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Thread: [Deck] MUD

  1. #1
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    [Deck] MUD

    MUD is a Legacy port of a popular Vintage deck that is composed primarily of artifacts. The object is to disrupt your opponent's development long enough to steal the win from them with a cheap threat, while at the same time ensuring that they cannot recover from their stunted board position. This can be achieved through artifacts that tax your opponent's spells, such as Trinisphere, Sphere of Resistance, Lodestone Golem, and Thorn of Amethyst, land/permanent destruction via Wasteland and Smokestack, and/or tap-down effects such as Rishadan Port and Tangle Wire.

    The deck abuses these taxing effects alongside cards that generate massive amounts of mana, effectively bypassing the downside of the lock pieces.

    There are typically four different approaches to the deck - Aggro, Control, Combo, and hybridized builds that try to capitalize on aspects of all three. Since the deck is more or less entirely colorless, many of your options are limited, so there tends to be a significant amount of overlap between builds.


    Here is a sample of a more control-oriented build:

    4x Lodestone Golem
    4x Metalworker
    2x Razormane Masticore or Masticore

    4x Trinisphere
    4x Sphere of Resistance
    4x Chalice of the Void
    4x Tangle Wire
    3x Crucible of Worlds
    3x Smokestack

    4x Grim Monolith
    4x Voltaic Key
    4x City of Traitors
    4x Ancient Tomb
    4x Rishadan Port
    4x Mishra's Factory
    4x Wasteland

    I chose to showcase this build because I feel it is the middle ground between the other two versions. The more aggressive builds will drop some of the lock pieces for more creatures and equipment like Sword of Fire and Ice or Umezawa's Jitte, while the combo versions tend to run Staff of Domination to draw the majority of their deck, generate an arbitrary amount of mana, and cast everything in their hand or any number of kill conditions ranging from Sundering Titan to Emrakul, the Aeons Torn.

    All in all, MUD is effective in disrupting the more popular decks in the current format, such as New Horizons and Bant, while almost completely ignoring the lock mechanism utilized by Counterbalance/Top decks. Aggro such as Zoo is quite winnable, while the troublesome matches tend to be things like Goblins that can swarm faster than you can lock them down, as well as midrange strategies such as The Rock.

    I will post more testing info here as I gather it, as well as tournament placings. If you happen to do well in your local event with your own MUD build, post in this thread or PM me your decklist and the place that you finished, and I will add it to the OP.
    Last edited by majikal; 06-25-2010 at 10:00 PM. Reason: added brief description of archetype
    Quote Originally Posted by TheInfamousBearAssassin View Post
    This isn't the game of holding hands and friendship. This is a competitive game, and if we all sit around singing kumbaya and sucking each other's dicks, then a lot of people are going to go to a tournament and lose because their pile of 61 jank isn't the special unique snowflake that everyone on the Source says it was.

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    Re: [Deck] MUD

    I've been buiding a similar list, without Juggernaut, though and only 2 All is Dust, since it's anyway quite expensive at 7 mana. Instead I have a number of Spheres of Resistance, Crucibles and Karn, Silver Golems. I see Crucible as a must-to-fit-card because of the Wasteland recycling and because your manabase is very vulnerable to Wasteland by itself.

    What I made differently is eventually leaving Emrakul out after testing. As a 1-of it has only been findable and castable with an active Metalworker, which is a winning position already. I'm now trying Kozilek, which is actually relevantly more castable without Metalworker. But I have a feeling that I will end up cutting the eldrazi in favor of more 4-of's.

    I like the build, though. It's very streamlined and All is Dust is a really huge card. It's only bad against combo, and you have about 20 relevant cards for that matchup anyway.
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  3. #3

    Re: [Deck] MUD

    I still enjoy playing my old 5/3 deck, here's what I'm still having fun with:

    4x Chalice of the Void
    3x Crucible of Worlds
    4x Mox Diamond
    3x Sword of Fire and Ice
    2x Umezawa's Jitte
    4x Trinisphere
    4x Lodestone Golem
    4x Metalworker
    3x Razormane Masticore
    4x Su-Chi
    1x Karn, Silver Golem
    4x Ancient Tomb
    4x City of Traitors
    4x Crystal Vein
    4x Mishra’s Factory
    4x Rishadan Port
    4x Wasteland

    Sideboard:
    4x Pithing Needle
    4x Tormod’s Crypt
    3x meta slot
    4x meta slot

    meta slot's could be: null brootch, silent arbitter, winter orb, defence grid,.....

    It still workds pretty good and I use sphere of resistance over trinisphere because it's cumulative with multiples, and golem + it's easier to drop on the first turn.

