Page 3 of 8 FirstFirst 1234567 ... LastLast
Results 41 to 60 of 151

Thread: CAB - JaceTM

  1. #41
    Member

    Join Date

    Aug 2009
    Location

    Germany
    Posts

    5

    Re: CAB - JaceTM

    yes, that's what i meant :)

  2. #42

    Re: CAB - JaceTM

    I am going to try to play in a magic-league legacy trial next week with this deck to see how I will do. I really enjoy playing this deck as it's been running well for me.
    Team Hammafist!

  3. #43
    Member
    perm's Avatar
    Join Date

    Oct 2009
    Location

    altered states of america
    Posts

    630

    Re: CAB - JaceTM

    How is your forbid sustained? Treasure hunt?

  4. #44
    Member
    from Cairo's Avatar
    Join Date

    Mar 2007
    Location

    RI
    Posts

    1,093

    Re: CAB - JaceTM

    Quote Originally Posted by perm View Post
    How is your forbid sustained? Treasure hunt?
    And Jace.

  5. #45

    Re: CAB - JaceTM

    The thread looks kinda dead tho i see CAB team keeps up the good results on deckcheck :>
    Kept testing the deck in the last month and made some small changes to MD & Sb having really good results on MWS.

    Here is the list :

    4 Swords to Plowshares
    3 Firespout
    4 Engineered Explosives
    4 CUNNING WISH
    4 Force of Will
    4 Brainstorm
    3 Treasure Hunt
    2 Sensei's Divining Top
    4 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

    4 Maze of Ith
    1 Academy Ruins
    1 Dust Bowl
    4 Mishra's Factory
    1 Tolaria West

    1 Mountain
    1 Plains
    2 Island
    4 Flooded Strand
    3 Scalding Tarn
    2 Tundra
    2 Underground Sea
    2 Volcanic Island
    1 Plateau

    Side:
    1 Blue Elemental Blast
    1 Pyroblast
    1 Red Elemental Blast
    1 Forbid
    1 Misdirection
    3 Mindbreak trap

    3 Extirpate
    1 Ravenous trap

    1 Pulse of the fields
    1 Wing Shards


    While testing i felt like forbid was too clunky and that i would use it just on turns 5> ... at the same time i felt that every time i had a Cunning wish in my hand i was in total control of the situation so...
    Switched them with a pair of wishes and the results were kinda Overpwn! Wish in this deck is a "bomb". Why? Because it allows you to get total control of the game on turn 3/4 (the crucial ones besides vs ANT/TPS) just before dropping jace, and ofc in later turns it allows us to get the damn forbid.

    The main change in the SB was the addition of the 3 Mindbreak traps. krosan was pushed out since i never really felt the need of it while testing even vs CB decks... Explosives solves any kind of problems there..

    Opinions/thoughts? let's keep the topic active! ^_^

  6. #46

    Re: CAB - JaceTM

    Well Knoll, I have to say that I like your changes (I'm also glad to see this topic reusrrecting since it's a deck that I like a lot ;))!

    Cunning Wish is awesome, I never stopped playing it, also in my landstill deck :) !

    BTW, here there are some thoughts that may be useful for new testing...

    Shriekmaw: i've seen some versions of this deck playing 3 shriekmaw instead of firespout, it may be a nice solution in metagames poors of merfolk or goblin decks, where a specific removal may be more useful that firespout, I'll try them. Plus, adding a volrath's stronghold in the MD also, it can be a nice revomal recursion.

    Second, I'm testing also a tsabo's decree in the sideboard, the 6 mana CC is not a problem usually and when i played it against merfolk or gobs they almost always scoop, it's a nice way to have a 6 mana victory against them in the SB playing the fullset of cunning wishes.

    Keep the topic alive guys !

    Regards.

  7. #47

    Re: CAB - JaceTM

    Nice to see some people still test our deck, it seemed like it had gotten lost somehow, which would be a shame in my (biased) opinion because the deck is pretty insane against anything that isn't really fast combo (If the DDay player for example misjudges the matchup and tries to beat you going very long, Forbid often ruins his day pretty fiercely).

