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Thread: [Deck] Spanish Inquisition (B/x Storm Combo)

  1. #41

    Re: [Deck] Spanish Inquisition (B/x Storm Combo)

    You can play summoner's pact and land grant in the same list at least my list incorporates both as 4 ofs quite effectively. I just put it together and goldfished it today and it was getting a lot of turn 1 kills when I goldfished it. I really like summoner's pact though, the card is just amazing with LED and it combos so well with the rest of the deck when you use it as a tutor for slithermuse, cracking LED in response for UUU is probably going to leave you with some mana floating after you cast the slithermuse in the form of black mana usually because summoner's pact into slithermuse is just so powerful a play and generates so much storm as well as card advantage, because lets face it on turn 1 if you slithermuse against someone its like a one sided wheel of fortune or it says draw 5 cards for 3U which is extremely powerful in Pact Land Grant SI. And if you can leave a blue floating you can potentially recur slithermuse with eternal witness also very powerful but maybe overkill when you can simply return an infernal tutor or another draw4 or something to continue the spell chain into a lethal tendrils or a belcher activation.

    Also Duke Knight trying to incorporate a man plan and protection plan into one sideboard sounds iffy. I'd either go all out protection plan or all out man plan with 4 urami's, 4 tombstalker's, 4 phylactery lich, and 3 death's shadow. Incorporating both makes the overall plan weaker against certain decks. Then again I could be wrong and both could be incorporated, I'm not claiming to be the expert on all things concerning SI since I recently picked up the deck myself.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vacrix
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  2. #42
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    Re: [Deck] Spanish Inquisition (B/x Storm Combo)

    Summoner's Pact can only seach for a green creature, be mindful of that. It cannot be used as a Slithermuse tutor, otherwise you would indeed have the most broken draws.

    But i do agree that Muse on the play is perhaps one of if not the strongest play the deck can make.

  3. #43
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    Re: [Deck] Spanish Inquisition (B/x Storm Combo)

    Yes, you cannot Pact--> Slithermuse. Pact gets you Wild Cantor if you want to make that play but thats all. I've dropped one Xantid from the maindeck in favor of Cantor ATM. Its been better overall. For the record, I frequently make the play to recur Slithermuse post-D7 with Eternal Witness. I've been making this play a lot too. Diabolic Intent/Infernal Tutor + LED is beast.
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  4. #44

    Re: [Deck] Spanish Inquisition (B/x Storm Combo)

    Yep that is definitely me misreading summoner's pact. It can only get green creatures. *sigh* no wonder I was winning so much games turn 1 because pacting for slithermuse with LED on board is just bah roken as hell but an illegal play. I'll be changing my list to include diabolic intents right now, seems essential being able to tutor for slithermuse or whatever card you need and having sick synergy with LED as well all know. Wild cantor should probably be in my list as well, as a 1 of because it generates storm and sacks for any color of mana specifically blue mana for slithermuse.
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    Lands is a joke for Solidarity. Its like asking a morbidly obese parapalegic to run the mile with his shoes tied.

  5. #45
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    Re: [Deck] Spanish Inquisition (B/x Storm Combo)

    Here is my current list. I guess it would fall into the "SITES" catagory.

    // Lands
    2 [A] Bayou

    // Creatures
    4 [LG] Kobolds of Kher Keep
    4 [PLC] Simian Spirit Guide
    3 [LG] Crimson Kobolds

    // Spells
    4 [7E] Infernal Contract
    4 [PT] Cruel Bargain
    4 [EX] Culling the Weak
    4 [A] Dark Ritual
    4 [TE] Lotus Petal
    4 [MI] Lion's Eye Diamond
    4 [MR] Chrome Mox
    4 [TO] Cabal Ritual
    3 [DIS] Infernal Tutor
    4 [MM] Land Grant
    1 [TSP] Empty the Warrens
    1 [SC] Tendrils of Agony
    2 [MR] Goblin Charbelcher
    4 [JU] Burning Wish

    // Sideboard
    SB: 1 [DIS] Infernal Tutor
    SB: 1 [TSP] Empty the Warrens
    SB: 1 [SC] Tendrils of Agony
    SB: 4 [SC] Xantid Swarm
    SB: 3 [M11] Duress
    SB: 1 [M11] Time Reversal
    SB: 1 [US] Ill-Gotten Gains
    SB: 1 [NE] Reverent Silence
    SB: 1 [GP] Shattering Spree
    SB: 1 [10E] Deathmark

