Apologies for double posting, but I've been experimenting with SI this weekend and I think there is room to innovate, one of the things that occured to me when reading thru' the thread is that Land Grant is a liability compared to Fetch Lands and that Goblin Charbelcher isn't actually worth weaking your manabase to counter magic or playing a maximum of 6 "Land" between Bayou, Dryad Arbor and 4 Land Grant. If you replace Land Grant with Fetchlands and increase the number of Fetchlands beyond 4 and the number of Bayou beyond 1 you can increase the number of initial mana sources, land drops and culling targets in the deck, which makes it both more consistent and resilient. The problem comes in where you start chaining Draw 4s and realize Culling the Weak is dead after your first Dryad Arbor is sacrificed or after you've played Bayou and can't make a second land drop for Dryad Arbor on the same turn, which is where Summoners Pact comes in to make the extra creature drops. Then what occurred to me was that multiple Elvish Spirit Guides take up more space than they're really worth as accelerants compared to adding more and more lands and we could cut down to 1 ESG and 1 Cutter and with a combination of 11 forests and 5 virtual cutters that Burnt Offering is really close in power to Culling the Weak when you can reliably get down the forest.
So I'm messing around on apprentice and came up with a build that tests some of the possible configurations,
4 Tendrils of Agony
1 Ill Gotten Gains
4 Infernal Tutor
4 Cruel Bargain
4 Infernal Contract
4 Dark Ritual
4 Culling the Weak
4 Burnt Offering
4 Summoners Pact
4 Skyshround Cutter
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
4 Chrome Mox
8 Fetchlands
3 Bayou
Imagine the original spanish inquisition just switching out robots for cutters and disruption for lands and I think you can get close to a deck that plays, Bayou, Cutter and either Culling the Weak or Burnt Offering as its first turn play pretty consistently. You could integrate other elements into the deck by SBing in 4 Cabal Ritual, an Elvish Spirit Guide, a Dryad Arbor, a Deathrite Shaman and SBing out 4 Burnt Offering 3 Cutters in order to increase the utility of the fetchlands and summoners pact or cut pact altogether and try running Xantid Swarms in match ups with minimal removal spells in order to hit a double land drop, attack and sac Xantid Swarm and then hold the B/G mana back for possibly needing to cast another Xantid Swarm for a sac outlet.
I'm not really sure how well the idea is going to hold up, but I think it's kind of interesting to just concentrate on Tendrils so you can drop Land Grant and try to increase the number of initial mana sources and tutors for Dryad Arbor and I don't think I've seen anybody suggest going this route before.
Hi!
I was just wondering if you could tell an in-depth guide for siding against different decks with your present sideboard Vacrix? Like what is going out and what is going in, or is it just usual -15 out and +15 in when you meet Force of Wills and maybe other counterspells? I am playing against different kinds of blue decks, so I was wondering do you side differently against combo, control and aggro-control. I'm asking this because I'm thinking that I could get my hands on Lotus Blooms so I'd try your grind plan against all kinds of blue decks.
At this moment I have exact decklist as your opening post, but my sideboard differs just a little:
4 Duress
4 Carpet of Flowers
3 Thoughtseize
2 Empty the Warrens
1 Taiga
1 balustrade spy
I have one Balustrade spy because of Oops, all spells! -deck. I've seen that it is much easier to kill by T1 than Spanish Inquisition. It's like Belcher with the speed of SI. And because the matchup is pretty much forcing a T1 kill (or you could of course side in Thoughtseizes and duresses, but in some cases one discard isn't going to stop them from winning next turn so I don't think this is valid option.), Balustrade Spy becomes much easier and smoother T1 kill than any other thing against it. You need Initial, Dark Ritual, LED and Tutor to pull off a T1 kill against that deck. And yeah, this deck type is actually surprisingly common here! (some tournaments had 2 of those decks out of 14)
I'm gonna test it.Originally Posted by Final Fortune
You don't have Dryad Arbor in your list? I like Burnt Offering, but is it worth it for so few sac-targets?
