[Deck] Next Level Threshold

[chinEsE girl]

Taking it to the next level: A NLT Primer

(Disclaimer: I'm keeping the original post and list intact to give some perspective on where the deck came from and some of it's progression to it's current state. For anyone looking for info on NLT post snapcaster mage, skip down to NLT 2.0)

Let's start at the very beginning;

Mainboard:

1 Flooded Strand
3 Island
3 Mishra's Factory
3 Polluted Delta
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Misty Rainforest
3 Tropical Island
3 Volcanic Island
3 Wasteland
2 Sower of Temptation
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Vendilion Clique
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Brainstorm
1 Crucible of Worlds
3 Daze
4 Fire / Ice
4 Force of Will
3 Lightning Bolt
2 Ponder
3 Spell Snare
4 Stifle

Sideboard:

2 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Ancient Grudge
3 Firespout
2 Krosan Grip
2 Relic of Progenitus
3 Spell Pierce
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Umezawa's Jitte


This is the list that Rafael del Riego took all the way to ninth place at Grand Prix Madrid earlier this year. On the surface the deck shares a lot of similarities which a deck that has was once very popular but has now fallen to the wayside, Canadian Thresh. The main strategies of the deck can be broken down into these catagories;

Mana Denial

The deck packs the stifle/wasteland plan that can give you free wins as your opponent has no land with which to cast their spells. Add cheap counters such as daze and spell snare, along with the omnipresent force of will, and you can keep your opponent on the back foot while you beat them down.

Efficient Removal

Lightning bolt and fire/ice serve two purposes for the deck. Against any kind of aggressive stategy, they are fantastic at dealing with any quick rush. Merfolk and Golblins are two of the best matchups for the deck simply because they rely on a few key creatures to get their decks running, and you have somewhere around 7 ways to quickly clear them out. The red removal also functions as reach against more controlling strategies, allowing you to throw burn at your opponents face if there is nothing good to target in play.

Efficient Creatures

When this term comes to mind, tarmogoyf is the first thing that comes up, and this deck doesn't disappoint with four copies of the ubiquitous 2 drop. Vendillion clique also shows up as a fantastic creature with almost unmatched utility. Tarmogoyf may be the king of stopping aggressive strategies, but vendillion clique is the queen of both disrupting and pressuring control and combo.

Throw in some fantastic cantrips like brainstorm and ponder and the deck is almost done, but not quite. This is where the difference from canadian thresh start to show themselves.

The mana base

Canadian thresh is a deck that usually has about 18 lands or so. By using ponder and brainstorm, that deck usually doesn't have an issue with finding the lands it needs. However, next level threshold isn't a deck that wants just one of two lands. It wants to get up the 3 and 4 mana just about every games, so in order to do that the land count moves up to 21. With more lands, we can use some lands with utility, such as mishra's factory. In a deck with only 9 creature spells, the factories act as creatures 10-12. As the best manland ever printed (at least in every non-tribal context), it fits into the deck very nicely as a way to stop the bleeding against tribal strategies as well as provide a clock against slower decks. The deck also utilizes a single crucible of worlds to great effect, either allowing the deck to generate more mana by returning fetchlands to reuse, bring back wastelands to crush your opponents mana base, or continuously bring back mishra's factory to block all day long. Even with the 6 lands that don't produce colored mana, the deck still runs 15 colored mana source (fetches, duals, or basics), and in my experience I have never had problems with my mana in the long term.

Jace, the Mind Sculptor

This card is unreal. Let me repeat that. UNREAL. In a deck where you want all of your cards to have utility, Jace is the undisputed king in that regard. He can do just about anything you want him too. If you're ahead, you can begin to fateseal your opponent into oblivion. If you and your opponent are even on the battlefield, then his brainstorm ability can put you ahead very quickly. His unsummon ability, though not what your would want to use immediately, is still a great way to hold off your opponent and allow you time to get back in the game. And of course if you ever get to fire off his ultimate then you just win the game right then and there (pretty much). Jace has a ton of power, but it's the utility that he possesses that makes him such a force to be reckoned with.

Sower of Temptation

This choice may seem a little strange, but over time she has proven her worth in several matchups. Where she really shines is against decks that just run swords as their removal, and against some tribal strategies, especially merfolk. When going against no removal.dec, she can single-handedly swing games your way. Against merfolk, I have taken many a reejerey or coralhelm commander, and those games go from bad to awesome on the spot. The fact that you have cheap counters means that you can still protect her very easily from opposing removal. And worst comes to worst, she is still a blue card, and like all blue cards makes for good force of will fodder when she is not needed.

And for the cards that are not included;

Nimble Mongoose

This is the creature that pretty much made me switch from canadian thresh to this very list. A year ago nimble mongoose would have been a fantastic creature to play, since the shroud was so useful against some of the formats best decks. Currently though legacy has adapted to a format that is not at all kind to the little 3/3 with shroud. As cards such as elspeth and knight of the reliquary become more and more popular in legacy, mongoose finds itself fighting against a greater number of cards that just blank it. Most of the decks to beat in the format can answer this creature without to much trouble. In addition, if we played mongoose that would make it difficult for us to board in firespout. The conclusion that I came to was that nimble mongoose, though popular for a long time, has just gotten outclassed by the current format and doesn't have a place in the deck anymore.

