Very nice reports nessaja!
I'm a little curious about your SB, why so much grave hate? Also, your wins against Zoo were pretty ungodly. 3 dudes available for NO on turn 3 every time.
Because you got about 8 spots left, you can either choose to deal with combo, or graveyard based decks (dredge mostly), I wasn't epecting combo so I went for the graveyard package, partly because I really like the Relic of Progenitus as well, good in so many MU's. Irony.. I didn't win against Dregdge, turn 1 wins are hard to deal with.
While it's true I won the Zoo matches with good hands (g3 with a very good hand) especially G3 I would've won even if I drew a Progenitus, once you got the mana production down Zoo has a hard time keeping up.
Another report from Tru3z3rox 2nd out of 22 updated into the primer.
What's your opinion regarding Viridian Zealot versus Viridian Shaman?
I'm using Zealot so far, because I feel good knowing that I have a maindeck answer for Moat, Solitary Confinement, and so on. However, these enchantments are pretty rare where I play.
Vials and Jittes, on the other side, are very common, and I've found myself a couple times having only 2 or 3 mana available agains an active Jitte, making Zealot useless. Besides, I can recurr Shaman with Symbiote, while Zealot is a one-shot.
Do you feel maindeck enchantment hate is needed? Why/Why not?
Thanks!
Remember that with the exception of Chalice, most artifacts can be played through or around whereas there's a lot of Enchantments that simply invalidates aggressive plans and see common maindeck play. Jitte and other equipment especially are easily negated by bouncing the blocker with Wirewood Symbiote prior to combat damage. I'd stick with Zealot unless you've got a smattering of Affinity and/or Stax running rampant in your meta.
Added some more results. Since The 5th of July there have been 10 reports from which 9 top 8. Considering only very few people play this deck I'm pretty amazed at that.
levarion - I'm playing maindeck enchantment hate in the form of terastodon. When you're going to add a one-off for Natural Order, you might as well make it a good one. Is it needed... depends entirely on how comfortable you are with giving up matchups you could otherwise potentially win. Good thing about Terastodon is that he also gets you out of other locks like Glacial Chasm or Solitary Confinement.
So here is the list im taking to GP this weekend:
3x Wasteland
14x Forest
1x Gaea's Cradle
4x Natural Order
1x Progenitus
4x Wren's Run Vanquisher
4x Elvish Archdruid
3x Elvish Champion
4x Imperious Perfect
4x Quirion Ranger
2x Wolf-Skull Shaman
4x Sylvan Messenger
4x Llanowar Elves
4x Priest Of Titania
4x Fyndhorn Elves
4x Sylvan Messenger
Sideboard
4x Krosan Grip
3x Tormod's Crypt
2x Relic of Progenitus
1x Terastodon
5x Open
I'm pretty set on the main deck (unless anyone has any ideas of how to fit in a joraga warcaller). But i need some help on the SB. So far i only have 10 cards and i need 5 more. Is 5 cards enough GY hate? Is the rise of landstill/enchantress/thopter combo for real and should i pack extra hate (back to nature, viridian zealot, etc)? Is it just me or does The Epic Storm seem to be making a comeback? Should i play thorn of amethyst/mindbreak trap/chalice of the void?
Thanks in advance for the help.
If you're using the WRV as a Wall that takes a target with it then [CARD]Thornweald Archer[/CARD] is a much better option, consider that it deals with flying cards which still can potentially be a problem. WRV is strong against Bant type of decks that don't deploy a lot of creatures. A 1vs1 trade actually matters here. Bant colored decks are typically the strongest matchup you can get as Elves, as such, you don't really need WRV. I personally dropped WRV a long time ago (pretty much when Dreadnought was on the decline) and never looked back.
But lets move to agruments
WRV
3/3
Only passive synergies with other elves (it doesn't add anything)
Trades 1 vs 1 against nearly all playable legacy creatures
Nearly uncastable as a topdeck
Dictates your playing order
The upside, that it trades 1vs1 against all creatures is so entirely neglectable when you have a deck that wins by means of swarming your opponent. A WSS that stays alive: creates 4 power and toughness every three turns, a WRV just sits there being a 3/3 it doesn't help the rest of your deck in any way. It's not great under a standstill, it's not good after a sweeper and it's not an amazing topdeck. Against Zoo it trades with their 1 drop or 2 drop, netting you no real tempo gain. Atleast WSS usually leaves a wolf behind after being removed, and lots of NO fodder.
Concerning your sideboard. You need to make a meta call and predict what you will be facing most. The meta is wide open and there's no data on what decks are currently dominating at all. 5 GY hate is enough against decks that aren't named Ichorid. If you're preparing for Lands and ***** decks then 5 cards is probably 2 too much.
If you fear combo then you'll need to spend all your leftover spots for just that matchup. Against TES board in your GY hate so you can force them to go off with Diminishing Returns. But even so, the most important thing is that you can field an army big enough to deal with ~20 Goblins.
There's still a lot of other combo out there in the form of Dream Halls and Show & Tell decks, you can't deal with those decks with just Thorns (grip against Dream Halls). But there's also Enchantress which requires [CARD]Back to Nature[/CARD] or a similar effect, which you won't have place for.
For meta, I predict a lot of board control decks (such as Enchantress, Staxx, Rock, and Landstill)
I think 4 gravehate cards is a good number. Although, I'll try to spread my gravehate out (like playing Leyline of the Voids and Faerie Macabre)
Dont be too worried against other aggro decks because we can actually race both Zoo and Goblins (especially if you have NOGenitus combo)
Thorn of Amethyst is a good call against combo.
