[Article]: In the Lab - Legacy Transformers

[android]

A couple cards that might be considered:

Reshape
Artificer's Intuition

Reshape might be a bit weak due to Sorcery speed but it does offer the versatility of fetching a wider variety of cc. And again, in it's defense, for 3 mana, it does the same thing as Trinket Mage but it puts the artifact into play. You can argue about what happens if it gets countered or that you can't play X cost artifacts like you can with TM tutors, etc. I've seen these cards in for TM as you don't really care about the body and in AI's case, it's at least repeatable.

[piZZero]

A couple cards that might be considered:

Reshape
Artificer's Intuition

Reshape might be a bit weak due to Sorcery speed but it does offer the versatility of fetching a wider variety of cc. And again, in it's defense, for 3 mana, it does the same thing as Trinket Mage but it puts the artifact into play. You can argue about what happens if it gets countered or that you can't play X cost artifacts like you can with TM tutors, etc. I've seen these cards in for TM as you don't really care about the body and in AI's case, it's at least repeatable.

You do really care about the body, as trinket mage is an excellent blocker that might save you 1-2 turns sometimes. His body also provides an alternative way of winning. It happens rarely, but I can assure you I've won more than one game beating down with the 2/2's and the 1/3's.

[android]

You do really care about the body, as trinket mage is an excellent blocker that might save you 1-2 turns sometimes. His body also provides an alternative way of winning. It happens rarely, but I can assure you I've won more than one game beating down with the 2/2's and the 1/3's.

Yes, I've won with Trinket Mage before and I suppose that is his saving grace otherwise we would all be playing Fabricate (ha, or not). Reshape either loses you an artifact in play or can't be cast for lack of an artifact (not likely to happen with this deck) but if you're going to win the turn it resolves, that shouldn't matter. So there's certainly a trade-off there.

Artificer's Intuition is Survival for artifacts with a significant drawback (1 or less). So vs. Trinket Mage, you have a breakdown of;

Repeatability -> advantage AI
Body -> advantage TM (fog, bear, whatever)
Card Advantage -> advantage TM
Creature vs Enchantment -> draw, maybe slight advantage to TM in Survival meta
Cost -> draw

Not sure how often you need to tutor more than once but I get the impression that this deck isn't really going to want to stick around and duke it out with a dedicated aggro deck (is that advantage TM or AI?). Mini beatdown plan would not even be in the playbook if I were piloting this deck but this is Legacy so strange things can happen. I'll put the deck together and get a feel for whether I'd rather try the blind rush to combo or if I feel comfortable slow rolling it.

I trust that your experience with the deck makes you the expert so I'm just tossing in ideas you may have already considered and discarded. I like the general strategy and it's close to the type of decks I prefer to play (semi-stable combo decks with utility). I don't really like to win over several turns, rather all at once.

[Rico Suave]

To me it seems like a terrible topdeck when you'll likely have 1/2 of your combo already in play/hand. This deck works similar to the (Vintage) Steel City Vault, where you throw bomb after bomb and if you run out of gas, then you draw7. Here you have plenty of bombs, and if you run out of gas you play a sick amount of tutors that will ensure you find more bombs. That's my theory behind the decission.

I'm sure some guys have already tested the deck, and I'd like to know their feelings about the FoW matter. Personally I never felt the need for them, and even though I've got 1,2 or more bombs countered, I've managed to win the game.

That deck also has Force of Will.

Your reason to not include Force is because it's...a terrible topdeck? Then why does every other blue deck in the format run a full 4 copies of it? Because they can afford bad topdecks? I'm confused.

[dahcmai]

I tried the list out today verbatim and I can see why he doesn't want Force. You really never seem to want it aside from Combo matches, though I think it's going to end up being a necessary evil. You can't afford to have some commonly played things hit the table even if you can get rid of them multiple times. I ended up taking out the Champions for them and felt a little comfortable doing so. It did help a lot with GW survival and the multiple pridemages. My largest whine about doing that is not having the largest target for transmute in.

