Hello all,
just spoiled and everyone got the idea to make a Survival of the Fittest build exploiting the new guy. I've made a little set-up which contains a tempo package. So far, it seems pretty underwhelming, perhaps you guys have some suggestions that can improve the list.
4 Vengevine
4 Basking Rootwalla
4 Wild Mongrel
4 Tarmogoyf
1 Squee
1 Wonder
4 Survival of the Fittest
4 Force of Will
4 Circular Logic
4 Daze
4 Brainstorm
4 Stifle
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Polluted Delta
1 Flooded Strand
1 Scalding Tarns
4 Tropical Island
2 Island
1 Forest
4 Wasteland
The main idea is to ditch the Vengevines through the SotF and finally drop 2 Rootwalla's, and Alpha Strike while you may or may not have a Wonder in your graveyard. Still, it seems very SotF-dependable and also a bit mana-intensive.
If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, it's probably delicious.
Team ADHD-To resist is to piss in the wind. Anyone who does will end up smelling.
Costs 2 mana, has summoning sickness, costs mana to activate. The ability is good, yes, but is it good enough? Doesn't seem very tempo-y to me.
If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, it's probably delicious.
Team ADHD-To resist is to piss in the wind. Anyone who does will end up smelling.
- You don't want circular Logic. The only reasonable way to play it is via Mongrel and that is too inconsistent. It also makes you even more vulnerable to Yard hate. Atrocious card choice.
- You don't want the Stifle/Wasteland package. You need all the Mana and creatures you can get to get the engine going and should not use disruption, only protection and search. This gives you some free slots to play with.
- Noble Hierarch is certainly a 4-of in this type of deck, awesome overall, good synergy with Survival, good synergy with Vengevine
So what do you think? No more tempo, go for a bit more control? With Hierarchs, may as well go for a white splash? Something like this? The problem with the deck now is that the blue count is way too low to support Force of Will.
4 Vengevine
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Basking Rootwalla
3 Wild Mongrel
4 Tarmogoyf
1 Squee
1 Loyal Retainers
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
4 Survival of the Fittest
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Brainstorm
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Flooded Strand
4 Tropical Island
4 Tundra
1 Island
1 Forest
1 Plains
Edit: the more I think about it, the more I think the deck is likely to fail.
If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, it's probably delicious.
Team ADHD-To resist is to piss in the wind. Anyone who does will end up smelling.
No dredge? Life from the Loam/Stinkweed Imp+Terramorphic Expanse/Haakon, Stromgald Scourgeand Bloodghast is probably too cute, even with Intuition and/or Buried Alive. Standstill is probably not entirely terrible either.
Dredge was the original idea to get them into the yard, but playing 'normal' dredge would be much more effective than this strategy, besides, using Survival and Madness should be alot easier and consistent.
If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, it's probably delicious.
Team ADHD-To resist is to piss in the wind. Anyone who does will end up smelling.
How about shrieking Drake?.
It can Bounce itself, so you don't need 2 rootwallas.
If there is such a thing as too much power, I have not discovered it.” —Volrath
Founding father of Team Moosebite, the team that really bites.
Vengevine is too aggro-esque to throw it into a control build. I'd build it completely differently. Btw Waterfront Bouncer is an auto-include. If I'm correct, you can discard Rootwalla as an additional cost, then play it for 0, then bounce it, then play it for G. That would trigger Vengevine.
Last edited by Vacrix; 04-21-2010 at 02:22 AM.
Tao is right about the Stifle/Waste package being out of place. The absence of that package makes Daze obsolete, which I don't like here for the same reason, I advise against the former.
The white version (=STP) could support Spell Pierce in its place: charging 2 extra for 1 mana is much better than charging 1 extra plus having to return a land (even if it's free).
That being said, I do like your list a lot.
Here's a potential SB:
2 Gaddock
1 Canonist
3 Grip
1 Trygon Predator
3 Faerie Macabre
2 Path to Exile
1 Warmonk
1 Genesis
1 Spore Frog
-
Oh and I'd definitely go -1 Vengevine +1 Pridemage - you do want to have at least one MD out to Jitte/Moat and the likes.