    @Knoll: That's an interesting direction to take the deck in. The Wishes can be pretty clunky at times, though, which is why I always avoided going to more than two. Once I get to 3+ Wishes, I'd also want a FoF in the SB to turn the Wishes into card advantage against other blue decks (the Forbids I run instead do this by letting you dump useless cards in hand for "more" countermagic). I also think that Spell Pierce is simply better than Mindbreak Trap (at least the second and third Trap) because they help you defend against Chant/Duress from Combo before you can get the Forbid-lock online and also give you something to SB against Sinkhole + Vindicate + Wasteland.dec.

    We also have gone back to the two Wasteland version by now (instead of TWest/Dust Bowl) because the response-speed has proven to be pretty relevant during further testing and we rarely ever wanted to transmute TWest, making it a worse Island.
    The KGrip (or simply a Dismantling Blow, which we are running now) is kind of necessary to be able to answer well-played Pithing Needles (when the first one hits EE as it should). I personally wouldn't want to leave home without it now that people in my meta have learned how to play against this. I suggest you drop the MisD for it, which is cute but not really that good without any creatures.

    @gesùbeppe: We developed the Shriekmaw-version once we found our metagame to be pretty much devoid of tribal and full of blue mana-denial aggro-control (against which it is much better than the Firespout version for obvious reasons). Naturally when we took it to the next tournament, there were like 25% tribal decks in the room. If you aren't very sure that tribal is absent, I'd suggest using the Firespout version simply because you don't lose all that much power against the decks Shriekmaw shines against while not having Firespout can make Goblins a pretty hard matchup. The Shriekmaws also have the amusing side-effect of being able to beat Dredge far easier because they get rid of Bridges.

    As for Tsabo's Decree, I don't have any real testing with it, as it looks like a waste with only two Wishes (and is reaaally slow for B5), especially because you're usually trying to get a Forbid-lock running against them anyway, at which point you don't really need Decree any more. But I can see how you could sculpt your gameplan around stalling for Decree, so if it works well for you, by all means run it.

    Hope this helps!

    PS: If any of you actually take this to a tournament, I'd be happy to hear how you've done. Only having me and Maxim ever play this doesn't really give the deck much credibility, sadly.
    I don't have low self-esteem, I have low esteem for everyone else. -Daria

    Proud member of Team CAB
    High Priest of the Church of BLA

    CAB JaceTM

    My articles

  8. #48
    (previously Metalwalker)
    GGoober's Avatar
    Join Date

    Mar 2008
    Location

    Houston, TX
    Posts

    1,647

    Re: CAB - JaceTM

    Hey Mon, great deck, definitely got my interest. I've been trying to make 24+ Land blue control decks in Legacy work but failed to identify Treasure Hunt + 4 Maze being a great synergy.

    I was always bent on the Standstill engine (turn 1 Standstill with Mox Diamonds). Being a Landstill player at heart, I still think Standstill is undisputedly the best card draw regardless of what people say. Your analysis on Standstill is correct, but don't forget that the Landstill player usually ALWAYS has the advantage when dropping Standstill since it is the heart of the deck. Landstill players that fail to drop Standstills most of the time have a deck design flaw that needs to be reconsidered. Regardless, an optimized Landstill deck tweaked to maximize Standstill still has the bad matchups in Vial.decs, in particular Merfolk. This is very true on the draw and less true on the play, depending on how the Landstill deck is built. My reason to experiment with CAB Jace is therefore not a belief that Landstill/Standstill is dead (I hold the opinion Landstill is a very good choice for the meta right now if it deals with vial decs), therefore I would like to make that clear before I discuss my list with CAB Jace :)