Grim Lavamancer

This card is something I have seen in many UGR tempo lists of all sorts, and currently I'm not sure what to make of him in this deck. Those who argue to include the little lava man that could insist on how sweet he is versus merfolk and golbins, and while this is certainly true, those matchups are so good that I feel like he just isn't necessary. I would be much more concerned about my plan versus a deck like zoo or new horizons, where cards like terravore and knight of the reliquary are just way too huge for lavamancer to deal with effectively. In my opinion, what it comes down to is whether or not your metagame is getting swamped by tribal decks. If you're playing at a tournament where goblins and merfolk are far and away to most widely played decks, then sure lavamancer is pretty fucking sweet. However, in the metagames that I play I might face off against one merfolk player and one goblins player in a seven or eight round event. With the tribal matchup as good as it is already, I would much rather have a more balanced deck which still has good matchups versus control and tempo decks. The 1/1 is still a card that always needs to be considered, and it could certainly find its way into the maindeck at some point under the correct circumstances, but for the time being I am not playing him.

With that, the maindeck is finished and all that's left is the sideboard. As with most sideboards, the choices you can make often come down to personal preference, but i'll list some of the cards I think are auto-includes and others that I would almost never play without;

-3 copies of red elemental blast/pyroblast: One of the main reasons to play red as the 3rd color over white. Maindeck being able to play swords to plowshares and possibly path to exile seems enticing, but the ability to play REB in the sideboard is just too fantastic to pass up. Blue decks are a very large part of the legacy metagame, and the ability to answer all those fantastic cards for just a single red mana is amazing. Every time you counter a force of will with a REB its just the best feeling in the world. Also having a one mana instant that acts as either a counterspell or a swords against merfolk, one of the most prevalent decks in the format, just further increases the uses of this card
-3 copies of firespout: The other auto include, as well as the other reason the deck runs red. There have been times where I've thought about including this card in the main deck, which really shows how powerful it is in the current metagame. This card can pretty much wreck all of the popular aggressive strategies in the format. Merfolk, Golbins, and Zoo all can get crushed by this card when it is played correctly. It's also fantastic with the ability to hit only ground creatures, leaving things like clique and sower high and dry while all the small merfolk, goblins, or cats perish in the fire.

The other card choices to be made come down to what decks you're worried about in the format, with these being some of the most effective answers available

-tormod's crypt/relic of progenitus: Graveyard hate is useful in just about any legacy tournament you play. Not as necessary as a few months ago when reanimator was the best deck in the format, but it still exists, as well as dredge and the new vengevine madness survival deck that has picked up in popularity. I personally play 3 total with a 1/2 split, and it's worked well so far.
-krosan grip/ancient grudge/null rod: The usual enchantment/artifact hate. Krosan grip is always useful in the matchups where you want it, but you never need to many, so I usually run 2. I first ran ancient grudge as a good card against equipment, aether vial and thopter countertop, but recently my friend has suggested null rod instead and it has worked very well. In general, null rod can answer all the most played artifacts in legacy, while not stopping the ones you play.
-spell pierce: A great card versus any kind of control or combo matchup. The ability to run even more cheap counters can really come in handy, either by disrupting a combo player just about to go off, or by forcing through a way to win versus a control player hoping to stop your deck.

After those cards there are a few other options for the sideboard, although these are cards I have only seen others play, and have not played myself.

-pyroclasm: Another board sweeper, useful against tribal decks, but not so against zoo
-control magic/threads of disloyalty/mind harness: Something to take your opponents creatures. Threads was something I initially ran, but I switched to control magic when I realized that you can't take a terravore or a knight of the reliquary with threads. If zoo and merfolk is more of a concern, the speed of threads is great, but if there is a ton of new horizons in your metagame something like control magic or mind harness would work better. Currently one of the more debatable spots of my sideboard
-forked bolt: Serves as a cheaper fire//ice, without the blue ability, instant speed, or possibility of being force of will fodder. Can be good is there is a ton of noble heirarchs in the field, otherwise loses a lot of the utility that makes fire//ice good
pithing needle: A catch all answer against many things in the format. With the rise of survival decks, especially those with vengevines, pithing needle might be the card this deck needs to help deal with survival.
-dispel: Something that I've seen some New Horizons players start to use, mostly as a way to get their FOW for cheap. Obviously has a ton more uses than that, also countering any other counterspell for cheap, any removal they try to cast like swords or path to exile, as well as countering combo cards like orims chant, silence, ad nausuem, rituals, you get the idea. Something I have yet to try, but certainly something to consider.
Umezawa's jitte: Good against creature decks for obvious reason. Not something I would want to play given the small number of creatures that the deck runs, but it can certainly be strong in the right situations.