  6. #46
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    Re: [Deck] Spanish Inquisition (B/x Storm Combo)

    I just started goldfishing this list:

    4 Verdant Catacombs
    1 Bayou
    1 Dryad Arbor

    4 Elvish Spirit Guide
    1 Eternal Witness
    1 Slithermuse
    1 Odious Trow
    1 Tinder Wall
    1 Wild Cantor

    4 Lion's Eye Diamond
    4 Lotus Petal
    4 Chrome Mox

    4 Dark Ritual
    4 Cabal Ritual
    4 Culling the Weak
    2 Manamorphose

    3 Tendrils of Agony
    4 Infernal Tutor
    4 Infernal Contract
    4 Cruel Bargain
    4 Summoner's Pact

    I never played any form of Storm Combo before but this list is fun as hell to play. I haven't tested against any decks yet, so I haven't noticed the relevance of lacking MD Xantid, so any advice on that would be appreciated. Also, Manamorphose is always awkward when I draw it, I want to replace it with something else but I don't know what. 2 Xantids seems like a good call, but where to I put the other 2 Xantids? I really like having Wild Cantor, he helps to fix mana and Storm like Manamorphose, but it's tutorable so you don't often draw it when you don't want it (compared to never wanting to draw Manamorphose, ever!).

    Also, I have no clue where to start with the sideboard. I like the idea of a man-plan (with Phylactery Lich, he's an awesome card), but I don't know where to start since I haven't played any matchups. I'm pretty certain this deck can rock every single deck in the format pre-board (except U.dec), but I don't know for certain if there are any non-U decks to worry about.

    Obviously sideboarding is important against blue decks, so a little insight on strategy against popular, problematic archetypes. I'm assuming that a man-plan SB and a regular SB play differently so an example of each with a basic explanation would be useful.

    I'm not sure if any of this is in the primer but if it is I missed it, so feel free to point it out if so. If not, any advice would be appreciated!

    Also, opinions of Leyline of Sanctity? This seems like GG to us, so how do we play around it?

  7. #47
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    Re: [Deck] Spanish Inquisition (B/x Storm Combo)

    Quote Originally Posted by jrsthethird View Post
    Also, opinions of Leyline of Sanctity? This seems like GG to us, so how do we play around it?
    Unless I'm missing the revelation I dont see this card showing up in high numbers of archetypes. And the man-plan just ignores it anyways. IF (and thats a big if) it became a major problem, there is always something like Nature's Claim I guess.
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  8. #48
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    Re: [Deck] Spanish Inquisition (B/x Storm Combo)

    Quote Originally Posted by jrsthethird View Post
    I just started goldfishing this list:

    4 Verdant Catacombs
    1 Bayou
    1 Dryad Arbor

    4 Elvish Spirit Guide
    1 Eternal Witness
    1 Slithermuse
    1 Odious Trow
    1 Tinder Wall
    1 Wild Cantor

    4 Lion's Eye Diamond
    4 Lotus Petal
    4 Chrome Mox

    4 Dark Ritual
    4 Cabal Ritual
    4 Culling the Weak
    2 Manamorphose

    3 Tendrils of Agony
    4 Infernal Tutor
    4 Infernal Contract
    4 Cruel Bargain
    4 Summoner's Pact

    I never played any form of Storm Combo before but this list is fun as hell to play. I haven't tested against any decks yet, so I haven't noticed the relevance of lacking MD Xantid, so any advice on that would be appreciated. Also, Manamorphose is always awkward when I draw it, I want to replace it with something else but I don't know what. 2 Xantids seems like a good call, but where to I put the other 2 Xantids? I really like having Wild Cantor, he helps to fix mana and Storm like Manamorphose, but it's tutorable so you don't often draw it when you don't want it (compared to never wanting to draw Manamorphose, ever!).

    Also, I have no clue where to start with the sideboard. I like the idea of a man-plan (with Phylactery Lich, he's an awesome card), but I don't know where to start since I haven't played any matchups. I'm pretty certain this deck can rock every single deck in the format pre-board (except U.dec), but I don't know for certain if there are any non-U decks to worry about.

    Obviously sideboarding is important against blue decks, so a little insight on strategy against popular, problematic archetypes. I'm assuming that a man-plan SB and a regular SB play differently so an example of each with a basic explanation would be useful.

    I'm not sure if any of this is in the primer but if it is I missed it, so feel free to point it out if so. If not, any advice would be appreciated!

