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Thread: [Deck] The Rock

  1. #7721

    Re: [Deck] The Rock

    Quote Originally Posted by Hanni View Post
    Okay? Not really sure what you're getting at. You're first paragraph makes it sound like you're saying that I'm stating the obvious, while the second paragraph makes it sound like I'm not. What was the point you were trying to get at? Was this meant to be a personal attack? Because if it was, you failed miserably.
    I just wanted to emulate someone I am a big fan of by doing a scorching hot take like they would.
    Quote Originally Posted by ThatDeleuzeGuy View Post
    I want to play as close to possible a 100% reactive deck that also approached 0% variance in how it played. I want to play magic with as little variance as possible. Also had a foiled out miracles deck that was an investment of about 6 grand that is now nearly worthless.
    Quote Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee View Post
    My original post did that.

    I'd love to have a battle of wits with you but I see you lack the necessary equipment.

    Good day.

  2. #7722
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    Re: [Deck] The Rock

    So mana dorks...what would that look like? I think it ends up looking a lot like Dark Maverick, essentially cutting MoM's for additional discard/interaction, a smaller GSZ package, Bobs/Library, and still trying to incorporate Goyfs/SFM package. It's more aggressive than Maverick but less aggressive than previous versions. Knight and GSZ address the various dickheads of the format with Karakas, Bog, RecSage, Scooze.

    3x Dark Confidant
    3x Tarmogoyf
    3x Stoneforge Mystic
    3x Knight of the Reliquary
    1x Reclamation Sage
    1x Scavenging Ooze
    1x Birds of Paradise
    1x Dryad Arbor

    4x Thoughtseize
    4x Swords to Plowshares
    3x Green Sun's Zenith
    4x Hymn to Tourach
    2x Sylvan Library
    2x Liliana, the Last Hope
    1x Umezawa's Jitte
    1x Sword of Fire and Ice

    4x Wasteland
    4x Verdant Catacombs
    4x Windswept Heath
    2x Marsh Flats
    2x Bayou
    2x Savannah
    1x Scrubland
    1x Swamp
    1x Forest
    1x Plains
    1x Karakas
    1x Bojuka Bog

    Sideboard
    1x Gaddock Teeg
    2x Surgical Extraction
    1x Maze of Ith
    2x Abrupt Decay
    1x Krosan Grip
    2x Toxic Deluge
    2x Ethersworn Canonist
    2x Duress
    2x Choke


    So, maybe we just basically revert to my SCG list from 2012 minus DRS? Miracles was and still is around, same with Sneak, Delver, Dredge, etc. Maybe just some tweaks?

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  3. #7723

    Re: [Deck] The Rock

    Isn't Knight of Autumn just straight up better than Rec Sage if you're in both Green and White?

    Also, is the SFM package worth running without Batterskull? Wouldn't a pair of Jitte's with no SFM just be better in that case?

    Is it still worth it to run Tarmogoyf if you've already got a huge graveyard beater in KotR?

    I don't see that mana base hitting BB on turn two too often, wouldn't you be better off with IoK and Brutality in place of those Hymns then?

    I mean, overall, I like the list, just trying to help it along by asking questions.

    EDIT: I was thinking about how nobody runs Siege Rhino anymore, what would it take to make him viable? Would even adding the words "draw a card" do it?

  4. #7724
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    Re: [Deck] The Rock

    Quote Originally Posted by morgan_coke View Post
    Isn't Knight of Autumn just straight up better than Rec Sage if you're in both Green and White?

    Also, is the SFM package worth running without Batterskull? Wouldn't a pair of Jitte's with no SFM just be better in that case?

    Is it still worth it to run Tarmogoyf if you've already got a huge graveyard beater in KotR?

    I don't see that mana base hitting BB on turn two too often, wouldn't you be better off with IoK and Brutality in place of those Hymns then?

    I mean, overall, I like the list, just trying to help it along by asking questions.

    EDIT: I was thinking about how nobody runs Siege Rhino anymore, what would it take to make him viable? Would even adding the words "draw a card" do it?
    Knight of Autumn is a straight upgrade for sure. This was literally just a spitball list using a template of 16 threats, 22- 24 lands, the rest interaction and card advantage.