Just looking at the list;
I'm a bit worried about how you could empty your hand effectively enough to storm with Infernal Tutor, when you keep drawing lands or simply have more than one.
This could make storming trickier if you're aiming for going off on turn 1.
Anyways, see how I go.
Did a fair bit of testing Final Fortune;
And whilst I think elements of your idea have merit - I'm still not too happy about the amount of lands.
I've stalled with too many lands in my hand quite a few times, unable to combo out with a tutor even though I've had the bomb hand staring back at me.
Hmm...
Why don't you drop 4 fetches for 4 Land Grant? They do exactly the same thing, except you can play multiple Land Grants in a turn by just failing to find a land. With 7 lands you're still going to draw multiples sometimes, but at least it'll be somewhat less frequent.
FinalFortune - cool looking list! I'm going to try goldfishing it some.
Languages and dates for every set. For all you true pimps.
Some combination of Fetch Land and Land Grant could be optimal for gold fishing, but Fetch Land is going to be a better play than Land Grant in a real game because you can sit on your Fetch Land in order to build a mana base and you don't have to reveal your strategy to your opponent.
I'm not certain that 4 Skyshroud Cutter and Burnt Offering is correct, cutting a Bayou for a Dryad Arbor gives 8 Fetch Land and 4 Summoner's Pact a tutor for Culling the Weak fodder and an Elvish Spirit Guide gives the deck a virtual 5 Elvish Spirit Guides to help cast Cabal Rituals to the point where I think reducing the total number of Skyshroud Cutter and Burnt Offering in order to emphasize the Culling the Weak plan is probably more consistent, if less explosive.
This could be interesting for example,
4 Tendrils of Agony
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Past in Flames
4 Infernal Tutor
4 Inferal Contract
4 Cruel Bargain
4 Land Grant
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Bayou
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Culling the Weak
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
4 Chrome Mox
4 Summoner's Pact
1 Elvish Spirit Guide
1 Skyshroud Cutter
1 Deathrite Shaman
Apolpgize for the question, but Just training myself for a small tournament next sunday. I expect a few miracle, BUG,canadian( tempo UGR) maybe esperblade, and some rogue deck (maybe Storm)..
Wondering if Quasi-SI will perform better .. how do you think about bug & ugr MU?
Also, the primer's lists will be fine or it is outdated?
Thks, i'll post some impression after more testingi
I've not heard a single report of anyone having success with QSI.Apolpgize for the question, but Just training myself for a small tournament next sunday. I expect a few miracle, BUG,canadian( tempo UGR) maybe esperblade, and some rogue deck (maybe Storm)..
Wondering if Quasi-SI will perform better .. how do you think about bug & ugr MU?
Also, the primer's lists will be fine or it is outdated?
Thks, i'll post some impression after more testing
PSI with the grind plan, or the Robot list perhaps with the 'man-plan' sideboard would almost certainly serve you better.
You'll find a more active discussion of this deck on MTGSalvation.
I played SI-like deck in a small Legacy tournament yesterday, a dozen of ppl or so came to "that other LGS" for four rounds of swiss. (There are two LGS in our city, the small one that helds T1,5 on Mondays and some 10-15 ppl come, while the other helds T1,5 on Thursdays with approx. 20+ ppl coming. The second LGS has a bit better prize structure, too.)
A small notes before proceeding to decklist and report:
I play Magic for nearly two decades, and for the past several years I play exclusively Legacy. I got quite some collection, nothing special, but I may choose from several tier1 decks, including (but not limited to) RUG, Dredge, ANT, DDFT, etc. But even though I got alll these decks available, I don't have much success in past months, namely because I stopped to play(test) MtG and because there's hardly a deck I really like enough to force myself into master(bat)ing it. Mostly I play ANT, but the hate is amazing today, also ppl finally learned to play against it.
