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Thread: [DECK] The Engine (g/w)

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    [DECK] The Engine (g/w)

    THE ENGINE, a primer by Antares

    I'm sitting at a desk in the Study Hall of my University, bored to death of studying Neuropsychology... Yeah, it sure sounds cool but trust me, I can't get anymore boring than that.

    (I don't know if there is an existing deck based on the same priciples as this one but I'll give it a shot lol)

    Anyway, it seems like a nice reason to start writing a primer on this deck I've been imagining for quite a while. It hasn't been through the immense amount of testing other decks have but it seems like a correct approach to my local meta (which is crawling with Merfolk and VengevineSurvival.
    I thought that control strategies would be the way to go but as playing Blue automaticly means playing FoW as well as expensive duals (which I sadly do not own :'x), I decided to play a deck that would be built relying solely on cards I own.

    Well, the result of this idea: a White/Green deck, inspired by the strategy I played last extended season - tons of removal (both spot and mass), resistant creatures and a versatile toolkit to fight the meta.

    (as a side note, I loved the GW Death and Texas list played by the user Logralis but it was ultimately to expensive to built, especialy on my budget, so this list is partly inspired by that fact lol).

    On to the list it self:

    Lands: 24 - seemed like the correct number for the curve, the ideal to play avoiding to become screwed early game, since it is crucial to get at least 5 lands into play;

    1 Arid Mesa
    3 Marsh Flats
    2 Misty Rainforest
    3 Temple Garden
    1 Savannah
    1 Maze of Ith
    1 Miren, the Moaning Well
    4 Plains
    2 Forest
    2 Emeria, the Sky Ruin
    2 Godless Shrine
    2 Ghost Quarter

    Fetchlands- I'm not sure if playing 7 fetchlands is the right way to go but still, the decks needs a smoth color distribution so I'm sticking with this number for now.

    Temple Garden, Godless Shrine- a dual is always a dual, no matter the drawback so, these will have to be my Savannahs, Bayou and Scrubland as long as I can't find a replacement.

    Savannah- =D I'm a proud owner of one so I must take it for a spin whenever I can, right?

    Maze of Ith- the board presence of this land is incredible, just by sitting there it keeps a lot of annoying creatures at bay.

    Ghost Quarter- Wastelands are kind of expensive right now, right? lool

    Emeria, the Sky Ruin- the first part of the revival engine of the deck. It will keep returning threats, a chump blocker or any other utility card. Not tremendously solid, a sure Wasteland target but still seems like a nice choice to keep your side the board from losing gas.

    Miren, the Moaning Well- this is the second part of the lock. Helping you to stay ahead in life in the late game and getting good value out of your creatures when they return with Emeria.

    So the land engine consists on getting Emeria online as fast as possible and having Miren as a sacrifice outlet to help you recover from the pressure a lot of decks will, invariably put on you. But still, you don't necessarily need to force the engine to play smothly.


    Creatures: 20 - looks like the correct number considering the amout of mass removal spells you mainboard.

    4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
    3 Tarmogoyf
    1 Yosei, the Morning Star/Sun Titan
    4 Qasali Pridemage
    4 Kitchen Finks
    3 Eternal Witness
    1 Loxodon Hierach

    Sakura-Tribe Elder- this dude is our main accelerator and works as a chumpblocker, before and after having Emeria online.

    Tarmogoyf- 3 is all I got so I felt like they were auto include in this deck as they provide a threat and a board presence without comparison (I'm considerating KotR in its place but I still feel like KotR doesn't fit the deck quite as well. If any of you have suggestions, feel free to discuss).

    Yosei, the Morning Star/Sun Titan- I'm not sure which one to include but I know i definitely want to be playing one of them. Yosei is awsome in the Emeria engine, no question about that and it looks very solid; Sun Titan occurred to me because of its ability to return guys and working as a part of the Engine so I couldn't figure out which one is the way to go. (discuss, if you will)

    Qasali Pridemage- the best way to fight my meta: a 3/3 attacker for GW, while working as a Naturalize on a stick so it's kind of a auto include- kills Vial and Survival and that's good enough for me.

    Kitchen Finks- it speaks for it self as lifegain in a slow deck and the fact that Burn is well installed in my meta seem relevant points for me to focus on. The Engine benefits from it, also.

