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Thread: [Deck] Elves Combo

  1. #1521
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    TheInfamousBearAssassin's Avatar
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    Re: [Deck] Elves Combo

    I don't think Misstep itself will destroy the deck, but if the biggest deck post-shakeup is Zoo with Missteps, Lavamancers and plenty of removal, and more relevant hate in the side, things become problematic.
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  2. #1522

    Re: [Deck] Elves Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by bakofried View Post
    Oh, bullshit. It's a 1-for-1 counter, it's not going to destroy the deck. Vary your gameplan. Hell, play GSZ.
    Did you honestly just dismiss a zero mana counter that counters 30ish cards in our deck on the basis of it being a 1 for 1? If so, FoW wants to say hello and smack you in the face.

  3. #1523
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    Re: [Deck] Elves Combo

    As long as it doesn't counter Priests, Archdruids, Zeniths or Wishes (or for that matter, Pact) I don't think it's going to be gamebreaking by itself. You should be able to win without resolving Glimpse. It's in conjunction with plenty of removal that I get worried.
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  4. #1524
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    Re: [Deck] Elves Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by NihilObstat View Post
    Could you please write without completely wrecking this thread up.

    First. DO NOT DOUBLE POST when you quote. Click on "Reply with quote" and copy (Ctrl+C) the Quotation, do this as many times as you want, but paste them all in 1 single post. I am not going to read the last 8 pages of the thread just because of this annoying, annoying writing.

    Then. Get yourself a shorter signature, if you are going to post SO MUCH, please. It is annoying to see that huge signature 15 times per page.

    If you don't do this I'll have to report you. I will erase this message tomorrow.

    Thank you!
    1) I haven't doubled posted, and no.

    2) No.

    3) I don't care because I'm not breaking any forum rules. Chill the fuck out.

    4) Go to forum settings. Thread display options; uncheck, "Show signatures."

    5) Chill the fuck out.
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  5. #1525
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    Re: [Deck] Elves Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by TheInfamousBearAssassin View Post
    1) I haven't doubled posted, and no.

    2) No.

    3) I don't care because I'm not breaking any forum rules. Chill the fuck out.

    4) Go to forum settings. Thread display options; uncheck, "Show signatures."

    5) Chill the fuck out.
    Page 74 you double posted two different quotes...

    Edit: I'm not exactly agreeing with Nihil but just wanted to point it out that he was right on that particular thing.
    Oooooops I forgot to pay for my Summoner's Pact upkeep cost . Edit undo

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    Re: [Deck] Elves Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by Neil View Post
    Page 74 you double posted two different quotes...
    Oh, you're right.

    Still seems a retarded thing to get upset about.

    If scrolling through pages bothers people that much, they should also change their settings to display 40 posts a page.
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  7. #1527
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    Re: [Deck] Elves Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by bakofried View Post
    Oh, bullshit. It's a 1-for-1 counter, it's not going to destroy the deck. Vary your gameplan. Hell, play GSZ.
    Do'h. I was being terse and ended up confusing.

    I don't see Reanimator being viable once Mental Misstep enters the format. Relying on resolving Entomb/Careful Study/Personal Tutor then Reanimate seems very unlikely in the coming weeks with as much hype as MM is receiving. That leads me to believe that facing a Reanimator deck with Iona to be slim. Hence, I do not fret about how to deal with Iona.

    Case in point: Reanimator is a wash, and I won't dedicate SB space against it.
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  8. #1528
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    Re: [Deck] Elves Combo

    No, I was saying that Misstep won't destroy this deck. It a counterspell. Play through it. Bait it if you have to. It's a really good card, it's going to impact the format, and I'm shoving 4 of them into my 'Folk deck, but it's just a counterspell. Admittedly, if it's played in traditional Zoo, with Lavamancer and company, then I'll just chalk that one up as unwinnable. But does this card invalidate the deck? Hell no.

    EDIT:
    HA! I confused myself. Okay, so you're arguing that Misstep invalidates Reanimator? That, I can see, as that deck is barely clinging to life now. Sorry for the upset. But I still think my above point stands, for any naysayers.