With this in mind, I decided that in the future I may still finish the tournaments with my usual "1:3", "0:2 drop" results, but this time I might have some fun with the unusual, bizzare and outright bed decks. So I unsleeved RUG, ANT and etc., and on that moment Bed Decks Player was born.
On decklist - I built the deck from what I've got, I just rode to the bigger store for the fourth Veteran Explorer ('cause they listed it as a Weatherlight one, of course it wasn't) and the last Land Grant that I was lazy to search for. The whole playtesting consisted of dozen goldfishes with perfect-sized deck mising the two cards, then I grabbed the finally "tuned" pack, thrown it into Ultra Pros and rushed to the city.
2x Forest
1x Swamp
1x Dryad Arbor
1x Bayou
1x Tropical Island
4x Xantid Swarm
4x Veteran Explorer
4x Elvish Spirit Guide
3x Cabal Therapy
4x Lotus Petal
4x Lion's Eye Diamond
4x DarkRitual
4x Cabal Ritual
4x Culling the Weak
4x Infernal Contract
2x Cruel Bargain
4x Meditate
4x Land Grant
4x Infernal Tutor
2x Tendrils of Agony
________
3x Chain of Vapor
4x Dread of Night
3x Duress
1x Cabal Therapy
4x Carpet of Flowers
As you might see, it's a mutant of SI and QSI, missing what makes both good and having what makes both crappy. The main idea was to not spend money for cards like Pact or Intent and rather play with what I got to see how the deck overally works. I liked the idea of tall men doing useful stuff before saccing them. Also maindeck Swarm was a troll atempt. I even shown the deck pre-tournament to the shop keeper, in case someone argues the insect.
1st round against RUG
1st game: I lead with Xantid Swarm, which luckily resolved and survived. Turn before I comboed out, he finally found Bolt, so I must tried to win unprotected and failed.
sideboard: Carpets and some stuff, generally speaking I overboarded. I had some trouble with sleeves, too, basically out of the 61+15, twenty had split so I had a complete mess in my cards and instead of concentrating on game and on sb-ing, I just struggled with the PVC foil.
2nd game: I tried a combo but he countered CRit. I replenished my hand ahd then played CT (Pierced), CT (flashing it for Veteran), found Forest and Swamp, LG into Bayou, Carpet, Carpet, move to the second main (he should have Bolted the Dryad during attack phase, as he knew of my Culling thanks to his Probe), 2nd main phase I took UB from Carpets, then I culled the Dryad, in response he BSed, (tapping himself out, so the only answer was FoW), and then I ToA him from hand, as he was on 13 from my attacks, his Probe and FoW.
3rd game: He had waful hand and so did I. One monet his hand revealed Jace, Pierce, Tarmogoyf and Submerge, which is strange card and he then admited that Bolt would be better. I played LP, LED, Crit with the latter not resolving and then I died to Goyf and Mangoose.
2nd round against UR Delver
1st game: A deck shown to be really bed, I like it. I ws hit by Delver, then by Abberation, then I resolved a D4 and died without playing anything else.
sideboard: same as above, just that the latex trouble was even worse. I hadn't enough time to resleve the deck. So I just took away some of the worst sleeves and then started to sleeve and sideboard all at once. We've had some fun of it, and then we bursted in laughter when I unsleeved one of my CRits (the only english one I use) and it has written "BALOG" all over the back side. I told Michal that I use this one because I got three asian ones and five English, with the four unneeded English ones in my trade binder. Strangely enough, he also has three asian and one English CRit, but I'm a winner in this contest, because of the "BALOG" alter.
Ok, back to game...
2nd game: This one was funny. I sided out 2nd ToA to find room for protection, thinking that I just kill him with big chain. Of course, when I startedthe chain with CoF on table and Culled Vetran, I had all the mana in world (something like BBBBBBB and LED+LP in play), but was stuck with IT+ToA in hand. Not playing the PiF/second ToA, I lost this game, of course.