And now it's time for some matchup details;

Merfolk: Favorable

The little fishies think that they are favored just because you're playing a blue deck, but this isn't your normal UWx control. Main you have 7 removal spells that deal with any of their lords, plus you have tarmogoyf which is bigger than any guy that they play. Sower is also fantastic against them by taking lords and then beating down. And after sideboard you get even more awesome cards like REB and firespout, so it really shouldn't be close. About the only way you lose is if they get a lord of atlantis that you can't kill, or they draw many standstills that manage to resolve. Otherwise you just kill off their relevant lords and their left with a bunch of 1 and 2 power guys that can't stand up to a single tarmogoyf. Boarding in this matchup is pretty simple, you want firespout and REB for obvious reasons, and the first card to take out is stifle, since the number of good targets it has is limited wasteland and thats about it. Dazes are also weak here, since you bring in a one mana hard counter against them that doesn't set you back a land.

Goblins: Favorable

Again this deck has a good matchup with the other popular tribal deck. Your removal will always have a good target, and better yet stifle can act as a counterspell in this matchup, stopping either matron or ringleader in their track. Even if they manage to resolve an aether vial, just having a stifle or two can make their "uncounterable" guys a whole lot worse. Plus you get to sideboard in firespout to crush them once they try and get past your tarmogoyf or mishras factory. Boarding is pretty simple, bring in firespouts and taking out sower and another card of your choice. At first I thought the card to take out was a jace, but then I played more matches against the little red men and found that a jace with just one of two guys on board to protect him was just amazing. You can just fateseal away bad cards and make their topdecks garbage while you hold down the fort with superior creatures.

Zoo: Even

This matchup is all about the grind. Good players can eek out the incremental advantages that give you the win, whereas worse players will have trouble against zoo as they are left trying to deal with a 6/6 knight of the reliquary. The key to this matchup is resource and spell management. Their deck has plenty of good targets for lightning bolt and fire//ice, plus counterspells to deal with their relevant threats. What the NLT player needs to do is find ways to generate card advantage over time until their able to take the game. For example, when you have a goyf in play, block a nactal, and they have to use a bolt or something to get rid of him, sometimes its best just to let it go and not counter the removal with something like a force of will. Since you are playing 6 one mana cantrips and jace, your ability to find action after the board is cleared is much stronger than the zoo player. This means your topdecking ability is vastly superior to the zoo player, and given a few turns it's pretty easy to get yourself back in the lead. Firespout once again comes in as a great way to clear out all their one drops, and allows you to use your counters for their large creatures while still being able to easily answer their one drops. If the zoo player boards in a ton of cards, there's also a good chance they're bringing in cards like choke or maybe jitte, so retaliating with things like grip can work well too. Even though each match against zoo with this deck is difficult, tight play and disciplined use of your spells can bring you the win. Sower comes out just because they play so many ways to take it out of the sky, but the other cards to take out come down to personal preference (things like dazes on the draw, for example).

Storm Combo: Even to slightly favorable

Combo is never something you can take lightly. Just because you're playing blue spells doesn't mean you automatically get a win versus these kinds of decks. The key to this matchup is knowing when you can stick dudes to apply pressure while also keeping your opponent at bay. Cards like bolt and fire//ice are obviously bad in these matchups, but its cards like stifle that are amazing here. Just about all of these decks rely on activated or triggered abilities in some shape or form, allowing stifle to act as a one mana counter, exactly the kind of thing you want when fighting a combo deck. The best thing to do here is to be extra careful with how their are sculpting their game plan, and use your countermagic correctly. Vendillion clique here is also fantastic, acting as a pseudo duress while also getting her beat on to the tune of 3 damage a turn. After boarding we get extra counter magic with spell pierce, and maybe REB if they are running enough blue cards. Firespout can also come in, acting as a good answer to empty the warrens. If you're playing it, null rod is also pretty savage in this matchup, blanking their lotus petals, moxes, and LEDs, meaning their mana generation takes a huge hit. All you take out is sower first and then burn like fire//ice and bolt second, with fire//ice coming out first since it deals less damage for more mana, and bolt can be about 3-4 less cards that a ANT player gets to draw if they try to combo off.

Belcher: Favorable

This is the kind of deck that gives belcher the willies. We have a bunch of permission to stop them from comboing out game one, especially spell snare which stops any burning wishes in their tracks. Stifle is also sweet against empty the warrens, since they have to run it out without any discard protection game one. After board things just get better, since we get more counters, firespouts to make the empty plan even worse, and possibly null rod to once again own any artifact plan. The cards you want to board out here are a little different then storm combo, since bolt is actually useful in this matchup, getting rid of tinder walls they run out early, as well as killing xantid swarm they usually board in. Sower is obviously the first card taken out, followed by fire//ice.

Control (UWx landstill, UGB standstill, etc.) Even to slightly favorable

This matchup is where vendillion clique shows its true muscle. The ability to run out a 3 power 3 mana flier at instant speed is great for pressuring a control deck, but the real power is the disruption it offers. When you cast clique, it basically acts as a blue duress, taking their best card and giving them something thats almost always worse. In addition, clique gives you fantastic information on what your opponent has in grip. And it doesn't even have to take anything, allowing you to see your opponents hand of blanks, let them draw nothing new and know exactly what you have to play around. Clique is also fantastic in response to standstill, giving you a chance to disrupt them, put them on a clock, and best of all make them break their own standstill when clique gets them down to low life. It's especially good against the UGB standstill lists, since it actually gets rid of Lftl for a very long time (they have to shuffle, then draw it again). The deck also minds standstill a lot less than others, since we run factories of our own and wastelands to deal with opposing man lands. The board gives you plently of tools to fight control, such a REBs, spell pierces, and krosan grip is the opponent is running things such as humility. The sowers obviously come out, but another cards that usually gets taken out is force of will. It might seem strange to take it out, but in this case you're bringing in one mana counters and taking out zero mana counters that 2-1 yourself. The control player isn't going to be playing out anything at lightning speed anytime soon, so card advantage is a great thing to have in this matchup. Some of the burn is the final stuff that ends up coming out.