    Having looked at this thread and your analysis, I did observe a tremendous synergy using Maze as a creature removal. The only issues are that Maze takes up a land slot, therefore slowing you down a turn, but if we reverse this thinking and think again: what other removal parallels to an uncounterable permanent effect as maze? Even StP sometimes has to bow before Maze as it untaps Iona naming white. Maze still doesn't solve Progenitus/Emrakul but neither does StP, so in this situation, Maze is a strong contendant as a spot 'removal' in control decks. It is not removal since the board keeps growing bigger, and that's the flaw of Maze. But paired up with a strategy, this can be deadly. In your analysis, Maze prompts opponents to overextend, and this is where the strategy of the deck makes Maze shines. A firespout then takes out a swarm of aggro, leaving opponents at a card/board disadvantage while you resolve Jace and recoup with Treasure Hunt. This is the beauty I find in Maze after thinking more. Many times playing Landstill with WoG, I have hoped my opponents are dumb to overextend but they never did, so Wrath becomes a 2-1 or 1-1 at best. From experience, the way to make my opponents overextend are to play cards like EPlague, Humility, Shackles, forcing them to drop more creatures or not be able to do anything about my life total. I have since moved away from the WoG plan, and play non-WoG Landstill builds (Scepter-Chant recently has been very successful due to favorable game 1s against bad matchups like Emrakul/Progenitus/combo, and it still halts aggro in game1). With this in mind, CAB Jace has much appealed to me, since it was performing the same operations as Humility/Shackles without the need on resolving spells and potentially be destroyed by a grip/counterspell. Maze does die to Wasteland, but you play 4 of them, as opposed to running just 1-2 Humilities in classic landstill builds, therefore there are more (and free) of these strategic pieces available in this deck than in Landstill. From there I started to explore how this can be abused.

    I was following your list but for personal preference, I dislike some choices (they are solid choices but for personal preference I do not like them). Your deck is aimed to destroy any aggro deck out there in the format and I feel that it strongly does so, however it forgoes the game1 (maybe even game2/3) against combo (which is an evolving archetype making a comeback since the banning of mystical tutor). The enchantress matchup is also not too favorable outside of EE. In short, the non-aggro matchup are not too favorable although you have a great control matchup due to the denial-strategy of making your opponents drop Standstills. From what I observed and reasoned and piecing a decklist that suits me best, I have come up with the following CAB Jace build (Creatures are Bad yes :D)


    Lands: 24
    3 Wasteland
    1 Volrath's Stronghold
    3 Factory
    4 Delta
    2 Misty Rainforest
    3 Underground Sea
    3 Tropical Island
    1 Lonely Sandbar
    2 Island
    1 Swamp
    1 Forest

    Aggro-hate: 10
    4 Maze of Ith
    4 Pernicious Deed
    2 Shriekmaw

    Card filtering/draw: 17
    3 Top
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Treasure Hunt
    1 Life from the Loam
    2 Cunning Wish
    3 Jace

    Counters: 10
    3 Spell Pierce
    3 Counterspell
    4 Force of Will

    SB:
    1 Intuition
    1 Forbid
    2 Krosan Grip
    3 Extirpate
    4 Counterbalance
    1 Diabolic Edict
    3 Engineerined Plague/Innocent Blood/Shriekmaw


    Comments:

    Creature Removal:
    Do not compare the creature-removal package against your deck, my chocies did not develop from analyzing CAB Jace. Instead I was referring to recent UBg Landstill builds that did well. These builds typically run 4 Deeds, 4-6 mix of Innocent Blood/Ghastly Demise. I base my analysis off on UBg Landstill and made the choice to swap 4 Maze for the Blood/Demises. 2 Shriekmaw complements the removal package, with the ability to hit a specific target (goyf etc) when needed. There is recursion with Stronghold (Intuition for Stronghold/Loam/Shriekmaw), and most importantly shriekmaw actually hits Emrakul, and provides another means of win-condition (not a good one though). I personally feel that in the early game, Maze trumps Innocent Blood since it defends just as well. In the mid game, Blood becomes subpar as more creatures flood in whereas Maze still picks the best creature to fog. Ghastly Demise is straight up removal so 2 Shriekmaws replaced those slots. The net effect is a comparable creature-control package to UBg builds (weaker on the REMOVAL side but stronger on the stalling side). This stalling strategy will be exploited with Pernicious Deeds. You mentioned that you feel Deeds is clunky and I do agree with you that to use it on the same turn, you require quite a lot of mana. With Maze stalling, you can let your opponents build up a board over turns, and by turn 5+, Deeds seems much stronger than Firespout. Firespout is undoubtedly the best removal on turn3, but I feel Deeds becomes much stronger as turns pass on. It is also a straight answer all to enchantments (CB), artifacts (Stax/Chalice) and creatures, which is a plus in game1 matchups. Deeds is the only reason why UBg Landstill builds are viable even without the all powerful removal StP.

    Card Filtering
    3 Top + 4 Brainstorm synergizes nicely with Treasure Hunt. Top is solid with LftL engine, dredging crap away and digging deeper. Top is just that good in control. Everytime I played Landstill with/without 2 Tops, I do better with 2 Tops. The ability to have a 3-card knowledge is crucial to control decks that are constantly pressurized. 3 Top with 4 CBtop postboard (total of 12 1cc, 12 2cc spells) aid against non-aggro decks).