3rd round, bye
I thrown away the Ultra Pro "sleeves" and bought Dragon Shield plus two Mirage IC so that I don't have to play the ugly 6th and 7th Ed. (Feel free to mention this in the "Exact name cards" thread...)
4th round against UBW Control
1st game I lost somehow.
sideboard: I once again overboarded.
2nd game: i had a very risky hand and after some tinkering decided to try it before he play land for Pierce/Thoughtseize. (He also kept a risky hand with no coutnerspells but twodiscards, so I was correct on my decision.) Unluckily I had to go without land so, it was LP, DRit, LED, D4 (sac LED for BBB), brick and quit. If I had a DRit instead of Duress in my D4, I could have tried DRit, Trop, Med and win form there with CRit, LP, random
card, ToA
So, the deck is awful enough for me to play itagain, I just need to make my mind if I want to try the PSI or QSI route. (The latter been more likely.) Also, I'd appreciate the two remaining D4s.
Otoh, I wasted four hours of my life and quite some money on gas - remember I had to visit the other shop for the Veteran - sleeves, entry fee, cards for deck, cards for Mirage-Visions-Weatherlight deck, a peanut stick and a soda. So maybe I'll stick to some good deck next time...
Props:
Xantid Swarm main.
D4.
Slops:
Not enough sac outlets/dudes, or better said: incorrect numbers. I basically had every possible wrong combination any time possible, like double CtW and one CT with no dude to sac, or an Explorer and Dryad without anything to play.
ESG. This card sucks. It countered one Daze and that's about it.
My sb skills.
Hey Guys, I'm looking for a new deck to play, is there a reason this has fallen off of the wagon within the last year? Could you weigh the pros and cons of this versus Belcher/TES/ANT?
Once you go Legacy...
SI has no cantrips and no solid mana base. That's why it is less consistent than ANT or TES. I feel it is also slightly less consistent than Belcher, because the Belcher business is better. A draw 4 spell can give you crap, while Empty the Warrens always gives you an army that should win you the game (most of the time). SI just isn't as reliable as the popular Storm decks right now. Good players can make good use of SI though. It is a lot more resilient than it looks at first glance, and it can be ludacrisly fast. I should also add that SI is way more fun to play than ANT or TES.
SI hasn't really 'fallen off the wagon' cause there never really was a wagon for this deck. There's a few people camping in the mountains and thats about it.
MTGS has a far more active forum if you're interested in constant discussion, sharing results, etc. SI players are still performing at locals, and within the last year we had one player place 26th in an SCG, and the year before that, actually, the exact same place, with a different player. So with a good pilot, the deck is still able to do quite well at large tournaments.
A lot of players are playing RSI which is the robot heavy list that plays Mox Opal, Gitaxian Probe, and Cabal Therapy. It can lead to some incredibly powerful plays, and players of this type have been developing their own sideboards to good effect, things like Lotus Bloom and Tezzeret transformations.
I and some other players still player PSI (the Pact list), which plays 0 protection, but is far more flexible than the other lists because the Pacts can transform into either a creature or a mana source.
