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Thread: [Deck] Day of Disease

  1. #1
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    [Deck] Day of Disease

    General Idea

    When the spoiling for Futuresight began a few years ago, I was looking through the spoiler an discovered 2 very nice cards I immediatly thought of as awesome as hell: Nihilith and Tombstalker
    Well, I preordered both, and started to build a (at that time Extended) deck around both of them, still only able to play and test on MWS.
    The core idea was to use a crapload of discard to empty your opponents hand, preferable with a suspended Nihilith, to get either a quick Nihilith or a quick Stalker on the field, and kill the opponent before he recovers.
    Smallpox was added due to its ability to feed both Nihilith and Stalker, while basically destroying a turns worth of cards.
    For further reading the original post from me on salvation: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=76081
    (still quite arrogant at that time^^)

    When the whole fancy stuff in Extended rotated out, I decided to try to port it to Legacy, where the idea was to play a little bit more consevative cards (like Smother instead of Innocent Blood) with a greensplash for the beloved Goyf and a higher focus on mana denial (Sinkhole).
    The splash also enabled some good Sideboardcards, like Krosan Krosan Grip.
    The List at that time:

    // Lands
    6 [UNH] Swamp
    3 [ON] Bloodstained Mire
    4 [TE] Wasteland
    3 [ON] Polluted Delta
    4 [B] Bayou

    // Creatures
    4 [FUT] Tombstalker
    4 [FUT] Nihilith
    4 [FUT] Street Wraith
    4 [FUT] Tarmogoyf

    // Spells
    4 [TSP] Smallpox
    4 [MR] Chrome Mox
    4 [FE] Hymn to Tourach
    4 [US] Duress
    4 [B] Sinkhole
    4 [ON] Smother

    // Sideboard
    SB: 4 [PLC] Extirpate
    SB: 4 [SOK] Pithing Needle
    SB: 4 [TSP] Krosan Grip
    SB: 3 [MM] Snuff Out

    It performed quite well, so I decided to build it (altough I've never been to a Legacy tournament nor expected to attend one in near future)
    As I owned almost not a single card playable in Legacy, I decided to drop the splash and add Pox.
    I rebuilt the deck from the basis of Nihilith, Tombstalker, Smallpox and now Pox with additional changes to support the Pox plan.
    The deck performed OK, but I was still not satified running just 8 real winconditions.
    But then Zendikar was released and this nice little fellow came along:


    So I made the current list:

    // Lands
    10 [UNH] Swamp
    3 [ZEN] Verdant Catacombs
    4 [TE] Wasteland
    3 [ON] Polluted Delta

    // Creatures
    4 [FUT] Tombstalker
    4 [FUT] Nihilith
    4 [ZEN] Bloodghast

    // Spells
    4 [TSP] Smallpox
    4 [MR] Chrome Mox
    4 [IA] Pox
    4 [OD] Innocent Blood
    4 [FE] Hymn to Tourach
    4 [B] Sinkhole
    4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top

    // Sideboard
    SB: 4 [PLC] Extirpate
    SB: 3 [DK] Tormod's Crypt
    SB: 4 [US] Duress
    SB: 4 [ON] Smother



    Cardchoices
    Tombstalker
    Well, the beater #1 in this deck. It feeds from your graveyard, getting cheaper for the thing this deck does: blowing things up
    Well, there has been said enough for Stalkers sake, so I think no further comment is needed.

    Nihilith
    The beater #2 of this deck.
    While it seems like a real bad card, it usually does what it's supposed to to: Get fast on the field, and deal evasive damage.
    Altough it's not a great topdeck, nor that good in matchups where you need you destroy something asap, he'll still is incredible fast.
    In a format filled with Fetchlands and Cantrips, it's even without additional cards pretty fast on the field (altough you might want to ensure it doesn't get Plowed/Countered/Stifled/whatever'd)
    It's also immune to Counterbalance.

    Bloodghast
    And finally the last beater.
    It doesn't seem THAT good, but it clearly is.
    Usually gets discarded to Pox and Smallpox, comes always back, protects Nihilith and Stalker from Smallpox, Pox and Innocent Blood, and post Pox swarms around any defense left.
    It's hard to imagine, but that card just wins more games than Stalker or Nihilith.

