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Thread: [DTB] Sneak Attack

  1. #41
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    Re: Sneak Attack with Show and Tell

    Haha yeah man, Dryad Arbor is pretty cute.

    Innocent Blood is certainly a problem for this deck and there really isn't much of anything we get in terms of relief from the board in UR.

    If you're seeing a lot of The Gate or other decks running Innocent Blood you've gotta do something to improve your match-up. Dryad Arbor definitely leaves something to be desired, but for pure sneakiness factor in a Sneak Attack deck--I say bravo!

  2. #42

    Re: Sneak Attack with Show and Tell

    I finished 3th with a 5-1 yesterday with this list:

    // Lands
    3 [B] Island (3)
    1 [A] Mountain (1)
    4 [B] Volcanic Island
    4 [ZEN] Scalding Tarn
    1 [ON] Polluted Delta
    1 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
    4 [TE] Ancient Tomb

    // Creatures
    4 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
    4 [CFX] Progenitus

    // Spells
    3 [US] Sneak Attack
    4 [US] Show and Tell
    4 [IA] Brainstorm
    4 [TE] Intuition
    4 [AL] Force of Will
    4 [M10] Ponder
    4 [TE] Lotus Petal
    4 [NE] Daze
    3 [PT] Personal Tutor

    // Sideboard
    SB: 3 [A] Red Elemental Blast
    SB: 3 [DK] Blood Moon
    SB: 3 [DS] Echoing Truth
    SB: 3 [SHM] Firespout
    SB: 3 [ZEN] Spell Pierce

    I won against Goblins, Zoo, UW-Faeris, Bant and Death n Taxes. I lost only to Canadian Threshold.

    I like the deck but it has one major problem: It's very hard to win against the tempodecks. u can often steal g1 due to the fact that they dont know what ur playing but g2 and g3 is very very hard to win because they know that they only need to counter SaT and Sneak Attack. I guess we need to develop due to this matchups. being only 2 coloured is definately a plus but they have 4 daze, 4 spell pierce 4 fow and depending if its merfolk or can.*****: 4 cursecatcher, 4 standstill or 4 REB.

    Against Merfolk we have 3 REB and 3 Firespout and against Can.Treshhold we have 3 Moon and 3 REB.

    How can we improve those MUs ?

  3. #43
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    Re: Sneak Attack with Show and Tell

    Nice finish, I find your list interesting for a number of reasons, but let's start with your question: How can we improve our match-up against Merfolk, Tempo Thresh and the like?

    Considering that (in my environment) these are the most popular of the decks Sneak and Tell struggles with, I've begun maindecking 1 Pyroblast and 1 REB (though Spell Pierce is fine in its place if this doesn't appeal to you). I'm now running a counter suite of 4 FoW, 4 Daze, 1 Pyroblast, 1 Red Elemental Blast. In the board I have 1 Pyroblast, 1 REB, and 3 Spell Pierce.

    Against Next Level Thresh/Tempo and other tempo based decks, always play around Wasteland and take for granted that they have 1 Stifle in hand. You can actually surprise the Tempo player in game 1 into thinking he/she is up against the mirror and if you get a solid starting hand and wait for double counter backup, you can steal game 1.

    After game 1 I get my other REB effects and Blood Moons. The only time I ever beat this deck post board is when I can resolve a Blood Moon. You have lots of counters too and a Blood Moon can be just as devastating as a Sneak Attack/Show and Tell, plus it's another way to draw out counters before you go for the action spell holding your counters.

    Maindeck REB effects also rock against Merfolk. I haven't got much in the way of ideas except more REB effects and more Firespouts if you're seeing a lot of fishies.

    Looking at your 6 matches, the Pyroblasts probably saw action in 3 of them. In a longer tournament It would likely be more frequently. I went through my tournament history over the past few months and calculated that I was using REB effects in just under 70% of my matches. Because I feel confident in many of my match-ups that aren't running blue, and because of how popular blue is in general, I don't find it problematic to maindeck them. If they aren't running blue, sideboarding becomes painless and at worst you might be left with a dead card game 1 vs. Goblins or Zoo. (Was that spell pierce really gunna help you anyway?)