    Brutality without synergy seems bad, as in no souls. I like your idea of dropping sfm for rhinos. Goyfs are there to have another beefy threat, something that can close a game by itself. Rhinos aren't bar, its just steep at 4 mana and hurts with bob flips.

    Sfm does seem slow, even though it is technically card advantage. I think:

    -3 sfm
    -1 sofi
    -2 hymn
    -1 recsage
    +2 duress/iok
    +1 goyf
    +1 bob
    +2 rhino
    +1 knight of autumn

    Also, double black means it probably needs -1 savannah, +1 scrubland, maybe an urborg.
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  5. #7725
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    Re: [Deck] The Rock

    My list from 2012 was contained in the article I wrote after that tournament:

    http://www.eternalcentral.com/rockin...win-in-legacy/

    [Business] (39)
    4 Dark Confidant
    4 Knight of the Reliquary
    3 Tarmogoyf
    1 Scavenging Ooze
    3 Deathrite Shaman


    3 Thoughtseize
    3 Inquisition of Kozilek
    4 Swords to Plowshares
    3 Abrupt Decay
    2 Maelstrom Pulse
    3 Green Sun’s Zenith
    2 Sensei’s Divining Top
    2 Sylvan Library
    1 Garruk Relentless
    1 Maze of Ith

    [Mana Sources] (22)
    3 Wasteland
    1 Karakas
    4 Verdant Catacombs
    3 Marsh Flats
    1 Windswept Heath
    3 Bayou
    2 Scrubland
    1 Savannah
    1 Dryad Arbor
    1 Swamp
    1 Forest
    1 Plains



    [Sideboard] (15)
    3 Hymn to Tourach
    2 Pernicious Deed
    1 Ulvenwald Tracker
    1 Virtue’s Ruin
    1 Garruk Relentless
    3 Surgical Extraction
    2 Gaddock Teeg
    2 Timely Reinforcements


    ---------------------------------------------

    Basically, the plan was dudes, flexibility, and beating face. My tournament run starts on Page 192 of this thread.

    As we now know, 3 Deathrite was obviously wrong, however, very few people actually ran DRS and did well in that tournament. I was hesitant on the card, but it was obviously amazing all tournament long. For today, I still think Goyf is a fine beater, but SFM allows you to have a tad more flex in getting past TNN's, especially with Souls. Knight was always great, but now might only be okay since we're slowin' down. Realistically, we still come back to the issues we had before: how do we stabilize mana production in the early game, allowing us to cast these good multicoloured spells, while not succumbing to dead draws later on? In addition, blue has way more advantage going for it now than in 2012. I agree, this does make it harder to justify playing these colours (and realistically, Nic Fit might be the better deck especially in the meta), but that doesn't mean one gives up.

    I think there's still play in running a Junky midrange deck that has some tools in the toolbox.

    So, you could run something like:

    3 Tarmogoyf
    1 Scavenging Ooze
    3 Stoneforge Mystic
    4 Dark Confidant
    2 Knight of the Reliquary
    13

    3 Cabal Therapy
    2 Thoughtseize
    2 Collective Brutality
    3 Lingering Souls
    2 Green Sun's Zenith
    1 Sword of Fire and Ice
    1 Umezawa's Jitte
    14

    3 Swords to Plowshares
    2 Abrupt Decay
    2 Assassin's Trophy
    1 Garruk Relentless
    3 Sylvan Library
    11

    23 Lands


    Board:

    1 Garruk Relentless
    1 Gaddock Teeg
    3 Surgical Extraction
    2 Hymn To Tourach
    3 Choke
    +5 since I'm not as familiar on the metagame.

    Just brainstorming...
    "I only drink whiskey older than my girlfriends. It's an expensive hobby at either end of the scale, no matter which way you work it. Do you go with an expensive lady, or a smooth drink? It's a real dilemma."

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  6. #7726
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    Re: [Deck] The Rock

    Could it be worth trying replacing the Goyfs by Scavenging Oozes, running 4 of them? And maybe 1-2 Goyf to get with GSZ when needed, I'd skip though. Ooze in multiples may keep both Miracles and Grixis Control off of some of their removal and card advantage, no more Accumulated Knowledges or Snapcaster doubling up on removal. And strong g1 interaction vs graveyard-based decks, a bit slow vs Reanimator but at least with lots of discard there is a fair chance of slowing them down a bit (like every third game or so). At least on paper it helps vs both snapcaster-decks and graveyard-based decks and these are rather well positioned now. I guess it may not quite be good enough..