I like the Meekstone in this a lot. Truly inventive card to fetch up. It was well worth it's slot. i would like a better way to get Academy ruins though. I think a single or 2 Tolaria Wests might be in order. At worst it gets Moxes, Synods, and EE so it's not too bad. I'll try 1 for a starter. I figure it will stay at that number, but I will try 2 if it works out well.

Artificer's Intuition might be worth it if you play Humility instead of Meekstone as creature control. It slows most creature decks to a crawl if you slam it down fast enough. Humility also allows a Painter's servant to still work. Layer 5 is where painter is and Humility is layer 6&7 so it trumps it if you were wondering. Intuition would have to replace Trinket Mage if you go this route and that really sucks so it's probably not worth going in that direction, but it's a thought. E Tutor does bring it up which is nice.

Goblin Welder is a serious thought. You already are serious wasteland bait so why not go the whole route and add red. He seems pretty silly. At the very worst he takes some heat off the servant for bolts and swords. I'd add a singleton Sundering titan at that point. Transmute my mox, geddon you. Oh is synod not an island? How bout that.

[piZZero]

@Rico Suave: Vintage is a total different style than Legacy. In Vintage you can't affort not running FoWs unless you either lock your opponent in turn 1-2 (MUD) or win consistently on turn 2 (DREDGE). When MUD runs out of gas, what does the deck do? Topdeck. If topdecks are bombs, MUD chances to win increase notably, and obviously MUD would never like to see a card like a Force of Will in this deck (independently of the card color requirements, etc...). DREDGE works different though, as its engine is recursive and self feeds by dredging the same dredgers again and again. Both MUD and DREDGE are aware that an opponent FoW can ruin their early game and to stop that they don't pack FoWs, right? They just need to keep putting preasure by throwing more bombs or speeding up their clock.

Steel City Vault runs Force of Will because it can't afford losing turn 1/2 VS Vault Key, Multiple Spheres, etc... Vintage is a much more complex format than Legacy. We all love the sentence "Vintage is the format where broken things happen". That sentence resumes a bit the essence of the format and explains why most of the decks need FoW.

On the other hand, Legacy is a total different format and really predictable. With transformers you can expect a turn 1 Daze, turn 2 Counterbalance and a Force of Will, and still win without much troubles. Why? Because the guy that plays all that hate will probably NEVER kill you in a short amount of turns. The deck runs so much gas in form of combo pieces, tutors and enablers (BS & Thoughtcast) that it doesn't really care about your opponent counterwall. You have triple the amount of bombs than he's got counters, so, all you wanna do is find them and be able to play them (that's why we play lot of Moxen, monoliths, etc...).

As dahcmai mentioned: You really never seem to want it aside from Combo matches. And why is that? Because ANT/TES/(Belcher) is probably the only deck in the format that could consistently kill you before you do. No other deck in the format presents a thread to Transformers that couldn't be addressed with the solutions that we've packed in.

I hope my answered helped understand why I don't like FoW in this deck and why Transformers performs that well and is such a thread for the other decks in Legacy.

[Rico Suave]

You talk about having enablers and tutors and gas and business. You act as if you are going to overwhelm a counterwall with sheer numbers. I understand this and in many instances I enjoy this approach. But not here. Let me explain.

Most blue decks are not sitting behind a wall of counterspells, they are sitting behind Counter/Top. In these instances, does it matter that you have a Grindstone, E.Tutor, and Brainstorm? No, because you are still not going to get that Grindstone into play. In a sense, a resolved CB/Top is very close to GG for this deck. Force allows you to fight over the CB and prevent it from entering play.

The strategy focuses on the goal so much that is has become narrow, and what I mean is that you have a lot of tutoring to find the Painter/Stone combo but this leaves the strategy susceptible to unanticipated defenses. You may be able to overwhelm 2 counters, but what do you do about a single counter backing a Pithing Needle naming Grindstone? Now the fight is no longer about your cards but it is instead about your opponent's cards. All the Transmute Artifacts and Grindstones in the world won't save you from that Needle, but a Force would.