    I don't think I said anything you weren't already aware of, but that's my 2 cents. Nice deck man.

  4. #44

    Re: Sneak Attack with Show and Tell

    hey spell pierce went to the sideboard that morning cause quite some people were playing combo (mostly DD). i think we dont have a too bad MU against the graveyard decks so crypt isnt needed that much.

    i really like the personal tutors, they offer turn 2 show and tells with a petal or a tomb much more often. what other cards could solve the tempo-deck-weakness. defense grid? more REB? a 4th bloodmoon? misdirections ?

    i think sneak and tell is really good in the meta but we need to find a way to counter merfolk and can.***** ?

    any thoughts?

  5. #45
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    Re: Sneak Attack with Show and Tell

    @ APodeschwa:

    Merfolk really isn't as bad of a match up as you’re making it out to be. Yes it is true, it is definitely not one of our more favorable matchups, but it is still very beatable.

    I also play 4x FOW and 4X Daze main right now with 4x REB, 3x Blood Moon and 3x Fire spout in the board. I beat both fish decks 2-0 this past Saturday. All of those cards are amazing against Merfolk. That is a lot of hate for any one deck.

    I do have to say that playing 4x intuition is manifestly excessive. Not only is it too slow, but it will cost a whooping four (or more) to play against fish at any given time with cursecatcher, daze and spell pierce and all. I am starting to like personal tutor but intuition just doesn't do for this deck what it does for Aluren for example. I also don't like the fact that you’re not sporting even 2x Seething Song. It is one of those cards that you hate to put it but still needs to be included nevertheless. Look at all the top Sneak Show decks that have topped 8 at any major Legacy event recently; they all have 2-3.

  6. #46
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    Re: Sneak Attack with Show and Tell

    @ APodeschwa:

    Yeah I don't really know what to say about extra support in the tempo MU. One of the main advantages to red mana in legacy is REB (and Firespout). And the ability to run Blood Moon out of the board is huge. REB and Blood Moon together is 6-7 extremely relevant spells in that MU. I really can't see making too much more fuss about a deck that comprises less than 5% of the Meta I'm used to seeing.

    Defense Grid isn't as patently absurd as it seemed to me at first glance and if your environment sees a lot of Tempo, Thresh, and Landstill maybe 2 or 3 holes in the board are worthwhile.

    I have to agree with Demonic Attorney that x4 Intuition is excessive. 1 is nice to fix a hand or find a key SB card in a particular MU, but the deck doesn't crave it or abuse it any special way.

    Merfolk is not a MU that you want to see, but it's a MU that a lot of decks don't want to see--that's why it's popular. Again, in Legacy, if you're splashing red, it's for the awesomeness of REB and Firespout. They're both bombs against those pesky fish. You have 6 to 7 cards of super-spice games 2 and 3, 3 of which read "Wrath of God for 3 mana", 3 to 4 of which read "counter any spell or blow up any dude for 1 mana." If you're always dropping this match, you're not hitting any of the SB. If they start to curve out like a champ, it's gonna be a painful match, but this matchup is not un-winnable if you can hit even 1 piece of counter magic/ 1 Firespout.

    So idk man. I'll of course keep thinking on it, but my gut tells me I'm devoting about as much SB space as I reasonably can to combat tempo and merfolk.

    Personal Tutor is certainly a legitimate option, especially considering that your deck is much more heavily oriented towards Show and Tell. I also really like that it snags Firespout from the board. In limited testing on MWS though, I've wished it was either a monster or a counterspell more than half the time.

    Oh and I really think Tormod's Crypt is preferable to Echoing Truth, but it's your call. In theory, Echoing Truth has more utility, but not in practice. I just never bring it in from the board. Yeah it is good against Dredge, but you know what's even better? TCrypt. Unless you are bringing in Echoing Truth in MU's that I'm not accounting for, in every case that Echoing Truth is relevant from the board, TCrypt is just better. That's a pretty simplistic assertion, but I'd love to get deeper into the precepts of my argument if anyone wants to make a case for Echoing Truth.