Dredge: Unfavorable

This is not a match you really want to play against. The deck can counter their broken spells, and easily remove enablers such as putrid imp, but if their engine starts to rev up it can cause this deck a lot of problems. Graveyard hate out of the board helps, but it's still not a matchup you would really want to play against. Thankfully the deck isn't terribly popular at the moment, which is a great boon to the NLT player. Obviously the graveyard hate comes in, as well as firespout to be able to deal with a bunch of zombie tokens (once the bridges are cleared of course). The main key is to keep them off a discard outlet and try and beat them down quickly with tarmogoyf and friends. Obviously not a great matchup but thems the breaks.

New Horizons: Slightly Unfavorable

They have a very similar game plan, but their creatures are much larger. Sower in this matchup can be fantastic, stealing a knight when the NH player thinks it can go the distance just because we don't play white removal. Jace is also fantastic against them, bouncing their dude back to their hand while we can beat down with something like vendillion clique. Factory/crucible is also amazing against them, since their 8 main creatures that win them the game (goyf and knight) don't have trample, although terravore is a different story. After sideboard things like REB and spell pierce help, as well as having some kind of control magic effect, since they are not likely to board in krosan grip against you. The key to this match is who can get more value out of stifle/wasteland. NH only runs one basic land, so if they are kept off their fetches and their duals, they can easily get stuck with 2 lands waiting for that third one to cast a knight or a terravore. We run 3 basic islands in this deck, which means we can get those 3 lands and then just play the 4th from our hand and then cast things like sower and jace, both of which are awesome in the matchup. Coincidentally, those cards are some of the most important cards in this matchup, along with their 3 mana creatures. If you can get down your four drops while countering or at least slowing down their 3 drops you'll have a good chance at beating the new horizons player. REB comes in to deal with countermagic, as well as extra control magic effects. Relic is also great here, allowing you to first bolt or fire//ice one of their creatures, then remove both graveyards to kill their guy due to state based effects. And of course relic just straight kills terravore on the spot.

Vengevine Madness: Even to slightly unfavorable

The new kid on the block sure has some power, but NLT can fight it pretty well. Spell snare is an all star in this match, getting either their discard outlet or their survival. Also, killing off noble heirarchs is easy with fire//ice, and sometimes we can get two at once. Add in the mana denial package and the survival deck can stumble with its engine. If they manage to find a way to force through survival though, things can get rough very very quickly. The sideboard can help quite a bit, with firespout being awesome against the deck, and REB being great against their countermagic. Krosan grip also get sideboarded for obvious reasons, being able to stop survival in the middle of the activations, and punishing bad players who think they can just wait and respond to your spells with survival activations. Watch out for submerge though, which can be a beating when your tarmogoyf goes back into your library following a fetch land activation. Krosan grip certainly comes in, as does firespout since without a survival on the table they just lose their entire board and gameplan to that one card. Graveyard removal also comes in to slow down their vengevine plan and make them slow down and give yourself so time to find answers to their other threats. The cards you take out are pretty much up to personal opinion

Countertop: Even to favorable

Although it might just be my personal experience, I've found the counterbalance matchup to not be that bad. Most lists have gone to the 4c lists, and we have stifles and wastelands to mess up their mana. Spell snare is awesome once again, being able to counter counterbalance as well as their usual win cons, whether its a goyf or a thopter foundry. Out of the board spell pierce is excellent, as is krosan grip as usual. Control magic/threads can be great against versions with goyf, since they are generally higher casting cost cards that easily turn the match around, or at worst deal with their threat and a swords or path to exile. Never an easy matchup, but barring a really quick top/balance lock that you can't stop, they is always room to play around their cards and find ways to get the incremental advantages you need to win the game. Krosan grip out of the board is pretty sweet here, as is both spell pierce and REB. Null rod is also good to fantastic here is you have it. Sower stays in against green versions of countertop, and go out against the thopter lists. FOW comes out since it gets replaced by the cheap counters, and burn comes out as well.

