These lists play a max of 16 creatures. How do you think this is going to work? In the top 6 cards there'll be an average of roughly 1,5 creature. And I'm not even starting on the opportunity cost.
Collected Company just isn't a Legacy card.
It also doesn't seem half bad against a Delver, or at chump blocking a Goyf. And it can make you race with evasive beaters out of nowhere.
I played in a local weekly yesterday, 9 players, and went undefeated. They let anyone enter with any deck so I do run into new kids occasionally.
R1- mono-red newb deck, 80+ cards no sideboard. I goldfished for 2 wins and under 20 minutes reported in. I tried to bestow a little wisdom about magic, land count, and the legacy format.
R2- ANT- Game one has me landing a Bob who feeds me scullers and thoughtseizes. It takes a bit but get there with him having only mana available. Game 2 I get pyroclasmed on turn three that wipes out a deathrite and bob. T4 double LED into infernal for pif kills me deader than dead. G3 I mull to 5 and put all hope in a sculler, bob, and 3 lands. He probe/therapies me and takes sculler. Bob draws HOT and feeds me what seems like endless thoughtseizes. I get there on turn 10 or so after he grapeshoots my scooze but liliana lives and wins it for me.
R3- bant stoneblade- Two grindy games that I can't remember half of, but Library in both games is key. My sideboard is really well suited to beating fair decks. Fun magic, scooze and jitte were mvps.
R4- CHESTER (rip, helm, energy field deck) its getting late so I don't remember a lot of details, but discard wins game one and matching each rip with a decay g2 was sweet. Both games he lands a true name and I have liliana active. G2 he has one card in hand (helm) and I topdeck liliana from Library. Close shave, but seriously, library is the nuts.
List:
Drop a Deuce (2 slot is a bit backed up. ..)
4x deathrite
4x dark confidant
4x tarmogoyf
3x stoneforge
3x sculler
4x thoughtseize
2x inquisition of kozilek
4x swords to plowshares
3x abrupt decay
1x vindicate
2x liliana
1x bskull
1x jitte
2x library
4x verdant
1x windswept heath
1x marsh flats
1x misty rainforest
2x scrubland
1x bayou
1x temple garden
1x overgrown tomb
2x swamp
1x forest
1x plains
1x treetop village
1x volraths stronghold
3x wasteland
Sideboard
2x scavenging ooze
2x surgical extraction
2x lingering souls
2x zealous persecution
1x pithing needle
1x pernicious deed
1x gaddock teeg
2x choke
2x kor firewalker
Not a lot of tier deck action, but the games were interactive and skill testing (beyond r1.) Deck felt strong in a vacuum. I felt that inquisition was lackluster, sculler is a better additional targeted hate. I didn't draw many goyfs but whenever I did I was relieved to have a fast clock to finish games. I liked souls in the board and sculler main, just not sure what to replace it with. For curves sale it should be a one drop or three drop, preferably a 1 drop. Thinking green suns zenith for one of them and maybe a third liliana. Suggestions welcome.
Not a significant report by any means, but a fun day and I wanted to share. Going undefeated feels good, even if it is like playing basketball with midgets (in some matchups.) Got store credit for the record, nabbed a couple mm15 boosters and got an Iona, a Dark Confidant, and a foil Midnight Banshee (oooooh...)
Brainstorm Realist
I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner
Awesome!
I hVe been dabbling with other decks but GBw has always been in my heart. I know that we are never twit 1 so we are allowed to throw out crazy ideas whenever we want, check this out.
4 deathrite shaman
4 hypnotic specter
4 dark confidant
1 scavenging ooze
1 gaddock teeg
1 courser of kruphix
1 pridemage
4 thoughtsieze
4 hymn to tourach
4 green suns zenith
4 Lilliana of the veil
4 abrupt decay
3 tops
21 lands
12 turn 1 plays
8 turn 2 3 drops that have to be answered no matter what.
I think hypnotic specter might be good intodays meta, bonus is she blocks delver for days!
"eggs... why'd it have to be eggs"
In a meta where people race to fill their graves for Dig Through Time I dont see the appeal of Hypnotic Specter.
This has me wondering about maindeck scooze. Deathrite is good, but not a hoser like scooze. I feel that death and taxes along with deadguy ale are well placed by using rip in the board. I agree, hyppie is not the powerhouse it used to be. Lingering souls is much better for three and dig is a big reason why sculler is good now due to the exile effect. I don't think hyppie even sees play in the gate or evagreen anymore.
Brainstorm Realist
I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner
But has anyone actually cast a specter off of a deathrite shaman?
BG decks have been struggling with ways to keep pressure on and specters will do that. Early discard into specter/dark confidant with GSZ into teeg or scavenging ooze to lock out the DTT/graveyard engines. I imagine a Liliana or two would also be in the list to toss dead discard and to limit the opponents options.