  7. #47

    Re: Sneak Attack with Show and Tell

    Hey all,

    in a few weeks we will have nationals here and i am planning on playing this deck. I played the folliowing list during the side event of the pro-tour Amsterdam:

    3 Ancient Tomb
    2 Island
    4 Misty Rainforest
    1 Mountain
    4 Scalding Tarn
    4 Volcanic Island

    4 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
    4 Woodfall Primus
    2 progentius

    4 Brainstorm
    4 Daze
    4 Force of Will
    3 Lotus Petal
    4 Ponder
    3 Seething Song
    4 Show and Tell
    4 Sneak Attack
    2 Spell Pierce

    Sideboard
    2 firespout
    2 wipe away
    1 tormod's crypt
    1 relic of progentius
    3 blood moon
    4 pyroblast

    Won against the gate, lands and burn...lost to ANT and Rock (had 14 hate cards sb and played a mb needle)

    I was impressed by the sheer power of the deck, but like other people here...i fear the tempo match-up. Goblins is duable, they do not counter anything so you can set up, but New Horizons and Merfolk, two popular decks are more difficult.

    What do you guy;s advice in changes in the MB and SB concerning nationals? I really want to destroy Merfolk for once;-)
    Team Nijmegen

  8. #48

    Re: Sneak Attack with Show and Tell

    well i changed my list to the follwing:

    // Lands
    3 [B] Island (3)
    1 [A] Mountain (1)
    4 [B] Volcanic Island
    4 [ZEN] Scalding Tarn
    1 [ON] Polluted Delta
    1 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
    4 [TE] Ancient Tomb

    // Creatures
    4 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
    4 [CFX] Progenitus
    1 [SOM] Liege of the Tangle

    // Spells
    3 [US] Sneak Attack
    4 [US] Show and Tell
    4 [IA] Brainstorm
    3 [TE] Intuition
    4 [AL] Force of Will
    4 [M10] Ponder
    4 [TE] Lotus Petal
    4 [NE] Daze
    3 [PT] Personal Tutor

    // Sideboard
    SB: 2 [A] Red Elemental Blast
    SB: 3 [DK] Blood Moon
    SB: 3 [SHM] Firespout
    SB: 2 [IA] Pyroblast
    SB: 2 [TSP] Wipe Away
    SB: 3 [DK] Tormod's Crypt

    the choices:

    liege of the tangle: i really wanna test this guy, in some situations (all decks without stp, path or perish) hes quite good, expecially with sneak attack. but i think he wont get the maindeckslot because he is only good in some sitautions and only with sneak attack. maybe ill add a 9th brainstorm (preordain) or a misdirection.

    no seething song: i only have 3 sneak attack and this spell is only good with sneak. often it is a dead card. sometimes its good but only sometimes.

    personal tutor: offers more often turn 2 emrakuls

    wipe away: bounce CBs, humilities, other shitty cards.

  9. #49
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    Re: Sneak Attack with Show and Tell

    Quote Originally Posted by Muppet86 View Post

    What do you guy;s advice in changes in the MB and SB concerning nationals? I really want to destroy Merfolk for once;-)
    I think you're going to find that "plan A" with this deck is a quick Show and Tell. That said, I would consider flipping the count on the bottom two critters and running 4 Progenitus, 2 Woodfall Primus (or maybe a 3/3 split). Progenitus wins the game more often than not if you only have Show and Tell and resolve it turn 2 or 3. If you're stuck with just Woodfall Primus in hand when you cast Show and Tell, you're gunna have problems.

    If you're really worried about your MU's against Tempo based decks and Merfolk in particular and are expecting a good deal of them, maindeck REB effects. If you wanna go in ready to crush aggro and especially Merfolk you can maindeck a pair of REBs and a pair of Firespouts.

    Also if you haven't given Intuition a try, I'd consider testing 2-3 as I've found it helps to smooth out the deck.

    I've found New Horizons to be a favorable MU for me. I'm 5-2 (11-5) lifetime with SneakShow vs. this deck. If they don't run Karakas it's pretty painless (and most builds aren't, not yet anyway). Yeah mana denial in the form of Stifle can be annoying, but Blood Moon is a complete devastation for NH and Next Level Tempo (thresh). Also, if you resolve a Sneak Attack, Show and Tell, OR a Blood Moon it's generally GG on the spot.