    Life from the Loam is just a solid card by itself. There's no need to Intuition for the engine but the option is always there in the Wishboard. I usually just grab Forbid or Extirpate to answer relevant threats but if Wish sits dead in your hand, go setup an engine to seal the game instead of risk losing the game over drawn out turns. LftL synergizes with Top, Forbid, Lonely Sandbar, Shriekmaw/Stronghold, Wasteland. It's just a card that has added utility in this deck and its presence is just a comfort knowing that options are out there with the engines available.

    2 Cunning Wish: I've tried cutting these, but working out the decklist, it's the most flexible slot that finds Intuition/Loam/Shriekmaw/Stronghold/Wasteland engine, and also grabs Forbid in the SB instead of clunking up the maindeck. A timed wish on Extirpate can be wrecking especially if opponents allow Wish to resolve, then they can't respond to Extirpate.
    3 Jace: I would want to play 4 Jace, but I feel that since the deck has inevitable engines by itself and already generates tremendous board/card advantage, the 4th Jace does not make early-game matchups favorable. I opted for 4 Treasure Hunt 3 Jace instead of 3 Hunts, 4 Jace since I want to stabilize early game and Hunt is more relevant than Jace then. Minimum of 3 Jace is needed to at least consistently draw into one when the board is locked out.

    Counterspells
    Perhaps the main reasons I geared away from your decklist is my personal dislike at the countersuite. You mentioned Counterspell to be clunky, but I think Forbid is even more clunky. Even if Forbid-recursion goes on, this just means you already have the game sealed and Forbid has nothing to do with winning the game, it was the situation where you COULD cast forbid that won you the game i.e. resolving a 3cc counterspell usually means that you are in a position to stabilize and win the game. Imagine situations where you are hardpressed and decks are aggresive on turns 1-2 (zoo/merfolks/gobs/combo/reanimator), then forbid would never improve those matchups since it is always a turn late, or that Maze landdrop interferred. Counterspell has resurged in control decks (UWx, UBg landstill now all run 4). It is a hard counter to anything. Spell Snare used to be the dominant choice but the meta has shifted to 'cheating combo' decks like Show and Tell, and combo doesn't get too disrupted by Spell Snare (Doomsday, Rituals, Ad Nauseams etc). Spell Snare was MVP when CBTop decks were the most prominent, and back when those decks did not run much 3cc spells like Warmonk/Cliques. The format has changed, even Zoo is packing more 3cc knights, and some even planeswalker. Spell Snare is becoming too narrow, so Counterspell has been showing back again. Forbid is just a mana more, but the format has not slown down that much to warrant it as the counterspell of choice in today's matter. I do love forbid in the deck, but my philosophy is that it's a lockpiece, a win condition, and a lockpiece and win condition are usually only relevant in gameplay after you stabilize and have control. My main concerns for control decks are stabilizing early game. If you can't do that, you have nothing. Hence my choice of Counterspell over Forbid. I do have the option to lock the game with Forbid with Cunning Wish.

    I run 3 Spell Pierce, debating against Spell Snare but realized the things I do not want to see are where Spell Pierce mattered the most: Vial, Planeswalker, Counterbalance, Top, EE, Natural Order, Show and Tell, Ad Nauseam. Spell Pierce is more relevant for my strategy as I can handle aggro fairly well, but can't deal with the cards mentioned earlier if they resolve. Again, you see my philosophy of 'maximizing the potential to stabilize early game in order to win'. 3 MD Spell Pierce gives you a better game 1 against non-aggro decks, something which I felt your deck is lacking outside of forbid lock (assuming if they are that slow to setup Ad Nauseam, Chokes, Show&Tell etc).

    In total, I have 10 Counterspells (7 hard counters), this is comparable to most control/landstill builds of 10-12 counters (8-10hard counters).


    aggro matchups
    My aggro matchups are much weaker compared to your decks, but I feel despite that comparison, just referring against UBg builds and a control-mentality, it has a decent chance of stabilizing againt bulk of the aggro field (merfolks an exception but Maze helps a ton except when they have kira). I did not mention that 4 Factories also stall off aggro. Postboard EPlagues/Perish help shore up weaker matchups.

