So I have never played spring tide or solidarity so Im wondering:
Does Preordains' ability to scry away lands make it an auto include into spring tide, and is the power of Reset so great that it is worth ignoring all the new sorcery speed draw? (ponder, preordain)
Is High Tide even viable with NO/Progenitus and Show and tell/Emerikal and Loyal Retainers/Emerikal being to popular?
Spring Tide always have had powerful draw spells, such as Ideas Unbound. Preordain, although good, don't add much.
Solidarity is much better than Spring Tide because of its capability to combo in the opponent's turn. It is priceless to be able to know for sure the best time to combo, and Solidarity does just this, while Spring Tide must guess the best opportunity.
That said, both of them are bad in current metagame, mainly because (a) Counterbalance rapes them, and (b) there are better combos.
# The Bizarro Super Powers Team
@lebarion
(a) CB rapes all storm combo, with maybe one exception: DDFT. Solidarity has a wayy better CB matchup than something like TES. We can FoW, chain Remands together to keep it off the table, and can run Krosan Grip post-board or Cunning Wish --> Krosan Grip, not to mention we have plenty of lands and cantrips to find answers. Hell the entire deck is cantrips. This argument is rather weak. I actually haven't had too many problems with CB in my experience playing against it. It doesn't happen often, but when it does, I've come out on top. They won't always have it, and countermagic is a joke against Solidarity.
(b) In general, I agree here. DDFT is easily the best combo deck in the format right now, but if Solidarity got back Frantic Search, this would be a whole different discussion.
Luck is a residue of design.
I'm an aspiring Psychedelic Trance musician. Please feel free to enjoy my sense of life:
http://soundcloud.com/vacrix
Expect me or die. I play SI.
Vacrix, I agree partially with you regarding (a). I'm not sure TES is worse than Solidarity against Counterbalance, because it can combo before Counterbalance lands and because it has Burning Wish. Also, having cantrips is not of any help for finding an answer when Counterbalance is just countering them. But in fact, Krosan Grip in the board helps a lot.
Another reason I don't play Solidarity today is that it is not uncommon to be outraced by Zoo. The combos mentioned by
SageOwl (NO/Progenitus, Show and tell/Emrakul and Loyal Retainers/Emrakul or Iona) don't affect the deck all that much, in my opinion.
Well, but I guess the viability of Solidarity in today's meta can be discussed in its forum ;).
# The Bizarro Super Powers Team
1. Dont the shuffle effects of Emrakul and Progenitus kill the deck?Originally Posted by lebarion
2. yes, yes it could.
Spring Tide has little trouble forcing its opponent to draw 60. Taking away the milling option slows the deck down by 1/2 of a turn or so, and makes it a little harder to win through multiple counters. It certainly doesn't cripple it entirely.
could spring tide run duals and fetch lands for grapeshot?
storm10, grapshot remand (take 9), grapshot (take 12)
Call the deck black jack :P
Seems like Tendrils would be better.
Progenitus just shuffles itself, so no worries here.
I played against an Emrakul deck with Solidarity last month. 1st game I Brain Freezed then Stroked for 20 something. 2nd Game I Stroked for 73.
It is not all tat hard.
Spring Tide can generate infinite mana after playing 4 High Tides, with Capsize, so it is not impossible also.
The Red Splash could be an option here. Maybe better than in Solidarity, bringing also Red Elemental Blasts to counter Counterbalance.
@Preordain: I tested in Spring Tide, with 10 cantrips I guess, and is completely bonkers. I think is the deck that can get the most out of it.
The only problem is that Solidarity is way better...
Super Bizarros Team. Beating everything with small green dudes and big waves.
Yes both play Krosan Grip in the board. You forget though, Solidarity is comprised entirely of cantrips. It has no problem finding its post-board Grips, hell even pre-board if you can set up Cunning Wish.
Yes sometimes Zoo outraces you, but the Moment's Peace's in the board have certainly helped out in that respect. Its like a double time walk. Its a good thing people don't play too much Goblins anymore because its much worse, given that you expose yourself with a Trop, in which case I just use Tangle. Also, no combo deck can fight control as well as Solidarity. Its built to beat control actually, not aggro. I still think its viable in an aggro light metagame and heavy blue (like the one I play in).
Luck is a residue of design.
I'm an aspiring Psychedelic Trance musician. Please feel free to enjoy my sense of life:
http://soundcloud.com/vacrix
Expect me or die. I play SI.
just an fyi, you can play with cunning wish and have stifles in the board to deal with emrakuls and the such, along with answers to other trouble cards. Don't get me wrong, the deck has plenty of problems, but the worst of these are far from emrakuls.
Unbanning Frantic Search would make both Solidarity and Spring Tide competitive decks, but I think Wizards hates blue too much to do so...
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