any green aggro or aggro-deck that can control it, and it would cause decks to splash for green much the same way that they splash for Tarmogoyf now, and moreover, it already fits most decks so well. Canadian Threshold would be able to leave mana open every turn while still being able to play Mongoose or Goyf if necessary. Zoo would be able to grab a beater (Nacatl, Goyf) or utility (Lavamancer or Pridemage or even Bob) as the situation dictated without modifying their manabase at all.

Would it be too powerful that if it was a real card, it will get banned in Legacy? This was the original idea and people had mixed reactions to it. Some say its balance while some say its too powerful. Would it be better if it searched a green creature?

Also, this was my alternative one on Green

Spend only green mana on X

You may put a creature card with converted mana cost X or less from your hand onto the battlefield.

Would this be less broken or too weak?

[lordofthepit]

Would it be too powerful that if it was a real card, it will get banned in Legacy? This was the original idea and people had mixed reactions to it. Some say its balance while some say its too powerful. Would it be better if it searched a green creature?

Also, this was my alternative one on Green



Would this be less broken or too weak?

I think your original version is too weak, because green usually doesn't want to flash a creature in, especially at the cost of -1 card advantage.

On the other hand, I think your current version is too powerful. I don't think it's too powerful, but instant speed tutoring should come with card disadvantage (see Wordly Tutor) and a tempo setback. This actually increases the tempo. I wouldn't say it's bannable (unless this enables some Flash/Hulk combo by circumventing additional costs or restrictions, which I currently don't see), but I'd say it's on the power level of Survival of the Fittest or Entomb; probably stronger for the decks I'm interested in.

[Anusien]

The White one is lame. Waylay effects aren't cool. And they're sort of blue now anyway.

The blue one is too good. Better than Broken Ambitions, Spell Pierce, Force Spike, etc.

The black and red ones seem fine but a bit unexciting.

The green one seems much better than Chord of Calling.


Start by figuring out what you want to make and why. Explain that and we can help with the rest.

[(nameless one)]

I actually liked the Waylay effect on White Answer althought it was originally a redirection effect. It was deemed weak and the Waylay effect seemed balanced and somehow fitted the color pie.

I am aware that the Blue Answer is better than the cards that you mentioned. Keep in mind though that this cycle is a rare cycle whereas the blue permission spells that you mentioned are all commons.

Any examples on how I should make the Black and Red Answers exciting?

Would Green Answer be less broken if it went to your hand instead of battlefield? Right now, I am sticking with from library to battlefield. Maybe I will change it to make it exclusive to green creatures.

Basically what I am trying to achieve is a cycle of cards that only has X as their casting cost. They are colorless but you can only pay X with colored mana, depending on what color its representing. I want to keep all of them as instants.

[Anusien]

Stuff that just kills attacking creatures isn't all that great. It's traditionally a medium-strength limited only mechanic.

Do you want these to be Constructed worthy? Or just limited bombs?

Also, making a card rare is not an excuse to make other stuff obsolete.

[jrsthethird]

I actually liked the Waylay effect on White Answer althought it was originally a redirection effect. It was deemed weak and the Waylay effect seemed balanced and somehow fitted the color pie.

Waylay seems good.

I am aware that the Blue Answer is better than the cards that you mentioned. Keep in mind though that this cycle is a rare cycle whereas the blue permission spells that you mentioned are all commons.

Quit hinging on the rarity issue.

1. You're designing for a cube, that's it. Unless you have some weird restriction on your cube that says you can only have so many rares, why does it matter?
2. Utility spells are never rare. The only rare counterspells are generally more narrow (Pact of Negation, Nix, Last Word, Mindbreak Trap) and handle niche cases. General counters (Essence Scatter, Negate, Counterspell, Frazzle, Mana Leak) are all common or uncommon.

Maybe you should stop looking for a counterspell and explore other aspects of blue's color pie. -X/-0, bounce, changing land types, stealing cards, Misdirection effects, etc.

What about "Target player mills 5X cards."? 1 mana - Tome Scour, 2 mana - Glimpse the Unthinkable, 3 mana - similar to Mind Funeral, 5 mana - better than Traumatize.

Then maybe you can include a small milling sub-theme in the cube. Or it can be a weird, but powerful, card to help enable grave strategies. If you want a less narrow card, then do something else (I guess this isn't an "answer" per se but I typed it already so I'll throw it out there).

Any examples on how I should make the Black and Red Answers exciting?

-X/-X drain sounds good. If you think it's too weak add "That creature's controller loses X life." Early game removal, late game win condition. Finding BBBBB or more to pump into it should be challenging enough for it to work.

For red maybe you can combine Threaten and Fling:

"Untap target creature with mana cost X or less and gain control of it until end of turn. It gains haste.
At end of turn, you may sacrifice the creature. If you do, it deals damage equal to its power to target creature."

Might be too good to smack your opponent twice with it, so I only let the Fling hit creatures, but it's a pretty nice game changer. The 'if' clause makes it so you don't have to shoot your own creature in case your opponent doesn't have any. Adds a little more depth to the card IMO.