    Smallpox
    Well, it is one of the stars in this deck: It kills creatures, destroys lands, forces to discard, removes 3 counters from Nihilith and makes your Stalkers 3 mana cheaper.
    Also get's rid of any unpleasent creatures like Progenitus, Emrakul and other fatties.

    Chrome Mox
    Well, having more mana available post Pox is always good.
    The card disadvantage is hardly an argument against it.

    Pox
    Probably the most powerful card in the deck.
    It works the same way as Smallpox, but additionally ensures that you need less attacks to kill.

    Innocent Blood
    CMC1 removal that doesn't target and is mostly one-sided.

    Hymn to Tourach
    Disruption, -2 counter for Nihilith, enough said

    Sensei's Divining Top
    Ensures you get the cards you need while in topdeck mode.
    Usually there to dig for gas. Also quite solid with fetchlands.
    Because you empty your hand quite fast, always having one is really the thing you want, and multiples get either discarded or shuffled back.
    Usually the first card to get borded out.

    Metagame Slot
    Sinkhole
    If you expect more creatures, replace this slot with removal, when facing combo Thoughtseize/[CARDSDuress[/CARDS]

    Sideboard
    The Sideboard really depends on your Meta, but generally I'd suggest
    Graveyardhate:
    Extirpate and/or Tormod's Crypt

    Additional discard (hoping to slow Combo)
    Duress and/or Thoughtseize

    and depending what you expect
    Additional spotremoval (Smother/Deathmark, Snuff Out)
    Sweepers (Perish/Infest/Engineered Plague)
    or whatever else might help against decks you expect

    ==============================================================
    Day of Disease

    Born to Kill - Match Analysis

    ==============================================================

    Zoo
    This matchup really depends if you are able to get rid of their first tur drop.
    If you manage that in time, you should be able to destroy their manabase before they burn you out.
    Generally you should be able to remove anything dangerous and kill them in time.
    In this matchup you really want an early Smallpox or Pox (Smallpox first turn on the draw if possible, and Pox asap)
    Playing Pox may actually kill you, so you shouldn't play it if Zoo has more than 2 lands.
    If you run additional removal, get them for G2 and 3
    I wont give you totally utopical percentages, but I'd say the overall Matchup is
    FAVORABLE

    Merfolk
    This is actually kinda hard.
    The only valid targets for Wasteland are Mutavaults or their Wastelands, unless they splash.
    Whatever they splash, we are happy about it.
    The key here is keeping the Lords off the Table and don't get your important Spells countered.
    Resolving an early Hymn or Smallpox/Pox usually is the most important goal, ensuring they can't swarm.
    If you don't, you generally get overwhelmed by vast amounts of fish.
    Board removal
    EVEN

    Counter-Top Bant / Threshold in whatever Colorcombination
    Here DoD really shines.
    You just have craploads of Must-Counters, and you generally have more brutal plays than them.
    Usually you should be able to either keep them off UU, or just ignore Counterbalance and play Stalkers/Nihilith.
    DoD is pretty much designed to win that match, so I'll say
    FAVOURABLE

    Storm Combo
    Meh.
    No really.
    It's really about having Hymns and pressure or not.
    If you have, you might be able to win, but that isn't sure either.
    if you manage to chain Hymns, Duress/Thoughtseize and Poxes, you have a solid chance of winning.
    Board in whatever you have, and hope you have a Mox in your hand.
    UNFAVORABLE

    Death and Taxes / other White Weenie
    Well, should be easy.
    Destroy their lands, kill their creatures, let them discard a bunch is the way of winning.
    Luckily DoD does all the same time.
    Try to not get your Creatures removed, and you should win with ease.
    VERY FAVORABLE

    Burn
    Totally unwinnable.
    Seriously; unless they get manascrewed and you have a good combination of Hymns and Smallpox, you're screwed.
    Unless you run 8 additional discarders in your Sideboard, you are also pretty much f***ed G2 and G3.
    VERY UNFAVORALE

    Landstill
    Let DoD do whatever it does, but meanwhile try to keep Factories off the table and win via Bloodghast.
    Whatever you board in, it shouldn't matter much, you'll probably winn unless you either screw it up or you have real bad luck.
    FAVORABLE

    Vengevine Survival
    Well, it's a coinflip if you win G1, but G2 and G3 should be yours if you are running 4 Extirpate in your Sideboard.
    If they play Waterfront Bouncer, you should first get rid of it, then whatever's left.
    EVEN- SLIGHTLY UNFAVORABLE

    Random Kiddies
    Suspend Nihilith, play Pox, discard Bloodghast, play Stalker, win.
    Resolving Pox usually is a win^^
    WIN

    This is essentially mono-black Team America, more than a slow Pox deck.

