Agreed with death, Gifts is too slow. LDV is much better. I just did some more testing tonight and I realized that LDV -> personal tutor. I know the extra mana is not hot on paper, but guys try it! I've found the following situations come up very often and LDV straight up won me the game when personal tutor couldnt:
1. I need to look for a non-sorcery (usually brainstorm/dark ritual). LDV ing into dark ritual has won me alot of games, personal would not have done the job. LDV into brainstorm to get rid of dead cards in hand has won me games too.
2. Double tutoring- I use LDV to find a missing combo component + whatever I need to win- This is the main power of LDV. Against aggro I've used it to find combo piece, put it on top, followed by a land/mana source be 100% sure I win during the next turn. Personal tutor felt weak in comparison. Against blue, I look for a pile that has disruption/blue card for force + combo piece. This is especially relevant, going for thoughtseize into combo the following turn is retardedly broken.
I really really like LDV. I will stick to my 4 LDV, 2 Personal package. LDV is busted nuts by itself MD in addition to being superior post board.
This came to my mind: after LDV, preordain and serum can clean the trash from the top 5. Aren't these worth testing instead of Ponder or even BS?
EDIT: Hm... second thought, just ignore this statement, it's a top 5, not that 2 cards will help anyways ><
Preordain is probably similar to ponder, tho
Last edited by Gui; 11-11-2010 at 12:02 PM.
If you fail to explain the reason behind your choice, technically, it's the wrong choice.
Zerk Thread -- Really, fun deck! ^^Originally Posted by Tacosnape
Thats cool, any ideas are welcome. I've made some recent changes to the deck, but won't spoil it here, a friend may plan to play it in a big tourney. Want to keep the tech secret for now. Lol.
Why does it matter if Oozes Power becomes higher than 6? its not like he gains Devourers first ability, it only gains activated abilities. Oh, and I like the ay this deck is looking. Maybe some detailed matchups are in order?
Whenever a card refers to itself using its name, it means "this card". When Necrotic Ooze gains Devourer's ability, you are going to lose Ooze if you flip a card >3cc unless you flip again in response explicitly maintaining priority after each activation, you lower Ooze's power with Trike.
Its re-errataed to be part of the activated ability. So you sacrifice upon resolution of the ability. Since you RFG as part of the cost, you can respond to it and just continue, never letting the ability resolve if you hit something > 2 cc. I dunno about everyone else, but my list is pretty close to busted consistent. This deck wrecks non-blue while being pretty respectable vs blue. Post board with so much more protection coming in, it can put up a strong fight against even the heaviest blue control.
EDIT: Some rough observations after almost 500 goldfishes or so.
This is assuming on the play with 7 cards in hand. Numbers get better on the draw and worse if mulling.
Without protection
Combo off turn 2 about 15% of the time. Need to have a pretty damn Good hand. 60% of the time Turn 3, 25% turn 4. This is assuming on the play with 7 cards in hand. Numbers get better on the draw and worse if mulling.
With Protection. (With force/thoughtseize first)
25% of the time turn 3, 50% of the time turn 4, 25% of the time turn 5.
These are some pretty good stats IMO. Its reaching the realm of TES consistency and speed.
Last edited by ivanpei; 11-11-2010 at 02:29 AM.
I'm testing Jander's 58+2 fetchlands and the results are quite similar. Although a turn slower than the U/B/w ANT I'm playing, it's more resilient to countermagic, specifically spell snare/daze due to non-reliance with 2cc spells and 7-11 disruption slots with at least 9 accel. I also find it more consistent and sketchy hands just get better with mulling due to the redundancy that 7-8 tutors offer (>4 cantrips is also an option).
One of the reasons my list has 8 fetchlands is that with 4 basics it doesn't fold to Wasteland.dec and can completely ignore Stifle unlike Storm.
That oracle text is redundant.
Actually it's not. Without the clause in the ability, you could, for example, Fling the devourer before it self-destructed.
Good point rufus, I was wondering why they would re-erata such a jank card anyway. On another note, is no one else testing the 8 cantrip versions? Maybe I just have a preference for high consistency over speed.
@ Death: I'm running 8 fetches and 4 basics too. I can usually play around wasteland. I love it. This deck is much more resilient to wasteland and counterspells compared to TES/ANT, doomsday etc. Also you don't have to go "all in". If you're stuff gets countered, you don't lose, just look for another piece/tutor.
