I hear so many different things that I don't even know if my calculations are correct. Statistically speaking, what is the difference if I decided to go 61 with the full playset of bob? I'm asking because I honestly don't know, and if the difference is small, it looks very appealing...
The math is there. I've run 61 cards forever and it's been fine.
-Matt
There's little noticeable difference outside of either being a more "adaptable" list(61/62) or more "streamlined"(60).
Tinkering with some crafting theory. Here
It's gonna be 61 then :)
Taking this configuration to playtest against my buddies, any input would be much appreciated! (Sideboard is still being worked on)
Maindeck (61) :(
Land (23)
2x Bayou
1x Dark Depths
1x Forest
1x Karakas
3x Marsh Flats
1x Savannah
3x Scrubland
1x Swamp
1x Thespian's Stage
4x Verdant Catacombs
4x Wasteland
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
Creature (17)
4x Dark Confidant
4x Deathrite Shaman
4x Knight of the Reliquary
2x Stoneforge Mystic
3x Tarmogoyf
Instant (7)
3x Abrupt Decay
4x Swords to Plowshares
Artifact (3)
1x Batterskull
1x Sword of Feast and Famine
1x Umezawa's Jitte
Sorcery (7)
3x Hymn to Tourach
3x Thoughtseize
1x Inquisition of Kozilek
Enchantment (1)
1x Sylvan Library
Planeswalker (3)
3x Liliana of the Veil
Basically it's the standard Jund-like Junk build incorporating the Stoneforge package and the Dark Depths-Thespian's Stage combo to win out of nowhere when Knight of the Reliquary is active. (Added 1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth in place of a Windswept Heath to fight against being color-screwed by colorless lands).
Is my build trying to do too much at once or should I dedicate more slots to the main disruption/turn creatures sideways-gameplan?
you should test it. It seems nice at first glance (altough I'm not a fan of 2 stoneforges + batterskull nor dark depths + thespian).
Theoretically you got it all wrapped up. The only thing missing would be lingering souls but eh, can't have it all. Post your results for us!
EDIT: replace a wasteland for the urborg, bring the 8th fetchland: knights, shamen, and the manabase will thank you
After a long time with other decks I will return to "The Rock". Maybe you can give me a short feedback on my list.
Manabase:
3 Bayou
2 Scrubland
1 Savannah
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Windswept Heath
2 Marsh Flats
3 Wasteland
1 Karakas
1 Maze of Ith
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Forest
Critters:
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Dark Confidant
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Tarmogoyf
1 Thrun
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scavaging Ooze
Removal:
3 Swords
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Maelstrom Pulse
And:
2 Liliana otV
3 GSZ
2 Sylvan Library
4 Thoughtseize
SB:
2 Liliana
4 Duress
3 S. Extraction
1 LftL
1 Gaddock
2 Pernicious Deed
2 Thalia
With this list I want to be prepares for a lot of different matchups preboard.
It feels a bit strange to me to play the rock without a full set of goyfs and the lack of hymns, which are great in the early game, but mid or lategame they simply to not enough.
Liliana won me a lot of games, but there is no synergy with her in the deck...
And I am not sold on the dryad in the deck.
Recall the functions of Dryad.
1) Fetch end of turn for a surprise attacker against Planeswalkers
2) Fetch to sac to a Liliana
3) Another Turn 1 acceleration piece
4) A creature to sac to Cabal Therapy
If you find you're not using it for any of these reasons, then don't run it. Since you're running GSZ however, you might as well. If you find your mana stability in your meta is lacking, then run another basic land.
-Matt
Thanks for your feedbacks. I will keep the dryad for the moment.
My manabase feels solid.
The problem with souls is the fact, that in the most cases I simply use it to chumpblock critters. All the other critters can win the game by themself.
Thrun is at the moment only an experiment, I like him, but he has to show more performance... I will see...
I have never played any Rock variants but the deck, or should I say colors, really look like fun. As I don't currently own ANY Bob's, how would a list like this fare?
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Tarmogoyf
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Thoughtseize
3 Hymn to Tourach
1 Sylvan Library
4 Mox Diamond
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
4 Wasteland
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Maze of Ith
1 Karakas
2 Horizon Canopy
3 Savannah
3 Bayou
1 Scrubland
4 Windswept Heath
4 Verdant Catacombs
I figure with the Diamonds I can really have some ridiculous first and/or second turns that, if not interrupted, will dominate the early board(or just play them and let them be sacrificed to grow my Goyfs). Protected by the spot removal/discard, I would hope it would be able to suffice as a fast clock. Wastelands, as usual can just win some games by themselves. Now...will it work? Any opinions?
Today I am become death. The destroyer of worlds. -Oppenheimer
Take away the moxen, add 3 lingering souls and another thoughtseize/therapy/library/top.
Probably you'll have to change your manabase toaccomodate this, but you'll do well. Moxen became slightly redundant in the mid-range Rock (altough it may be nice on the tempo-based builds, however seldom might these builds be played). Lingering souls provides out of nowhere wins or board stabilization. Try them and see if you like.
EDIT: I've been playing this week with a list just like yours but:
-4 moxen
-1 sword of fire and ice
-1 decay
-1 stoneforge
+1 seize
+3 bob
+3 souls
+2 liliana
and 23 lands. And yes, that's 61 cards.
I've been liking it and I decided to test it after I saw a recent post in here, it's being really nice.
Ideally, you add some Bobs in and directly replace the Moxen. They're decent, however, when running only 23 lands, your ratios for lands to Moxen are off. You need 25+ to regularly support 4. 2-3 for 23 lands is more appropriate. However, they're dead draws in the later game.
If you don't have Bobs, which is fine, you run either more Sylvans and/or Phyrexian Arena. Even though Arena is 3 mana, it's still not too bad at all. Some European Junk builds were running them about 6 months ago in addition to Bob. So, instead of spending $250 for a set of Bobs, the Library, Arena, and Top cost you, what, $20?
So maybe something like:
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Tarmogoyf
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Thoughtseize
3 Hymn to Tourach
2 Sylvan Library
2 Phyrexian Arena
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
(put the other piece of Equipment in the board)
1 Nantucko Monastery
3 Wasteland
1 Maze of Ith
1 Karakas
1 Forest
1 Swamp
1 Plains
3 Savannah
3 Bayou
1 Scrubland
4 Windswept Heath
4 Verdant Catacombs
24
Here I've put in 24 lands since this build is REALLY going to want basic lands since you're really hard into white. I've changed your manabase around as well so you're a bit more consistent. Basic lands are the real deal, and since you're lacking 4 Bobs, the Monastery will help do some work. You could also add a 1-of Garruk/Elspeth/Bomb card since you're at 60 cards with 24 lands (so your ratios are very good).
For a board, I wouldn't leave home without...
3 Thalia
1 Manriki-Gusari
1 Life from the Loam
3 Gaddock Teeg
+7 others
-Matt
Looks pretty good Matt. I just may give it a try in a couple days at a local!
Today I am become death. The destroyer of worlds. -Oppenheimer
Let us know if you become a merchant of death. I would recommend getting Confidants when you can, though. They're only going to go up.
Is anyone here specifically in need of cards? Is anyone still running Shocks instead of duals or doesn't have Sylvans, etc.? I've got a ton of extra stuff that I may just send out.
-Matt
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