    Eternal Witness- Regrowth on a stick is awsome and being able to answer threats twice is awsome as well. The Engine obviously benefits from this.

    Loxodon Hierarch- gaining 4 life and a 4/4 body for 4 sounds nice, doesn't it? Engine Fodder, btw.

    Spells: 16 - these spells consist mostly of removal, removal and removal... oh and a bit of recurring spells!

    2 Wrath of God
    3 Day of Judgment
    4 Path to Exile/Swords to Plowshares
    2 Life from the Loam
    1 Crucible of Worls
    1 Rude Awakening
    2 Elspeth, Knight Errant
    1 Gideon Jura

    Wrath of God/Day of Judgment- good choices to deal with the meta, enormous game turners capable of quickly turning the odds in your favor. Mass removal is always welcome as the deck can play through it instead of around it.

    Path to Exile/ Swords to Plowshares- I chose PtE over StP because I have only one playset of StP which are currently loaned to a friend. But, ultimately, PtE can ramp you =D. Well, they are spot removal cards and the fastest answer to any creature threat your opponent may pose.

    Life from the Loam- it helps recurring lands which will have a wide variety of results, depending on which lands you choose to recurr (obvs. lol) and it can also support ramp to set the Engine ready. Dredging can also be relevant when you want to revive a creature you haven't played yet (did I make myself clear? lol)

    Crucible of Worlds- one of the Engine gears since it, like LfL can help ramp and can return key lands to play.

    Rude Awakening- besides creature beatdown, this is one alternative win-con that suits very well the lategame plan and it can be extremely devastating for decks that aren't prepared for extreme, massive, creature-land beatdown lol

    Elspeth, Knight-Errant- this dude plays around mass removal like a champ and hepls make sure you're never out of gas. Also helps beat down and its last effect is kinda cool, right?

    Gideon Jura- If Elpeth can play through WoG and DoJ, Gideon is the Wrath and the DoJ! Nice finisher and an interesting ability to destroy annoying creatures.

    Sideboard:

    About this part, I'm still thinking about the best options, considering the meta but any help is welcome!

    Well, for those of you who read the whole thing this far, congratulations! Feel free to discuss but bare in mind that these are all the resources I have avaliable at the moment, so it was the best I could come up with

    If by any chance this becomes a real archetype and a solid choice of a deck I'll be surprised since this deck is more for the hell of the fun that playing Legacy realy is.
    So until then, tell me what you think and discuss!

    Cheers,

    Tiago aka Antares

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    Re: [DECK] The Engine (g/w)

    I think KotR will fit extremely well, as it lets you find any of the lands you happen to need as well as usually being huge and gaining you a bunch of life with Miren.

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    Re: [DECK] The Engine (g/w)

    But my problem is the fact that I don't know what to cut to put it in.

    I said it wouldn't fit the deck too well because I played with it in my extended deck in the place of goyf for a couple of tournaments and it just wasn't that synergistic because of the number of 3 drops the deck had, the curve was too clutered... I think it would be best to fit both but that won't be easy lol

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    Re: [DECK] The Engine (g/w)

    Quote Originally Posted by antares View Post
    But my problem is the fact that I don't know what to cut to put it in.

    I said it wouldn't fit the deck too well because I played with it in my extended deck in the place of goyf for a couple of tournaments and it just wasn't that synergistic because of the number of 3 drops the deck had, the curve was too clutered... I think it would be best to fit both but that won't be easy lol
    I could easily see cutting an Eternal Witness and two Finks for Knights, which wouldn't affect your curve (and I see how synergistic these are, they simply don't win games on the spot though).

    Why is there Godless Shrine in the deck? I don't see any black. If you are leaving that there for a reason, then at least 2-3 of your wraths should be Pernicious Deed.

    Gideon seems really interesting in Legacy, but I don't think this is the deck for him - I think his +2 is useless against most aggro decks because by that time they already have 8 power on board and you are just time walking, or you are using him as a 6/6 creature which doesn't die to wrath, which could also be solved by playing Deeds over Wraths and using Baneslayer or Tombstalker or something.