  7. #7727
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    Re: [Deck] The Rock

    If you go to something Noble Hierarch Scooze gets better. Turn 2 with Open activation on Scooze against Reanimator is really good on the play
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Cheese View Post
    I've been taking shitty brews and tier 2 decks to tournaments and losing with them for years now. Welcome to the club. We meet for cocktails after round 6.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevestamopz View Post
    Top quality german restraint there.

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  8. #7728

    Re: [Deck] The Rock

    I'm finally able to start dabbling on my post DRS project, just straight BG Rock. The 3rd color always felt cumbersome even with Deathrite so hopefully only being on 2 colors will make the deck smoother, similar to the modern version. Incoming super SUPER rough draft.

    Lands (22)
    3 Bayou
    1 Cabal Pit
    1 Dryad Arbor
    1 Forest
    1 Horizon Canopy
    2 Marsh Flats
    4 Swamp
    2 Treetop Village
    4 Verdant Catacombs
    3 Wasteland

    Creatures (11)
    3 Dark Confidant
    2 Scavenging Ooze
    4 Tarmogoyf
    2 Tireless Tracker

    Sorcerys (13)
    3 Green Sun's Zenith
    4 Thoughtseize
    3 Hymn to Tourach
    1 Life From the Loam
    1 Maelstrom Pulse
    1 Toxic Deluge

    Instants (8)
    3 Fatal Push
    2 Abrupt Decay
    2 Assassin's Trophy
    1 Diabolic Edict

    Planeswalkers (4)
    3 Liliana of the Veil
    1 Liliana, the Last Hope

    Enchantments (2)
    2 Sylvan Library

    Sideboard (15)
    1 Bitterblossom
    1 Chains of Mephistopheles
    2 Choke
    2 Golgari Charm
    1 Grafidgger's Cage
    1 Hymn to Tourach
    1 Liliana, the Last Hope
    2 Pithing Needle
    4 Surgical Extraction

    I like the core of the main deck, just need to work out the final details. The sideboard needs major work since I have no idea what the legacy meta is online.

    1) I was teetering between Mox Diamond and Chrome Mox but I ended up with Green Sun's Zenith as our accelerator. Sure, we can't Turn 1 Hymn, but as a grindy deck, I don't think we can take the hit on card advantage with those 2 cards. I just like how T1 it's an accelerator, and late game, it's an extra beater in Goyf/Scooze/ etc.

    2) This also leads to how awkward the mana is. T1 Zenith for Arbor DOES NOT help cast Hymn on Turn 2. I might have to swap Treetop Village for Hissing Quagmires to increase the amount of black sources, but that's a pretty hefty sacrifice. Overall, I count 14 black sources. REALLY low. This is the area I probably need the most help after the Sideboard. I just like the idea of recurring Cabal Pit and Horizon Canopy with Loam so I'm trying this little package out. I could also run an Urborg maybe?

    3) Like I said, the sideboard needs help. I haven't played Legacy since DRS was banned so I have no idea how the meta is shaped. Should I run Damping Sphere for Storm? Marsh Casualties for D&T/Elves instead of Golgari Charm? Are there any other combo hate sideboard cards BG has access to?

    4) I might have 1 or 2 too many removal spells main, so I might swap a Bitterblossom to the main.

    Let me know what you guys think!

  9. #7729
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    Re: [Deck] The Rock

    That's the 'fairest' pile of good stuff I've seen in a long time. I love that you're fighting the good fight, but it seems to need something that pushes it over the edge. Maybe Phyrexian Obliterator or something similar.
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  10. #7730
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    Re: [Deck] The Rock

    I too am coming off my long hiatus I think; but I'm dabblin' elsewhere. You've noted one of the biggest annoyances with GSZ and Noble Hierarch is that, unlike DRS; they get you more green mana, but not necessarily the colors you want. For straight BG I'd consider starting from:

    3 Bitterblossom
    4 Goyf
    2 Equips (2 jitte or jitte/SoFaI)

    3-4 Cabal Therapy(?)
    3 Collective Brutality

    There's a lot of nifty synergies in there. Blossom + Equips, dead-Blossom + Goyf, Brutality + Therapy, Brutality->drop-blossom->play Goyf. Jitte + Brutality also turn you from instant-lose to Burn to probably 50/50. Brutality is that good against the IMO.