    I also have a more agro version of the deck without the metalworker (play cathodion, or phyrexian war beast instead of metalworker, trinisphere instead of sphere of resistance, an extra crucible instead of an equipment, and blinkmoth nexus/mutavault instead of rishadan port.)

  4. #4

    Re: [Deck] MUD

    What do you all think of running Expedition Map? at 1cc it can come down really early and help establish a Waste-lock with Crucible. I've seen a few Vintage MUD lists that utilize Expedition Map to get a Strip-lock online and was wondering how feasible it would be in Legacy.

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    Re: [Deck] MUD

    If you are thinking about MUD, you should consider some common inclusions in Vintage lists:


    Karn, Silver Golem
    Triskelion
    Sphere of Resistance
    Duplicant


    Of course, Vintage lists have far more acceleration, I'm wondering if Everflowing Chalice might not be good here. With Metalworker I think you could consistently have 3-5 counters on it, which would be pretty nuts.

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    Re: [Deck] MUD

    My version splashes blue for Arcane Laboratory & Academy Ruins and uses Mox Diamonds to get the rarely-needed blue mana. Just putting that out there.

  7. #7

    Re: [Deck] MUD

    Quote Originally Posted by EssKay View Post
    If you are thinking about MUD, you should consider some common inclusions in Vintage lists:


    Karn, Silver Golem
    Triskelion
    Sphere of Resistance
    Duplicant


    Of course, Vintage lists have far more acceleration, I'm wondering if Everflowing Chalice might not be good here. With Metalworker I think you could consistently have 3-5 counters on it, which would be pretty nuts.
    if you get is down consistently with 3-4 counters then you should've casted something more relevant with that 6-8 mana...

    triskelion is good in vintage since the only creature's you usualy kill are: welders, mox monkey's, dark confidant's, ... in legacy most relevant creature's have 2 or more toughnes, so a 2/2 that pings 2 for 6 mana doesn't sound so good (razormane does his job a lot better)

    duplicant might be a cool sideboard card vs reanimate (doesn't do anything about inkwell though)

    karn might get upped to 2 in my own list,

    and I allready run SOR over 3-spehre, however kan does make trinisphere a 3/3 so maybe i'll change those...

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    Re: [Deck] MUD

    Lets splash bleu, really => Master of etherium is a monster in here + you get academy ruins and you can add thoughtcast or thirst for knowledge for some carddraw too. It aint really MUD anymore but it would be the better deck I think.
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    Re: [Deck] MUD

    Quote Originally Posted by bleuisforwhimps View Post
    Lets splash bleu, really => Master of etherium is a monster in here + you get academy ruins and you can add thoughtcast or thirst for knowledge for some carddraw too. It aint really MUD anymore but it would be the better deck I think.
    The problem with this is the mana base, I think. Mox Diamond doesn't do enough on its own to warrant a blue splash, and taking out any of the 2-mana lands seems bad. I agree that Master of Etherium is huge, and I may have to try that, but what lands would I replace? Darksteel Citadel? I suppose these could be Seat of the Synod or Island - probably Island since Null Rod destroys us otherwise.

    Maybe a mana base of:

    4x Mox Diamond
    4x Wasteland
    4x Mishra's Factory
    4x City of Traitors
    4x Ancient Tomb
    4x Crystal Vein
    4x Island

    and then just have 4x Master of Etherium as the only blue cards?

    Of course, All is Dust would have to come out... but in testing it's proving to be best as a sideboard card, so that might be okay.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheInfamousBearAssassin View Post
    This isn't the game of holding hands and friendship. This is a competitive game, and if we all sit around singing kumbaya and sucking each other's dicks, then a lot of people are going to go to a tournament and lose because their pile of 61 jank isn't the special unique snowflake that everyone on the Source says it was.

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    Re: [Deck] MUD

    Quote Originally Posted by overseer1234 View Post
    if you get is down consistently with 3-4 counters then you should've casted something more relevant with that 6-8 mana...

    triskelion is good in vintage since the only creature's you usualy kill are: welders, mox monkey's, dark confidant's, ... in legacy most relevant creature's have 2 or more toughnes, so a 2/2 that pings 2 for 6 mana doesn't sound so good (razormane does his job a lot better)

    duplicant might be a cool sideboard card vs reanimate (doesn't do anything about inkwell though)

    karn might get upped to 2 in my own list,

    and I allready run SOR over 3-spehre, however kan does make trinisphere a 3/3 so maybe i'll change those...
    Whoops, meant to have Razormane in that list but forgot. I still like Everflowing Chalice....I've played against Vintage lists before and the amount of acceleration they run is just insane, most of which we don't have access to in Legacy. If 6-8 mana on t3 is good, 9-12 on t4 is even better, and that seems pretty relevant. I just think relying on Metalworker alone is too risky in a format full of removal.

