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Thread: [Deck] The Rock

  1. #7301
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    Re: [Deck] The Rock

    Quote Originally Posted by lavafrogg View Post
    Why no love for Cabal Therapy? Running plenty of creatures and thought size allows us to not cast it blind every time. Seems like it fits in well with the discard package, I think the first discard I would cut is hymn as He list is heavy on two drops as it is.

    I could go -3 hymn, +1 thoughtsieze, +1 Cabal Therapy, +1 GSZ target

    Creatures(17)
    3 Tarmogoyf
    4 Dark Confidant
    4 Deathrite Shaman
    3 Tireless Tracker
    1 Reclamation Sage
    1 Scavenging Ooze
    1 Dryad Arbor

    Discard(7)
    4 Thoughtsieze
    3 Cabal Therapy

    Removal(7)
    3 Fatal Push
    4 Abrupt Decay

    Card Selection(6)
    3 Sylvan Library
    1 Life from the Loam
    2 Green Sun's Zenith

    Planeswalkers(2)
    1 Lilliana of the Veil
    1 Garruk Relentless

    Lands(21)
    2 Swamps
    2 Forests
    4 Bayou
    4 Verdant Catacombs
    3 Misty Rainforest
    4 Wasteland
    1 Volrath's Stronghold
    1 Phyrexian Tower

    Sideboard(15)
    3 Lost Legacy
    3 Diabolic Edict
    3 Engineered Explosives
    1 Gaddock Teeg
    1 Thrun, the Last Troll
    1 Eternal Witness
    3 Choke

    I kinda dig this list.
    Of the choices you gave, I liked the Unearth + Witness more. It looks like you're going with the zenith route though. In this case I'd give you the best investment advice you can typically get, "Diversify your bonds." You're extremely limited in what you have access to at each X value.
    as a side question, do you or your opponent typically go hellbent quickly? If so, what about Asylum Visitor instead of Bob? If you are planning on using more self discard, it could be a good thing.
    Tinkering with some crafting theory. Here

  2. #7302
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    Re: [Deck] The Rock

    Quote Originally Posted by damionblackgear View Post
    Of the choices you gave, I liked the Unearth + Witness more. It looks like you're going with the zenith route though. In this case I'd give you the best investment advice you can typically get, "Diversify your bonds." You're extremely limited in what you have access to at each X value.
    as a side question, do you or your opponent typically go hellbent quickly? If so, what about Asylum Visitor instead of Bob? If you are planning on using more self discard, it could be a good thing.
    I have not tested the GSZ build, I was just discussing for someone that posted about wanting GSZ.

    Current list:

    Creatures(16)
    4 Tarmogoyf
    4 Dark Confidant
    4 Deathrite Shaman
    3 Tireless Tracker
    1 Dryad Arbor

    Discard(8)
    3 Thoughtsieze
    2 Cabal Therapy
    3 Hymn to Tourach

    Removal(7)
    3 Fatal Push
    4 Abrupt Decay

    Card Selection(7)
    3 Sylvan Library
    1 Life from the Loam
    3 Noxious Revival

    Planeswalkers(2)
    1 Lilliana of the Veil
    1 Garruk Relentless

    Lands(21)
    2 Swamps
    2 Forests
    4 Bayou
    4 Verdant Catacombs
    3 Misty Rainforest
    4 Wasteland
    1 Volrath's Stronghold
    1 Phyrexian Tower

    Sideboard(15)
    3 Lost Legacy
    2 Diabolic Edict
    3 Engineered Explosives
    2 Cabal Therapy
    2 Surgical Extractions
    3 Choke

    I really like the shell I am just going back and forth between 3 Tracker/3 Revival and 3 Witness/3 Unearth. At the end of the day, Tracker is a beast, he usually draws 2-3 cards and pretty much always draws at least 1. He gets much larger and takes the pressure off of Goyf as the sole beatstick.

    I am just really happy with the Revivals, I have lots of card advantage with Bob/Tracker/Library/Loam so going -1 to ensure my next draw is the card I want is a big deal. It pretty much functions as a Vampiric Tutor turn 3-4 with land/removal/discard/dude usually being in the yard. With Liliana and Garruk being in the deck, people usually waste resources to remove the planeswalkers and being able to draw them the turn after they die, or same turn with a clue, is a pretty big deal.