    @Atikin
    Can you play through Force? If so, you can play through Misstep.
    Quote Originally Posted by ktkenshinx View Post
    The Reserved List is a) not legally binding, b) antiquated, c) broken, and d) preventative of maximum game enjoyment. Wizards will remove as many cards from that list as possible to increase the fun of their game. Using market research, they can find a balance between printing enough cards to lower a price from $40 to $15-$20, and not utterly ruining their value. This will be both an economically feasible AND sensible move.
    -ktkenshinx-

  9. #1529

    Re: [Deck] Elves Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by bakofried View Post
    No, I was saying that Misstep won't destroy this deck. It a counterspell. Play through it. Bait it if you have to. It's a really good card, it's going to impact the format, and I'm shoving 4 of them into my 'Folk deck, but it's just a counterspell. Admittedly, if it's played in traditional Zoo, with Lavamancer and company, then I'll just chalk that one up as unwinnable. But does this card invalidate the deck? Hell no.

    EDIT:
    HA! I confused myself. Okay, so you're arguing that Misstep invalidates Reanimator? That, I can see, as that deck is barely clinging to life now. Sorry for the upset. But I still think my above point stands, for any naysayers.

    @Atikin
    Can you play through Force? If so, you can play through Misstep.
    Can you play through 2 force? If not, then you cant play through a force and a misstep. But anyways, this is null since we're apparently all arguing about different things haha.

  10. #1530
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    Re: [Deck] Elves Combo

    Baiting only works if there's critical mass of threats. It is highly dependent on the situation too, but for the most part I see GSZ being better in situations where an attrition game is required versus glass cannon approach. I still see the benefit for Pact for tight situations, and having run a few MTGO matches (Dailies and 2mans) with only 1 Pact, I decided that 2 is a better fit in place of the 3rd Archdruid.

    Right now, I'm using a mixture of tutors with great effect:

    3 GSZ
    3 Living Wish
    2 Summoner's Pact

    I don't see the need for the 4th Wish, as it's usually only critical to have once you combo off. A note about GSZ that I do like is especially cycling through them to fetch out Elvish Visionary. This not only replaces GSZ with another card (ala Pact), but also buys you time. I tried out this tactic against RUG non-CB and seeing that I was getting no resistance on GSZ went for the combo once Lavamancer became gimped. It is not uncommon to tutor out Symbiote with GSZ to continue the Glimpse chains too, as Nihil mentioned.
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  11. #1531
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    Re: [Deck] Elves Combo

    I use the Wishes at all stages in the game. Whether I need to gimp a combo (nabbing Faerie Macabre vs. GY decks, or Revoker for Storm) need to set up by grabbing a half of the mana engine, or I need to seal the deal. I acknowledge that IBA's list is slower, but it seems so much more resilient.
    Quote Originally Posted by ktkenshinx View Post
    The Reserved List is a) not legally binding, b) antiquated, c) broken, and d) preventative of maximum game enjoyment. Wizards will remove as many cards from that list as possible to increase the fun of their game. Using market research, they can find a balance between printing enough cards to lower a price from $40 to $15-$20, and not utterly ruining their value. This will be both an economically feasible AND sensible move.
    -ktkenshinx-

  12. #1532
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    Re: [Deck] Elves Combo

    Note critical versus useful. I've used Wish many times to find an early Cradle (usually is the case too). Oftentimes this is the bait. It's obvious that a double Glimpse hand is easily setup for baiting too, especially when you play mind games and talk about how your deck is capable of hyper explosive turns :P
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  13. #1533
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    Re: [Deck] Elves Combo

    Well...it is. But they don't need to know if I have a slow roll hand or not. I feel like Glimpses are Hymns sometimes - especially if I don't need them and I'm taking the priest+untap effects route.
    Quote Originally Posted by ktkenshinx View Post
    The Reserved List is a) not legally binding, b) antiquated, c) broken, and d) preventative of maximum game enjoyment. Wizards will remove as many cards from that list as possible to increase the fun of their game. Using market research, they can find a balance between printing enough cards to lower a price from $40 to $15-$20, and not utterly ruining their value. This will be both an economically feasible AND sensible move.
    -ktkenshinx-

  14. #1534

    Re: [Deck] Elves Combo

    k2 or anyone else have a good list with pact and/or GSZ, im rly not a big fan of living wish or any wishes rly as i prefer to have a real sideboard

  15. #1535

    Re: [Deck] Elves Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by gypsy View Post
    k2 or anyone else have a good list with pact and/or GSZ, im rly not a big fan of living wish or any wishes rly as i prefer to have a real sideboard
    My non-wish is posted a few pages back, but you basically just replace the wishes with the 4th fyndhorn, another land, and emrakul

  16. #1536
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    Re: [Deck] Elves Combo

    K2thej, what do you think about Misstep? I think it wrecks this deck. I know, we talked about lot how resiliet it is, but this gives your opponent big tempo boost and blue has finaly one card answer to glimpse.