    I hope this gives you something to chew on. Can't wait to hear about a stellar result!

  10. #50
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    Re: Sneak Attack with Show and Tell

    Quote Originally Posted by APodeschwa View Post
    well i changed my list to the follwing:

    // Lands
    3 [B] Island (3)
    1 [A] Mountain (1)
    4 [B] Volcanic Island
    4 [ZEN] Scalding Tarn
    1 [ON] Polluted Delta
    1 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
    4 [TE] Ancient Tomb

    // Creatures
    4 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
    4 [CFX] Progenitus
    1 [SOM] Liege of the Tangle

    // Spells
    3 [US] Sneak Attack
    4 [US] Show and Tell
    4 [IA] Brainstorm
    3 [TE] Intuition
    4 [AL] Force of Will
    4 [M10] Ponder
    4 [TE] Lotus Petal
    4 [NE] Daze
    3 [PT] Personal Tutor

    // Sideboard
    SB: 2 [A] Red Elemental Blast
    SB: 3 [DK] Blood Moon
    SB: 3 [SHM] Firespout
    SB: 2 [IA] Pyroblast
    SB: 2 [TSP] Wipe Away
    SB: 3 [DK] Tormod's Crypt

    the choices:

    liege of the tangle: i really wanna test this guy, in some situations (all decks without stp, path or perish) hes quite good, expecially with sneak attack.
    I really like your sideboard; mainly because mine is the exact same right now (4x Pyrobast instead of REB).

    Playing only 3 Sneak Attack is definitely suspect in any build or version of this deck. I have yet to see any that have sported less then a full play set. I strongly suggest taking out one of your 3 Intuition or 3 Personal Tutors to play the 4th Sneak Attack. 3x Personal Tutor and 3x Intuition still seems like too much.

    Moreover, what further aggravates it, particularly in your build is the fact that you are running, or going to be running a card that is much better off of Sneak Attack then it is show and tell; that being Liege of the Tangle.

    All that being said, have you actually tested the 3x Intuition with 3x Personal Tutor in any 40-50+ player Legacy Events?

    I am going to be playing this deck in the only side event Legacy Tournament at Grand Prix Toronto this weekend. Anybody else plan on attending? It is for a Beta Ancestral Recall. They are anticipating well over 100 players and I am looking forward to see how this deck does in a large scale Legacy Tourney.

  11. #51
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    Re: Sneak Attack with Show and Tell

    Sadly I can't make it up to Toronto this weekend--too busy. Good Luck Demonic Attorney--can't wait to hear a report.

    @APodeschwa:

    Is their any particular reason you're not running the 4th Sneak Attack?

    And I've gotta say that Liege of the Tangle doesn't thrill me so much in Legacy's removal heavy environment. It's true that if you crash with him you are very likely to win, but at least when Woodfall Primus gets swords he takes a land with him.

    It is an intriguing card though. Test it out and let us know what you think. Ultimately though, I'm skeptical that it'll earn a spot in the deck in the current environment... Misdirection, though, is a card I go back and forth with. It counters any opponents counterspell on the stack by deflecting it to itself, essentially acting as Force backup when trying to resolve an action spell, and it has other (albeit much more limited) applications against nasty threats like Hymn to Tourach and Thoughtsieze.

    Misdirection is a spell deserving of strong consideration. Free hard-counters in backup situations are just what this deck wants.

  12. #52
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    Re: Sneak Attack with Show and Tell

    Quote Originally Posted by Demonic_Attorney View Post
    I am going to be playing this deck in the only side event Legacy Tournament at Grand Prix Toronto this weekend. Anybody else plan on attending? It is for a Beta Ancestral Recall. They are anticipating well over 100 players and I am looking forward to see how this deck does in a large scale Legacy Tourney.
    I definetly think it's a strong choice right now. I've run this deck in 3 hyper-competetive tournaments with between 75 and 115 players and made top 8 each time. I'm glad to hear that someone will be representing it!