    Then I'd fill it out to have a more even curve:

    Creatures (11)
    3 Dark Confidant
    2 Scavenging Ooze
    4 Tarmogoyf
    2 Tireless Tracker

    Sorcerys (12)
    3 Thoughtseize
    3 Cabal Therapy
    3 Collective Brutality
    2 Life From the Loam
    1 Maelstrom Pulse
    1 Toxic Deluge

    Instants (5)
    3 Fatal Push
    2 Assassin's Trophy

    Planeswalkers (3)
    3 Liliana of the Veil

    Enchantments (5)
    2 Mirri's Guile
    3 Bitterblossom

    Artifacts (5):
    2 Umezawa's Jitte
    3 Chrome Mox

    For the Chrome Mox i'd remove 3 lands. Chrome Mox can:
    * Buff Goyf when destroyed
    * Be discarded to Brutality/Lily when useless
    * Be pushed away by Mirri's Guile
    * Allows T1 DC or Blossom; which are must-answer
    * Can use its trigger on useless cards in your hand' making them relevant for the MU/board-state

    Also, if Lily is your only BB, your manabase will be more stable. Guile works better with Confidant and your life-total matters a lot more when you're dropping your only lifegain in the deck. Loams just felt right next to brutality/lily/guile (clears your top-decks, gets stuff to self-discard.) This deck is much more aggressive as well, while Blossoms/Mox's also help you survive Blood Moon/Lands MUs/Miracles (because Blossom sometimes wins by itself.)
    Quote Originally Posted by Nestalim View Post
    Wrong. Gideon Emblem protect you from losing and you can even open your binder and slam some cards on the board, not even the HJ can DQ you now.

  11. #7731

    Re: [Deck] The Rock

    Thanks for the input guys!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    That's the 'fairest' pile of good stuff I've seen in a long time. I love that you're fighting the good fight, but it seems to need something that pushes it over the edge. Maybe Phyrexian Obliterator or something similar.
    Im waiting for the day to Loam + Wasteland out a guy with a Tireless Tracker in play 😍😍😍


    Quote Originally Posted by tescrin View Post
    I too am coming off my long hiatus I think; but I'm dabblin' elsewhere. You've noted one of the biggest annoyances with GSZ and Noble Hierarch is that, unlike DRS; they get you more green mana, but not necessarily the colors you want. For straight BG I'd consider starting from:

    3 Bitterblossom
    4 Goyf
    2 Equips (2 jitte or jitte/SoFaI)

    3-4 Cabal Therapy(?)
    3 Collective Brutality

    There's a lot of nifty synergies in there. Blossom + Equips, dead-Blossom + Goyf, Brutality + Therapy, Brutality->drop-blossom->play Goyf. Jitte + Brutality also turn you from instant-lose to Burn to probably 50/50. Brutality is that good against the IMO.

    Then I'd fill it out to have a more even curve:

    Creatures (11)
    3 Dark Confidant
    2 Scavenging Ooze
    4 Tarmogoyf
    2 Tireless Tracker

    Sorcerys (12)
    3 Thoughtseize
    3 Cabal Therapy
    3 Collective Brutality
    2 Life From the Loam
    1 Maelstrom Pulse
    1 Toxic Deluge

    Instants (5)
    3 Fatal Push
    2 Assassin's Trophy

    Planeswalkers (3)
    3 Liliana of the Veil

    Enchantments (5)
    2 Mirri's Guile
    3 Bitterblossom

    Artifacts (5):
    2 Umezawa's Jitte
    3 Chrome Mox

    For the Chrome Mox i'd remove 3 lands. Chrome Mox can:
    * Buff Goyf when destroyed
    * Be discarded to Brutality/Lily when useless
    * Be pushed away by Mirri's Guile
    * Allows T1 DC or Blossom; which are must-answer
    * Can use its trigger on useless cards in your hand' making them relevant for the MU/board-state