    Control matchups
    Similar to your analysis, you should beat any Standstill.control decks since you operate better under Standstill and have more draw power from Hunt. My CBTop matchup is slightly weaker since I cannot dodge CB with Deeds as easily as you can with EE set at 4,5,6,7 etc. Grips postboard does help in that matchup since my deck is more G than your list.

    combo/non-aggro matchups
    My list wins on this one. MD Counterspells/Spell Pierce are hard counters against such decks. Against these decks, I board: -4 Maze, -2 Shriekmaw, +2 Extirpate +4 Counterbalance (last extirpate in wishboard), This makes me have: 12 1cc spells and 12 2cc spells, good enough for CBTop engine to start potentially locking these matchups out on top of the MD Counterspells/Spell Pierce/FoWs.


    Thoughts/'Jank' ideas:
    - I have been thinking with the loam engine, the possibility of running Scroll Rack over SDT is quite brutal. Accumulate a bunch of lands from Loam, and put them back with Rack, and then procede to draw off a ton with Treasure Hunt getting about 10 cards. This is overkill, but Scroll Rack sometimes always seem like a strong replacement over SDT in pure control decks to dig for more relevant answers.
    - In total, I have 10 Counterspells (7 hard counters), this is comparable to most control/landstill builds of 10-12 counters (8-10hard counters).
    - My aggro matchups are much weaker compared to your decks, but I feel despite that comparison, just referring against UBg builds and a control-mentality, it has a decent chance of stabilizing againt bulk of the aggro field (merfolks an exception but Maze helps a ton except when they have kira). I did not mention that 4 Factories also stall off aggro.
    - This deck has built-in engines that are not required but is always available if you need it: Intuition/Loam/Shriekmaw/Wasteland/Volrath's Stronghold. I have thought about adding a 4th color dual, Ruins over Stronghold, and 1 EE MD as an Intuition engine but I feel that this does not make up for the missing removal against the bad matchups of Emrakul/Iona.dec. Shriekmaw solves this problem and still provides a win-con. There's already 4 Deeds so EE recursion is not needed, although that option and strategy is always out there and works better against swarm aggro/zoo. If the ruins engine is adopted, a singleton etched oracle can also be run, mimicking ITF deck variants.
    - I think CAB Jace can also support 2-4 Standstills if they find a spot for it. I personally think it is THE Strongest deck under Standstill aside from turn 1 vial turn 2 standstill in Merfolks.
    - All in all, props to CAB team for designing this gem. I feel that UWrb is a decklist that is solid against aggro and control, but this UGb list that I am proposing has a slightly weaker matchup but shores up the game1 matchup against many other non-aggro decks.

  9. #49
    Member
    Oiolosse's Avatar
    Join Date

    Feb 2010
    Location

    Houston,texas
    Posts

    387

    Re: CAB - JaceTM

    Shriekmaw + Stronghold seems kinda weak. I mean, 2 Shriekmaw isn't really enough to warrent the spots.

    Also, EE recursion is just soo good and quite better against Zoo than Deed.

    Also, EE jacks up tokens with much better efficiency than Deed. Do you find this relevant in your meta?

    Lastly, a singleton cycling land doesn't really make sense. Loam with cycling lands can be fantastic, but I'd run no less than 4.

    EDIT: AHHH, No Mox Diamond! Nothing like a turn one, "Counterspell"

  10. #50

    Re: CAB - JaceTM

    Wow, I haven't been here for far to long. I've been busy and somehow missed people still posting. Sorry about that. I'd respond to what was said but I suspect anything posted is far out of date by now.
    For those still interested in the deck, I luckily secured a writing spot in spite of being voted of the Talent Search, so you might want to check this out: http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/l..._CAB_Jace.html
    I don't have low self-esteem, I have low esteem for everyone else. -Daria

    Proud member of Team CAB
    High Priest of the Church of BLA

    CAB JaceTM

    My articles

  11. #51

    Re: CAB - JaceTM

    I was going to run this at my local legacy Tournament, but I tested it against Pox, which I usually run into during the tournament, but got my skull bashed in again and again. I was trying to defend myself but I couldn't because my hand was being slaughtered by hymns, duress and smallpox, while my manabase was being destroyed by 4 Vindicates, 4 Sinkholes, 4 Smallpox, 4 Wasteland (and 2 crucibles).