With the matchups listed, the final thing I would like to show to you is the current list that I play when I go to legacy tournaments:

3 tropical island
3 volcanic island
3 wasteland
3 island
3 mishras factory
2 misty rainforest
2 scalding tarn
1 polluted delta
1 flooded strand

4 brainstorm
4 force of will
4 stifle
2 ponder
3 daze
3 spell snare
4 lightning bolt
3 fire//ice
2 jace the mind sculptor

4 tarmogoyf
3 vendillion clique
2 sower of temptation

sb

2 krosan grip
1 null rod
3 firespout
2 pyroblast
1 red elemental blast
2 spell pierce
2 relic of progenitus
1 tormods crypt
1 control magic

The deck hasn't changed much since I first started running it about 6 months ago, and I have rarely been disappointed with how the deck has performed. If there was any key strategy that has allowed me to win with this deck, it is the idea of proper delegation of your resources to the current play state. This isn't a combo deck that is just trying to kill as fast as possible, or an aether vial deck that is trying to amass some creatures and overwhelm, or a control deck that wants to answer everything it sees and then drop one card and win with that. This deck is fluid; it can switch its role depending on what's going on and adapt accordingly. The deck can play an aggro plan against control and combo, and a control plan versus the aggressive decks in the format without much hassle or sideboarding. Just about every card in the deck can serve a purpose against any opponenet, like how cards like fire//ice are awful against control, but still have a purpose either tapping down a nasty permanent and drawing a card, or just dealing 2 damage to your opponent and killing them. The deck's flexibility can be fantastic, but it really helps to have a pilot who can plot out the course of the game and use the spells they have to their greatest effect.

The final word I have to say is for those who wonder "Why would you play this deck over New Horizons? Isn't this just NH with smaller creatures and worse removal?" To those who ponder this question, you have to understand that playing red has some serious benefits that NH doesn't get to have. First, the sideboard. REB and Firespout are two of the best sideboard cards in legacy. The uses they have are so fantastic that they can something swing a match your direction with little effort. REB is what helps your blue matchup post sideboard, and firespout is just so fantastic against a large portion of the field. The ability to run these two cards can not be praised enough. The other benefit of playing red is that while lightning bolt and fire//ice might not be great against green creatures, they are still awesome against tribal strategies while also not being dead cards against control or combo. If you haven't figured it out from all the times I've mentioned it, I am a huge fan of utility in my decks. That's what this entire deck is to a certain extant. Cards in this deck have so many different options that a good player can get so many small advantages that before you realize it there's a vendillion clique coming in for three a turn and your opponent doesn't have a way to win. With that in mind, the red burn spells aren't as powerful in some matchups where creatures aren't found, but they still have use as burn spells that can finish off an opponent quickly before they have time to get back in the game.

For those curious to see how the deck performs in a very large tournament, take a look at freakish777's tournament report from GP colombus, who placed 62 there;

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...at-GP-Columbus

He's one of my friends and testing partners, and even though I wasn't able to make the GP with my three byes (work is a bitch sometimes), he was still able to go and prove that the deck is strong.

As I play the deck more and new cards continue to come out, I'll include more cards to play and matchup info when I can.


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NLT 2.0 aka why Snapcaster mage is the the nuts

So the deck has come through a few key innovations over the past year and a half since the initial primer, thus I am including some updates on the list and cards the deck has dropped in addition to a few cards that have made the deck far stronger than before. First, some cards that have been put on the backburner for now:

Sower of Temptation: The card used to be great a year ago, but the current state of legacy is not kind to this 4 drop faerie. Decks either have adopted the correct amount of removal, don't care about sower, or just have snapcaster to get their creature back for easy value (more on that little guy in a minute). There's a reason why sower has appeared in almost no maindecks or sideboards for quite some time. It's just the simple fact that this cards time has come and gone.

Daze: There are some decks in which daze is an absolute beating. This is far from the right deck for it, however. Unless you have the stifle into goyf draw, you really aren't putting much pressure on your opponent. Without pressure, daze is just garbage. Your opponent can slow roll all of their spells, and just have an extra mana open at all times. It also doesn't help that many decks are starting to adopt mana bases with more lands, which also hurts daze. Bottom line, this is another card that has suffered from the effects of time and updates to the metagame.

And some explanations for cards which have become modern cornerstones to the deck:

Grim Lavamancer: The card has become slowly better and better over the years as new creatures that enter legacy have usually been value creatures without a ton of toughness. Guys like snapcaster and stoneforge mystic can be a pain in the ass, and are certainly fantastic creatures, but with an active lavamancer in play, they can go back to being just 1 card for the mana the opponent invests, and thus become much easier to answer. In addition, the advent of multiple decks based on green sun's zenith have also greatly increased lavamancer's value. When you can easily answer their mana sources with your single creature, then waste them off green sources (since the decks are usually light on land mana sources), you can just get free wins off of lavamancer. He also helps by being a house versus just about any tribal strategy whatsoever, and just gives you a nice source of damage over the course of the game. The bad synergy with snapcaster mage is annoying, but is not enough of a problem to be worth cutting the lavaman from the deck.

Snapcaster Mage: This single card has brought this deck up into a whole 'nother level of playability (level 2.0, to be precise). He is the real deal and the current reason this list has a ton of staying power. The previous iteration of the deck used to have some issues with finding sources of card advantage, which was only provided by Jace more or less. With snapcaster mage, you get a creature with a good power for it's cost, as well as getting to reuse one of your mana instants and sorceries. Snapcaster is good in many other decks, but is absolutely amazing here due to the variety of spells this deck plays. There are removal spells with bolt and fire//ice, counterspells with spell snare and counterspell and stifle, card draw with both brainstorm and preordain, and plenty of spicy options from the sideboard. Many other snapcaster deck have just brainstorm and swords, and usually spell snare. In those decks snapcaster is like a low quality swiss army knife, with just a knife and a bottle opener as your options. In this deck, you get a nice high quality product, coming with not only a knife, but also a bottle opener, scissors, a file, tweezers, a screw driver, and whatever other options your sideboard says. Bottom line, this is the card that has helped keep the deck on the power curve of the rest of the legacy metagame.