And of course there are some decks that are just faster and your only defense is a prayer.

These are all examples of the same thing: sometimes you have to deal with your opponent's cards even if they're not directly killing you. And a single EE is woefully inadequate.

[piZZero]

The Pithing needle case was brought into discussion yesterday by some mates too, and we agreed that in the end it's not that big of a thread as you can recursively get rid of it via EE and Academy Ruins. Testing prove we were right cause the deck is capable to overcome that maindeck needle with no troubles. You also have to think that, it's lot easier for us to find the answer to a Pithing Needle (or any other thread) than for them to actually get it.

One of the issues we've found that the deck needs to address is that sometimes it could be hard to find the Ruins, so, we are thinking of adding 1-2 Tolaria West to see how they work. IF, you can't get rid of that Pithing needle, you shouldn't worry that much, seriously. I don't think the trade you are making here is worth adding the Fows, I mean, when you pitch a "Brainstorm/Transmute Artifact/Thoughtcast/Trinket Mage" to FoW, you are pitching cards that are (or potentially can be) giving the answer to that Pithing Needle. So, we agreed that, depending on the situation and the gas that still remains on your hand it's good to get rid of the needle, but sometimes you just start setting up your plan B. Current version of the deck plays 3 Tezzeret main deck which provide such a good alternative way to win.

The CB case is addressed the exact same way. If the situation allows you to solve the problem -> Trinket Mage for EE, and cast EE for 2 paying 4-5 mana (which you usually can), then go for it. Else, play around it the best way you can and start setting up the plan B while you secure the board before (start getting Bridge, etc...). The sideboard usually provides answers to that kind of matchups and should always focus on those pairings (like CounterTop) that present more troubles. I'm currently playing Seal of Cleansing due to its inmunity to Null Rod, but a fetchable Dispeller's Capsule could also be a great addition to the Transmute Artifact Kit :)

Anyways, I totally understand your concerns about the fact that the deck runs no Fows but, you need to play it a bit the deck to understand that they aren't excellent in this build (notice I said "In this deck", FoW is probably one of the best cards of all times), the same way it's not excellent in MUD/Dredge/Belcher/etc... Not because you are playing blue means you have to play FoWs.

[dahcmai]

If you really stop and think about it, Etched Champion is actually a decent answer to counterbalance. It's 3 mana, comes down really fast, and doesn't die to much of anything from a CB deck. Only the BUG Landstill can kill it with any regularity. Amusing as hell if you think about it. They don't run wrath too often. Dumping a Dreadnought from a Dreadstill deck is the best answer? Funny. Though the sword thopter versions can probably keep up with not much problem. Stupid lifegain.

I think I am going to put the Forces in the board alongside some Ethersworns for storm and belcher. EC isn't all that bad. It looks like crap on paper, I will admit that. It just sticks out like a sore thumb and says "this is crap, pull me" and then you play it and realize how handy it can be. It's really funny.

Anyway, tournament day today so I'll write more when I get home.

[Rico Suave]

If you really stop and think about it, Etched Champion is actually a decent answer to counterbalance. It's 3 mana, comes down really fast, and doesn't die to much of anything from a CB deck. Only the BUG Landstill can kill it with any regularity. Amusing as hell if you think about it. They don't run wrath too often. Dumping a Dreadnought from a Dreadstill deck is the best answer? Funny. Though the sword thopter versions can probably keep up with not much problem. Stupid lifegain.

I think I am going to put the Forces in the board alongside some Ethersworns for storm and belcher. EC isn't all that bad. It looks like crap on paper, I will admit that. It just sticks out like a sore thumb and says "this is crap, pull me" and then you play it and realize how handy it can be. It's really funny.

Anyway, tournament day today so I'll write more when I get home.

Etched Champion was a non-factor in my games. Mishra's Factory held it at bay with ease.

The Pithing needle case was brought into discussion yesterday by some mates too, and we agreed that in the end it's not that big of a thread as you can recursively get rid of it via EE and Academy Ruins. Testing prove we were right cause the deck is capable to overcome that maindeck needle with no troubles. You also have to think that, it's lot easier for us to find the answer to a Pithing Needle (or any other thread) than for them to actually get it.