    Any tips on how to better this match up? I found Wish to be really clunky and slow in that match up, so I suppose I could sideboard them out for sdome dedicated hate such as Divert, or Spell Pierce?

    I'd really like to find a way to consistently beat said deck, as I bought the Mazes just to play this, and I want to use them! :P

    PS: Glad to see you back on SCG. That page needs more Eternal Articles, and you're a very talented writer.
    It's also scientifically proven that resolving Nicol Bolas during a competitive legacy event causes the caster's penis to grow a good two or three inches.
    Quote Originally Posted by sdematt View Post
    But winning out of nowhere takes away the fun of grinding out your opponents with Manlands. Nothing is more satisfying than a game of Magic where you throw away half the fun, and claim the other half for yourself and leave your opponent with zero fun.

  12. #52

    Re: CAB - JaceTM

    Same thing with the Mazes for me (though I still had two from back in the day) *G* . I'm happy to hear such devotion for a creation of mine :D

    Pox is really tough because of all the LD. Wish definitely comes out and I'd suggest running a bunch of Spell Pierces (helps against Combo, too) plus a Crucible or two in the SB. That should help keep them honest. Divert is more high-impact but doesn't stop Smallpox, not to mention that there really isn't any other matchup you'd really want it in. If you really want to hate on Pox, though, Divert and MisD are probably best, as well as an old favorite of mine: Teferi's Response. Pretty great because it not only counters the LD but also restocks your hand to compensate for the discard. It's also really solid against Goblins ports.

    PS: Thanks for the praise, it's always sweet to hear one's work is appreciated.
    I don't have low self-esteem, I have low esteem for everyone else. -Daria

    Proud member of Team CAB
    High Priest of the Church of BLA

    CAB JaceTM

    My articles

  13. #53

    Re: CAB - JaceTM

    I see you and you're teammate continue to make top 8 (according to deckdb.com). The next tournament you play in, could you write a report so we can see what decks you played against and how you fared? I think this would do good to increase the interest in the deck.
    It's also scientifically proven that resolving Nicol Bolas during a competitive legacy event causes the caster's penis to grow a good two or three inches.
    Quote Originally Posted by sdematt View Post
    But winning out of nowhere takes away the fun of grinding out your opponents with Manlands. Nothing is more satisfying than a game of Magic where you throw away half the fun, and claim the other half for yourself and leave your opponent with zero fun.

  14. #54
    Etherium is limited. Innovation is not.
    Hanni's Avatar
    Join Date

    Aug 2006
    Location

    Columbus, OH
    Posts

    2,818

    Re: CAB - JaceTM

    Spell Snare seems better for a Control deck like this. It still hits Hymn, Sinkhole, and Smallpox, but it can also keep Tarmogoyf, Qasali, Lord of Atlantis, Standstill, and a number of other problematic 2 drops from resolving. It's still valuable against combo, because it hits Infernal Tutor and Burning Wish. Spell Pierce might be great early if you're hitting with Wasteland, but they are really bad by midgame, and obviously this deck goes into the lategame.
    Sligh
    Echo Stompy
    /r Miracle Intuition
    Yorion's Intuition
    5c Hollow Vine

    Quote Originally Posted by MMogg View Post
    In porn terms, Zoo has a 11" shlong and an impressive money shot, but it's over in 4 minutes, whereas Landstill is a good 8" and can go for 30 minutes.

  15. #55

    Re: CAB - JaceTM

    Quote Originally Posted by Hanni View Post
    Spell Snare seems better for a Control deck like this. It still hits Hymn, Sinkhole, and Smallpox, but it can also keep Tarmogoyf, Qasali, Lord of Atlantis, Standstill, and a number of other problematic 2 drops from resolving. It's still valuable against combo, because it hits Infernal Tutor and Burning Wish. Spell Pierce might be great early if you're hitting with Wasteland, but they are really bad by midgame, and obviously this deck goes into the lategame.
    You mean in the board instead of Divert/Misdirection/Teferi's Response?

