Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
Results 41 to 46 of 46

Thread: [Psuedo-Article] Ill-Gotten Pains

  1. #41

    Re: [Psuedo-Article] Ill-Gotten Pains

    This isn't dead-on topic to the discussion, but I just wanted to say that this was a really great article for me, a new Legacy player who is just getting into it post-ban.

    I was actually working on a list with my friend that I thought was original, but ended up being a variation of 2-color DDFT. Winning with Emrakul is just too cool.
    I'm a musician and would love your support.
    Please visit www.samandluke.com and check out the debut album, Standing in a Room!

    --- Decks that Storm ---
    --- Also Goblins for when I don't feel like thinking ARRGH GOBLINS ---

  2. #42
    I like Tacos.
    dahcmai's Avatar
    Join Date

    Jan 2006
    Location

    Traverse City, MI
    Posts

    2,202

    Re: [Psuedo-Article] Ill-Gotten Pains

    I have to side with Bryan on that Chrome Mox debate. Mainly just because of the way I play. I tend to play really intuitively and end up having a feel for the deck that way more than a numerical feel. It's odd. I tend to make card choices on what I want most after a ton of games just on whims. Hence you don't see me try to argue points much as I have nothing to back my arguments up with other than "it just feels right".

    The 4th Chrome Mox though has an obvious benefit to me. I proved the point just yesterday squeezing through a Diminishing Returns (I needed manas while storm too low) past 3 Force of Wills and a Daze. That sucked and I had 1 black floating when I cast that Returns. He could have Dazed the Returns leaving me with nothing floating. Now I think he probably should have and if he had Dazed that Returns I would have absolutely had to have a Mox to get out of it. I drew one. I would never want to decrease the odds of doing that.

    Ritual has it's bonuses also like being able to easily play past a Chalice @1 and go off ignoring it completely. I do like that bonus of that card. Though I think the trade off of being able to squeeze past a ton of counters and push through enough mana to keep going is a bigger benefit. Especially now, when I expect a ton of CB at Columbus.

    Though that's what Emrakul is for. Hell with packing Krosan grip, I hate trying to cast one of those when someone is sitting behind counters. They may not be able to counter the grip, but they gained too much time. I'd rather have the DD to just slap it out there. I'm so loving that trick, though it's easier and shores up more room in board if you just wish for it. I use an extra land as that Shelldock with Emakul himself still in the board. That way you can use that DD if need be for dumb things.

  3. #43

    Re: [Psuedo-Article] Ill-Gotten Pains

    I agree with Bryant on the 4th Chrome Mox and 4th Infernal Tutor as well. In fact, if you look at the maindeck that I suggest for TES, the only real differences are that I like the 2nd AdN over the maindeck ETW and instead of an 8th protection spell I run a 14th land (which can be sided out in non-LD matchups).

    One of the highlights of the 4s and 1s maindeck (which is largely what Bryant proposes ignore the 3/1 split on chant/silence), is its ultra low total mana cost. The total mana cost of the deck outside of the first AdN (which can never flip to itself) is 48 (the same as my maindeck). The gives you an average mana cost of just over 0.8 for the deck. This lets us draw more cards and the higher concentration of initial mana sources means that we will have to, on average draw fewer cards compared to lists with 2-3 Chrome Mox. This lets us use AdN in lower situations and contributes to the deck's effectiveness off Diminishing Returns. Further, Chrome Mox are important resources against tempo and ld decks such as New Horizons and Tempo Thresh.

    I agree with the Doomsday sideboard. I'm at 3 DD, 1 Shelldock, 1 Emrakul as my CB plan right now making the sideboard plan against stuff like NO Bant to be:

    -2 AdN
    -4 Rite of Flame

    +2 Doomsday
    +1 Shelldock isle
    +1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
    +1 Thoughtseize
    +1 Chain of Vapor
    BZK! - Storm Boards

    Been there, tried that, still casting Doomsday.
    Drawing my deck for 0 mana since 2013.

  4. #44
    *
    DarthVicious's Avatar
    Join Date

    Jun 2010
    Location

    Central NY
    Posts

    358

    Re: [Psuedo-Article] Ill-Gotten Pains

    I'd vote for more initial mana sources as well. Post-AdN that's really what you want to see. I even got to the point where I ran 3 Mox Diamond with 16 land. Mox Diamond is nice to have after AdN. 3 Mox Diamond, 4 Chrome Mox, 4 Lotus Petal. AdN almost always won the game.

    I still believe Doomsday is better though.

  5. #45
    Splitting time between Legacy, EDH and Alterations
    ivanpei's Avatar
    Join Date

    Sep 2007
    Location

    Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
    Posts

    1,202

    Re: [Psuedo-Article] Ill-Gotten Pains

    Sorry that I'm new here, but I'm not new to storm/TES. I 'm curious as to how doomsday from the board improves the slow blue MU. Essentially resolve doomsday -> shelldock/emrakul = I win regardless of counterbalance or not. The way I see it, you can slowly ramp lands to 3 and hard cast doomsday, or burning wish for doomsday and cast it the next turn, or just fetch it with infernal/burning wish. The combo also costs 2 mana less which lets you take out accelerants (rite of flame) from the deck and lets you play chant/ duress before going off with less mana contraints. The deck however, gains 2 dead cards you prefer not to draw (shelldock, emrakul) with 1 pretty disastrous to draw (emrakul). If you draw emrakul, you need to resolve brainstorm or thoughtseize targeting yourself. You also fold to wasteland (which obviously you wont board in the combo in that MU) or a lethal swing on the following turn (so fast blue lists are a no no). So is this trade off worth it?

    In my opinion, shelldock less board (board out accelerants board in REB, thoughtseize, bounce) still has to go all in, even if you draw the Ad nauseum. This is due to the pressure you receive for having to go off before counterbalance hits the table. Assuming your competent opponent can land a counterbalance on turns 4-5, it will be difficult to cast a Ad nauseum without having to go accelerator, accelerator, chant/duress, wish/tutor/adn before turns 4-5. So double force WILL screw you over. IMO, with doomsday, you can burning wish for dday turn 2, then on turn 3 play it either off lands, or a ritual. If it gets countered, you can still live, having more accelerants in hand. Or on the contrary, if you have the infernal tutor, you can tutor and get another copy from your deck. This allows you to double doomsday on consecutive turns. Playing a protected doomsday (with chant before hand) is also easier as it costs 4 mana instead of the 6 for Adn. It just seems playing dday from the board for the landstill/countertop matchup seems better. I'm favoring the dday sideboard at the moment. Please let me know if I'm missing anything. Thanks!

  6. #46

    Re: [Psuedo-Article] Ill-Gotten Pains

    Quote Originally Posted by ivanpei View Post
    The deck however, gains 2 dead cards you prefer not to draw (shelldock, emrakul) with 1 pretty disastrous to draw (emrakul). If you draw emrakul, you need to resolve brainstorm or thoughtseize targeting yourself.
    You can also discard+reshuffle Emrakul by cracking LED in response to Bwish or Dday. You don't draw Emrakul very often and he's usually not that hard to get rid of if you do draw him.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aggro_zombies View Post
    In porn terms, it's sort of like being a dominatrix versus being the dude who gets the ball gag, tied to the bed, and whipped for half an hour.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)