Belcher is a largely turn 3 combo deck. 4/11 win conditions are Empty the Warrens (on rare occasions Diminishing Returns and/or Tendrils). So after you hit 14 tokens turn 1, the fastest you can win is turn 3. PSI by comparison, is a turn 1 deck, more in line with the speed of decks like Oops All the Spells (or whatever its called). The difference is this deck still holds the title of best mulligans in all of Legacy magic because you can go off with fewer resources than any other combo deck, thanks to redundancy. Petal, Drit, D4, is all you really need. Yes D4s are risky, but that comes with the territory. The PSI lists fizzle less because you don't draw into multiple protection and tallmen when you really want business and acceleration. For this reason I've stuck with PSI. Also, still comparing to Belcher, PSI actually has a sideboard plan. If you notice, the most recent lists played by Ben Perry and others have ported sideboard tech from PSI such as Carpet of Flowers. Carpet is even more abusable post-board thanks to a heavy business count. Against a slower control player like Miracles or BUG, 3 Islands means free business for the PSI. Then, you just lay business spells down until they run out of permission, and then you kill them. It works extremely well actually, and is far more fun to play for both players than the typically combo matchup where one player bends down, and the other player does nasty things. Instead, its largely, how do you out play them, surprise pay for Daze and make them waste 2 counters on something. Also, you can lay down double or triple threats on turn 1 thanks to boarding in a bunch of 1cc bombs. The deck can play a man plan as well if you want to surprise your local opponents with something they aren't prepared for.
ANT and TES are played more because they are consistent, and easy to play. PSI is significantly faster, and usually you are favored in the combo mirror because they cannot match your speed. I've won most of my combo mirrors against other storm decks. PSI, though is a combo for the dedicated combo player who enjoys playing something both difficult and rewarding. The sideboard is incredibly fun to play; in fact, I've beaten control players who claim to have had 'the best game of magic in a long time' playing against it, so you won't look like a dick at your local metagame like you would if you were playing Belcher.
Then again, I've been developing a new list that I've shared with the MTGS and Stormboard SI-teams, and its developing quite well actually. We have a BGur list that plays Brainstorm, a BGR list that plays Entomb and Burning Wish, and a BGr list that plays Entomb. So far the list is about as fast as ANT. We have a small amount of data (70 goldfish games recorded), leading us to a 2.55 (20 games), 2.9 (20 games), 2.8 (20 games), and 2.5 (10 games) turn kill ratio. So its about the speed of ANT or TES, but it plays better cards in some cases, and its far better against control than these other storm combo decks by my assessment. I'll get into these things later though, here is the list:
- VANT w/ Entomb -
Business -
4 Infernal Tutor
4 Entomb
3 Diabolic Intent
1 Ad Nauseam
1 Past in Flames
1 Tendrils of Agony
Protection/Utility -
4 Cabal Therapy
1 Narcomoeba
Mana -
1 Eternal Witness
3 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Summoner's Pact
4 Veteran Explorer
1 Young Wolf
4 Dark Ritual
4 Culling the Weak
4 Lotus Petal
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
Land -
4 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Bayou
1 Mountain
1 Dryad Arbor
We're still developing a sideboard. Direlemming is playing a BW variant, also playing Entomb. A few other players think we should go back to playing Brainstorm. Lately I've been pondering a Doomsday variant with Probe/Brainstorm/Top. Anyway, I'll explain the card choices. It shares like 37 cards or something with PSI so it was technically PSI for a long time. I started calling it Veteran ANT due to Veteran Explorer.
Business:
Infernal Tutor - Excellent tutor. Storm combo players are quite familiar with this one.
Entomb - Incredibly powerful. This card can be a creature if you need one for a sac effect, it can find business via PIF, or protection via Therapy.
Diabolic Intent - Much like IT, only its better than IT. Also, its better than Burning Wish because BW can't find LED, and thats huge if you have IT/BW in hand.
Ad Nauseam - Powerful engine.
Past in Flames - Your line of play if you have an Entomb in hand, or if you've lost too much life to go for Ad Nauseam.
Tendrils of Agony - Your kill.
Protection/Utility:
Cabal Therapy - ANT/TES do not utilize this card to its potential. Its basically a bad protection spell in other combo decks. In this one, you can flashback it frequently, or find it with Entomb for tricks.
Narcomoeba - Tricks with Entomb
Mana:
Eternal Witness - Huge card. If you have 9 mana in hand and your only business is Entomb and Pact, you can still win. You Entomb for Ad Nauseam, then you Pact, crack a LED for GGG, then Ewit for AdN, then cast AdN with the rest of your mana.