    Also, opinions of Leyline of Sanctity? This seems like GG to us, so how do we play around it?
    IDK why you wouldn't want to draw Manamorphose ever. The deck has green mana falling out of its ass. As long as you have black floating, and either ESG or Pact, you should have the green to color fix. Actually Manamorphose is rarely dead in my hand. I can't recall a time when I couldnl't cast it when I needed to. If you don't like it though, play something else in its place. Also, I wouldn't recommend running so many tallmen unless you plan on taking advantage of them. Odious Trow and Cantor are usually redundant. Tinderwall is alright but its better if you are running Burning Wish, which is pretty powerful:

    DSI:
    Business (18)
    1 Tendrils of Agony
    1 Slithermuse
    4 Infernal Tutor
    4 Burning Wish
    4 Infernal Contract
    4 Cruel Bargain

    Mana: (42)
    1 Wild Cantor
    4 Summoner's Pact
    4 Elvish Spirit Guide
    4 Lion's Eye Diamond
    4 Lotus Petal
    3 Tinder Wall
    4 Dark Ritual
    4 Cabal Ritual
    4 Culling the Weak
    4 Chrome Mox
    4 Verdant Catacombs
    1 Bayou
    1 Dryad Arbor

    SB
    1 Diminishing Returns
    1 Balance of Power
    1 Tendrils of Agony
    1 Meltdown
    1 Deathmark
    4 Empty the Warrens
    4 Xantid Swarm
    2 Carpet of Flowers

    Not finalized but here's something for people to test. Direlemming is still playing around with a good build, slightly different than mine with great results, no fizz's and 70% turn 1's. LED's are absolutely nuts. Tinderwalls give you access to a lot of red, which is great post-board when you need someway to cast EtW. Direlemmnig list looks like this:
    Results so far have been very encouraging. We have sufficient bomb density and ability to generate initial mana from non-land sources, that IGG is almost never a dead draw, be it opening 7 or mid chain.

    Current list:

    Business (19)
    1 Tendrils of Agony
    1 Slithermuse
    4 Infernal Tutor
    4 Burning Wish
    4 Infernal Contract
    3 Cruel Bargain
    1 Ill Gotten Gains
    1 Eternal Witness

    Mana: (41)
    1 Wild Cantor
    4 Summoner's Pact
    4 Elvish Spirit Guide
    4 Lion's Eye Diamond
    4 Lotus Petal
    2 Tinder Wall
    4 Dark Ritual
    4 Cabal Ritual
    4 Culling the Weak
    1 Skyshroud Cutter
    3 Chrome Mox
    4 Land Grant
    1 Bayou
    1 Dryad Arbor

    SB
    4 Xantid Swarm
    1 Diminishing Returns
    1 Balance of Power
    1 Tendrils of Agony
    1 Empty the Warrens
    1 Cruel Bargain/IGG
    1 Grape Shot
    4 Carpet of Flowers
    1 Duress

    Following the success of IGG main, I'm testing if it's worth a slot in the wishboard as well. Probably in place of D4.

    I'm pushing 70% T1 with this list; no fizzles in the last 50 games, even on a mulligan to 4. Keep in mind it's impossible to separate me becoming a better SI pilot from actual deck improvements. It may well be, some past incarnation is objectively (or for your playstyle) better. The other issue with my results is, they are mostly goldfishing which can lead to optimizing for the wrong qualities. My thinking here is, being a glass cannon has more to do with (in)consistency than strategy.
    Skyshroud Cutter is an interesting choice. Its basically a green kobold. Your opponent gaining 6 life is trivial when you are normally playing tendrils for 30+ on turn 1. Maindeck IGG is a playstyle choice. I also prefer to keep the full playset of D4's maindeck.
    Luck is a residue of design.



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  9. #49
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    Re: [Deck] Spanish Inquisition (B/x Storm Combo)

    At the above post, if it's pushing 70% kill turn 1, how many of those are caused by grabbing Diminishing Returns? When I play the deck I find that's a pretty common play, and it's really risky, giving them a second chance to draw a FoW or Daze. Also, what do you count Slithermuse and the sorcery in the wish board as? Do I draw upto 7 again?

