Madcap Pyromancer

[Paul]

Hi,

first time actually posting here. Since Madcap Experiment got spoiled I am constantly wondering if it is viable for legacy. Imo the easiest way to abuse it is as a 4cc Platinum Emperion.

Due to the fact that Emperion is not a Oops-I-win-card like Emmy or Blightsteel, I think that a combo-shell with rituals to accelerate it out is the wrong approach.

So here is what I came up with (more like a grixis-control/midrange-list): !First draft!

4 Madcap Experiment

2 Platinum Emperion

4 Deathrite Shaman

4 Young Pyromancer

4 Gitaxian Probe

4 Cabal Therapy

4 Brainstorm

4 Ponder

4 Force of Will

2 Spell Pierce

4 Lightning Bolt

1 Island

1 Swamp

1 Mountain

3 Volcanic Island

3 Underground Sea

1 Badlands

10 Fetches



A Burning Wish package could also be interesting.

Thoughts?

[adrieng]

You should read the fucking cards, madcap requires to play at least 10-12 artifacts cause other way you are gone cast madcap and just lose to it dealing you 20 damages.

Oops : sry for the reply yeah that works nicely with platinum emperion just explain that trick in the post

[1maarten1]

You should read the fucking cards, madcap requires to play at least 10-12 artifacts cause other way you are gone cast madcap and just lose to it dealing you 20 damages.

Please read the 'fucking' card before you post a reply :)

[square_two]

You should read the fucking cards, madcap requires to play at least 10-12 artifacts cause other way you are gone cast madcap and just lose to it dealing you 20 damages.

Listen to your own advice. Do you realize what happens when Madcap puts Emperion into play? Your life total can't change from Madcap's damage.

[Cire]

I've been fooling around with Madcap into Emperion since Madcap got spoiled and there are some issues. First, suprisingly . . . a 4 mana 8/8 even with "life total can't change" just isn't that good in legacy. I'm not saying it's bad, but it's not an OMG play. And that play turn 4 is even less impressive, when by turn 4 most legacy decks are already about to win. As such, while I agree that a pure combo route is probably wrong, I do think you need to have some way to consistently power out madcap turn 3 or earlier. Sol lands or mana dorks for example. Additionally, you need to run more ways to get rid of Emprium from your hand than jsut brainstorm. Even though you only run 2 of them in the deck, that's 1 more dead draw than you want.

[rufus]

. . a 4 mana 8/8 even with "life total can't change" just isn't that good in legacy. I'm not saying it's bad, but it's not an OMG play... [

I imagine a sideboard package of 4x Madcap Experiment , 2x Platinum Emperion might be a good way to go, but Platinum Angel seems like a better thing to look for as a surprise item since it shuts down more opponents.

I wonder if `angel turns` could work in legacy.


4 Final Fortune
4 Warrior's Oath
3 Last Chance
2 Temporal Mastery

2 Platinum Angel

3 Madcap Experiment
4 Burning Wish

4 Stifle
3 Day's Undoing

3 Reforge the Soul

4 Pact of Negation
4 Force of Will

4 Brainstorm

[Cire]

I wonder if `angel turns` could work in legacy.

At that point - just run Intervention Pact/etc into Blightsteel for your combo.

[ZEROorDIE]

playing RUG instead of Grixis gives you access to sylvan library. also better removal for artifacts and enchantments. Idk which is better for the combo

this combo should be a finisher supported by a cast of quick damage and counter magic since Emperion is relatively fragile.

[MaximumC]

So, if you want to run Madcap Experiment, you either need to get protection from it, have tons of artifacts, or roll into Platinum Angel / Emperion.

Platinum Combo Route

3R - Put an 8/8 artifact creature into play. You may not have artifacts in your deck. if your opponent responds to this with a Containment Priest, you lose the game.

or

3R - Put a 4/4 flying artifact creature into play. You lose the game if this creature leaves play. You may not have artifacts in your deck.

In the case of the former, an 8/8 for 4 seems fine for Modern but I think it's actually pretty terrible for Legacy. Out here, we use Natural Order to get far more potent creatures than Mr. Doesnt-Protect-Himself. Moreover, both Emperion and Angel open you up to instant-kills in response. The payoff just doesn't seem worth it.

Verdit: Possible Modern combo. If you're playing this in Legacy, you must be on a shoestring budget. Which is fine, but it's not ideal.

Tons'o'Artifacts

You could just jam this in a deck with 10+ fat artifact creatures so that you never worry about killing yourself. Still, if you do that, sometimes you will kill yourself. And, why not just run Metalworker / Sol Lands? I don't see the point here.

Verdict: Why

Protection from Madcap

This is where i think people need to focus their efforts. If you run cards that protect you from the damage dealt by Madcap, you are now playing with Tinker (that sometimes kills you, YOLO). You can get one of the Big Three tinker targets: Blightsteel, Inkwell Leviathan, or Sphinx of the Steel Wind, depending on the matchup.

Your best options here are probably playable cards like Burlington Coat Factory -- er, Forge Tender -- or fringe playables like Energy Storm, Circle of Protection: Red, and Soulfire Grand Master. I like the Master best because it does more than just hate on burn, but hey, burn hate is a fine thing to have.

Verdict: Tinker is a better card than Platinum Emperion or Wurmcoil Engine.

[rufus]

So, if you want to run Madcap Experiment, you either need to get protection from it, have tons of artifacts, or roll into Platinum Angel / Emperion. ...

What about Madcap Experiment + topdeck tutors? (e.g. Enlightened Tutor or Worldly Tutor?) It leaves you vulnerable to shuffle effects like Extirpate but that gets you much closer to tinker power level.

[CptHaddock]

I wonder if you might just be better off going for some sort of combo kill, most of the creatures that you can get seem kind of mediocre. With something like intervention pact, you might be able to get aetherflux reservoir into play and then zap your opponent for 50. The biggest issue is how you can consistently come with a way to put it at the bottom (or close to the bottom) of your library for max life gain. Helm/RIP also come into mind but I think that they are too easily disrupted. Are there any other 2 artifact based combos that come to mind?

[rufus]

... The biggest issue is how you can consistently come with a way to put it at the bottom (or close to the bottom) of your library for max life gain...

I'm not sure there are good ways without aritifacts.

You could Recross the Paths to stack the deck. Though, at that point, you don't need to be so fancy to win.

You could combine a topdeck tutor or Lim-Dul's Vault with something like Telling Time.

You could cycle through the deck 5 cards at a time with cards like Peer Through Depths,Truth or Tale, Fertile Thicket, Ancient Stirrings and if you want to really go derp Worldly Council.

[CptHaddock]

I'm not sure there are good ways without aritifacts.

You could Recross the Paths to stack the deck. Though, at that point, you don't need to be so fancy to win.

You could combine a topdeck tutor or Lim-Dul's Vault with something like Telling Time.

You could cycle through the deck 5 cards at a time with cards like Peer Through Depths,Truth or Tale, Fertile Thicket, Ancient Stirrings and if you want to really go derp Worldly Council.

Forgot that Peer through Depths was a card. Deck looks kind of poopy when you put it on paper though.

3 Pyromancers (?)
2 Lightening Bolt (?)

1 Aetherflux Reservoir
4 Madcap Experiment
4 Intervention Pact

4 Brainstorm
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Preordain
4 Peer Through Depths
4 Force of Will
4 Spell Pierce

2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

2 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
2 Island
2 Mountain
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Flooded Strand
4 Volcanic Island
1 Academy Ruins