    Also, if Lily is your only BB, your manabase will be more stable. Guile works better with Confidant and your life-total matters a lot more when you're dropping your only lifegain in the deck. Loams just felt right next to brutality/lily/guile (clears your top-decks, gets stuff to self-discard.) This deck is much more aggressive as well, while Blossoms/Mox's also help you survive Blood Moon/Lands MUs/Miracles (because Blossom sometimes wins by itself.)
    I am not a fan of Cabal Therapy in this deck. You NEED your turn 1 interaction to hit something. And the flashback cost isnt nothing, even with Bitterblossom. And for you to curve out with T1 Therapy, T2 Blossom, T3 Flashback, itll be too slow.

    I might run 1 or 2 Blossom main, but I like the idea of Brutality over Hymn. Itll probably let my unforgiving manabase slide, since it only requires 1 black source, unlike Hymn.

    I am not a fan of Chrome Mox + 20 Lands however. It kind of Nombos with Tireless Tracker. I tested a couple matches already and REALLY like Green Suns Zenith, because its not a bad topdeck. Late game tracker + land is HUGE.

    The equipment I am a little iffy on. I wanted to run 2 Jitte, but since I cut Stoneforge, I am unsure if it is worth it without a tutor effect. However, if I swap around my discard/removal suite by adding 2 Brutality and 2 Blossom, I can probabltly fit 2 Jitte somewhere. Escalating, discarding extra Blossoms and Jittes to grow Goyf seems great.

    Ill try to post a second draft later this weekend but seems like a good start. Thanks everyone! More input is also welcome :)

  12. #7732
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    Re: [Deck] The Rock

    If you don't have synergies I would only suggest Therapy as discard #5+. It works very well if you know what to name or if you've Thoughtseized/Brutalitied first, but that is rare. Synergies help make it better (Explorer) but that's another deck.
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  13. #7733
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    Re: [Deck] The Rock

    I haven't been big on a 4th thoughtseize in many years. Even after getting into blue, 4 TS just hurts so badly against aggro when you draw 3-4 of 'em. If running #4 I always turn it into Therapy, IoK, Duress, Brutality.. something. Never again i say!

    I mostly suggested Therapy as the Brutality synergy is just neat; but I'll admit there's not tons to sac here. That said, Therapy is a nice way to turn a random creature card into more interaction against combo in a pinch, so I wouldn't completely discount it. Not sure what I'd put in those slots, but some form of color-light disruption seems prudent (probably IoK's, as a 3/3/3 split of TS/IoK/Sculler has treated DGA well for ages)

    I still would consider the Mox's. DGA seems to be using them to effect right now and it seems like a nice fit with all the discard; T1 bobs/blossoms also sound pretty nice (where Bob can replace the card loss early.) Mox's may also make me more comfortable about Hymn, given that you'll be more-able to get rid of uncastables; and this deck seems to really want more ways to get stuff going T1.

    Jitte's mostly a mention because Blossom => equips; you'll find that back when The Gate was a thing that's what they did; largely as a concession to Bob/Blossom/TS killing themselves.

    Hope that helps explain all the funky mentions
    Quote Originally Posted by Nestalim View Post
    Wrong. Gideon Emblem protect you from losing and you can even open your binder and slam some cards on the board, not even the HJ can DQ you now.

  14. #7734
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    Re: [Deck] The Rock

    Something along the lines of a Kitchen Finks would be pretty awesome with Therapy. I've always wondered if Strangleroot Geist is playable in Legacy. It probably isn't but the 'cool stuff' interaction with Therapy seems decent. T1 Therapy, t2 Geist > flashback therapy > attack for 3.

    I've messed around with Eternal Witness/Unearth combos as well. Don't get me wrong, I love Cabal Therapy and it has always served me well. I don't suggest EW/Unearth unless you're looking for a grindier deck. Right now your list is still quite aggressive, which is likely better. If you decided to go deeper into something like Green Sun's Zenith then Witness gets really good.

    One thing I've been doing is maindecking a Dryad Arbor in Turbo Depths for Cabal Therapy synergy. Every fetchland turns into a 2nd Therapy, and with your deck already sporting a couple Loams I think it's a safe inclusion. I'm assuming a full set of Wastelands to justify the Loams?