"eggs... why'd it have to be eggs"
Try again whilst taking your opponents' plan into account. Your T1 DRS is very much a lightning rod for removal, for instance. That means that you'll drop your Specter T3 (whilst risking a Daze in the face), which means it'll attack no sooner than T4. In the meantime your opponent is setting up the CounterTop-lock or just combos out by the time you make your first swing.
I reckon you get where I'm going with this?
Ideas seem to only get scrutinized anymore Stray from the path and this forum is not really much help. Give hippie a comeback shot. What's the worst that could happen?
My 2-cents:
-I never added it to the deck because it didn't come down fast enough, even when I had diamonds in my list.
-Liliana was printed when I wanted to contain hand sizes. I knew it was random vs choice but Liliana gave me removal as well.
-Magical X-mas land does happen. Sometimes Santa comes. Sometimes, Krampus comes. Try not to tint your opinion based on a couple of games.
-Most things that say destroy, exile, or damage kill creatures. So, don't care about the removal aspect. At least it's terror proof.
Good luck on your testing. I hope it turns out as well as mine (again own a sapphire).
Tinkering with some crafting theory. Here
And responding to every idea with "yeah, that's the most amazing thing ever" is? Contemplate a bit more on why so many ideas are shot down, will you. You're kinda like the guy expecting a standing ovation from all Elves! players when he suggested Elves! should drop Glimpse of Nature and Natural Order for Collected Company and Ezuri. Without making the effort to explain why this would be a wonderful change, mind you.
Has anyone else tried different things lately? I seems like everyone's having less than stellar results with the standard builds. Or they're playing other decks almost exclusively. I'm using a modified version of the Mikokoru list I posted a couple pages ago. I'm enjoying the current iteration and have turned out to have pretty good results with it but understand that people don't want to use Mikokoro.
That looks to be intended as an exceptionally hurt response. My inbox has been feeling pretty neglected lately. You're welcome to continue your rant there.
On a sidenote, it is funny though because I am That Guy you mentioned, except that added part about not explaining things. It's even funnier if you know who I am. You have definitely never read my any posts. I'm big on theory behind my choices.
Tinkering with some crafting theory. Here
My version was doing pretty well last time I played it, but Legacy has kinda died out around here and I haven't played in over a month.
I think the biggest thing is the deep seeded emotional understanding that the right play is the right play regardless of outcomes. The ability to make a decision 5 straight times, lose 5 times because of it, and still make it the 6th time if it's the right play. - Jon Finkel
"Notions of chance and fate are the preoccupation of men engaged in rash undertakings."
Thanks for the support/comments?
The logic behind the specter is that we need continuous pressure on multiple fronts to be able to compete with all of the strategies currently in legacy. The core is bob/specter/Liliana to provide CA wity GSZ as support to the core.
Currently I am trying to decide if I want to abuse Lilliana more than just with top and confidant Lingering souls/loam are options at this point.
"eggs... why'd it have to be eggs"
I believe the best way to pressure the format is to have disruption on curve (thoughtseize into sculler into liliana) or to disrupt and then start racing. I like hyppie a lot, and I also like vampire nighthawk. And kitchen finks. And knight of the reliquary. However, there is only so much room to include utility creatures that you have to wait on. Some are obviously worth it like deathrite and confidant. Hyppie doesn't provide immediate value like sculler, hymn, or liliana. Long story short (too late I know): if your opponent can't deal with hypnotic specter they likely wouldn't be able to deal with a follow up goyf, souls, sculler, or liliana either.
Lavafrogg, how do you feel about cutting white and getting more aggressive? I think hyppie lends itself to that approach very well. It makes for a strategy that wants its threats to pull double duty rather than simply being the best at what it does. I think cutting some number of targeted discard or hymns for hyypie is a decent approach, I would think you'd eventually get to evagreen though. You're talking pressure and tempo over strict card advantage or good-stuff value. I hope you'll keep us posted on testing results.
I am however full aboard the Sylvan Library train. I would rather have focused, immediate value cards and ways to draw more of them or filter into them. Debating a 3rd or even something like Sign in Blood. The ability to hit a critical mass of threats and disruption is what sets it apart from other decks in my humble opinion.
Brainstorm Realist
I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner
For a little while I was using Exile into Darkness to help make Liliana less symmetrical. Early game it comes back, most times, but it also got eaten by about twice as many Deathrite as it got a chance to take out. I've got it cut right now though. Testing out a singleton Hymn to pair with act as a third to Gerrard's Verdict current in board. It wasn't bad if you saw it in your opener but the combo/control matches were more relevant in my area. I, at max, had two but preferred it to act as Diabolic Edict 3. At it was a extremely over-costed for legacy. It did allow you to use Liliana without hurting your hand after the first recursion.
Tinkering with some crafting theory. Here
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