  17. #1537
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    Re: [Deck] Elves Combo

    So far I only heard people saying Mental Misstep is no option for elves. Reasons given were:

    - No synergies with the deck
    What other synergy does protection/disruption need except for being protection/disruption.
    Why do you think it has more synergies in other aggro decks (as discussed in MM thread it is a good card for Zoo or other tribals)

    - Does not solve Elve Problems
    …I just cannot understand that at all. SD.top in CB/top is a huge problem. We side in Grip for that.
    I don’t know how many times a bolt/swords/thoughtseize set me back and of course we know storm is about a turn faster and interacts more.

    IBA, especially your build which is stronger aggro/less combo could use it…
    Her are some quotes of IBA from the MM thread. I would appreciate if you could specify why the things you said do not apply to elves.

    Quote Originally Posted by IBA
    I agree that this card will probably have a large impact, although I think it's highly unlikely that that will help blue. On the contrary, blue loses a lot of its attractiveness if fast aggro decks like Zoo can cripple combo decks fairly reliably, even if only out of the board.”
    Why is it great for Zoo but not for the elve aggro plan?

    Quote Originally Posted by IBA
    Mental Misstep is an absolutely terrible card if all you can do with it is counter Vials so you can counter other stuff later. Where it shines is in an aggro deck that wants to nerf combo and the most common removal spell in the format at the same time, with most other considerations being secondary.”
    You don’t want to nerf combo and most common removal spell in the format playing elves?

    Quote Originally Posted by IBA
    A card that is useful in most matchups and gives a deck game against its worst matchups has more value than a card that is useful in most matchups but doesn't help the worst matchups. As such, Mental Misstep reaches its peak value in any deck that has problems with combo, i.e., isn't blue and probably isn't heavily into black and thus lacks spell/hand disruption. It's in the nature of the card to be at a premium during the early game, so it also favors play in decks that only want to see the early game. As it's not good against much of the most played disruption in the format, Force, Daze, Wasteland, and Hymn, it's not great protection.
    - I think MM gives us game vs. worst matchups burn/zoo/counter top/landstill/combo, but also useful in others.
    - Problems with combo...
    - lack of black -> disruption
    - premium in early game: (elves like T1-T4)

    Thanks in advance.

  18. #1538

    Re: [Deck] Elves Combo

    I think that MM will be heavily played for starters. But time will tell if it stays present in certain decks. For elves I do think that MM could have his place in the SB. It will certainly improve our MU against fast combo.
    Considering the quote that it wrecks the deck. I do not believe it will. It is a great force that we will have to take in account, but then again, so is FoW. And it's not as if you're entire plan falls to crumble if one of our elves is countered or even worse, if they counter glimpse. I do think that we will need to rely less on glimpse.

  19. #1539

    Re: [Deck] Elves Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by Koplinchen View Post
    K2thej, what do you think about Misstep? I think it wrecks this deck. I know, we talked about lot how resiliet it is, but this gives your opponent big tempo boost and blue has finaly one card answer to glimpse.
    I think it is essentially another fow against us, since it hits most of the deck.

    It's not good, but I think the shusher's in the board take care of it though. We've played around FOW, CB, etc. We'll be fine.

    Edit: Yes, shushers. I now am a huge proponent of shushers over Leyline. Thank you Ruckus for switching me over like a month or so ago. They really are better.

  20. #1540
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    Re: [Deck] Elves Combo

    While Misstep hits a lot of cards in the deck, it doesn't hit most of the best cards (Priests, Archdruids, Wish, GSZ) except for Glimpse itself. It definitely hurts the deck, but it depends what shell it's in. Zoo might've just become unwinnable is the biggest problem I can foresee.

    @Catmint:

    While countering Lavamancer or Top would be nice, most of the other problems the deck cares about don't get solved with Misstep (Jitte, Firespout, Humility, Damnation, Deed, EE, etc..), and the deck has an unusually high premium on synergy.
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