No, the list above didn't sideboard NO+Pro. This is the sideboard that list use:
Sideboard (15)
3 Imperious Perfect
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
1 Ranger of Eos
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Heap Doll
1 Loaming Shaman
1 Dauntless Escort
1 Gaddock Teeg
4 Thoughtseize
I want to comment the Dauntless Escort... What do you think about this card on elves list (obviously in sideboard)? Not only combo elves, also aggro elves...
It seems like a decent answer to Engineered Explosives/Perish...but at 3 mana (and only 1 in the board) is it fast enough on the battlefield to make a difference? Three mana isn't a problem for elves to come up with, so I suppose it would get down turn 2 often enough to count.
I like the sideboarded Thoughtsiezes A LOT BETTER than Escort, and Gaddok Teeg takes care of Explosives.
*virtual shrug* There has to be a better option than a 3-drop creature, but I'm drawing a blank ATM.
And maybe will be a loss of time including City of Solitude in the SB? Three mana wouldn't be a problem to cast. Obvious than if we don't combo the same turn we cast City, the opponent is free to do in their turn whatever he want without reply, but it's a solution when we want to protect a elf we have in the hand ready to come into play and we need him to survive (or, for example, can help in a turn the opponent have a Stifle for our Glimpse but he haven't a counter).
What boggles my mind is that the guy using Mirror Entity wasn't using teck to untap after glimpse-ing. I have found that glimpse eats up ALL of your elves to tap for mana.
I toyed with To Arms! for a little while, running it alongside Mirror Entity. Untap all your dudes, draw a card for 1W, Mirror Entity alpha-strike FTW.
If you are thinking of running city of solitude, I think leyline of lifeforce is strictly better. Sure, it's one more mana, but the point is obviously to start with it on the field. City can be countered, which makes it less effective. Leyline is very hard for control to deal with, especially if you board out glimpses and but it in and go aggro.
You def do not want to play non-creature spells that untap your guys. They slow down the combo and don't really help that much anyway. When you have 4 quirion ranger and 4 symbiote, and 4 nettle, you shouldn't have any problems with tapping out.
I appreciate your point of view of Leyline vs City and I agree with all, but I see an extra utility in City which is it covers not only for counters, it covers you at all: if you begin to combo, your only limit are you and your deck, neither your rival in your turn. I think in some specific metagame would be better to have one.
About untapping elves I agree at all, is not necessary to include something to untap, but if is that what you want, best to have it in green than in white, also, in the specific situation he wants to untap the elves, draw a card would be counterproductive becase there are serious chances to spend the whole deck, and a Fog effect will ruin us. These concrete card is an example why I like to play City of Solitude instead Leyline, also having 2-3 City of Solitude is enough, but with Leyline you must include 4 to try to assure you initialy draw Leyline and begin the game with him, so a hand with more than one Leyline is more probable, a nasty chance.
I think it's all about metagame questions... If the metagame is plagued with control decks and/or with decks with denial, I suppose your option with Leylines is the best. But if we live in an environment with a lot of mass removal City is the solution. Top also lets you to get concrete cards you need (Glimpse, creature tutor, Symbiote, etc), but we only see three cards, and if no one of three likes us we need some shuffle effect like fetchlands (or using our creature's tutors) to shuffle and view three "new" cards the next turn... I suppose Enlightened tutor to be the most direct way to have City, but it only would be a good option if we have more things to tutor with it (i.e. Lightning Greaves). I think that option uses too much slots. In Enchantress, the search engine is Sterling Grove, but we don't have any other enchantments to search. The only way for this to be viable is change the kill card for an enchantment if we're going to tutor with Sterling or for an artifact if we're going to tutor with Enlightened. Goblin Bombardment wouldn't be a bad chance, also let attack and after assigning damage, sacrifice blocked elves to the other player's head, but we're in the same: without City we're helpless to a Fog/Prevention effect. Also if we want to include Enlightened Tutor we can include Staff of domination which help us to untap all our elves, but it's another card slot and don't kill himself.
Forget about Transmute (I've posted before with that idea, then now I'm editing it) because the converted mana cost of the card to search must coincide with the converted mana cost of the card with Transmute. Then only Perplex (or Dimir Machinations, useless for this deck even like SB), for example can help to find the City. So, would be the best option Have 2 - 3 City + Demonic Tutor + Vampiric Tutor? Even Diabolic Intent would be better, put the card in hand at the cost of 1B and sac a creature...
Last edited by abel_lg; 11-26-2010 at 05:55 AM.