Elvish Spirit Guide - Anti-Daze tech, and helps you cast your Explorers and other green 1cc stuff on turn 1.
Summoner's Pact - Strongest card in the deck. It can turn into mana, a creature, or a business spell (Ewit). I'll talk about the drawback later.
Veteran Explorer - Another of the strongest cards in the deck. It's pseudo-ritual acceleration in that it nets you B, but you get to keep the lands. Its great for setting up.
Young Wolf - Sometimes you want to Pact for this when you have double Culling or some kind of double sac cost that you could not pay for if you grabbed Explorer.
Dark Ritual - Acceleration
Culling the Weak - More explosive acceleration than the other combo decks have access to. This is one of the cards that lets you frequently make huge-mana plays.
Lion's Eye Diamond - Combos with Pact, Entomb, DI, IT, and PIF. In other words, more cards than in any other storm combo variant.
Lands
Swamp - I like playing 4 but we can probably cut one for a basic Forest.
Verdant Catacombs - Can find a B/G source, or a Dryad Arbor if you need it for a sac effect.
Bayou - Your B/G mana sources.
Mountain - Sometimes you want to grab this when you are executing a PIF line of play. You grab it with Veteran Explorer.
Dryad Arbor - You can grab this with Catacombs or Pact.
As I've already mentioned, this deck wins somewhere between turn 2 and turn 3 on avg. Often you can set up protection as well, and many of those times you are also able to flashback therapy. The deck has natural protection from soft permission because the rituals are so explosive and the deck plays a very stable mana base thanks to Explorer. Also, Veteran Explorer is a psuedo-ritual acceleration that cannot be Spell Pierced or Flusterstormed. This is huge because it limits players to Daze, Stifle, and Force. The business of the deck (could include Pact) is so amorphous that you can usually manipulate your hand based on what you are playing to produce a win. I've talked about this deck ad nauseam on MTGS in the SI thread if anyone wants to read more (and see the results the few of us have in our limited testing).
The coolest thing you can do with this deck is probably the Eternal Witness line of play. You have no idea how satisfying it is to win with just Pact/Entomb in hand. Also, due to lines of play like this, you can produce a win by using spare DI's or ITs to look for protection or extra mana if you are taking your time in going off. Sometimes this deck has so much mana its absurd. Sometimes after you've played IT/DI and cracked all your LEDs, you have as much as 7 to 15 mana floating. Entomb in particular was a more recent addition to this list (I started with Brainstorms and Sea/Trop). I like Entomb because it can be protection, or if you don't have a dude to sac, you can throw a PIF in your yard, just in case they have a counter you don't expect. The deck has so much mana even if they counter your all in attempt that you can go off again next turn from the yard with PIF. This is because Explorers leave you with perpetual resources after you crack them, unlike other acceleration where its a one time deal.
I think this new storm variant could potentially dislodge RUG from its Papal Legacy throne. Explorer is just retarded against RUG, and their soft permission is rather hilarious when you look at how easily this deck can out distance soft permission. I had one game where I just played through 4 Spell Pierce, Daze, Flusterstorm, in game one. Just to compare to other storm variants (though I was going to do all this in an article at some point in the near future):
ANT - less explosive, more cantrips, less stable mana base, more disruption but weaker disruption, weaker rituals
TES - less explosive, more cantrips, less stable mana base, more and stronger disruption (pre-board), far weaker rituals
In particular, ANT plays Crit, which is extremely vulnerable to Daze, and frankly, the card you want to cut from that list if you could. Also, both lists play Chrome Mox, which is card disadvantage. I've dropped it since the deck has so much mana that you rarely AdN without mana floating. Also, Therapy/Probe is just a pathetic version of Therapy/Flashback. This deck abuses Therapy to the fullest of its potential, and then some thanks to Entomb. Entomb functions as pseudo protection a lot of the time. TES, on the other hand, plays Silence/Chant effects. These are awesome, but once VANT hits post-board, it can play Autumn's Veil, which is better in this deck. Why? Because all its rituals are instants, unlike in TES. This means VE against control allows you multiple land drops such that when you go off, you can respond to their soft permission with Veil, something that TES cannot do with Chant/Silence. TES is probably still faster than this deck overall, but cards like Culling the Weak produce explosive plays where TES would be waiting for a couple turns to get enough acceleration to get there. Also in terms of explosiveness, the number of cards that interact with LED mean that your topdeck mode is quite powerful. When I was playing Brainstorm, the deck also had a stronger Brainstorm than both TES and ANT, ANT typically only playing 16 shuffle effects with TES's 11, and VANT's 18. Now its at 23, no cantrips, but I am still playing around with the list.