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    Re: [DECK] The Engine (g/w)

    Quote Originally Posted by Scatterbrain View Post
    I could easily see cutting an Eternal Witness and two Finks for Knights, which wouldn't affect your curve (and I see how synergistic these are, they simply don't win games on the spot though).
    I guess I'll give it a shot, it doesn't seem like it would affect much but still I'd rather be cutting the Loxodon Hierarch over one Finks since they do basicly the same and due to the fact that Burn is a common matchup, I would rather be gaining life one turn sooner and applying pressure at the same time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scatterbrain View Post
    Why is there Godless Shrine in the deck? I don't see any black. If you are leaving that there for a reason, then at least 2-3 of your wraths should be Pernicious Deed.
    Well, I do not own Deed but the black form Godless Shrine was supposed to be for Extirpate and Diabolic Edict (possibly Maelstrom Pulse) on the Sideboard. I'm still figuring it out though

    Quote Originally Posted by Scatterbrain View Post
    Gideon seems really interesting in Legacy, but I don't think this is the deck for him - I think his +2 is useless against most aggro decks because by that time they already have 8 power on board and you are just time walking, or you are using him as a 6/6 creature which doesn't die to wrath, which could also be solved by playing Deeds over Wraths and using Baneslayer or Tombstalker or something.
    I agree with you on that, actually: I hadn't considered the fact that in turn 5 I would probably be dead against most decks... I don' have any Baneslayers though and I don't like Tombstalker enough to try to force it into this deck so I wonder what other card should I use to fill Gideon's spot. Should I cut Gideon instead of a Witness (for KotR), should I add another Elspeth or something or should I put Crime/Punishment (as the closest thing I have to a Deed) in the deck?

    I'll also looking forward to have this deck tested by someone other than me since the little time I have avaliable right now is being used for the benefit of my academic career lol

    Also, this is the first draft I made for the Sideboard:

    SIDEBOARD:

    2x Choke
    2x Leyline of Sanctity
    1x Circle of Protection: Red
    3x Extirpate
    1x Diabolic Edict
    1x Bojuka Bog (after being added KotR felt like it was auto include)
    2x Maelstrom Pulse
    3x Jötun Grunt

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    Re: [DECK] The Engine (g/w)

    Quote Originally Posted by antares View Post
    should I put Crime/Punishment (as the closest thing I have to a Deed) in the deck?
    Actually, that is not too bad of a plan, but the reason Deed is so good is because it will let you reset the WHOLE board, while leaving you either a large creature or planeswalker to battle with. This is why Elspeth and Jace are so great in Landstill.

    This list overall just seems like a Landstill/Rock hybrid, which sadly will be worse than either. If anyone wants to test this list, here is a non-budget limited version of it (UNTESTED):

    1 Arid Mesa
    3 Marsh Flats
    2 Misty Rainforest
    4 Savannah
    1 Maze of Ith
    1 Miren, the Moaning Well
    2 Plains
    1 Forest
    2 Emeria, the Sky Ruin
    2 Scrubland
    4 Wasteland

    4 Mox Diamond

    3 Sakura-Tribe Elder
    4 Tarmogoyf
    1 Sun Titan
    3 Qasali Pridemage
    3 Kitchen Finks
    2 Eternal Witness
    3 Knight of the Reliquary

    2 Wrath of God
    3 Pernicious Deed
    1 Maelstrom Pulse
    3 Swords to Plowshares
    2 Life from the Loam
    1 Crucible of Worlds
    2 Elspeth, Knight Errant

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    Re: [DECK] The Engine (g/w)

    So you have to have every plains or dual in your deck in play to justify the inclusion of Emeria, seems like a rather large improbability. Why not just a Karakas or perhaps 2x flagstones ?

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    Re: [DECK] The Engine (g/w)

    Quote Originally Posted by Scatterbrain View Post
    Actually, that is not too bad of a plan, but the reason Deed is so good is because it will let you reset the WHOLE board, while leaving you either a large creature or planeswalker to battle with. This is why Elspeth and Jace are so great in Landstill.