There have been some other small innovations with the deck, which include the loss of mishras factory, the inclusion of ancient grudge in the sideboard due to the presence of stoneforge mystic + batterskull, and a few other changes. Let's just say that you haven't lived until you opponent has reanimated an Iona against you, named blue because it's the obvious choice, only for you to untap, tap three mana, and chaos warp that Iona into their deck :)

The matchup section will remain in the original post, since the way those matches play out has remained mostly unchanged. Some of the sideboard options have changed, but the strategy is similar to before. I'll leave the 2.0 section with the list that I am currently running. The results for the deck speaks for itself, since the first tournament I played it in, I won the whole thing not dropping a single match. The deck has only continued to perform well, even getting a quick deck tech at GP Amsterdam, where the pilot started out 12-1 before three losses knocked him out of top 8 and top 16.

Eric English, 1st Place
RUG

Creatures:
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Grim Lavamancer

Legendary Creatures:
3 Vendilion Clique

Instants/Sorceries:
4 Stifle
3 Spell Snare
4 Force of Will
2 Counterspell
4 Brainstorm
2 Preordain
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Fire//Ice
1 Chaos Warp

Planeswalkers:
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

Basic Land:
2 Island
1 Mountain

Non-Basic Land:
3 Volcanic Island
3 Tropical Island
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Wasteland

Sideboard:
1 Tormod’s Crypt
1 Relic of Progenitus
2 Spell Pierce
4 Red Elemental Blast
1 Firespout
1 Grim Lavamancer
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Gilded Drake
1 Phantasmal Image
1 Mind Harness

chinEsE girl

edit 1: updated matchup analysis and card choices for the sideboard
edit 2: updated decklist, included new cards

[freakish777]

Here's a list of tournament placement's the deck has achieved:

9th at GP Madrid

1st at a 98 person tournament in Europe in March, 2010

7th at a Jupiter Games qualifier

4th at Jupiter Games qualifier

62nd, GP Columbus

3 Byes, T4 or T2, Jupiter Games qualifier

2nd at an 81 person Play The Game/Jupiter Qualifier

1st at a 58 person tournament in June 2010

[Gocho]

OFFTOPIC

Without Threshold creatures, why do you name the deck XX Threshold?

[Tangle.Wire]

because it has nearly the same gameplan, disrupting the opponent with waste/stifle/counter while burning out small creatures to win with creatures like goofy, clique. I also wanted to start playing this deck but i don't like the 4cc cards in it, even jace/sower are to expensive for most situations i tested it.

I am not sure which cards i should pick up for a random meta (for german players its Iserlohn/Dülmen/Dortmund) i think i gonna start with cards i actually own:

4 Tarmogoyf
4 Spellstutter Sprite
2 Vendilion clique
3 grim lavamancer

3 Stifle
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
3 Spell Snare
4 lightning Bolt
4 brainstorm
3 standstill
1 Vedalken Shackles
1 engineered explosives

4 Mishras factory
3 wasteland
4 volcanic island
3 tropical island
3 scalding tarn
3 misty rainforest
1 Island

Sideboard:

1 Hibernation
3 Submerge
2 Krosan Grip
3 Pyroblast
3 Firespout
2 tormods crypt
1 Crucible of worlds

By now its 61 cards, i didnt't want to go less than 4 daze cause i had to cut 1 stifle+1wasteland (compared to canadian t.) so i want to keep the daze to disrupt the early game.
For the Sideboard i am not sure what to pick for artifact/enchantment removal, i love submerge+firespout+öyroblast but the other slots are pretty random, maybe someone can help me out with this list.

[ummon]

OFFTOPIC

Without Threshold creatures, why do you name the deck XX Threshold?

I was wondering the same thing. I mean, aside from being UGr and aggro-control, it has nothing to do with Threshold. Heck, it seems as close to to Madness as it does to Threshold.

[Tortured Existence]

I hate Sower in this deck; its aweful.

Nor do i like crucible/factory. More colored lands/trygon predators/garruck/+1 jace would be better imo

I do like the inclusion of Grim Lavamancer. Almost auto win vs merfolk, and as long as you are careful with stifles fuck up goblins pretty well as well. And its a great multipurpose card, not losing to turn standstill is pretty awesome.

Also don't think dredge is a bad matup at all, we can easily beat it game one if we have a single force for there enabler and then just beat the crap out of them with goyf+burn

[freakish777]

I was wondering the same thing. I mean, aside from being UGr and aggro-control, it has nothing to do with Threshold. Heck, it seems as close to to Madness as it does to Threshold.

You can call it Next Level Tempo if you like.