    This is an aggressive deck, it's not Pox.
    If you have to play Pox in defense, you do something terribly wrong.
    This also explains the low landcount of just 20:
    You really need 3 mana just once: casting Pox
    This decks focus is on Tempo, so neither LftL, Top nor Crucible of Worlds are to be considered.

    Edit:
    This Primer is probably far from finished, expecially the Match Analysis.
    Tomorrow I'll post a tournamentreport in the corresponding subforum
    Last edited by Aernil; 11-05-2010 at 07:57 AM.

  2. #2
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    Re: [Deck] Day of Disease

    I just took the second list for a spin on MWS and I must say that it topdecks horribly. I kept drawing into lands and Chrome Moxes I didn't need. Also, Bauble as the only card-draw in the deck seems meh, what about Night's Whisper instead?

  3. #3
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    Re: [Deck] Day of Disease

    *Edit
    Either I'm an idiot or he saw and edited his post. Thanks for the recognition.
    Last edited by bakofried; 09-13-2010 at 12:35 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by ktkenshinx View Post
    The Reserved List is a) not legally binding, b) antiquated, c) broken, and d) preventative of maximum game enjoyment. Wizards will remove as many cards from that list as possible to increase the fun of their game. Using market research, they can find a balance between printing enough cards to lower a price from $40 to $15-$20, and not utterly ruining their value. This will be both an economically feasible AND sensible move.
    -ktkenshinx-

  4. #4
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    Re: [Deck] Day of Disease

    Nice thread/deck name. I'm currently tinkering with a LoamPox deck and I was thinking of a cool name for it.

    I have some suggestions that you may take at your discretion:

    Run 2-3 Pox. 4 Pox is too many. After one resolved Pox, you likely won't cast another Pox before you win, because a) you can't, since it's BBB and b) casting another will help your opponent. You said it yourself you only need to cast it once. Furthermore, multiple Pox in your hand when you don't want to cast Pox is problematic. Last but not least, against dangerous Zoo or Burn, losing life with Pox will help your opponent burn you out faster. Pox is the best spell in the deck, but it is the most conservative spell in the deck and you need to run conservative numbers of it.

    Cut a fetchland or two. You can't have your cake and eat it too, that is run 4 Pox and 6 fetchlands. I recommend cutting 1-2 Pox and 2 fetchland if you're running mono-black. Fetchlands make you more vulnerable and they have bad synergy with Pox. Furthermore, you don't really want to thin out your deck of lands as you may need to draw into them after Smallpox or Pox.

    Run 1st turn discard. Inquisition of Kozilek is the ideal candidate. Why not Thoughtseize or Duress? Thoughtseize costs life, you can't afford to lose to your own spells. Duress can't stop turn 2 Tarmogoyf or turn 1 Lackey/Lynx/Nacatl. Inquisition is the best discard for Day of Disease. You also don't care about their 4cc+ spells since you're chiming away at their lands. Speaking of which...

    I get you want to be an aggressive Pox-based deck and I think the suggestions will help you stay on that path, but more efficiently.
    Last edited by Shawon; 09-13-2010 at 12:19 AM.

  5. #5
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    Re: [Deck] Day of Disease

    Mishra's Bauble looks extremely weak, a wasted slot at best. You ought to replace it with Innocent Blood or Duress.
    Luck is a residue of design.



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  6. #6

    Re: [Deck] Day of Disease

    Quote Originally Posted by Vacrix View Post
    Mishra's Bauble looks extremely weak, a wasted slot at best. You ought to replace it with Innocent Blood or Duress.
    Any time the justifaction for running a card is that it gets pitched to Pox or is an easy card to sideboard out, you know you've got a terrible card.

  7. #7
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    Re: [Deck] Day of Disease

    Undiscovered Paradise will help the Bloodghasts return consistently. I had a similar deck that used the Paradises.

  8. #8
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    Re: [Deck] Day of Disease

    Quote Originally Posted by CorpT View Post
    Any time the justifaction for running a card is that it gets pitched to Pox or is an easy card to sideboard out, you know you've got a terrible card.
    Actually, its purpose is to draw a card after (Small)Pox resolves. But it's still a weak synergy, thus wasted slot, at best. It should be replaced with Inquisition of Kozilek.