I hope to gather some interest in this list that way we can get more players testing variations. I already have 5 or 6 other people testing their own variations, and a couple of people have liked the list so much they are on their way to completing their list.
Luck is a residue of design.
I'm an aspiring Psychedelic Trance musician. Please feel free to enjoy my sense of life:
http://soundcloud.com/vacrix
Expect me or die. I play SI.
Vacrix, first off your analysis is great. I can tell you are very passionate about the deck, which is very refreshing. The new list that you posted intrigues me. I would like to make and test it. I am always one to play something unique and my meta has almost no control players. Sounds fun to me.
Once you go Legacy...
Really interesting list Vacrix. It's kind of amazing to see what appears to be an actual fresh take on storm.
It's very different from SI though. Why not start a new thread to get some interest going? I'm betting not a lot of people that might be interested even enter this thread and it's certainly different enough to warrant a new one.
Hill Giant means business.
Indeed, it is a fresh take on storm. A couple people on MTGS are already playing VANT with success. However, I want to get a little bit more information on the deck before I write a primer to officially present it to the community as something new. I have one tournament report so far from MTGS, and he beat 2 decks playing FoW to top4 at his local. Not bad, but I'd like to have a couple reports first. If anyone wants to read more about this deck, we've discussed it thoroughly on MTGS.
So far the deck appears to win quickly on turns 2 or 3 if you push the deck to race your opponent. If you take your time, it goes off later but slow plays better than other storm combo decks because this one can flashback Therapy, sac Explorers to build up enough mana to dodge soft permission, and the deck plays 15 tutors which allows the pilot to move resources around to solve different situations. Its more like Doomsday than ANT actually and the fast mana is even more flexible than in PSI because the deck can play Explorer instead of Chrome Mox. It has an incredible amount of resilience because of the high business density, much like the inevitability of ANT, but stacking basics with Explorer makes it more inevitable (and makes paying for Pact triggers easier). A Burning Wish version might be more appropriate but I'm becoming less and less fond of Empty the Warrens since everyone is answering it so effectively these days. Belcher wins some and loses some, but we don't want to lose to the same thing that beats Belcher. I think PIF is a much more preferable line of play. With access to Entomb, it opens up the possibility of creative post-board transformations. Hitting 8-10 mana for Griz isn't incredibly hard if we know we are trying to crack a Pernicious Deed. Then we can also play post-board reanimation as well. This would be a clever way to diversify how storm combo fights through hate because it slow plays into Deed extremely well thanks to Explorer. You can also Deed and then set up a PIF/Tendrils line of play. There are other board transformation I've been experimenting with that are also functioning within the current deck structure quite well, variations of Phyrexian Obliterator, Desecration Demon, and Carpet/protection plans.
EDIT:
Another good way too look at things in terms of virtual copies.