    Another card that is incredible with Brutality/Therapy is Lingering Souls. I know you aren't splashing white, and I'm not recommending it, but my Deadguy Ale projects have been focused on those synergies.

    EDIT: Almost forgot: Smuggler's Copter. This seems very good with Bitterblossom tokens that are summoning sick and Dark Confidant (which you don't want to attack with very often.) Even an outclassed Scooze gets upgraded, and if you work in Dryad Arbor it can also activate the Copter (even while summoning sick.) I would play some number of Jitte and Copter as your 'equipment'.
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  15. #7735

    Re: [Deck] The Rock

    What is wrong with you people? Why is that anytime someone posts a list that is reasonable in this thread, you give the worst possible takes about the list???
    Quote Originally Posted by ThatDeleuzeGuy View Post
    I want to play as close to possible a 100% reactive deck that also approached 0% variance in how it played. I want to play magic with as little variance as possible. Also had a foiled out miracles deck that was an investment of about 6 grand that is now nearly worthless.
    Quote Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee View Post
    My original post did that.

    I'd love to have a battle of wits with you but I see you lack the necessary equipment.

    Good day.

  16. #7736
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    Re: [Deck] The Rock

    Quote Originally Posted by CptHaddock View Post
    What is wrong with you people? Why is that anytime someone posts a list that is reasonable in this thread, you give the worst possible takes about the list???
    Explain.
    I am counted amongst legions of the unrighteous
    who dread not being immersed in pits of fire

  17. #7737

    Re: [Deck] The Rock

    Hey there, sorry for the really late response.
    I`ve been on the GSZ package in The Rock since the day DRS got banned now and its really great even though you need to make some changes. I cut the Hymn because double Black was really hard to consistantly hit on T2 and I also cut the Stoneforges since they`re soooooo bad against KCommand. But I would never cut White because of Lingering Souls and Sorin, Lord of Innistrad. Those cards win about 80% of the control MUs on its own.
    Right now my list is:
    4 Goyf
    4 Bob
    4 Zenith
    3 Souls (4th in Side)
    1 Ooze
    1 Knight of Autumn
    1 Ramunap Excavator
    1 Teeg
    1 Dryad Arbor

    3 TS
    2 IoK
    3 STP
    2 Decay
    2 Trophy

    3 Sylvan Library
    2 Liliana, the Last Hope
    2 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad

    22 Lands

    I Know its 61 cards but I dont mind that because i really love all those cards.
    What Im gonna try during the next tests will be - Confidant and STPs, + Noble Hierarch and Palace Jailer with the 4th Souls Main.
    After cutting the Hymns and Lilly Veils I felt like the Confidants have always been bad or medicore at best since we dont do the classic 1 for 1 CA game anymore. If we would, we would loose to to Miracels as well as Grixis. So instead we have to up the threat density. Thats why I love the GSZ so much, because we run like 8 Tarmogoyfs along with enough ways to deal with Baleful Strix. And if we get hymned, we have Library, Souls and our Walkers, especially Sorin, to have a really huge topdeck game. I have tried Bitterblossom instead of Bobs but didnt really like it tbh. They often came either too late or have been not aggressive enough to win the game unless it was against Miracels.
    So Im gonna try Jailer just to have an infitie Card draw that doesnt hurt our life totals or can die to removal. I`ve tried Jailer in Maverick and it felt really great so it might be great with Souls and Sorin token to chump as well. I Know it sounds a little contrarary cutting Bob because its bad and adding Jailer for CA but they play very differently.

    Im up for any critics and comments but please guys, I won`t paly stuff like Strangleroot Geist or multiple Collective Brutalitys, I wont to be a competetive Legacy deck and not an EDH fringe pile.

  18. #7738

    Re: [Deck] The Rock

    Hymn and SFM are some of this archetype's best cards to attack the format, why are you cutting them? SFM helps you stabilize and take over games against all the aggressive decks e.g. delver and hymn lets you fight against all the control decks in the format. KCommand is going to be a 2 for 1 regardless of if you're going to play SFM or not, so that is a silly not to play that card. It's actually not that hard to play around kcommand out of grixis, playing right into it is how you lose that matchup 90% of the time. You are generating virtual card advantage by forcing them to keep 3 mana open each turn, and if you are committing things to the board you are coming out quite a bit ahead.