    This list overall just seems like a Landstill/Rock hybrid, which sadly will be worse than either. If anyone wants to test this list, here is a non-budget limited version of it (UNTESTED):

    1 Arid Mesa
    3 Marsh Flats
    2 Misty Rainforest
    4 Savannah
    1 Maze of Ith
    1 Miren, the Moaning Well
    2 Plains
    1 Forest
    2 Emeria, the Sky Ruin
    2 Scrubland
    4 Wasteland

    4 Mox Diamond

    3 Sakura-Tribe Elder
    4 Tarmogoyf
    1 Sun Titan
    3 Qasali Pridemage
    3 Kitchen Finks
    2 Eternal Witness
    3 Knight of the Reliquary

    2 Wrath of God
    3 Pernicious Deed
    1 Maelstrom Pulse
    3 Swords to Plowshares
    2 Life from the Loam
    1 Crucible of Worlds
    2 Elspeth, Knight Errant
    While I do like the list the budget is to far of from my possiblities for me to build it. In theory it looks great but the thing is: I wanted to keeo the deck WG but I just couldn't find cards with enough quality to fit the strategy so I turned to B since Maelstrom Pulse and Crime/Punishment (my Deed lol) are good enough to be played in this strategy.

    I understand the purpose of Mox Diamond and I like it but I don't love it since as the purpose of the deck is to build up the land count, sometimes it would just be to costly to lose a land to accelerate early-game. (I'm no noob lol I know how freakin awsome Diamond is lol)

    As to being a Landstill/Rock hybrid, that was exactly what I wanted to avoid lol

    1 Arid Mesa
    3 Marsh Flats
    2 Verdant Catacombs
    1 Savannah
    3 Temple Garde
    1 Maze of Ith
    1 Miren, the Moaning Well
    3 Plains
    2 Forest
    2 Emeria, the Sky Ruin
    2 Godless Shrine
    3 Ghost Quarter
    (24)

    4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
    3 Tarmogoyf
    1 Sun Titan
    3 Qasali Pridemage
    3 Kitchen Finks
    2 Eternal Witness
    3 Knight of the Reliquary
    (19)

    2 Wrath of God
    1 Crime/Punishment
    2 Day of Judgment
    2 Maelstrom Pulse
    3 Path to Exile
    1 Swords to Plowshares
    2 Life from the Loam
    1 Crucible of Worlds
    1 Rude Awakening
    2 Elspeth, Knight Errant
    (17)

    - I made a few changes to it like replacing the 2 Misty Rainforest with 2 Verdant Catacombs as well as a few changes in creatures and spells;
    - I have a spare StP so I replaced a PtE with it given the fact that StP is superior;
    - KotR is really to good to ignore so it wins a spot;
    - I would still like to test with Rude Awakening because I feel it can win most games out of nowhere- your opponent may have FoW but he won't -have a counter avaliable all the time, everytime;
    - Maelstrom Pulse is maindeck now because of its versatility and for being a response to most threats your opponent may drop;
    - Crime Punishment works as all round mass removal and it takes a spot main deck until I get Deed!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jodahae View Post
    So you have to have every plains or dual in your deck in play to justify the inclusion of Emeria, seems like a rather large improbability. Why not just a Karakas or perhaps 2x flagstones ?
    It is not a large improbability if you take a good look at it: the purpose of the deck is to ramp you to Emeria + 7 plains while keeping your opponents board shut down- that is why the list has so much removal and Elspeth to seal the deal. Given that, the basic principle of the deck is to assemble the Engine and the drop/recover the creature resources you have left or the creatures you killed during the process. Besides I don't have neither of those lol

    I honestly think this strategy should get a shot at Legacy given the fact that the list is build to work around disruption and if Lands can win games, why can't this one too? (silly comparison but I Lands takes even more time to build up than this deck, imo)

    Thx for the help!

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    Re: [DECK] The Engine (g/w)

    that mass of 1 and 2-ofs makes my eyes bleed.
    Quote Originally Posted by TsumiBand View Post
    ... It feels like a bummer to spend so much time not talking about the game and more time arguing over whether Dega or Mardu is the better name for a three color deck you'll never see in Legacy.

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    Re: [DECK] The Engine (g/w)

    Quote Originally Posted by Pastorofmuppets View Post
    that mass of 1 and 2-ofs makes my eyes bleed.

    Why is that? ^^
    Its not like the deck is unplayable lol

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    Re: [DECK] The Engine (g/w)

    *Casual player speaking*

    I think your engine is interesting but you could devote more slots to it.
    Having only 7 plains for Emeria and 5 basics for recurring SakuraTE is limiting.


    Since you have Loam/Crucible, is there any reason not to run some of the following :
    Secluded Steppe
    Tranquil Thicket
    Horizon Canopy
    Canopy + Knight of the R + Crucible seems cool.