  10. #50
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    Re: [Deck] Spanish Inquisition (B/x Storm Combo)

    Well against control it depends. You don't need to grab Dreturns against control if you can just go EtW for 20 tokens, which is often the case with PSI. If you played Summoner's Pact, you are in a win now situation. Burning Wish flexible in that respect. Also, Balance of Power is there against control as a virtual Slithermuse to avoid the possibility of your opponent drawing a second FoW.

    I'm not sure what you mean by your last question. Slithermuse is Slithermuse in both lists. Direlemming prefers having access to both IGG and Slithermsue with IT. I prefer opening up that extra slot for an additional Tinderwall, and prefer the extra D4 for the full double playset.
    Luck is a residue of design.



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  11. #51
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    Re: [Deck] Spanish Inquisition (B/x Storm Combo)

    I see. What I meant by the last question though is that if I'm goldfishing and I go IT->LED->Slithermuse, do I assume my opponent is still at 7 and draw upto that many cards? What if it's turn 2 or 3, what's the rule for how many cards Slithermuse nets? I draw upto 7 on the play turn one, but after that I go -2 a turn as my rule, and Slithermuse loses a lot of its effectiveness.

  12. #52
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    Re: [Deck] Spanish Inquisition (B/x Storm Combo)

    Well if you are on the play then your opponent will probably have 7 cards in hand unless they mulligan. I usually first draw 5 cards whenever I use it to try to see if I can go off with only 5. Even if you are passing the turn on the play, your opponent will draw an extra card so even if they play land creature, you will still draw 6.
    Last edited by Vacrix; 07-16-2010 at 02:50 PM. Reason: Translated. Shpongolese-->English
    Luck is a residue of design.



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    Expect me or die. I play SI.

  13. #53
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    Re: [Deck] Spanish Inquisition (B/x Storm Combo)

    Unanswerable leylines that singlehandedly prevent us from winning are not acceptable. An opponent willing to mulligan down to one if necessary has a 87% chance of putting the game away on turn 0. This is a theoretical probability, not an empirical result inflated by players' chronic inability to truly randomise their decks. So... blow them away in game 1, and they still have a 75% chance of walking away with the match on the back of a mere 4 sideboard cards.
    We shouldn't allow opponents to let the game degenerate in their favour - that's our job when playing fast combo.

    Fortunately, it's not a big issue for many versions. Red versions have Empty the Warrens and Burning Wishes. Versions that can draw the entire deck (enabled by something like multiple Glimpse of Nature or Null Profusion) can defeat it without going overboard with answers.

    *

    Regarding limited man plans: I don't like real creatures here. Tombs may be an option if you need more initial mana sources as well, Wishes can fetch other useful stuff in a pinch. Death Wish for Death's Shadow makes the latter immediately castable and it's quite good considering how much control SI has over its life total.

  14. #54
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    Re: [Deck] Spanish Inquisition (B/x Storm Combo)

    Quote Originally Posted by Vacrix View Post
    Well if you are on the play then yoru pppoent usuallys drso liek 6 acrds cause theyl darw na eactra. otherswis i usualldy traw 7 cadrds.
    Best. Typing. Ever.
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  15. #55
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    Re: [Deck] Spanish Inquisition (B/x Storm Combo)

    Quote Originally Posted by yankeedave View Post
    Best. Typing. Ever.
    Sorry lol. I probably shouldn't have said anything. I can't type to save my life after a good night of beer pong.

    @Iranon
    People have established in most threads about that leyline that its bad. I don't think we will run into it, for the reasons you mentioned. EtW is an acceptable alternative if we can't just remove it. Reverent Silence from the Wishboard is also a decent answer.
    Luck is a residue of design.



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  16. #56

    Re: [Deck] Spanish Inquisition (B/x Storm Combo)

    Quote Originally Posted by yankeedave View Post
    Best. Typing. Ever.
    Methinks someone hit a spot of the sauce last night... Lol

    EDIT: Gawddamn ninjas!!

    DOUBLE EDIT: @Iranon: I think the Death Wish for Death's Shadow idea is kind of intriguing... But I can't really tell at first blush if it's cute as a fox, or well... just cute. Anyways, I'm interested what your argument against the man plan sideboard option is. You mention that you don't like it, but why not? Takes up too much space in the sideboard? Not effective in our problem match-ups? I'll buy that you probably have a good reason, I'm just curious what it is. And it seems to me that Tomb of Urami, and maybe to a somewhat lesser extent, Phylactery Lich, are pretty good options for us.
    Bless your heart, we must consider Blue/White Tempo's strategy and win percentages in an entirely different deck thread. -4eak

  17. #57
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    Re: [Deck] Spanish Inquisition (B/x Storm Combo)

    Actually Death Wish for Death's Shadow post-D4 isn't that bad. It would be an 8/8 for B. Thats actually a pretty good oh shit button if you think about it.
    In general the man plan has been made a much weaker option because people keep their removal in for Xantid Swarm. The thing is your opponent can't have removal and countermagic for everything. We might want to explore it again. Its still unconventional even if people know about it. The majority of players who encounter storm will expect some kind of discard suite post-board or something.
    Luck is a residue of design.



