ITF?
Counterbalance is still a good card, Pernicious Deed seems to be good again, Jace TMS got printed... Wouldn't it be time for a revival of good old It's The Fear?
Everyone of us has seen UBG Landstill popping up, maybe it's time for ITF to emerge again and show that not only Landstill can use these 3 colors to good effect?
Possible winconditions include Dark Dephts + Vampire Hexmage or even Thopter Foundry + Sword of the Meek. Plus: Jace TMS.
Opinions/Onions/Flame?
This looks like a job for me.
Most of my posts will be written from my phone, so please excuse the eventual lack of proper typing.
I love ITF. I played it Sunday in Worcester, mostly successfully. I played almost a carbon copy of the original list, -1 trop and +1 fetchland (cause I only own 3 trops) and -4 bebs side and +4 spell pierce. I didn't run into wasteland all day, which was lucky, but I did run into extirpates, which are still good against this deck. There was a game where my opponent played swamp, ritual, sadistic sacrament, and if they'd taken my 3 trops my only win condition would be vedalken shackles :/ They took goyfs, and I think I won, but I was lucky. We drew that round.
I basically think the deck's manabase is really fragile (only 22 lands, no basic swamps or forests), and threats + standstill is pretty good against it (read: merfolk). I haven't played enough with JTMS, but people seem to think he's worth throwing into anything blue these days, so maybe. I think Dark Depths is not worth the slots, particularly with the already bad manabase and virtual reliance on access to double blue and double green. Adding reliance on double black seems not worth it. Thopter Sword seems a lot closer to doing what the deck wants to do anyway, but I think it would still require changing the deck a lot.
I think the deck is good if you have a lot of playskill, but not in the presence of lots of stifles and wastes.
Also, I'd think zoo would be an ok matchup, with swords, explosives, and deeds, but I haven't tested it. It might be too fast. I feel like against fast decks, I usually stabilize at like 4 life, on turn 4 or 5, which is scary. Unless you have countertop active by then, they can just burn you out.
Firespout.
http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazin...ol10/welcome#1
The second place deck more or less sums up what happened to ITF. People quit playing Deed in decks with Counterbalance, opting for Firespout to mop up the aggro match instead.
Obviously that leaves you with some issues against Aether Vial, but making $2300 playing Legacy is hard to argue with.
I know of Supreme Blue, but is that deck really... better? The overall CQ might be higher, but isn't playing a 4C manabase like walking in a minefield?
ITF can be cut down to 3 colors without losing much - in fact, StP can be substituted by Ghastly Demise, Innocent Blood, Smother or Diabolic Edict quite easily.
Also, KotR, RWM and 3+ Lords survive a Firespout - Firespout is a lot cheaper of course.
Sure, that deck placed 2nd at one of the largest Legacy tournaments lately, but we all know that this does neither mean that the build is optimal nor that there aren't decks which are similiar in their concept but stronger overall.
Not questioning the deck itself, but rather that ITF is dead because it doesn't pack Firespout.
Maybe I should present you a list to tingle your sense about what I'm meaning?
// Lands
1 [ALA] Forest
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
3 [B] Underground Sea
2 [U] Bayou
1 [DM] Swamp
4 [ON] Polluted Delta
3 [B] Tropical Island
2 [APL] Island
1 [TSP] Academy Ruins
1 [SH] Volrath's Stronghold
// Creatures
4 [FUT] Tarmogoyf
1 [FD] Eternal Witness
// Spells
2 [WWK] Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 [4E] Counterspell
4 [FNM] Brainstorm
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [CS] Counterbalance
4 [TE] Intuition
1 [RAV] Life from the Loam
4 [V09] Sensei's Divining Top
3 [JGC] Pernicious Deed
3 [OD] Ghastly Demise
1 [FUT] Sword of the Meek
1 [ARB] Thopter Foundry
That list may be far from optimal, but I guess you get what I mean.
Counterbalance, Removal, Sweeper, Goyf, Jace, Foundry + Sword, Loam.
This looks like a job for me.
Most of my posts will be written from my phone, so please excuse the eventual lack of proper typing.
Originally Posted by Nidd
Have you seen his manabase? He makes excellent use of the enemy fetches and runs 4 basics, giving him access to his removal colors basically always.
This isn't really accurate.ITF can be cut down to 3 colors without losing much - in fact, StP can be substituted by Ghastly Demise, Innocent Blood, Smother or Diabolic Edict quite easily.
Good thing those cards all still die to Swords to Plowshares.Also, KotR, RWM and 3+ Lords survive a Firespout - Firespout is a lot cheaper of course.
It's pretty close to optimal. If it weren't, someone with a better, more optimal deck, would have come in second instead. If another deck were similar in concept and stronger overall, the same argument stands. Why didn't someone play it at GP Columbus and prove it?Sure, that deck placed 2nd at one of the largest Legacy tournaments lately, but we all know that this does neither mean that the build is optimal nor that there aren't decks which are similiar in their concept but stronger overall.
The format is faster and requires cheaper answers. ITF is dead because it doesn't pack cheap enough answers (whether that means Firespout, Thoughtseize, or whatever else).Not questioning the deck itself, but rather that ITF is dead because it doesn't pack Firespout.
Paying 6 mana over 2 turns for your sweeper seems extremely suboptimal in this format, at this moment in time.
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