  13. #53

    Re: Sneak Attack with Show and Tell

    I played this deck in 3 tourneys yet:

    1. 87 people finishing 3th with 6:1
    2. 76 people finishing 4th with 5: 1 :1
    3: 54 people " 3th " 4 :1

    Alltogether 15: 3: 1.

    i lost 2 matches to merfolk and 1 to canadian. i never felt i was missing a 4th sneak attack. intuition helped me to find the creatures i was looking for.

    i think liege of the tangle wont get a maindeck slot although i would love to have a 9th creature. in a format full of StP liege is not good enough. is there any creature that has the following things except emrakul and progenitus:

    1. shroud or "emrakul-shroud"
    2. the license to kill nearly always in no more than 2 rounds.
    3. good with SaT and SA.

    i think the only debateble slot is what to play instead of the 4th intuition: a 9th brainstorm (preordain), a creature, a "creature tutor" or a misdirection. i looked at all the creatures availible but none of them solve 1. and 2. except emrakul and progi.

    i nearly never used intuition to find a sneak attack or a show and tell (due to personal tutor), nearly always i tutored for the creature of choice or for force of will or for a sideboard card.

    by the way why do all guys play seething song, except with sneak attack or eot seething song into 2x intuition or having extra mana to resolve show and tell (tempo decks often just counter ur seething song and restart beating u with there guys, this is often a turn too much) it is always a bad deal to play it. of course petal + tomb + seething song + sneak attack + 2 creature is very good, but thats the nuts draw that u'll have about <0,5% times. personal tutor is way better there because it offers much more turn 2 SaTs, in the early game its like an extra SaT (4SaT + 3 Perso = 7 SaT that should be availible turn 2 or 3) - it makes the deck much more consistent.

    sneak attack to me is nearly always the option no 2 except u need the haste emrakul to deal with lethal dmg from ur opp. on the next turn. the good thing about sneak is that ur opps REBs do nothing against it, but krosan grip handles it and so does pithing needle. show and tell is often mch better and much faster. thats why i see no reason to play seething song over personal tutor.

    woodfall primus has 1 major problem: it is bad with show and tell and it isnt that good with sneak attack. liege of the tangle is much better than the primus. i would love to run a 9th or even 10th creature but all the creatures i found were just bad.

    Liege of the tangle seems like place 3. but not having shroud is a pain in the as s.

  14. #54
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    Re: Sneak Attack with Show and Tell

    Quote Originally Posted by APodeschwa View Post
    by the way why do all guys play seething song. personal tutor is way better there because it offers much more turn 2 SaTs, in the early game its like an extra SaT (4SaT + 3 Perso = 7 SaT that should be availible turn 2 or 3) - it makes the deck much more consistent.

    sneak attack to me is nearly always the option no 2 except u need the haste emrakul to deal with lethal dmg from ur opp. on the next turn. the good thing about sneak is that ur opps REBs do nothing against it, but krosan grip handles it and so does pithing needle. show and tell is often mch better and much faster. thats why i see no reason to play seething song over personal tutor.

    woodfall primus has 1 major problem: it is bad with show and tell and it isnt that good with sneak attack. liege of the tangle is much better than the primus. i would love to run a 9th or even 10th creature but all the creatures i found were just bad.

    Liege of the tangle seems like place 3. but not having shroud is a pain in the as s.
    Seething Song has been discussed so many times in this thread. There's only 1 reason it sees play: it has truly fantastic synergy with Sneak Attack. Seething Song absolutely wins games for this deck...like right away if you've got Sneak Attack. Personal Tutor is kinda like another Show and Tell...one that reads "Skip your next draw and reveal to your opponent your entire plan. P.S. hope you weren't low on mana considering you are running a whopping 18 lands." If you already have three mana in hand (at least 1 being a Tomb or Petal), Personal Tutor means you get to attack with Emrakul, not this turn, not next turn, but if you're lucky the turn after next. That's only if you don't have to waste a turn or two to cantrip and find mana or counter backup (considering your opponent knows your strategy). Seething Song either reads "RAAAAARRRRR HERE COMES A MONSTER!" or "Please ignore me." You didn't even have to stop cantriping and you can always send it home with Brainstorm if you're lucky enough to do so. So Seething Song is a speed thing. Just a speed thing, not a consistancy thing. If we ran our decks against each other I'd win because I have Seething Song.