    Have you considered running Garruk Wildspeaker instead of a few sweepers ? 7 sweep effects sounds like a lot.

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    Re: [DECK] The Engine (g/w)

    Quote Originally Posted by Dormant Seer View Post
    *Casual player speaking*

    I think your engine is interesting but you could devote more slots to it.
    Having only 7 plains for Emeria and 5 basics for recurring SakuraTE is limiting.
    Well, that's my bad, I'm afraid. When I rebuilt the mana base considering Scatterbrain's thoughts on the list but this is how it was originaly:

    1 Arid Mesa
    3 Marsh Flats
    2 Misty Rainforest
    3 Temple Garden
    1 Savannah
    1 Maze of Ith
    1 Miren, the Moaning Well
    4 Plains
    2 Forest
    2 Emeria, the Sky Ruin
    2 Godless Shrine
    2 Ghost Quarter


    So here we have 10 plains and 6 basics for SakuraTE so it doesn't seem too bad lol

    Quote Originally Posted by Dormant Seer View Post
    Since you have Loam/Crucible, is there any reason not to run some of the following :
    Secluded Steppe
    Tranquil Thicket
    Horizon Canopy
    Canopy + Knight of the R + Crucible seems cool.
    I don't see how I could fit that Loam/cycling "thing" in the deck because I can't see how they benefit the strategy (seriously, please explain lol). I love Crucible because of its awsome ability to wreck any manabase with Ghost Quarter since it can also destroy basic lands lol

    Quote Originally Posted by Dormant Seer View Post
    Have you considered running Garruk Wildspeaker instead of a few sweepers ? 7 sweep effects sounds like a lot.
    I chose to run 7 sweepers because of my metagame. If in a 45-man tournament, Merfolks takes 11 spots (that's almost 25% of the field) and Survival (Retainers and Vengevine variants) shows up in respectable number, I thinks it is correct to go with more mass removal than just a little =P
    (I also can't see how Garruk would be useful in the strategy, please explain lol is it because of the token generating ability?)

    Btw, I finally got a Deed from a friend of mine! (Yay!!) So the spell list is now as it follows:


    2 Wrath of God
    1 Pernicious Deed
    2 Day of Judgment
    2 Maelstrom Pulse
    3 Path to Exile
    1 Swords to Plowshares
    2 Life from the Loam
    1 Crucible of Worlds
    1 Rude Awakening
    2 Elspeth, Knight Errant

    Cheers!

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    Re: [DECK] The Engine (g/w)

    Hi,

    You're right to ask for more reasons to run those cards, Antares :)
    I'll mention again I'm a casual player, so I don't have a very enlightened opinion and I'm probably biased regarding lots of stuff.

    Anyways, I'm willing to explain my reasonning :

    1) Cycling lands // Horizon canopy.
    This kind of control deck, I would tend to build UWG so as to have card selection/draw capabilities.
    Selection/draw cards would often take slots otherwise devoted to answers and I can see how one may be reluctant to dilute a control deck in such a way. Having a high density of bombs doesn't seem bad by any means.
    OTOH selection/draw allows to pack a deck with more specialized answers, assuming one will be able to choose, to some extent, which is more appropriate to a given situation.
    Drawing is never bad, is it ? It isn't a matter of whether a strategy is fit to draw or not. Rather whether a deck can afford the draw slots or not.

    Conveniently enough, those lands are tutorable via Knight of the reliquary. With Loam and Crucible, there is an additionnal incentive to run utility lands.

    What are the opportunity costs ?
    - Horizon Canopy : mainly the land drop. It is very cheap to use with Crucible of worlds but is contradictory with the objective to get Emeria + 7 lands in play. Without Emeria, Canopy could be used almost every turn once you have 5 lands.
    - Cycling lands : high mana requirements (Loam) + fills your graveyard (dredge). The latter is both convenient and unconvenient. That gives info to the opponent, but also gives targets for Emeria and Sun Titan. Both of those cards are endgame, though.