Basking Rootwalla->Ornithopter/Phyrexian Walker/Kobold... is more mana efficient. Having some 0-cc critter in the deck means you can pull an extra Vengevine which seems like a good thing. Note that you only have to play the critters...Originally Posted by Volrath
It seems really want to ramp up yourproduction to go off since leaving SotF on the table is a bad idea. Idealy you'd get to
If you can get it on the table Greater Good can be a sickeningly fast way to populate the graveyard, but I'm not sure how good Inner-Flame Acolyte, Briarhorn, and such are without it.
Yes but it is never worth it. Trust me I've tried to break this one so much it hurts, but Goyf is always going to beat madness.
Rootwallas with Survival, on the other hand, are very good. I am interested in Vengevine now. Fun mechanic.
how about a red splash for anger and orcish slumberjack? it can be a perfect thing to accelerate this decks alongside of hierarch...
Yeah, but if you play the Drake you don't need to play multiple rootwallas or crappy 0cmc critters, only one drake.Basking Rootwalla->Ornithopter/Phyrexian Walker/Kobold... is more mana efficient. Having some 0-cc critter in the deck means you can pull an extra Vengevine which seems like a good thing. Note that you only have to play the critters...
It seems really want to ramp up your
If you can get it on the table Greater Good can be a sickeningly fast way to populate the graveyard, but I'm not sure how good Inner-Flame Acolyte, Briarhorn, and such are without it.
If there is such a thing as too much power, I have not discovered it.” —Volrath
Founding father of Team Moosebite, the team that really bites.
I started doing that, then I took the Survival out, then took the blue out. Heh. Here's a rough list of a RG Madness deck with Vengevine.
// Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)
// NAME: RG Madness
// COMMENT: Legacy RG deck
// AUTHOR: Carlos Hoyos (DrJones)
4 Taiga
1 Mountain
1 Forest
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Windswept Heath
2 Pendelhaven
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Wild Mongrel
4 Basking Rootwalla
4 Kird Ape
3 Orcish Lumberjack
3 Grim Lavamancer
3 Vengevine
4 Reckless Charge
4 Fiery Temper
4 Lightning Axe
3 Life from the Loam
3 Firestorm
Seems good but still lacking. Survival and Lumberjack allows for the combo with Demigod of Revenge which looks better than Rootwalla + Vengevine, but I prefer not having to depend on drawing lumberjack. Lightning Axe is a tech card that people should definitely play more because it obliterates opposing Goyf, and Firestorm is also pretty good too. Pity I had to take out the Rancor and Hidden Stag to make room for other cards. I also like the interaction betwee Dryad Arbor and Reckless Charge. Too bad they don't activate Vengevine.
I'll give later another try at a U/G list with Survival of the Fittest, it's a bit bad that the madness creatures are so weak in this meta. :-/
EDIT: How I could forget to include Anger in that list? Any idea of what to take out?
My good sir, you seem to be forgetting one of the sickest combos you can use in a Survival deck: Spore Frog and Genesis. Not only that, Frog costs 1 which helps with Vine, and Genesis can bring back other crap to your hand, which is also potentially good with Vengevine.
Maybe not for this deck, but I'd like to toss an idea into the thread. How about some cantrip dudes like Elvish Visionary or Wall of Blossoms? They help you find Survival and can buy time vs aggro.
Several years back I used to run this deck, strictly for casual-only games though:
7 Forest
6 Mountain
4 Wooded Foothills
3 Taiga
4 Orcish Lumberjack
4 Basking Rootwalla
4 Kird Ape
4 Wild Mongrel
4 Phantom Centaur
4 Arrogant Wurm
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Violent Eruption
4 Fireblast
3 Cursed Scroll
1 Umezawa's Jitte
The deck was slow, so most of the time you had to sandbag a lot of resources in preparation for when the other side equalized. Although the deck did have some pretty epic moments - if you found an opening and with the right madness cards, you could deal 10-15 damage in a turn. That was possible because of the high density of madness cards, which conveniently cost enough to match the Orc. Vengevine could replace the Centaurs I think, and maybe Tarmo can sub for the artifacts.
I still cling to the hope that one day this will become tournament-worthy... sigh T_T
Another option not considered is the black option with cards like Smallpox. Black gives access to creature control Madness effects like Big Game Hunter and Dark Withering. Of course, that could also be run with a discard package.
Who says the Internet isn't full of <3?
Just found this thread:
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?3211-[Deck]-ber-Madness
It's about previous attempts to work with Madness, could be useful.
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