One of the issues we've found that the deck needs to address is that sometimes it could be hard to find the Ruins, so, we are thinking of adding 1-2 Tolaria West to see how they work. IF, you can't get rid of that Pithing needle, you shouldn't worry that much, seriously. I don't think the trade you are making here is worth adding the Fows, I mean, when you pitch a "Brainstorm/Transmute Artifact/Thoughtcast/Trinket Mage" to FoW, you are pitching cards that are (or potentially can be) giving the answer to that Pithing Needle. So, we agreed that, depending on the situation and the gas that still remains on your hand it's good to get rid of the needle, but sometimes you just start setting up your plan B. Current version of the deck plays 3 Tezzeret main deck which provide such a good alternative way to win.

The CB case is addressed the exact same way. If the situation allows you to solve the problem -> Trinket Mage for EE, and cast EE for 2 paying 4-5 mana (which you usually can), then go for it. Else, play around it the best way you can and start setting up the plan B while you secure the board before (start getting Bridge, etc...). The sideboard usually provides answers to that kind of matchups and should always focus on those pairings (like CounterTop) that present more troubles. I'm currently playing Seal of Cleansing due to its inmunity to Null Rod, but a fetchable Dispeller's Capsule could also be a great addition to the Transmute Artifact Kit :)

Anyways, I totally understand your concerns about the fact that the deck runs no Fows but, you need to play it a bit the deck to understand that they aren't excellent in this build (notice I said "In this deck", FoW is probably one of the best cards of all times), the same way it's not excellent in MUD/Dredge/Belcher/etc... Not because you are playing blue means you have to play FoWs.

It's not even just about Pithing Needle. If your opponent can do *anything* meaningful, you will want to stop it. If your opponent is half decent and includes cards that can force interaction with you, it is to your benefit to play Force of Will.

If Force of Will isn't good, your opponents are not casting spells. And then who cares what cards you are playing?

But I'm done arguing. Arguing for someone to play Force of Will in their blue deck is like trying to convince people the sky is blue. If they don't believe me, they aren't going to start believing me anytime soon.

[Sigar]

Wow, that's really narrowminded logic!

[dahcmai]

Well, either way, this has definitely spawned a new deck idea for me. Not much like the original, but I really love how Transmute works now. Definitely an improvement to it. I hadn't noticed how much of a difference the new wording makes.

Oh and CB? Not much of a problem at least it wasn't for me. EE does do the trick when you can recur it. Add the tolaria west. You will thank me later for that one. I kind of want a Crucible now. The deck doesn't like mass LD much and it's a sitting duck for it with all the non-basics.

[Michael Keller]

I've actually been working on my own variation of a Transmute Artifact-based deck. I'll be running it at Star City Games' Open Invitational in Richmond. The card has a great deal of untapped potential. It has been running very smoothly.

One issue I've noticed with the card is that it requires a powerful assortment of supporting cards to uphold the way it plays so it doesn't collapse under the weight of a single card (Transmute Artifact).

Transmuting into Sphinx of the Steel Wind has been, well, pretty damn good.

But I am not a fan of the OP's list; I just personally feel a more aggressive direction really abuses the cards potential. Searching for combo pieces is fine and it works, but at Sorcery speed, it is hard enough to setup a combo element and protect Transmute while having to activate subsequently. I noticed how dead-set the OP's list was on certain cards in the article (like Etched Champion), only to completely change perspective shortly thereafter. What direction you decide to go in ultimately decides the effectiveness of Transmute Artifact. It's not a bad list, but this card has had such a suggestive past of unproven success that with the new wording, it can hopefully do some serious damage.

[samurai_socks]

Thanks for posting this article if for no other reason than I am glad to have read something that was not about Survival.

-Cheers-

[Amon Amarth]

I've read the new oracle text; what is the difference? I can't tell?. Isn't it functionally the same.

[godryk]

Thanks for posting this article if for no other reason than I am glad to have read something that was not about Survival.