Hi there,
long time troller on this forum. I came across this deck right before my legacy nationals held last weekend and thought it was too late to switch decks right before the event so I took GWb survival and failed horribly :(. I came to the conclusion at the event that the best decks in legacy are decks that win now, like ANT or TES. I proxied and traded this deck during the event and after showing how it works to people at the event who have far more advanced knowledge of the format I felt that this is a deck for me.
Let me know what you think. I am really curious.
4 polluted delta
1 misty rainforest
2 marsh flats
2 underground sea
3 ancient tomb
3 island
1 swamp
1 necrotic ooze
1 triskelion
1 phyrexian devourer
1 iona, shield of emeria
4 buried alive
4 reanimate
3 exhume
4 force of will
4 pact of negation
4 brainstorm
4 lim dûl's vault
2 personal tutor
4 dark ritual
4 lotus petal
3 chrome mox
side:
4 show and tell
4 emrakul the aeons thorn
4 duress
3 thoughtseize
it plays a transformational sideboard that no opponent will see coming :) I have won on turn 1, 2, 3 and even after a mulligan to 4 on the draw. This was all done during goldfishing. I realize that a lot of decks do not have any answer to it game 1 and game 2 they will never see the show and tell plan coming. I feel this deck is nuts.
your comments?
slaydo
I prefer discard MD over pacts, but thats a personal preference, Being able to stop a turn 1 kitty/lackey or a counterbalance/ survival/TES from killing you is more versatile. I run just 6 reanimation because Ooze counts as the 7th reanimation spell. I don't see a need for Iona, I play narcamoeba in that slot. Iona can be a good SB show and tell target. I think ancient tombs are not required as you have so much acceleration already and you really want colored mana. I recommend the 5-8th cantrips for consistency. I prefer to have the most flexible, consistent and redundant combo deck.
My list has undergone some changes, but I prefer not to go public with it for now. Pm me for details.
@ivanpei: Think you run Aquamoeba, not Narcomoeba, unless you want to dredge!
Team Stimato
He told you a foil from Time Spiral was Summer?
This man must be a Jedi.
Ooops! Good catch! Cheers.
How do you remove a Pithing Needle that call Ooze?
I still do not expect any resistance g1 so bounce spells serve no function. In g2, a transformational sb bypasses Ooze hate. If you are referring to slaydo's list, I would suggest at least 1 bounce spell in his 75.
Eye of Nowhere or Wipe Away/Echoing Truth takes care of hate cards. If you play 4x Personal Tutors your choice should be the sorcery, and if you have 4 LDVs you could choose any bounce spell.
@ Death, yup transformational sideboard makes hate very tricky. Also, I'd like to add that I hate bounce in the 75. LDV-ing for a 1 off sucks, you should expect to lose a butt load of life. Also Personal tutor only fetches eye to nowhere or sorcery answers which suck. Your deck is mana intensive, so you want something instant so you can eot bounce, your turn combo. Say you are facing tormod's crypt and you have 3 lands + petal/ritual. You need 4 mana for buried + reanimate, now its 6 mana because of eye, which is hard to get. If it was echoing truth you can eot bounce, then go off. Basically, 1 off bounce sucks in Ooze combo. Go transformational.
yesterday, I won a 18 - person-tournament with this deck at JK entertainment store.
It was a lot of fun to play and very strong, but some games were even close.
Here is the list I played:
jens jaeger, Team N!īs ooze combo:
// Lands
2 [ZEN] Swamp (2)
2 [8E] Island (1)
3 [U] Underground Sea
4 [ON] Polluted Delta
2 [ON] Flooded Strand
1 [ON] Bloodstained Mire
// Creatures
1 [AL] Phyrexian Devourer
1 [TO] Putrid Imp
1 [AQ] Triskelion
1 [SCA] Necrotic Ooze
// Spells
3 [FUT] Pact of Negation
4 [LRW] Thoughtseize
1 [CHK] Eye of Nowhere
4 [MI] Dark Ritual
4 [MR] Chrome Mox
4 [PT] Personal Tutor
4 [AL] Force of Will
2 [US] Exhume
4 [TE] Reanimate
4 [MM] Brainstorm
4 [AL] Lim-Dul's Vault
4 [WL] Buried Alive
// Sideboard
SB: 4 [US] Show and Tell
SB: 4 [DS] Echoing Truth
SB: 3 [TSP] Wipe Away
SB: 4 [RIS] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
After a lot of goldfishing, I cut all of the lotus petals. why? In my eyes it is important to get fast two mana for vault, and then next turn 3 mana for buried alive. With petals, there was often a lack of a permanent mana. Sure, petal is faster, but less consistent, and this gets more important after sideboarding with show and tell.