[Tangle.Wire]

So when we come from the faerie thread to the NL thread i would like to talk about the list i am currently building up for future tournaments, i tested the NL Tempo list aswell for some weeks but i came up with cutting out all 4cc spells as i depend to much on cheap drops even with standstills.

first the list:

4 Tarmogoyf
4 Spellstutter Sprite
2 Vendilion Clique
3 Grim Lavamancer

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Daze
3 Spell Snare
4 Force of Will
3 Standstill
3 Stifle
4 Brainstorm
1 engineered explosives
1 rushing river

4 Mishras factory
3 wasteland
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Scalding tarn
3 tropical island
4 volcanic island
1 island

sideboard:

1 crucible of worlds
2 trygon predator
3 pyrobast
4 submerge
3 firespout
2 tormod's crypt

i run 61 cards as it ended up with more or less explosives or the island as card #61. Cutting down to 20 lands was fine since i don't play sower/jace anymore as both where rarely played while i always drop creature+protect or drop standstill+creature/factory so i dont had many situations where i would like to drop a cc4 spell as the deck wants to use the counterspells for disruption more than protect the own stuff imo.

Talking about "my" list i would like to add a 3rd Vendilion as its so much played that i sometimes would like to have 1 more than the most decks, also for the lategame if we really have standstill+clique we can do bad stuff.

I really had trouble facing aggro loam decks since we have the same problems like the classic canadian tempo list, knight of the reliquiary is really rough pre board.

[freakish777]

I really had trouble facing aggro loam decks since we have the same problems like the classic canadian tempo list, knight of the reliquiary is really rough pre board.

You probably will need more grave hate against aggro loam (2 Crypt seems like too little). I assume Submerge is ok in that match up, but Knight of the Reliquary was one of the reasons for playing Sower of Temptation. Basically letting your opponent dump a fatty in, and then playing Sower with FoW back up gives you an out you don't have otherwise (no Swords/PtE in red).

[kues]

Hi, i've been playing Canadian Threshold Ft. Grim lavamancer (-4 mongoose +4 Lavamancer) for 7 months and i think its time to change.
Im gonna test this deck, starting with this version: http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=37678 .
The spots that im not sure are:
Sower + Jace: Problems with that sorcery speed 4 mana cost.
Dead / Gone: Is a good card, but i feel like i need a card that kills nacatls.

Cards i really like:
2x Firespout: If you have a very aggro meta, this cards is gonna win a lot of games by its own.
1x Crucible: A card that wins Control vs Control pairings.
Dispell + BEB(SB): Spell pierce + Some 'dealt 3 to target creature' will be better.

Cards to test:

Flame Slash: 2/3 Mainboard (instead Dead/Gone) + 2 Firespout = Bye Bye Zoo/Gobs/Merfolks/Bant
Grim Lavamancer: Ive been playing this guy for 7 months, i think i need him xD

[Tangle.Wire]

So when you played canadian before no matter if mongoos/lavamancer don't you miss some bullets against random stuff like rushing rushing river or engineered explosives? I can't say in how many games i had 1:0 cause i could handle a card that normally would be played out better post board. Imo rushing river is awesome for ugr tempo decks.

I also would prefer shackles in the mainboard and crucible in the sideboard as shackles is a bit better against most decks.

How do you guys feel about the sideboard? i think there is not much space for any secret tech or random stuff so we can only pack the usefull stuff.
I have problems what will give the deck more advantage, krosan grip or trygon predator?
For Predator i had really good results for my own when i played canadian t. it can handle more than 1 target and keeps the opponent under presure where krosan grip won't be stopped and is more or less an garanted removal.

For Creatures i think firespout is the correct sweeper for this deck as goofy and faeries will survive it most of the time.
For the other slots i personally play submerge as most decks running creatures we want to target run green so i never had problems playing it and by its pitch ability we don't need our low mana to play it.

For The other slots there should be stuff like spell pierce, pyroblast and maybe the meta choices or graveyard hate.
I would like to hear some issues about sideboarding with this list.

[kues]

I made day2 in GP Madrid with 4xTarmo, 4xLavamancer, 2xVendilions and i had the feeling that those Vendillions won 3-5 games by herselves.
But last couple of months i started playing 1/2 Rushings Rivers and i think they were amazing.
The problem with Rushings is that they were good when we are 'running', for exemple: We have 1 Mongoose + 1 Goyf and our opponent have a goyf + qasali/rhox/random, we bounce them and took their last lives.
EE is a card that i have played a lot (Old extended faeries <3) but i think is a bit slow + doesnt fit on the philosophy of the deck (We want our mana up to play stifle+snare+bolts+brainstorm+vendilions)

About shackles... with qasalis, KotR+Goyfs (usually too big) on one side, and too slow on the other side (against tribal) i wouldnt play them.

About SB, last tournament i played Mind Harness over Submerge, and i really liked them. They won a zoo game that was already lost, and we were good even against goblins (U, kill 1/2 gobs). They will be even better on this deck, which plays 1/3 more lands than canadian.
3 Tormods + Pithing + Krosan + Reb+ Pierces were the other SB cards

[freakish777]

Flame Slash: 2/3 Mainboard (instead Dead/Gone)

If you're going to play Flame Slash, I strongly recommend testing Chain Lightning instead. The only creature that there's a difference between the two cards is Rhox War Monk (Knight and Goyf will be too big). Chain Lightning, while not a card you want to see against combo/control decks, isn't 100% dead either. Chain Lightning does kill Wild Nacatl, and in the event your opponent is dumping some fatty into play of Show and Tell, it at least helps you try to race by doming your opponent.