  9. #9

    Re: [Deck] Day of Disease

    Have you thought about shaving down a few of the 4-ofs to make room for an additional card? Most Pox decks don't even run 4 Pox anymore, so going to 3 or even 2 of those is probably fine. Dropping a Chrome Mox would probably be good since you don't reasonably want to see 2 in a game and the added cards would be reducing the overall curve of the deck by a bit. Ghastly Demise isn't a completely consistent turn 1 answer to much, and it's antergistic with Tombstalker. Finally, your game against combo must be frickin' terrible, given you have almost zero ways of answering anything they'll do or preventing them from doing it. Here's a suggested list:


    10x Swamp
    6x Fetch
    4x Wasteland
    3x Chrome Mox

    2-4x Duress (3)
    4-3x Thoughtseize (4)
    4x Innocent Blood
    4x Smallpox
    4x Hymn to Tourach
    2-3x Pox
    4-3x Snuff Out/Vendetta

    4x Nihilith
    4x Tombstalker
    4x Bloodghast

    Something like that seems like it would have more relevant turn 1 plays than your current list, without sacrificing much at all. 8 super cheap creature removal spells seems like overkill, and switching a few of the Ghastly Demises to Snuff Outs seems good; your best turn 1 targeted removal is either Vendetta or Snuff Out, so which you use depends on your meta.

    I haven't put any time in behind the wheel though, so feel free to call me on any stupid generalizations I've made.

  10. #10

    Re: [Deck] Day of Disease

    Fetchlands looks out of place here, they open you up to random fetchhate, weaken your bloodghasts and pox recovery plus inflicts even more damage to youself. The only redeeming factor is they help Tombstalker, but considering how many cards Pox and Smallpox throws in the bin it hardly looks worth it.

  11. #11
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    Re: [Deck] Day of Disease

    you forgot that fetchland's recurr Bloodghasts twice. They are fine. The only thing i don't like with this deck is that after a while you are just topdecking and have nearly no chance to make cardadvantage.

  12. #12

    Re: [Deck] Day of Disease

    Quote Originally Posted by Rigero View Post
    you forgot that fetchland's recurr Bloodghasts twice. They are fine. The only thing i don't like with this deck is that after a while you are just topdecking and have nearly no chance to make cardadvantage.
    This is why I suggested shaving down the redundant cards and running more gas: you do NOT want to draw a Chrome Mox when you're topdecking.

  13. #13
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    Re: [Deck] Day of Disease

    If you're running 20 lands, you need to be running Dakmor Salvage. It not only guarantees you recover from Pox effects, but it conveniently triggers Bloodghasts, and Dredging can help set up casting Tombstalker.

  14. #14
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    Re: [Deck] Day of Disease

    Quote Originally Posted by Shawon View Post
    If you're running 20 lands, you need to be running Dakmor Salvage. It not only guarantees you recover from Pox effects, but it conveniently triggers Bloodghasts, and Dredging can help set up casting Tombstalker.
    It seems good but CIPT cripples it.

    Wouldn't a pair of Crucible of Worlds be worthwhile in this with all the Pox, Wastelands, and fetches to recur Ghast?

    Also, not to take anything away from the OP, I'm pretty sure there's a Pox thread already.

  15. #15
    Tom MacDonald
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    Re: [Deck] Day of Disease

    Cabal Therapy... Seems good.
    Team Hammafist
    Quote Originally Posted by Admiral_Arzar View Post
    What kind of fucked-up, drug-laden, alternate universe of faerie rape does this guy live in?

  16. #16
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    Re: [Deck] Day of Disease

    Agreed. It looks great in the Bauble slot, and has great synergy with Bloodghast.
    Luck is a residue of design.



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  17. #17

    Re: [Deck] Day of Disease

    Quote Originally Posted by keys View Post
    It seems good but CIPT cripples it.

    Wouldn't a pair of Crucible of Worlds be worthwhile in this with all the Pox, Wastelands, and fetches to recur Ghast?

    Also, not to take anything away from the OP, I'm pretty sure there's a Pox thread already.
    CIPT doesn't really cripple it, it just makes it slightly worse than a basic Swamp...and with 2 or so in the deck, how often is it going to come up? If you're really that scared of it, you could run an Undiscovered Paradise or two to recur Bloodghasts, although dredging stuff into the yard seems pretty solid with Tombstalker...but it might not be necessary.

