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its also tech from 43 lands to beat elf combo and is passable against ub ant.
So has anyone put together the Hive Mind transformational sideboard yet?
Ryan wrote an article about Hypergenesis vs. Sneak Attack/Sneak and Show: Show Me Something New: Why Hypergenesis Isn’t Worth Writing Home About.
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It's from a page back, but from the Dredge players perspective, Cage is spotty indeed. If your goal is to delay the opposing deck cage can work out fine, but as a hoser it's absolutely shit.
Cage prevents Dredge from 2-3 things, depending on list, namely Dread Return(if you run any), Flashback Cabal Therapy and putting Narcomoebas/Ichrorids into play. The problem is that as a Dredge player, you mull until you are sure you can beat Cage+1 Counter or so, then flip your deck, kill the cage, kill them. Also you can still get Zombies with Cage in play.
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How do you get zombies if you're not flashing back therapy/dread return or putting ichorids into play?
(I understand they come from the stack, not the GY, I just don't know what situations you're being put in to make them)
Putrid Imp only costs 1 mana, Thug and Moeba 2. Your deck provides the sac outlet. I know it's not likely enough, but still, it can work. That's why Cage is so bad imo. It doesn't affect my ability to dredge/I can still have Zombies.
But as I said, I was talking about Cage being a hoser. It still delays the Dredge player.
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How does Dredge remove Cage against a deck packing counters? How does Dredge hope to win when it can't reliably remove Cage? Once Cage lands, they need to hope they draw into a Nature's Claim or something similar, and typically, by drawing one card a turn, their chances of drawing multiple Claims are very thin, so if you can Spell Pierce or Force their singleton Claim, you have locked them out of the game until you can win with your own game plan. And if they mulligan into a Claim hand, and you counter it, they're in the same predicament and don't want to dredge until they draw another Claim.
I've literally never lost a game against a Dredge player when I landed Cage with at least one counter backup.
In my opinion, Cage is the 2nd best Dredge hoser in the game behind Leyline.
You can get Zombies with Cage in play, but how are you sacrificing creatures without flashback being active?
West side
Find me on MTGO as Koby or rukcus -- @MTGKoby on Twitter
* Maverick is dead. Long live Maverick!
My Legacy stream
My MTG Blog - Work in progress
MGB: the play is to wait and just dredge a ton, and wait for a window of opportunity. If you have Therapy, you can check for counters, try to catch them with like 3 cards in hand tapped out/response to fetch or something. Its managable. Cage isn't a hoser bc it doesn't prevent everything relevant a Dredge deck does(i.e. Dredging)
Koby: sorry I phrased it kinda vague. What I meant is as long as I can put 2-3 creatures into play, Sneak Attack into Emrakul is my sac outlet. Obv Griselbrand + Emmy is too much. But I won quite a number of games by just being attacked with an Emrakul. It's still a corner case though.
This man is a truthspeaker! You deserve a beer - if you see me in Ghent, you may present yourself to me as The Speaker of Truths and I will buy you a beer of choice
At the point where Emrakul becomes the sacrifice outlet, it might be too late to really matter. With Cage in play, Griselbrand is usually the better choice (given an option, well duh of course its the better option, drawing 14 cards vs no pressure... I digress).
If we have all the time in the world against opponent that we have forced to durdle (Blood Moon, Cage, counter decks), then it's entirely within the possibility just to setup Sneak Attack plans. That's the safest and quickest method to ending games once we resolve our enabler.
It's possible that with Cage out we still lose to Zombie tokens. But that would be hard to walk into considering it involves 100% public information.
West side
Find me on MTGO as Koby or rukcus -- @MTGKoby on Twitter
* Maverick is dead. Long live Maverick!
My Legacy stream
My MTG Blog - Work in progress
Dredging is pointless if you can't eventually remove Cage. You can't cast anything from the graveyard, so dredging into stuff like Ancient Grudge is pointless. The only thing the dredge player can do is to actually draw cards intead of dredging and hope to land a Nature's Claim or similar hate spell. And if the Dredge player is drawing cards one per turn and hoping for a topdeck, then he has already lost against most decks.
And while you are waiting for a "window of opportunity" (I assume you meant if you have a hate card like Claim already in your hand) your opponent is also building counterspells in his hand and probably casting his game-winning spell pretty soon.
Competent players who run both counters and cage will practically never lose to Dredge if they have one of each in their hand.
You guys forget this is HokusSchmokus were talking about. Hes never lost a competitve Match of Magic with Dredge to Leyline of the Void!!
I'm sure a measly cage wont deter him.
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Been there, tried that, still casting Doomsday.
Drawing my deck for 0 mana since 2013.
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