Abel: When I said top I meant how does city help us against countertop haha.
Played this list on MTGO last nite to a 3-1 finish.
8 Forest
3 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Birchlore Rangers
2 Elvish Archdruid
4 Elvish Visionary
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Eternal Witness
4 Fyndhorn Elves
4 Heritage Druid
1 Joraga Warcaller
3 Llanowar Elves
4 Nettle Sentinel
3 Priest of Titania
1 Quirion Ranger
1 Regal Force
1 Viridian Shaman
3 Wirewood Symbiote
4 Glimpse of Nature
4 Summoner's Pact
Sideboard
4 Faerie Macabre
2 Krosan Grip
3 Leyline of Lifeforce
4 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Viridian Shaman
Round 1: Rbg Goblins (2-0)
Combo off turn 2 Game 1, and turn 3 Game 2 after he cast Perish.
Round 2: UW/g Landstill (2-0)
Long games every single one. I boarded out Glimpses for the 2nd game for Leylines. Also bought in Thorns and they helped to tax my opponent. 4 mana Brainstorms don't seem so hot! :D
Round 3: Naya Sligh (0-2)
Game 1, burn your dudes.
Game 2, burn your dudes with Ethersworn Canonist out.
There's really no way to beat this deck unless you play Absolute Law.
Round 4: UGr Countertop with Firespout (2-1)
Game 1, attack with elves after a fizzle and try not to lose to Firespout
Game 2, lose to Summoner's Pact after Firespout
Game 3, Jace active on the board, Emrakul in hand; he lets me keep a Priest of Titania and lets me untap with it. I make exactly 15 mana and he scoops. MISE!
The online metagame:
Countertop, Zoo, Affinity. There is no Survival/VV decks since they cost infy, but arguably I have a good matchup against them. I would play Survival of the Fittest in the deck if I owned them online (still).
Last edited by Koby; 11-28-2010 at 06:01 PM. Reason: Clarify endnotes
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Hey ruckus,
When you said you'd play Survival online, did you mean the card on this deck or Vengevine-Survival deck?
I remember your old list had SotF. If you were talking about that version, would Fauna Shaman be a good alternative for that?
I mean the card, not the Vengevine. Fauna Shaman is good in the Survival build, but too slow for versions that utilize Birchlore Ranger and 4 Summoner's Pact.
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Find me on MTGO as Koby or rukcus -- @MTGKoby on Twitter
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I've said it before, but not on this forum: I don't like aggro as a main win condition for elves. I think there are just way too many answers that hit the board before you can get there. The whole reason for even suggesting an untap effect was so Mirror Entity could beef up the dudes that don't have summoning sickness THE SAME TURN so you can alpha strike FTW. Now, if those dudes are tapped down to provide mana for the Glimpse engine, they aren't capable of attacking (except maybe Nettle Sentinel)
I saw a guy post that he went 0-2 against naya sligh (I'm assuming it was a stock zoo list). This matchup isn't as bad if you can win in one turn with Grapeshot/Emrakul (Emrakul getting on the table...takes 2-3 turns to actually win. Luckily you get one right away...) This is the only way I feel Elves can work, and that's by using a combo win. An aggro win is a win nonetheless, but it's an alternative win. If you're banking on an aggro win every game, you're going to have a tough time IMHO. I'd rather just win with Grapeshot on turn 2-4.
Last edited by Mr. Safety; 11-29-2010 at 09:24 AM. Reason: missed something...
I probably would not have played Fauna Shaman in that build. Being able to use SotF repeatedly on the same turn is the crux of its addition. Fauna Shaman is better in Aggro Elves as he's perfect for finding the best creature in your deck for the turn. SotF in this deck functions as a repeatable tutor.
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Find me on MTGO as Koby or rukcus -- @MTGKoby on Twitter
* Maverick is dead. Long live Maverick!
My Legacy stream
My MTG Blog - Work in progress
West side
Find me on MTGO as Koby or rukcus -- @MTGKoby on Twitter
* Maverick is dead. Long live Maverick!
My Legacy stream
My MTG Blog - Work in progress
Ruckus- we seem to be going for similar builds. Few things:
Do you think the priests are worth it?
Why not 4 rangers? They save my ass quite frequently.
I tend to go for more one drops instead of priests/archdruids since they are more vulnerable to spot removal if you concentrate the mana production in fewer creatures. Benefits of priests over druids? I have rarely ever been able to cast a priest without a druid.
Is it worth it to have shaman in main?
What are your main witness targets (I would imagine glimpse but are there others)?
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