Here a short report:
1. round: mono black
I was facing a deck with maindeck 4 extirpate and 4 faerie macabers....and duress, thoughtseize and hymn to tourach...first game my hand was discarded, buried alive extirpated and I conceced in response. He didnīt know what kind of deck I played.
I played a thoughtseize of my own, so I recocnized that he plays gatekeeper of malakir, so I decided not to board emrakuls.
second game he started again with duress and hymn, but was stuck at one land. I had four lands and reanimate + buried alive, but was afraid of extirpate. luckily, he drawed his second land, played confidant, had no mana free....I combo off and luckily he had no faerie macabre.
Third game he boarded 4 addidtional cards, leyline of the void as I guessed (this was right), and I hope that he boards out some gatekeepers...so I went for emrakul.
He starts with extirpate on my thoughtseize I played furst turn, no permanents on his hand.
second turn show and tell finished him off. he still had three gatekeepers of malakir in this game in his deck. lucky me.
1-0, 2:1
2. round: uw faerie landstill, with meddling mages, jotun grunt, cloud of faeries, aether vial, daze, force, spell snare...
first game I hardcast a triskelion off a rit, to kill his 3 faeries, and kill him a few turns later with the combo (trisk died blocking a grunt).
second game fourth turn show and tell into emrakul was enough. laugh at the 3 relics of progenitus he played.
He did know what kind of deck I played.
2-0, 4:1
3. round: white weenie
ethersworn canonist slowed me down a little bit, but little 2-power-men were not fast enought to kill me before I could combo off.
Second game fourth turn emrakul was enough. laughed again about the tormods crypts he had for my grave...
He didnīt know what kind of deck I played.
3-0, 6:1
4. me and a dredge player were the only ones who 3-0 ed, so we decided to draw, my opp score was far better than his.
in the fun games I killed him second turn with combo twice.
He didnīt know what kind of deck I played.
3-0-1, 6:1 (8:1)
so, finally I got a revised scrubland, the dredge player two fetchies.
the tranformational sideboard is great and important, I board nearly every game the whole 15 cards and the combo out.
also, the deck is not that well-known at this moment, so it could be a good metagame call because your opponents often doesnīt real know what to do.
I would replay the decklist just at it is, it worked very fine.
Nice job on the tournament Slayjay! Yeah, I think a main strength of the deck right now is that your opponent likely won't know how to or be able to deal with the combo, which definitely gives you a huge advantage.
Anyway, this is my current decklist:
1 Necrotic Ooze
1 Triskelion
1 Phyrexian Devourer
1 Aquamoeba
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
4 Buried Alive
4 Personal Tutor
2 Lim-Dul's Vault
4 Brainstorm
4 Reanimate
2 Exhume
3 Thoughtseize
4 Spell Pierce
4 Force of Will
1 Eye of Nowhere
3 Chrome Mox
4 Lotus Petal
4 Dark Ritual
2 Swamp
2 Island
2 Underground Sea
4 Polluted Delta
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Marsh Flats
Sideboard:
1 Blazing Archon
2 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Show and Tell
2 Lim-Dul's Vault
3 Wipe Away
3 Echoing Truth
I was debating on Spell Pierce vs. Dispel for protection. Dispel is obviously better in a counterwar, but I do like that Spell Pierce also deals with discard and problem artifact/enchantments.
Wow I just realized what Aquamoeba is used for. This is very smart, I feel dumb not to think about Ooze copying Moeba if you drew either Devourer or triskelion in hand so you just Buried Alive for the other creature + Moeba and win anyway with a reanimate! I like it and will test this up if I can get Entomb and SnT for cheap (doubt this will ever happen. Sigh $1 SnTs...)
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