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  18. #58
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    Re: [Deck] Spanish Inquisition (B/x Storm Combo)

    @ DukeDemonKn1ght: I don't like weakening Plan A (Tendrils to the face, preferably on turn 1), and if I do so I'd prefer the inclusion to save my bacon in a variety of situation.

    A midsized creature doesn't help plan A at all and is rather narrow effect. Tomb of Urami is also an initial mana source so it has a place in plan A. Against decks that can attack our initial mana or that trade card for card without putting the game away, having more permanent mana sources is a major asset.
    Similarly, Death Wish can fetch a midsized creature if that's all what we want from it, but it can also conclude plan A by fetching a lethal Tendrils or high-end business, or get rid of roadblocks making Plan A possible in the first place.

  19. #59

    Re: [Deck] Spanish Inquisition (B/x Storm Combo)

    So, has anyone tried putting together a list that runs Death Wish? I'm tinkering with the idea myself right now, basically in a Land Grant type of shell, but it doesn't quite make sense to me yet. Also, I'm having a hard time finding space for the full playset of Death Wish in the main deck... Any thoughts from anyone what a "DWSI" list would look like?

    Or is Death Wish just not strong enough compared to Burning Wish to actually be worth it? (Besides letting you wish for Goblin Charbelcher, Autumn's Veil, Xantid Swarm, Tomb of Urami, Death's Shadow, and Slithermuse, I can't think of other things that Burning Wish couldn't grab. And I'm not entirely sure how many of the cards I just mentioned are juicy wish-targets anyways...)

    EDIT: Also, on a different note, has anyone tried fucking around with Veteran Explorer as a one-of in a Summoner's Pact based list? He's probably pretty risky against control, since you may give them the relevant mana to set-up or to counter one of your spells.... Also, he would require squeezing two basic lands into the list, but that in itself doesn't seem so impossible. But against any other deck, it seems pretty sweet to have a creature that gives you free acceleration when he hits the grave, especially since the two basics will give you fodder to try to go off again if you need to. Is it just too much of a corner-case scenario, or am I actually onto something here?
    Bless your heart, we must consider Blue/White Tempo's strategy and win percentages in an entirely different deck thread. -4eak

  20. #60
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    Re: [Deck] Spanish Inquisition (B/x Storm Combo)

    In general, you ought to run Burning Wish over Death Wish. SI can do disgusting things with both, but getting access to red isn't particularly difficult when you have Fetchlands, Lotus Petals, and SSG's in a list like SITES. I think a few people have successfully run 1-2 Death Wish maindeck.

    Veteran Explorer is certainly intriguing. The good thing about him is that he finds you lands even if your Culling the Weak or Diabolic Intent gets countered. In general, though, I haven't been too impressed so far with Lands in PSI. Even in goldfishing, its just hasn't been worth it. He's mad mana advantage if you also have a sacrifice outlet in hand and could make the land build more viable. I think the Land Grant/Belcher configuration is actually much better against control.

    On the topic of Veteran Explorer, consider the following:
    Lotus Petal, Dark Ritual, Cruel Bargain, ESG, Pact, Pact, Culling the Weak
    Pact--> Veteran Explorer (VE), ESG--> VE, Lotus Petal, Culling the Weak, fetch Swamp Swamp, (BBB,BBB) floating...

    The only problem with this play is that Pact + ESG effectively adds you 2 additional black to your mana pool so its effectively just converting GG into BB, but we can already do that with Manamorphose, and we get to draw a card. So its not a bad play but you have to think about the opportunity costs here. What cards are you giving up to play 1 VE and 2 Swamps? Swamps are usually going to be dead while you are trying to chain D4's together and VE will only be good if you have enough sac outlets. Usually you will only hit one land drop with SI because you are constantly going off turn 1, especially with PSI. I don't think its worth it, but feel free to test it and see how it goes.
    Luck is a residue of design.



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