    I don't think that there is anything wrong with a planeswalker top end, imo if you're playing junk that is exactly what your top end should be. There aren't any creatures cmc 3+ that are really worth playing on their own. I know that you're coming from a maverick background but GSZ is just bad in this deck, a lot of the silver bullets aren't worth running because Abrupt Decay/Assassin's Trophy and Discard take care the majority of the problems that you might run into. I haven't really felt the need for goyfs 5-8 in any game, I can usually find a threat via sylvan library when I need to start ending the game. In games vs Grixis/Miracles I actually cut my goyfs and replace them with more durable threats e.g. planeswalkers, bitterblossom, choke, etc.

    edit: You should also be playing some amount of Liliana the Last Hope, she's a card tailor made for this archetype in that she attacks both fair and unfair decks while synergizing with cards like lingering souls.
    Quote Originally Posted by ThatDeleuzeGuy View Post
    I want to play as close to possible a 100% reactive deck that also approached 0% variance in how it played. I want to play magic with as little variance as possible. Also had a foiled out miracles deck that was an investment of about 6 grand that is now nearly worthless.
    Quote Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee View Post
    My original post did that.

    I'd love to have a battle of wits with you but I see you lack the necessary equipment.

    Good day.

  19. #7739
    Is Cancer

    Join Date

    Jul 2014
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    1,144

    Re: [Deck] The Rock

    Quote Originally Posted by mckeks91 View Post
    Im up for any critics and comments but please guys, I won`t paly stuff like Strangleroot Geist or multiple Collective Brutalitys, I wont to be a competetive Legacy deck and not an EDH fringe pile.
    Since my snarky comment was deleted, I guess I'll post one that is informative:

    I don't get why you think Collective Brutality is bad.
    -> It synergizes with Bob by getting you life by expending garbage cards that you can't use (such as Land #6)
    -> It is a Bye against burn, which you will currently be like 20/80 against. Not exaggerating.
    -> It's never dead; which makes it like a lot like Liliana of the Veil (where it's removal against creature decks, discard against combo, and is a discard outlet for garbage to boot)
    -> It's especially good against Elves, for example, killing a dude and grabbing one of their combo pieces in one go the turn that they could normally kill you
    -> Storm occasionally brings in Dark Confidants, Xanthid Swarms (more relevant for blue obviously) or similar. CB happens to fill both roles as a disrupter AND a hedge against obnoxious creatures.

    CB not only increases your chances in bad MUs, but it can filter your hand; much like Liliana.
    Note: Lily of the Veil is not efficient either. Usually she's a 3-mana sorcery speed Edict, and she's somewhat relevant against Combo decks when you have garbage cards you can pitch while limiting their combo pieces. The reason she's good is that she is conditionally very efficient.
    ____________
    I would also echo everything haddock said; except I'd say Garruk Relentless is better than Sorin. Easier to cast by *a lot*, produces better tokens, is removal in a pinch (which this deck likes to spam.) Sorin's -2 is interesting; but I have used it before and it tends to be "win more" rather than "is good"
    Quote Originally Posted by Nestalim View Post
    Wrong. Gideon Emblem protect you from losing and you can even open your binder and slam some cards on the board, not even the HJ can DQ you now.

  20. #7740

    Re: [Deck] The Rock

    I think that brutality is a super mediocre card the majority of the time outside of the burn/ur burn matchups. It usually just ends up being a 2 mana duress or 2 mana disfigure and for 2 cmc you can just play with cards that are leagues better in hymn, decay and trophy. If you want more discard you can even do hymns 5-9 in the form of gerrard's verdict.

    I think that Garruk is the worst of the 3, Sorin synergizes better with lingering souls, clumps of squires and bobs and can also move your goyfs past the threshold where they can trade with an angler (worst case).
    Quote Originally Posted by ThatDeleuzeGuy View Post
    I want to play as close to possible a 100% reactive deck that also approached 0% variance in how it played. I want to play magic with as little variance as possible. Also had a foiled out miracles deck that was an investment of about 6 grand that is now nearly worthless.
    Quote Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee View Post
    My original post did that.

    I'd love to have a battle of wits with you but I see you lack the necessary equipment.

    Good day.

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