    I think this is definitely a deck to start working on though, Scars may hold a ton of new options for it.

  11. #11

    Re: [Deck] MUD

    Quote Originally Posted by EssKay View Post
    Whoops, meant to have Razormane in that list but forgot. I still like Everflowing Chalice....I've played against Vintage lists before and the amount of acceleration they run is just insane, most of which we don't have access to in Legacy. If 6-8 mana on t3 is good, 9-12 on t4 is even better, and that seems pretty relevant. I just think relying on Metalworker alone is too risky in a format full of removal.

    I think this is definitely a deck to start working on though, Scars may hold a ton of new options for it.
    Agreed, I play Agro MUD in vintage myself, but I never want to cast something that cost's 9-12 mana, shjort of sundering titan (that I don't play anymore)

    Like: if you have 6-8 mana on turn 3, wouldn't it be better to just play good stuff THAT turn, instead of playing crapy accel that ends up being useless the turn after you drop your hand? At least metalworker carry's equipment, andbeats.

    I think it's BECAUSE you play so many expensive spells that you start relying on metalworker.

    For me metalworker is there simply to cast my 2-5 mana spells while I can use my wastelands, and port's for disruption, or try to keep the pressure up because my city of traitor's and crystal vein got binned (the crucible's are just a surplus for that fact).

    Metalworker is a really cute toy since it's been unbanned, and really nut's if you get to untap with it in play (and your hand is full, but (same as in vintage) it's not the backbone of the deck...

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    Re: [Deck] MUD

    Quote Originally Posted by overseer1234 View Post
    Metalworker is a really cute toy since it's been unbanned, and really nut's if you get to untap with it in play (and your hand is full, but (same as in vintage) it's not the backbone of the deck...
    Right, in Vintage it's not the backbone because they have Lotus/Moxen/Academy/Grim Monolith/Sol Ring/Mana Vault as other means to power out all those 5-6 cmc guys. In Legacy we don't have any of that, and the 2-mana lands just aren't going to cut it. It doesn't necessarily have to be Everflowing Chalice, but I think the deck has to have additional acceleration, I just like Chalice because it has the potential to generate more mana than just about anything else. If we aren't going to run something else to try and ensure 6-8 mana per turn, then I think there needs to be a much larger blue component to protect the metalworkers, but then the deck starts to look a lot different.

  13. #13

    Re: [Deck] MUD

    Here's my more agro oriented list:


    // Lands
    4 [MM] Rishadan Port/Blinkmoth nexus/Mutavault
    4 [TE] Ancient Tomb
    4 [6E] Crystal Vein
    4 [TE] Wasteland
    4 [4E] Mishra's Factory
    4 [EX] City of Traitors

    // Creatures
    4 [AQ] Su-Chi
    3 [10E] Razormane Masticore
    1 [US] Karn, Silver Golem
    4 [US] Cathodion
    4 [WWK] Lodestone golem

    // Spells
    4 [MR] Chalice of the Void
    4 [10E] Crucible of Worlds
    4 [SH] Mox Diamond
    3 [DS] Sword of Fire and Ice
    1 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
    4 [EX] Sphere of Resistance

    // Sideboard
    SB: 4 [8E] Defense Grid (1-sided sphere against controll is nice)
    SB: 4 [DK] Tormod's Crypt (does this really need an explanation)
    SB: 4 [SOK] Pithing Needle (good against so much Qasali, Deed, EE, Survival, Shackles, SDT,... you name it)
    SB: 3 Anty agro slot/meta slot, could be powder keg, all is dust, silent arbitter,.... depends on your liking

    This deck doesn't need metalworker since the top of the curve is 5 mana, and you play 12 -lands+crucible of worlds+mox diamond(in a deck with 24 lands) to keep up the pace with your own sphere's while punching face.


    Karn's something I've been testing since 4 masticore's is a bit much and I like to keep the creature cound at at least 16, and lodestone myr is also on my to test list.

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    Re: [Deck] MUD

    Well, it looks like we've got Grim Monolith available to us now! Wat do?
    Quote Originally Posted by TheInfamousBearAssassin View Post
    This isn't the game of holding hands and friendship. This is a competitive game, and if we all sit around singing kumbaya and sucking each other's dicks, then a lot of people are going to go to a tournament and lose because their pile of 61 jank isn't the special unique snowflake that everyone on the Source says it was.