    Ok, Krosan Grip hits Sneak Attack, sure, but not before you get an activation in. Split Second doesn't override priority. Unless the race is on, if there's a chance my opponent has enchantment removal, I never cast Sneak Attack unless I have the mana to activate it aswell. Seething Song makes this crazy easy.

    Now you're right that Woodfall Primus isn't neccesarily desireable with Show and Tell, but what do you do when your opponent plops down Ensnaring Bridge off of Show and Tell (or manages to resolve one)? Scoop? That's pretty lame. Lands, ThopterSword combo, Burning Bridges, and many Landstill builds run Ensnaring Bridge maindeck. Woodfall Primus is your one maindeck out to Bridge. Plus it gets your stuff out from underneath Oblivion Ring, and blows up Karakas, Pithing Needle, an occasional Moat, and Jace. In fact it does all this even if it gets hit by swords/path. So I disagree that "Liege of the Tangle is much better than Primus." It's scope may be limited, but Woodfall Primus has proven itself valuable in this deck.

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    Re: Sneak Attack with Show and Tell

    Two questions for you Pat,

    1. How is your vengevine matchup?

    I think thats the biggest question for today's meta. Any deck that can't handle plants seems like a weak choice to play.

    2. Whats your current list?

    I know you cut the spell pierces for the last vestal, are you still running things that way? We've decided its time to stop ignoring your insane results with the deck and start testing it.

  16. #56

    Re: Sneak Attack with Show and Tell

    @Jonbarber,

    i've tested a lot against the plants. The annoying thing is that they have waste+stifle and a quick clock. Other than that, they do not counter that much. Sneaky show usually goes t2/t3 or so. They go t3/t4. You are quicker, and emrakul is a beating for them.

    The annyoing bit is though that once they have the vengevine, they will have enough permanets to sack to your emrakul, and will beat you the next turn.

    @ APodeschwa
    If you cut the liege, you are at 8 creatures. Do you think that will be enough? I'm running 10 at the moment. Is the personal tutor that good for you that you do not need the extra 2 creature slots?

    (sorry for the English guys, it's not my first language)
    Team Nijmegen

  17. #57
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    Re: Sneak Attack with Show and Tell

    Quote Originally Posted by JonBarber View Post
    Two questions for you Pat,

    1. How is your vengevine matchup?

    I think thats the biggest question for today's meta. Any deck that can't handle plants seems like a weak choice to play.

    2. Whats your current list?

    I know you cut the spell pierces for the last vestal, are you still running things that way? We've decided its time to stop ignoring your insane results with the deck and start testing it.
    On the whole, my Vengine matchup is even to slightly favorable. In competetive legacy I'm 3-0 (6-1) vs Vegevival. It does vary slightly depending on the build. The white splash version is better for SneakShow, dropping Wasteland (and in some builds Stifle) Vengevival loses the 1 tempo gaining stragey it has vs. this deck. The fact of the matter is though, SneakShow is faster on average. Or I should say Emrakul is faster on average (the game I dropped yeilded me a turn 3 progen off of Show and Tell and I got outraced). In theory it's a matchup very similar to Merfolk (quick clock/countermagic/some mana denial), but we get to utilize graveyard hate from the board instead of Firespout. Game 1 I play to keep the opponent off of SotF and if he wants to blow all his counterbackup in order to jam it into play that's just fine because I'm playing an action spell next turn. So yeah, this deck can handle Vengevival.

    This is my list today:

    4 Sneak Attack
    4 Show and Tell

    4 Force of Will
    3 Daze
    1 Red Elemental Blast
    1 Pyroblast

    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder
    3 Intuition

    4 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
    3 Progenitus
    2 Woodfall Primus

    3 Lotus Petal
    2 Seething Song

    4 Scalding Tarn
    4 Misty Rainforest
    3 Volcanic Island
    3 Island
    1 Mountain
    3 Ancient Tomb

    SB:

    1 Pyroblast
    1 Red Elemental Blast
    1 Echoing Truth
    3 Tormod's Crypt
    3 Spell Pierce
    3 Firespout
    3 Blood Moon


    P.S. If you wanna get really spicy and improve your Vengvine mathup a bit more, a black splash offers MD Lim-Dul's Vault and SB Extirpate.