This is too good to be an Instant because red shouldn't have instant-speed combat swingy tricks like this, but again, I typed it so I'm leaving it.

Would Green Answer be less broken if it went to your hand instead of battlefield? Right now, I am sticking with from library to battlefield. Maybe I will change it to make it exclusive to green creatures.

Sure, I don't see any harm in that. Nice combat trick to grab a cheap deathtoucher or something. Being able to get anything seems a little broken though.

[Anusien]

Do they have to be instants? There's a great potential wrath variant if you make it a sorcery. You could make some sort of Commander Teroh like spell that gains you life. That's too close to the proposed blue ability, which I think is cool. If you deny the blue one, consider this:

Exile target creature with converted mana cost X or less. You gain X life.

Otherwise, damage redirection is an awesome one, and very popular now.

The next X damage that a source of your choice would deal to you and/or permanents you control this turn is dealt to target creature or player instead.

It's basically just a Shining Shoal update, but that card is really really good, so... Also, Shoal got a lot better with the M10 rules update.

Blue's milling is a bit too good. The ability to mill 25 for UUUUU is a bit absurd, since that's almost literally game over.
Also, Disrupting Shoal is rare. That cards so much sense, I'd be fine having this be a counter if there isn't anything more exciting. How about an update on Dominate?

Gain control of target creature with converted mana cost less than X. (This effect doesn't end at end of turn.)

The less than X wording is clumsy, but it's not fair to be able to steal their guy the turn they cast it. If you have to untap and take their guy, that's more fine.

Red could get threaten, but that encroachs the blue and the white domain. So instead what about this?

~CARDNAME~ deals X damage to target creature and half X damage, rounded down, to that creature's controller.

Optionally, you could give some sort of similar ability to the black one. You could also have black be a drain, but there are too many here that deal with creatures. I'd like to do something with graveyard removal and give it a minor upside.

Remove X target cards in a graveyard from the game. Add {B} to your mana pool for each creature card removed this way.

Green as an Eladamri's Call is a bit too weak probably. I like Forbiddian's idea of +1/+1 counters. Here's something kind of unique though.

Target creature gets +X/+X and is indestructible until end of turn.

[rufus]

'White' Answer (X)
Instant
Spend only white mana on X.
Put X 2/2 white Angel creature tokens with flying onto the battlefield. Exile them at the beginning of the next cleanup step.

Power level is pretty meh here. Aside from blocking, how is this going to help you win the game.

'Blue' Answer (X)
Instant
Spend only blue mana on X.
Counter target spell unless its controller pays for each mana spent on

Probably overpowered. If WoTC printed it, it would be a contender to see legacy play. Also, you should make it XX, otherwise, someone could spend with 3sphere out, and have it counter for 6.

'Black' Answer (X)
Instant
Spend only black mana on X.
Target creature gets -X/-X until the end of turn. You gain X life.

Power level is OK. Probably not legacy playable.

'Red' Answer (X)
Instant
Spend only red mana on X
~ deals X damage to each creature without flying and each player.

In principle a powerful effect, especially for an instant, but X burn isn't really that potent.

'Green' Answer (X)
Instant
Spend only green mana on X.
Search your library for a creature card with converted mana cost X or less and put that card onto the battlefield. Then shuffle your library.

Grossly overpowered as a combo enabler. Probably a legacy ban and plausibly a vintage restriction just for its ability to pull Dryad Arbor.

[Willoe]

Anusien: Regarding that green indestructible effect... Why would you put an effect that boosts toughness and grants indestructibility on the same card? Just to fight -x/-x? I personally believe that that is a bit lame. But I like the 'indestructible' effect, how about:

X
Intant
Spend only green mana on X.
X target creatures become indestructible until the beginning of the next end step.

Mostly because Anusien's card allows the caster to get an effect by not paying any mana (indestructibility is not reliant of X in your version), allowing any deck to get a free "counter target black removal spell or prevent all damage dealt to target creature this turn".

One could also restrict the green tutor to

X
Instant
Spend only green mana on X.
Search your library for a creature card with converted mana cost, power and toughness no greater than X and put it onto the battlefield. Shuffle your library afterwards.

I don't know if it's worded correctly, but this prevents the card from tutoring up an undercosted beater (unless you pay say 12 to get a Dreanoght, but then it's not that good anyway). However, it's still good at getting utility creatures like True Believer, Sower of Temptation etc. I don't know if it's still too good, but just being an undercosted Chord of Calling seems ridiculous.

[Anusien]

Just making them indestructible isn't all that awesome. The idea was it's a pump spell that marginally prevents a 2 for 1, like Stonewood Invocation or the new RoE auras. Mass indestructibility isn't something I had considered.

Putting three conditions on the tutor is a bit ridiculous. Not sure it's worth the complication.

[Angelfire]

My ideas:

'White' Answer (X)

Instant

Spend only white mana on X.

Put X 1/1 white Soldier creature tokens onto the battlefield. They have First Strike until EOT.