Speaking of other sideboard slots and board control decks, try fitting Winter Orb on your side. You should have enough mana sources outside of lands, you could definitely survive an active Winter Orb. A lot of decks out there cannot. Its also a good sideboard card against Goblin and other mana-hungry decks.
I am convinced that WotC is "dumbing" the game because of all the stupid posts they come across on MTG-related forumsOriginally Posted by Kyle
Agreed with Nessaja. Terastodon is the only main deck answer you'll need. Whether you NO into him or hard cast him he blows up 3 problem cards or blows up your own excess lands for extra creatures. Grips and a reverent silence in the side.
I don't think 4 grave cards are enough. I always like having a good chance of drawing into them instead of mulling to 4 to find one. Hence I board in tons of grave hate as well. I've decided to punt the belcher match until new combo decks emerge.
Hey Nessaja, I was wondering what your current list was. I'm fond of Joraga Warcaller; but you seem to have had a lot of success with Tribal Forcemage. I'm curious.
What do you guys think about fitting in 4 Survival and 4 Vengevine? Am I being greedy or does that idea mean I might as well play Survival Elves? I just saw the list from the Grand Prix Top 8 and that UG Madness + Survival deck looked pretty nifty. Would stealing that engine even make the deck better? Or is that too unfocused?
God no. We can do much better then that when you resolve survival.
I doubt it even has a place in Elf Survival. It's good in a shell with both Survival and other discard outlets (Mongoose, Aquamoeba), without it's just subpar. Don't venture there.
@bakofried - my current list is somewhere close to the last tournament report I posted. Except I'm hardcore testing 2 Fauna Shaman in favor of 3 WSS, the first time in my life I'm playing a deck with 60 cards instead of 61 (lucky number..) but it seems to be working. Fauna Shaman might not be better but it shows promising results.
And yes, Tribal Forcemage all the way. I'm extremely happy with that card mostly because it gives a form of unblockability that works wonders against non-forest decks.
So, if i'm not mistaken, then this is something close to your current list?
4 Wasteland
2 Gaea's Cradle
14 Forest
4 L. Elves
4 F. Elves
4 Priest
4 Archdruid
4 Champion
4 Perfect
4 Messenger
4 WSS
3 Q. Ranger
1 Prog.
1 Forcemage
4 NO
Of course, that's abbreviated because it's directed at you. Once I get some Fauna Shamans, I'm thinking I might do some testing of my own. What i'm looking forward to most is a discard outlet when you topdeck a NO target.
Hey, no one has replied to the thread in a while. I had a few questions/discussion topics.
1. 16-lord merfolk is giving me a hard time. (mostly CCommander)
2. How is Fauna Shaman in testing?
3. What should you have in the board to deal with blue decks?
@bakofried
1: In my playtesting with the deck, Merfolk shouldn't really be a problem. But if your having trouble against the commander, you could try to play Jagged-Scar Archers. He can deal with Tombstalkers or other big flyers too.
2: In my opinion Fauna Shaman isn't worth the slots. I have found that the shaman is about the first creature to get destroyed, so Whenever she does stick, you are probably already winning anyhow. The only real use i've had for her was to sometimes discard my Progenitus, which is not nearly enough to keep her MB.
3: This depends on what kind of blue deck you're facing... Choke and Tsunami seem like the obvious choices though;)
I don't know. If they remove it before it has a chance to untap, doesn't that mean it's really good? I mean, the same happens with Goblin Lackey most of the time, but you don't see any goblin list abdicating Lackey because of it.
Whenever I played Fauna Shaman, she always seemed a little too slow.
With the mana that I invest into it, I would always much rather play more lords or other spells
that immediately further my board. With Fauna Shaman, you're required to wait a turn and spend
a net total of 3 mana before you can reap any of her benefits. In this time span that she takes
to activate, Fauna Shaman is especially fragile to removal.
Your argument with Goblin Lackey is partially true. But there is a small difference in the fact that lackey costs only 1 to play
while Fauna Shaman costs 2. Lackey trades tempo easily with the most commonly played
removal spells, swords to plowshare and lightning bolt. However, we lose tempo whenever a
Shaman is removed this way.
When she does stick, Fauna Shaman takes time for her to live up to her potential. In
a situation where you are out creatured, a token generating engine like wolf skull shaman would be
much more useful. In a situation where she does shine, I find that the board is usually already in a winning
position. There just haven't been many games for me where her presence helped to change the tide of the
battle.
fauna shaman < Wolf-Skull Shaman is card advantage and synergetical with NO and good against E.Plagues and stuff.
the new Scars of Mirrodin Legend Ezuri, Renegade Leader is sick!needs a priest,cradle or archdruid mostly. 1 activation for the kill is enough most of the times. you can also race/defend yourself against merfolk,zoo,goblins etc together with Copperhorn Scout(untaps all after your attack,next turn overrun again with priest/archdruid so he can't get through). the instant speed overrun is very useful with stuff like copperhorn/symbiote/quirion ranger. Im definitely gonna try out those 2 new elves :)
Definitely looking forward to Ezuri :], though not sure about the scout.
Vigilance for a turn probably isn't worth sacrificing a creature slot considering
it competes with all the other great cards we already have access to.
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