    EDIT: I will try Leyline of Sancity, which was an indicential advantage vs. Combo (bad match up) and burn (I've won but I was very lucky as I topdecked 4 counterspells in a draw in game 3. Pulse trumps them, but is too slow and you only have 2 wish).
    It's also scientifically proven that resolving Nicol Bolas during a competitive legacy event causes the caster's penis to grow a good two or three inches.
    Quote Originally Posted by sdematt View Post
    But winning out of nowhere takes away the fun of grinding out your opponents with Manlands. Nothing is more satisfying than a game of Magic where you throw away half the fun, and claim the other half for yourself and leave your opponent with zero fun.

  16. #56

    Re: CAB - JaceTM

    I'll write a report when I have slept for more than two hours and I'm not totally hung over. I threw away two complete rounds from dominating positions that I should have won easily by playing like an absolute tool. Not minor mistakes, either, things like "Forbid something I shouldn't even have countered, tapping all my white and Grove with two StP in hand and a Fire in the yard, keeping useless Volcs open. Opponent Vials in Ringleader, hits 4 Gobs, casts Warchief, Piledriver, hits me for 9" which left me a turn short of stabilizing with Fire anyway. Or having Jace in play for like 6 turns against Loam and not Brainstorming (worst strategy ever, which I usually know but for some reason ignored... not sure what I was thinking - probably nothing). I also caught myself at the last moment before EEing away my own Jace against Stax that had two useless Magus of the Tabernacle running into Mazes, and that's only a fraction of the moronity I exhibited. Having won the other three rounds is kind of a testament to the decks strength because I'd have definitely merited the 0-5 that day on playskill. Reading a report where the person plays like they've never touched Magic cards before isn't much fun, imo, so I'll wait for next time (and go to bed earlier).

    Spell Snare definitely is another solid option for the SB, I'm just used to Spell Pierce because it can counter combo's disruption so I usually prefer that.

    Leyline also sounds solid, as I think I mentioned in the other threat, though personally I prefer simply having more countermagic because Leyline doesn't answer the worst threads out of red (PoPand Sylvan, it should be GG against burn though) and doesn't do anything about Ad Nauseam itself. Being immune to Duress-effects against them is quite strong though, so this is definitely something that might turn out to be excellent.
    I don't have low self-esteem, I have low esteem for everyone else. -Daria

    Proud member of Team CAB
    High Priest of the Church of BLA

    CAB JaceTM

    My articles

  17. #57
    Member

    Join Date

    Jan 2011
    Location

    The Netherlands
    Posts

    122

    Re: CAB - JaceTM

    I would love to see your report Carsten. Are you planning on writing up soon?

    I've been playing your original list of CAB-Jace for a while and monitored this threat as well. All I can say that this deck is absolutely stunning. Treasure Hunt is king!
    My friend plays White Staxx and it's always a braincracker to get out of his early game drops. Though I must say that Smokestack isn't the big issue I'm dealing with, since mostly it's kept at 1 and barely sees a second counter. The issue is the Crucible/Wasteland lock and an eventual Armageddon.
    Canadian Threshold is a bitch, but very winnable. Cunning Wish to Extirpate is the best way to go, removing Mongoose if it's buried or taking out Stifles is key! Never worried about Goyf actually.

    As I can see you are piloting the Groveburn combo now, I wasn't very impressed by that turn. I've always loved Mishra's Factory, though I barely beat opponents down with it, it gives you the extra pack of defense until you stabilize and drop Jace.

    Basically the only change I made, was taking out 2 Firespouts and added 2 Ajani Vengeant.
    Unfortunately I haven't played any tribal/zoo matchups with this setup yet. I'm quite sure it will still perform pretty well versus these decks.
    Ajani just makes a lockpiece on its own, and occasionally pops out his Lightning Helix ability. It's lovely to keep an Aether Vial locked up, or a key land tapped. (Yes I know Aether Vial starts spitting in turn 2-3-4 but still, it locks up!)

    Anyway, I'll stop myself from ranting on, here's your list, though -2 Spout +2 Ajani Vengeant.
    All I can say is that I'm very impressed by Ajani and so far not missing the Firespout (still running a singleton, replacing it soon?).
    I'll be happy to face any tribal/zoo player with this setup and see how it goes.
    Made a minor change to the sideboard! Not sure about the Crypts though.