-Cheers-

Greatest QFT ever.

[Gheizen64]

I've read the new oracle text; what is the difference? I can't tell?. Isn't it functionally the same.

They don't 2-for-1 you with a counterspell, the artifact is sacrificed on resolution instead of being an additional cost as before.

[piZZero]

Thanks to everyone for the good feedback that the article and the deck has received.

What's surprising me the most these days is that a lot of people on Cockatrice is actually playing the deck and you can tell they are really loving it. The deck wins and people do like to win, so, I'm happy about this little contribution to the format. I'm not a great deck designer but I do like to tinker with ideas, and that's why we have the "In the lab" series of articles. Magic needs innovation in order to get fresh meat in to the formats, else everything is just an evolution of current decks that adapt the new staples that are being printed.

I'm currently thinking on making a second part of the Transformers article to gather all these cool ideas people has brought into this topic. More versions, more cards, FoW VS No FoW debate, etc... What would you like to read in the follow up article? Maybe a tournament report? Videos of the deck in action? (I can record myself playing on Cockatrice). Is anyone planning on going to the SCG tournament with Transformers? Have you tested the deck lately? What are your feelings? How does your decklist look like?

Thanks in advance!

[Amon Amarth]

They don't 2-for-1 you with a counterspell, the artifact is sacrificed on resolution instead of being an additional cost as before.

Ahh cool. There is so much text it boggles my simple little mind :P

[Michael Keller]

Thanks to everyone for the good feedback that the article and the deck has received.

What's surprising me the most these days is that a lot of people on Cockatrice is actually playing the deck and you can tell they are really loving it. The deck wins and people do like to win, so, I'm happy about this little contribution to the format. I'm not a great deck designer but I do like to tinker with ideas, and that's why we have the "In the lab" series of articles. Magic needs innovation in order to get fresh meat in to the formats, else everything is just an evolution of current decks that adapt the new staples that are being printed.

I'm currently thinking on making a second part of the Transformers article to gather all these cool ideas people has brought into this topic. More versions, more cards, FoW VS No FoW debate, etc... What would you like to read in the follow up article? Maybe a tournament report? Videos of the deck in action? (I can record myself playing on Cockatrice). Is anyone planning on going to the SCG tournament with Transformers? Have you tested the deck lately? What are your feelings? How does your decklist look like?

Thanks in advance!

I will be attending Star City's Invitational in Richmond with my own version of a Transmute Artifact-based deck. It does not run Force of Will and I have been testing the deck for close to a month now. My list (at the moment) is relatively tight, and I have been trying to exploit Transmute Artifact's weaknesses against the deck's worst match-ups to try and get a better understanding of what cards work best in the most dire of circumstances.

My list (currently) looks something like this after a month of testing:

[4x] Transmute Artifact
[4x] Thirst for Knowledge
[4x] Swords to Plowshares

[4x] Metalworker
[4x] Goblin Welder
[1x] Platinum Emperion
[1x] Platinum Angel
[1x] Sundering Titan
[1x] Sphinx of the Steel Wind
[1x] Wurmcoil Engine

[4x] Grim Monolith
[3x] Lightning Greaves
[2x] Mox Diamond
[1x] Sword of Light and Shadow
[1x] Gilded Lotus
[1x] Ensnaring Bridge
[1x] Pithing Needle

[4x] Seat of the Synod
[4x] Ancient Den
[4x] Ancient Tomb
[4x] Glimmervoid
[4x] Great Furnace
[1x] Darksteel Citadel
[1x] Island

//Sideboard
[3x] Trinisphere
[3x] Peacekeeper
[3x] Ghostly Prison
[2x] Ethersworn Canonist
[1x] Ratchet Bomb
[1x] Pithing Needle
[1x] Tormod's Crypt
[1x] Tsabo's Web

So far, it has run rather efficiently. I'm still in the testing process but this is very close to the list I will be playing at the Invitational. I rarely like posting lists before playing in tournaments of any sort, but this is an archetype on the rise and I thought I'd share my own two cents.