  15. #15

    Re: [Deck] MUD

    4x Metalworker
    4x Lodestone Golem
    2x Juggernaut
    4x Triskelion

    4x Tangle Wire
    4x Trinisphere
    4x Chalice of the Void
    4x Sphere of Resistance
    2x Sword of Fire and Ice

    4x Mox Diamond
    4x Grim Monolith
    4x Crystal Vein
    4x City of Traitors
    4x Ancient Tomb
    4x Mishra's Factory
    4x Wasteland

    SB:

    3 Crucible (manadenial, mirror)
    4 Relic of Progenitus/Tormod's Crypt (depends on the prefered amount of counters on chalice)
    4 Sculpting Steel/Duplicant (Reanimator, I only fear Sphinx, everything else is raceable)
    4 Pithing Needle (as mentioned by overseer1234

    A little more aggressive. Metalworker allows us to drop even Triskelion T2 and Grim Monolith allows us to drop Metalworker T1 more often.
    12 Spheres should be enough, Thorn isn't much of a use, since there are too many creatures out there.

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    Re: [Deck] MUD

    How effective is Mox Diamond with just 20 lands?
    Quote Originally Posted by TheInfamousBearAssassin View Post
    This isn't the game of holding hands and friendship. This is a competitive game, and if we all sit around singing kumbaya and sucking each other's dicks, then a lot of people are going to go to a tournament and lose because their pile of 61 jank isn't the special unique snowflake that everyone on the Source says it was.

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    Re: [Deck] MUD

    Is Grim Monolith even worth it without Power Artifact or Voltaic Key to get more than a Lotus Petal effect out of it? Yea, you can waste an entire turn spending 4 to untap it so you can get a burst of mana on the following turn... but that's hardly the point of the card in the first place. For all that, Thran Dynamo is better.

    Lotus Petal > Grim Monolith
    Thran Dynamo > Grim Monolith

    Albeit Grim Monolith is diverse, I just don't see why you'd play it without Voltaic Key or Power Artifact.

  18. #18
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    Re: [Deck] MUD

    If you're running tangle wire (and blue obviously) you probably want to consider Esperzoa.

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    Re: [Deck] MUD

    Not sure. I'd love to run Key as well, though, since it also plays nicely with Metalworker. At that point, however, how worthwhile is it to even run Mox Diamond? We would still have the same percentage of turn-1 three drops, but we would also gain access to more consistent turn-1 four drops. Seems like that could be the right direction to take this deck.

    Quote Originally Posted by clavio View Post
    If you're running tangle wire (and blue obviously) you probably want to consider Esperzoa.
    Why? First of all it's blue and running colored mana sources in this deck doesn't seem plausible, and secondly... just, why? I mean between Tangle and sphere effects you get enough turns to either flat-out win or dig up more lock pieces, so cute tricks like bouncing your Tangle Wire don't really seem to make the cut.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheInfamousBearAssassin View Post
    This isn't the game of holding hands and friendship. This is a competitive game, and if we all sit around singing kumbaya and sucking each other's dicks, then a lot of people are going to go to a tournament and lose because their pile of 61 jank isn't the special unique snowflake that everyone on the Source says it was.

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    Re: [Deck] MUD

    Why? First of all it's blue and running colored mana sources in this deck doesn't seem plausible, and secondly... just, why? I mean between Tangle and sphere effects you get enough turns to either flat-out win or dig up more lock pieces, so cute tricks like bouncing your Tangle Wire don't really seem to make the cut.
    The point is that Esperzoa is an effing beast, being a 4/3 flyer for 2U is incredibly sexy. The part that sucks is that you have a mandatory bounce effect every turn. This would normally cause it to see no play, but with Tangle Wire, you turn an otherwise negative ability into a very powerful lock piece. Causing the opponent to tap 4 permanents everyturn can shut alot of decks down. Toss in a Lodestone Golem, which makes it even harder for them to cast stuff, and I could see this idea having at least some merit.

    Problem is, without the Tangle Wire, Esperzoa sucks.

    However, Tezzeret is an animal with Tangle Wire. Especially with something like Grim Monolith already in play, dropping Tezzeret and grabbing Tangle Wire will tap the opponent's board down while barely effecting yours. Then, you ramp the Tezzeret back up till you can grab Esperzoa, and you just keep the lock going. Interesting.

    I still think it's a danger of cool things, but worth investigating.

    I really want to find a way to break open Blue 5/3, though. It's a rather fun deck. You play a bunch of acceleration, big guys + Jitte, and you get disruption with Chalice (@ 1 to stop StP/Bolt/etc) and mana denial via Lodestone Golem and other possibilities like Smokestack, Tangle Wire, Trinisphere, Sphere of Resistance/Thorn of Amethyst, Wasteland, etc.

    What's the best way to build the damn thing, though? Is Faerie Stompy just strictly better?

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