    I think it is obvious Horizon Canopy and the cycling lands do not ask for the same support cards / play the same.
    Canopy + Crucible seems far better to me, precisely because it requires very little support + is most economical.
    Loam is more potent but if one really wants to take advantage of it, it requires a lot of slots. Is it truly needed to distract so many resources for it ? Thinking casual, I'd be tempted to run a Life from the Loam + Spellweaver Helix + random sorcery combo, say Maelstrom Pulse or any dedicated bomb (Rude Awakening, Feudkiller's Verdict, Grizzly Fate, any "Time Walk" etc. There must be some more recent ones). This requires 4 Loam, though, and makes you "vulnerable" to graveyard hate.

    2) Garruck...

    ... Is immune to your sweepers
    ... Generates 3/3 tokens after a WoG.
    ... Accelerates your mana a LOT. It makes it easier to reccur stuff via Sun Titan rather than with Emeria. But you'd probably need an additional Sun Titan or two to make this relevant.
    ... 's 3rd ability may be more situationnal, but given you run around 20 creatures, an Overrun effect may win a few games.

    I hope that makes sense and isn't an utter testimony of casual idiocy,
    Greetings,
    DS.
    Last edited by Dormant Seer; 11-07-2010 at 12:18 PM.
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    Re: [DECK] The Engine (g/w)

    @Dormant Seer

    Can you please describe how would you work out the mana base in order to run the Loam engine? I like the idea of drawing more cards and "filter" the draws somewhat.

    Cheers

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    Re: [DECK] The Engine (g/w)

    Unfortunately, I did not try Life from the Loam, yet.

    I MWSed a list with Horizon Canopy, though (goldfished it twice, bear with me ^^). 61 cards :

    Lands (25) :
    2 Forest
    3 Plains
    1 Swamp
    4 Savannah
    1 Bayou
    1 Scrubland
    3 Windswept Heath
    1 Marsh Flats
    2 Verdant Catacombs
    3 Wasteland
    2 Horizon Canopy
    1 Emeria, the Sky Ruin
    1 Maze of Ith

    1CC (5 permanents + 4 instants)
    1 Sensei's Divining Top
    4 Mother of Runes
    4 Swords to Plowshare

    2CC (10 permanents)
    4 Tarmogoyf
    3 Sakura-Tribe Elder
    3 Qasali Pridemage

    3CC (8 permanents + 3 sorceries)
    3 Knight of the Reliquary
    3 Pernicious Deed
    3 Maelstrom Pulse
    2 Crucible of Worlds

    4CC (4 permanents)
    2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
    2 Garruk Wildspeaker

    6CC (2 permanents)
    2 Sun Titan

    The creature base is changed and Rude Awakening somehow disappeared, although I understand how it is a cool card to fit in here.
    Not sure how useful this list will be to you, but...
    Last edited by Dormant Seer; 11-08-2010 at 07:49 AM. Reason: Fit some forgotten stuff...
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    Re: [DECK] The Engine (g/w)

    I like the list, I do but I can't help but think that it is much more aggro oriented. It's fine but in my meta, I'd go for a control list. You are also focusing the Engine to a lesser extent that what It is "supposed" to.

    Thanks for the knowledge you shared though! Btw, if you do further testing, can you tell me how it went?

    Also, if you guys could test this list, it would be much appreciated since right now I have absolutly no time to ensure if this build is competitive or not...

    Cheers

  17. #17

    Re: [DECK] The Engine (g/w)

    I have a GWu loam control deck which shares some similarities, I mainly play blue for Gifts Ungiven (no FoW, but I do play trickbind in SB).
    Gifts enables me to play only one life from the loam, one genesis, one gigapede and something thats been very useful is my one worm harvest.

    I've surprised at how well the worm harvest has done in the list and would encourage you to test it, don't know if it would be as effective in this deck but give a try.

    I do play a cycle land draw engine which might be part of the reason though.
    For all your magic singles and just an all round cool magic site click on this link

  18. #18
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    Re: [DECK] The Engine (g/w)

    @ Blackmagic

    About Gifts Ungiven: I know how great that card is and I always loved to play it. In my extended deck, I splashed blue exclusively for it and it felt great lol Lots of choices, lots of ways to recover your "losses". And it also allows the deck to have more answers.[ Wow, why wasn't I playing this card?]

    About the land cycle engine: can you show me the list so I can understand how it would fit in this deck? PM, perhaps?

    Thx for the help
    (haven't been able to test much :c)

  19. #19
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    Re: [DECK] The Engine (g/w)

    ghost quarter is really bad

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