    Crucible seems win more; the deck is far more aggressive than classic Pox lists. Running 12+ win conditions, four of which recur essentially for free, makes you the beatdown a lot of the time. Crucible is more suited to a grinding plan, of which versions running Sinkhole or Raven's Crime are more able to take advantage.

    There is a Pox thread, but none of the serious decklists in that thread run 12 aggressive creatures. This is essentially mono-black Team America, more than a slow Pox deck.

    I can't believe I missed Cabal Therapy + Bloodghasts. /facepalm

  18. #18
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    Re: [Deck] Day of Disease

    @ Bauble
    I just quote my answer from the tournament report I wrote:
    Although Bauble seems really weak and bad I really love them.
    I see them as kind of weak brainstorm in this deck:
    It's a cantrip, it fills the yard, it costs neither speed nor mana, has a nice synergy with fetches or allows to see what the opponent will get next turn.
    ...
    And to the issue of boarding them out:
    I board them out not because they are bad, but because I just need all the other stuff in my deck.
    ...
    To bring it to the point: Bauble is currently the best way for this deck to play a 56 cards deck.
    So basically I think running kinda 56 cards is superior to running 56 + 4 not THAT awesome cards.
    But don't quote me on that, I need to test Therapy.
    Im shocked I didn't think of them myself after I added Bloodghast.

    But I'll rather test them in the Ghastly Demise slot, because I think Bauble @ opponent, Therapy next turn is kinda awesome XD

    @ martyr:
    You propably described DoD far better than I ever could have done.
    I'll add it to the Primer

    Edit:
    @ Manabase
    At the tournament I won I played 11 basics and 5 fetches (mainly because I have just that many) and 2 wastes (same reason) and I was never screwed.
    I think at the whole tournament I had to mulligan not a single time.

    @ Moxes
    And I really don't want to run less than the full set of moxes, just because you want to see them every game.
    Hell, I even won with hand without land but 1 or 2 moxes.

    @ Pox
    At the tournament I was quite happy to draw multiple Pox.
    One is cruel, but two are generally deadly.
    In one game I had 3 Poxes in hand, and played every one of them (first got countered).
    I think Pox is just too powerful to run not the full set.
    And you actually wanna see one every game, and multiples are also nice.

  19. #19
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    Re: [Deck] Day of Disease

    Lately people have suggesting running a more creatures in the pox thread.

    My pox list run 14 threats, but is more oriented aggainst combo ( inquisition & cabal therapy instead of bauble & demise) but the list looks like traditionnal pox stuff ( 38 cards are staple of mono black pox ).

    I find the deck a really good version of aggro pox , going back to the roots of pox deck ( when I started to play pox it was with black knigts and hyppy, out aggroing the one necropotence player of hight school ).

    I totally agree with the view of pox as an hypper flame rift with land destruction, discard and removal as nice perks ;).

    This said I m going to sleeve this ( got every thing exept bauble from playing pox for looong) and bring it to the next tournament, thank you for thinking out side the pox .


    @ cabal therapy : with only ghast as support and without duress, inquisition I'm not convinced . I my pox deck with 8 other targeted discard spells and bitterblossom as a supplement , I sometime found cabal laking ( well half the time it was an horrible discard fest , half the time it laid dead in my hand or graveyard).

    I, for the moment, will keep going with bauble as they play well with : stalker, demise, fetchlands, pox, small pox , yeah quite a lot in fact.

    As my meta was combo ( last time I checked ) I might go with inquisition instead of demise .

    Wish you luck with the deck, and will be around playng the deck.

  20. #20
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    Re: [Deck] Day of Disease

    So, for the 60% of the time you don't have Chrome Mox at the start of the game, isn't the lack of non-reactive one drops a problem? If you are on the play, Innocent Blood and Ghastly Demise can't be played. If you are on the draw, and they don't play a creature, you are in the same position. Has this been a problem?
    "If your enemy is secure at all points, be prepared for him.
    If he is in superior strength, evade him.
    If your opponent is temperamental, seek to irritate him.
    Pretend to be weak, that he may grow arrogant.
    If he is taking his ease, give him no rest.
    If his forces are united, separate them.
    Attack him where he is unprepared, appear where you are not expected."

    -Sun Tzu

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