'Blue' Answer (X)

Instant

Spend only blue mana on X.

Draw X cards. Discard a card from your hand.

'Black' Answer (X)

Instant

Spend only black mana on X.

Put X -1/-1 counters on target creature. You gain X life.

'Red' Answer (X)

Instant

Spend only red mana on X

~ deals X damage divided anyway you choose to any number of target creatures and players.

'Green' Answer (X)

Instant

Spend only green mana on X.

Search your library for a Green creature card with converted mana cost X or less and put that card onto the battlefield. Then shuffle your library.

[rufus]

Instant

Spend only green mana on X.

Search your library for a Green creature card with converted mana cost X or less and put that card onto the battlefield. Then shuffle your library.

Dryad Arbor in the deck still makes this into an instamox.

How about something like:

X
Spend only on x
As additional cost to play ~ remove a card with cmc greater than x from your graveyard.
Put x 1/1 creatures on the battlefield.

X
Spend only on x
As an additional cost to play ~ remove a card with cmc greater than x from your graveyard.
Each player draws x cards.

X
Spend only on x
As an additional cost to play ~ remove a card with cmc greater than x from your graveyard.
Sacrifice up to x permanents. If you do, each opponent sacrifices that many permanents.

X
Spend only on x
As an additional cost to play ~ remove a card with cmc greater than x from your graveyard.
Each player player may deal a total of x damage distributed among any number of target creatures or players.

X
Spend only on x
As an additional cost to play ~ remove a card with cmc greater than x from your graveyard.
All creatures get +x/+x until your next upkeep.

[(nameless one)]

Alright...

Right now, what I have noticed with the thread is all over. Some are talking about one color and some are talking about another color.

I will try to 'fix' it by starting with just one color.

I will start on the White Answer

Here are the 3 possible choices:

White Answer 3.1 (X)

Instant

Spend only white mana on X.

The next X damage that would deal to you and/or permanents you control this turn is dealt to target creature or player instead.

Yes, that version could pick any number of sources as long as they have a common target. I wanted to spread the damage out but I am not sure that would be too good.

White Answer 3.2 (X)

Instant

Spend only white mana on X.

Put X 2/2 white Angel creature tokens with flying onto the battlefield. Exile them at the beginning of the next cleanup step.

This is essentially a super Waylay. This basically is a defensive card.

White Answer 3.3 (X)

Instant

Spend only white mana on X.

Put X 1/1 white Soldier creature tokens onto the battlefield. They gain first strike until the end of turn.

Yes, that is exactly what Angelfire has suggested. Instead of being defensive, why not go defensive/aggressive?

So basically, I will be picking one of these three. I am still open to suggestions for the White Answer. I want to concentrate on the White Answer for now. After the White Answer has been picked, there is no turning back.

EDIT:

Dryad Arbor in the deck still makes this into an instamox.

Doesn't Dryad Arbor have summoning sickeness anyways? Anyways, we'll get to that point.

I was thinking about your additional cost. I was actually thinking of doing that but I wanted to make the cycle so that they are versitile early and late game. Having that additional cost means that you cannot really use it early game.

[lordofthepit]

Doesn't Dryad Arbor have summoning sickeness anyways? Anyways, we'll get to that point.

I was thinking about your additional cost. I was actually thinking of doing that but I wanted to make the cycle so that they are versitile early and late game. Having that additional cost means that you cannot really use it early game.

It would. But unrestricted, instant speed Mox Emerald that comes into play tapped (even with a fragile 1/1 body) is still pretty sick. =)

In addition to all the other advantages I mentioned, it's also graveyard filler towards threshold (or Lavamancer fuel, etc.) plus a way to dodge Counterbalance. In some sense, in most decks that can support green, it's pretty much an automatic -4 creatures +4 this card. But it looks like we're changing, so I digress.

I think the white answer v3.3 is a bit too powerful unless you change it into a Waylay type effect. This is pretty much three more creatures than Decree of Justice, with first strike to boot. It doesn't cycle and dodge Standstill and counters, but it's relevant in any phase of the game.

[Anusien]

The risk with tutoring Dryad Arbor up isn't for storm or Mox shenanigans, it's that it's a better Gemstone Caverns

[(nameless one)]

I will address Green Answer later on.

I want to try to concentrate on the White Answer right now.

So its just down to Waylay effect and Harm's Way effect?

[rufus]

I will address Green Answer later on.

I want to try to concentrate on the White Answer right now.

So its just down to Waylay effect and Harm's Way effect?

There's also Eye for an eye:
:X: Instant
~ is white
Spend only on X.
For each of the next X points of damage dealt this turn, ~ deals 2 damage to the damage source's controller.

Here's a funky and powerful card:
:X: Instant
~ is white
Spend only on X.
Counter up to X spells or effects that cause damage or loss of life.

The risk with tutoring Dryad Arbor up isn't for storm or Mox shenanigans, it's that it's a better Gemstone Caverns

Righto. for storm, you'd have to use something Tinder Wall instead.