I think a lot of people aren't understanding just how good Jace the Mindsculptor is. He literally wins you games single-handedly against control decks that you otherwise have no business winning. He wins the top deck war when both players have emptied their hands. He's hands down better than Rushing River, primarily because he's a threat on his own, not just an answer.

[Tangle.Wire]

Re Rushing River: I agree that it is a bit better in canadian t. but as you said i had same problems with explosives as it was quiete to slow. Rushing River often helps to push out the game when it comes down to tempo in case thats our role.. i also often play it without kicker just for a single blocker/moat/propaganda/planeswalker or nearly everything placing the table.

If you want to have more burn in the deck id take lightning bolts+fire/ice beside firespouts, they have proven very well in the past and for me they still do their job.

[Mister Agent]

Instead of Flame slash you could also run forked bolt just like freakish. I've won games against zoo by wasting their plateau and then killing their nacatls, lynxes, and lavamancer with a single forked bolt. I feel that forked bolt is one of the best cards in the deck especially with mana disruption to stop zoo players from achieving early critical mass with their creatures.

[kues]

I would play Fire/Ice instead Forked Bolt.
On the Chain vs Flame Slash discussion, i have to test both (i was going to play 3xCL on my canadian), but i like FS on the paper...

About Jace, i think you are right frekish. In my first test it was good(specially if i curve Tarmo+Firespout+Jace), but maybe only as a 1off...

[chinEsE girl]

So a few things I want to say;

First, about the choices for burn in the deck. I think its safe to say that bolt is a four of, no question. The real issue is what other burn spell should be used along side it to deal with decks like zoo, merfolk, and goblins. Personally I hate sorcery speed removal like chain lightning and flame slash, but I see their use in a metagame filled with zoo so they're decent in theory. In real games though I found fire//ice to be just as good as what you want chain lightning and flame slash to be. Against zoo fire//ice deals with lynx and lavamancer easily (something both at the same time!), as well as killing 2/2 nacatls and pridemages. Against tribal decks it kills any lord on its own, and often can get 2 X/1's at the same time. At the very least I feel that fire//ice is vastly superior to forked bolt, since it does all that forked bolt does at instant speed, while also have the utility of the blue side, for only 1 extra colorless mana. I know freakish plays forked bolt to deal with noble heirarch on the draw, but for me personally the utility and overall flexibility makes fire//ice the clear choice IMO.

And about sower of temptation, it's not surprising that it's the first card people don't find to be great. There are certainly a lot of matchups where the card comes out in favor of something else. However, I find that it is worth running just because it helps you so much against green decks, which can be some of your most difficult matchups. Knight of the reliquary is not something this deck can easily deal with, but a single sower can swing things around so quickly that its worth running. However, if I were to change anything in the deck, sower is probably the first card I would cut. So far I haven't seen anything that deserves to take it's place, but if new cards come out that deserve a chance they will probably take the sowers place. For those of you who just hate sowers guts and want to cut it now, i'd suggest trying things like grim lavamancer, another jace, or possibly another land. It really depends on what your metagame is like, since each of those cards has their own purpose and can be the right call in one place and be really bad somewhere else.

[sa17dk]

As much as I like Jace in any deck with a blue shell, I'm not quite sure if this is the deck to run him in. In a deck with ~20 lands, four of which blow up (Wasteland), I dont know how you're finding the mana to cast him. I've been playing a lot of Team America and even Vendilion Clique can be hard to cast at times.

[chinEsE girl]

Yeah, the mana issue is always something to be concerned about, but somehow when me and freakish have played this deck we have almost never had a serious problem casting jace. Usually it ends up with us getting to 4 mana in a reasonable amount of time and slamming down jace, or jace becomes force of will fodder and we move along. Clique on the other hand I've never been even close to have trouble casting, since we get to run basic islands in this list unlike team america which runs a basic swamp. All you really need are two basics to protect from wasteland, then fetch and play clique, then win. Also, the deck only runs three wastelands, not four, since we have the singleton crucible here to act as additional land destruction/mana/creatures for whatever the situation is.

[Tangle.Wire]

to chinese: I don't want to make sower bad at all but it was the first card i kicked out of the mainboard as you said its only strong in some matchups so i still think about placing 2-3 "steal" effects to the sideboard but i am not sure what to run there at all. I peronally preffer Control magic as the opponents wont side in enchantment removal and sower eats a lot of removal.

For the burn cards there is also psionic blast ;D but fire/ice really holds the deck flexible as it can cantrip/disrupt/burn or pitch to force so we always find a way to use it.

Anyone ever tried chain of vapor in this deck? Along tarmogoyf its not bad if they sacrifice a land to give us a clique/spellstutter back + the opportunity to copy the chain again. I loved the chain since i played it in canadian but there i also had the mongoose with shroud that couldn't get bounced back to my hand.
.. i also had situations where i had to return my own goyf to hand vs swords/path