    Big uses, no matter how rare: taking a reanimation target out of the graveyard on turn 0, messing with counterbalance flips, redrawing a wastelanded land when short, redrawing lost legacy after board, regrowing any card after the opponent used a limited resource to destroy.. ie Sylvan Library, countering a snapcaster mage, countering a deathrite shaman activation, ruining a top deck when it really matters, helping with runner-runner cabal therapy or hymn is also game breaking.

    haddock-

    I would remove a witness as you have 2 GSZ to find her. You should switch the leylines in your board to something else as you can't really mulligan for a 2 of... I really like the Loam/Lili interaction. Hopefully I can play this weekend, if not it will be Monday. Good Luck!
    "eggs... why'd it have to be eggs"

  3. #7303
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    Re: [Deck] The Rock

    Quote Originally Posted by damionblackgear View Post
    Of the choices you gave, I liked the Unearth + Witness more. It looks like you're going with the zenith route though. In this case I'd give you the best investment advice you can typically get, "Diversify your bonds." You're extremely limited in what you have access to at each X value.
    He was responding to my suggestions to his original list with Unearths and Eternal Witness. He mentioned feeling that he was a little light on threats, and somewhat unsure of the Unearths, which was why I suggested Zenith. Zenith can fetch Witness if you want to retrieve something, so you need less of those. Furthermore, it makes Dryad Arbor a lot better, helping smoothe out the curve, and of course it helps us to more threats. Small bonus is the fact that you can get Reclamation Sage. I felt that it should be a fine addition, and posted a rough draft list in which I forgot to add Sylvan Library. That was a mistake, obviously, so I dropped Cabal Therapy to make space for Libraries.

    And to answer Lavafrogg: I indeed am not the biggest fan of Therapy. It's good if you can use it well, but we don't run Probes and we also don't have token generators, so we don't have many ways to use Therapy optimally. But mostly I feel Therapy is hard to play, and demotivating when you screw it up, and you can easily avoid that. You can easily run cards that always work, like Hymn or Duress, so I prefer those.

    BUT! Important note: This is my personal opinion. It's how I build my decks. I play competitively maybe once a month tops, so I tend to be a bit rusty. Making things easier for myself is a bit of a necessity unfortunately. It might be optimal to run a number of Therapies in a deck like this. I can't say for sure. All I can say for sure is that in my hands, the deck will be worse for it.

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    Re: [Deck] The Rock

    Ahh. Sorry, I thought you updated to zenith. Thanks asthereal for the explanation as well. I must've missed the other post, sorry. Tracker seems OK. I don't know that there are that many really "good on their own" 3cc creatures in gb. Tracker may be the best one.

    Question though, what about going beyond 3? Maybe creakwood liege? I know it's a 2/2 but it makes 3/3s and and avoids decay and push. You could replace 1 of the revivals with it or a second garruk instead? 3 is just seems a large number of revivals.
    Tinkering with some crafting theory. Here

  5. #7305
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    Re: [Deck] The Rock

    Quote Originally Posted by damionblackgear View Post
    Ahh. Sorry, I thought you updated to zenith. Thanks asthereal for the explanation as well. I must've missed the other post, sorry. Tracker seems OK. I don't know that there are that many really "good on their own" 3cc creatures in gb. Tracker may be the best one.

    Question though, what about going beyond 3? Maybe creakwood liege? I know it's a 2/2 but it makes 3/3s and and avoids decay and push. You could replace 1 of the revivals with it or a second garruk instead? 3 is just seems a large number of revivals.
    If I wanted to go bigger, I would pick another planeswalker, possibly a second Garruk or Lilliana. We still have to worry about other removal so having your big 4-5 drop sent farming is pretty bad.

    Noxious Revival has been pretty amazing. I want to do a write up about the card soon after I get more playing time.

    Found a bonus use for trips GSZ: more shuffle effects for library.. not really game breaking due to current shuffle and bob... but it is a plus

    Also, pitching needle has officially made it into the board, answers a lot of problems we can have... Jace, top, dark depths...
    Last edited by lavafrogg; 02-11-2017 at 02:20 AM.
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    Re: [Deck] The Rock

    I ended up continuing my streak of getting top 8 and then losing 1st round with nonpainter decks at the win a dual tournament, there were about 20 people there. My list is basically the one I posted a page back with 1 change, I added another maelstrom pulse to the main as i'm always used to seeing a bunch of random decks like Sylvan Plug and Nic Fit whenever I go to this tournament series.