  18. #58
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    Re: Sneak Attack with Show and Tell

    Hmm... woodfall primus as a 2 of seems weaker because you can no longer intuition for him. Also, maindeck REBs aye? Did you play those on the last vestal? Is this to improve the maindeck merfolk matchup?

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    Re: Sneak Attack with Show and Tell

    Here's the thing: Woodfall Primus was a 3 of for me when ThopterSword was gaining popularity a few months back and Landstill was still seeing a fair amount of play. Now due to the popularity of Vengevival in the current meta, ThopterSword and Landstill have fallen out of favor because they have a poor matchup against it. Thus, Woodfall Primus has become a less relavent spell right about now. In a long tournament, I may still have to stare down an Ensnaring Bridge at some point so I can't justify cutting it out completely, but the amount of times I actually want to Intuition for it is incredibly narrow. It could still happen and I'll take my lumps because I'd rather have a piece of countermagic in most circumstances.

    Maindeck REBs. Aye. Didn't run them last Vestal, but the next day in Rochester I got devastated by Next Level Tempo and just barely snuck by Fish after dropping game 1. I went through my tournament history of late and found that they were entering my deck in 70% of my matches anyway. Among the decks that SneakShow struggles with (Tempo-based decks, Merfolk, Landstill, Thopter combo, and Mono-black Aggro) REB is an important card in the majority of them, especially considering the unequal proportion of Tempo and Merfolk among them in the overall Legacy meta. REB is good against Fish, against New Horizons, against Vengvival, and against Thresh/Tempo strategies and that comprises a pretty healthy portion of the meta already. (It also allows you to stop TES from cantripping.) Ok, so it's a dead card against Goblins and Zoo. I'm still a pretty healthy favorite there and Spell Pierce is pretty much irrelavant in those MU's anyhow.

    That's my rationale anyway, but Spell Pierce fills that spot adaquetly too.

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    Re: Sneak Attack with Show and Tell

    Quote Originally Posted by JustPAT4 View Post
    Here's the thing: Woodfall Primus was a 3 of for me when ThopterSword was gaining popularity a few months back and Landstill was still seeing a fair amount of play. Now due to the popularity of Vengevival in the current meta, ThopterSword and Landstill have fallen out of favor because they have a poor matchup against it. Thus, Woodfall Primus has become a less relavent spell right about now. In a long tournament, I may still have to stare down an Ensnaring Bridge at some point so I can't justify cutting it out completely, but the amount of times I actually want to Intuition for it is incredibly narrow. It could still happen and I'll take my lumps because I'd rather have a piece of countermagic in most circumstances.

    Maindeck REBs. Aye. Didn't run them last Vestal, but the next day in Rochester I got devastated by Next Level Tempo and just barely snuck by Fish after dropping game 1. I went through my tournament history of late and found that they were entering my deck in 70% of my matches anyway. Among the decks that SneakShow struggles with (Tempo-based decks, Merfolk, Landstill, Thopter combo, and Mono-black Aggro) REB is an important card in the majority of them, especially considering the unequal proportion of Tempo and Merfolk among them in the overall Legacy meta. REB is good against Fish, against New Horizons, against Vengvival, and against Thresh/Tempo strategies and that comprises a pretty healthy portion of the meta already. (It also allows you to stop TES from cantripping.) Ok, so it's a dead card against Goblins and Zoo. I'm still a pretty healthy favorite there and Spell Pierce is pretty much irrelavant in those MU's anyhow.

    That's my rationale anyway, but Spell Pierce fills that spot adaquetly too.
    Makes sense. Considering that rational of improving bad matchups main deck, have you thought about adding blood moon back to the main? It simply wins against so many decks, and definitely helps the landstill and temp matchup. Not to mention, nuking vengevines duals shuts them off precious green mana. What you say are your big reasons for not playing it maindeck?

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