    Instant
    4 Swords to Plowshares
    4 Force of Will
    2 Forbid
    2 Cunning Wish
    4 Brainstorm

    Sorcery
    3 Treasure Hunt
    1 Firespout

    Artifact
    4 Engineered Explosives
    2 Sensei's Divining Top

    Land
    1 Island
    1 Mountain
    1 Plains
    2 Underground Sea
    2 Tundra
    2 Volcanic Island
    1 Tropical Island
    4 Scalding Tarn
    4 Flooded Strand
    4 Maze of Ith
    4 Mishra's Factory
    2 Wasteland
    1 Academy Ruins

    Planeswalker
    4 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
    2 Ajani Vengeant

    SIDEBOARD
    1 Hydroblast
    1 Dismantling Blow
    1 Pyroblast
    1 Red Elemental Blast
    2 Spell Pierce
    1 Forbid
    3 Extirpate
    1 Wing Shards
    2 Diabolic Edict
    2 Tormod's Crypt


    Oh by the way, first post!
    Last edited by Spigore; 01-26-2011 at 04:42 PM.

  18. #58

    Re: CAB - JaceTM

    In my humble opinion, a single Firespout is too random. I'd ran something else, something blue probably, to up the blue count. Or crucible. Ideas?
    It's also scientifically proven that resolving Nicol Bolas during a competitive legacy event causes the caster's penis to grow a good two or three inches.
    Quote Originally Posted by sdematt View Post
    But winning out of nowhere takes away the fun of grinding out your opponents with Manlands. Nothing is more satisfying than a game of Magic where you throw away half the fun, and claim the other half for yourself and leave your opponent with zero fun.

  19. #59
    Member

    Join Date

    Jan 2011
    Location

    The Netherlands
    Posts

    122

    Re: CAB - JaceTM

    Quote Originally Posted by The Treefolk Master View Post
    In my humble opinion, a single Firespout is too random. I'd ran something else, something blue probably, to up the blue count. Or crucible. Ideas?
    I totally agree with you, however, I'm not sure how to fill the slot.
    Dropping the Firespouts makes the tribal and zoo matchups are more tricky.
    Three wishes makes the board more accessible, and would make Tsabo's Decree interesting if you're alive-ish in turn 6 (or even 7-8 if you dropped two Mazes).
    Although naming Cat or Wizard won't net you much removal in Zoo. :)

    More input?

  20. #60

    Re: CAB - JaceTM

    Happy to see there are people playing the deck. Let me know how things turn out for you, what performs and what doesn't, etc. I hope the deck will be as much fun for you as it is for me (and as powerful).

    Concerning my report, I was rather referring to my state at the tournament, not while posting, so I probably won't write a report, rereading how someone plays like sh*t isn't all that entertaining and won't help anybody understand the deck. Not to mention I don't really remember enough of the tournament to write a solid report. Again, next time I'll be in better shape and let you know what happened.

    As for your decklist, seems like a solid variant of the decks original version even though I suspect you'll have some trouble with the tribal-decks without Firespout and an additional two four-drops. I'd run the ones you've removed in the sideboard at least.
    As to Ajani, I considered running him, too, but disliked his non-synergy with the Mazes. Once you have a Maze out, Ajani's tap-ability is harder to use effectively because you need to take a hit (or worse, have Ajani take a hit) to be able to tap opposing creatures down because if you don't Maze untaps them :/
    As to removing the last Firespout, personally I'd rather have another one in the main (probably in place of the second Ajani) :p If you want to cut it, though (maybe people play control all the time in your meta?), other options than those mentioned already you could try out are Pithing Needle (good even if it only protects Mazes), Trinket Mage (more EEs and SdTs) or Vindicate (Needle-protection and flexible removal). From what was mentioned already, especially in a version without Firespout, the third Cunning Wish with a Tsabo's Decree in the sideboard seems like a good idea. That way you at least have a way to clear out whatever attack-force remains if you get to six mana, compensating for the lack of Firespout. If you run a third Wish, I'd try to also get a FoF into the SB, being able to wish for carddraw is pretty useful with three Wishes which can otherwise have a tendency to clog up your hand.

    Finally, I urge anybody who wants to play this deck to at least try out the Punishing Fire engine. I enjoyed the Mishra's quite a bit, too, but recurring Fires are so insane, it's hard to believe they haven't achieved wider use in the format yet.
    I don't have low self-esteem, I have low esteem for everyone else. -Daria

    Proud member of Team CAB
    High Priest of the Church of BLA

    CAB JaceTM

    My articles

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)