VANT -
18 virtual business - (4 IT, 4 Entomb, 3 DI, 1 AdN, 1 Tendrils, 1 PIF, 4 Pact)
20 virtual acceleration - (4 Drit, 4 Culling, 4 LED, 4 Veteran Explorer, 4 Pact)
8 virtual protection - (4 Therapy, 4 Entomb)
18 virtual creatures - (4 Veteran Explorer, 1 Young Wolf, 4 Pact, 4 Verdant Catacombs, 4 Entomb, 1 Dryad Arbor) (19 if you count wolf as 2 creatures, and 20 if you count hardcasting Narcomoeba)
11 land - (Veteran Explorers tend to mean you don't need to draw lands or cantrip into land drops as often. instead you take your time and crack the explorer somehow)
By comparison to ANT and TES, they play more cantrips while this deck plays tutors to create flexibility in the hand rather than relying on a good topdeck, shuffling, and multiple cantrips. In this case, you are very vulnerable to Pyroblast on cantrips early on against decks like RUG. By comparison, these decks are flexible within 3 cards of their topdeck, which they constantly shuffle. However, cards like Entomb and Summoner's Pact require additional deck space for flexibility, but through redundancy manages an effective system. Also, the ability of a player to hide his strategy as a Nic fit player is incredibly useful for determining how to play your hand. Sometimes, you will start by dropping lands, maybe an Explorer or something. Then your opponent drops Deathrite shaman. Initially, you were thinking about going for PiF. Well, you can now decide how to use Entomb. Entombing for Narcomoeba will really put them on edge because then they will expect some graveyard based strategy. This is the kind of mind numbing confusion this deck can unleash because the cards you are playing are so foreign to storm combo. I think people playing storm like Grinding Station, DDFT, and SI will really get turned on to this version of storm combo. Hopefully soon because this is a storm combo variant that will make fighting storm combo much more difficult.
Last edited by Vacrix; 11-14-2013 at 10:32 PM.
Luck is a residue of design.
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Expect me or die. I play SI.
Sorry for my ignorance but what is QSI?
If I recall correctly, it's the version of SI that splashes blue for cantrips to sculp a hand that can beat the hate. I think it runs Meditate as an additional D4. There is likely something about it in the OP/Primer.
Thank you for. Clarification. Does it provide any advantage over traditional psi?
And which is the trick behind lotus bloom?
Last edited by GoldenCid; 12-29-2013 at 08:00 PM.
@Vacrix
I loaded up the Veteran Explorer list and think it's rather interesting, but I have a lot of criticisms as well.
1) You should be using an Empty the Warrens in the MD as a second win/kill condition, answers for Empty the Warrens only exists post-board.
2) I rarely find myself wanting to fetch for a mountain, Entomb for a Narcomeba or Pact for a Young Wolf, I think you've gotten carred too far away with "cute" interactions and found yourself in the land of awful oppening hands.
3) Three Elvish Spirit Guide in a deck with Ad Nauseam is rather "ballsy"
4) Tinder Wall and Deathrite Shaman would make for rather useful draws and Pact targets for straightening out mana for Past in Flames or Chrome Mox if you choose to play any.
5) You're already playing Cabal Therapy, Gitaxian Probe should be right around the corner.
6) Grim Tutor or Death Wish seem like pretty viable business spells as well as a second Ad Nauseam.
Have you tried cutting the deck down to just Veteran Explorer and Diabolic Intent instead of getting "fancy" with Entomb?
Well, finally i got my third Cruel Bargain and while wait for the fourth wich draw spell do you recomend me to run instead?
Meditate
or
Slithermuse?
Moreover i share my actual list for help (insults are welcomed as well :P)
4 Cruel Bargain
4 Infernal Contract
4 Lotus Petal
4 Chrome Mox
4 Summoner's Pact
3 Tendrils of Agony
2 Goblin Charbelcher
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Land Grant
1 Bayou
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Culling the Weak
1 Wild Cantor
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Dark Ritual
4 Infernal Tutor
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Ill-Gotten Gains
1 Odious Trow
1 Empty the Warrens
Respect the side....im not sure what can i run. Im intrigued for lotus Bloom versión but maybe im so newbie for that.
Thx a lot
GC
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