    I went 4-0-1 in the swiss. My matches were as follows:

    Round 1: Shardless BUG (2-0)

    My opponent brought shardless agent to a rock fight, enough said. I originally thought he was on elves as that is what he normally plays and he thought that I was on painter. I'm not sure how the elves matchup is, I imagine it's bad though.

    Round 2: Bant splashing Leovold Stoneblade (2-1)

    Game 1: I killed his elf and then wastelanded him to concession.

    Game 2: I made the mistake of being a little greedy and getting a bayou instead of a basic and ended up getting punished by a series of wastelands and TNN + Jitte.

    Game 3: I got very lucky this match, I kept finding answers to my opponent's permanents at just the right moment but this was a game of haymaker after haymaker from both my opponent and I. I did have one kind of sweet play this game. My opponent had a Leovold and TNN on the table and the only thing I had was a board of an active Garruk (Flipped), a rec sage, a wolf token and a bunch of lands and moxes including karakas. I ended up sacking a wolf to get a e-witness to get back a Liliana in my yard. My opponent played a Sorin, Lord of Innistrad and made a dude. I ended up drawing a decay, I played a Liliana, bounced his Leovold, decay'd his token, made him sack his TNN and killed his Sorin. I am too lucky at this game sometimes.

    Round 3: Infect (2-1)

    Game 1: Killed everything in sight and got a wasteland + loam lock going early.

    Game 2: This game was insane, I was basically killing everything when I got the chance with my opponent slowly getting damage in. I was at 3-4 poison and any creature with a pump spell would have killed me. I had a golgari charm which I used when he used his first become immense, in response he played a 2nd one.

    Game 3: Same as game 1 where I just killed everything in sight.

    Round 4: Br Reanimator (2-1)

    Game 1: He showed 2 Chancellor at the start of the game. I kept a pretty slow hand with DRS, Loam, Goyf and a bunch of lands. In retrospect I should have just let my DRS go turn 1 and then try to loam to find my karakas. He went turn 2 Griselbrand and followed it up with a Chancellor.

    Game 2: I was lucky enough to get a leyline, confidant, mox and a karakas among the other lands in my land. I put in the leyline pregame and then played my confidant off a mox and a karakas. My opponent chuckled and said he probably was going to regret this then went dark ritual -> collective brutality with the -2/-2 and duress modes -> reanimate my confidant. He ended up hitting a bunch of his fatties with the confidant while beating me down while I was just drawing lands. I managed to get a goyf and a dryad arbor on the board. Me being the derp that I was thought I had him dead on the board so I killed the confidant and swung in for what I thought was lethal and ended up leaving him at 1. He dark ritualing out a wurmcoil engine, killed my arbor and ended up swinging with it the following turn. I used stronghold to put my dryad arbor back on top and blocking and wastelanding the arbor to prevent the lifegain. Opponent never expected that play and it ended up winning me the game. I think that if he had held back the wurmcoil engine he would have easily won the game.

    Game 3: He mulliganed to 5, and I mulliganed to 4 trying to find some sort of interaction. I ended up keeping a hand of 3 lands, edict and scryed a karakas to the top. He went turn 1 reanimate griselbrand -> draw 7 putting him to 5. I bounced it with karakas and then played a confidant the following turn. Opponent quickly conceded because he had not drawn anything relevant.

    Round 5: IDed with someone to get into top 8.

    So after top 8 was announced, the guy playing infect was 8th seed. He had to leave to take care of the baby so the 8th seed ended up being Aluren. I can beat infect easily but Aluren is a huge pain the ass. I'll openly admit that this is one matchup where I wish I had a white splash.

    Aluren (1-2)

    Game 1: I keep an okay hand but it doesn't have enough disruption to stop him. He plays nonstop strixes and I am unable to find removal spells for any of them. He then plays an aluren for value and ends up playing a bunch of dudes (including cavern harpy out), I draw a Pulse and kill the Aluren. On his turn he plays another Aluren and kills me with the combo.

    Game 2: Kill most of his dudes asap and get a Garruk active. He plays an Aluren for value and I end up putting a bunch of creatures into play including a scavenging ooze and quickly take over the game with Garruk + Goyf and Ooze.

    Game 3: Mulligan to 5 trying to find a hand that will interact with him somehow. I end up keeping a pretty slow 5 that basically has a turn 1 goyf and that is it and is pretty land light. I play a library the next turn and never end up finding additional lands. He find a powder keg and kills both my library and my goyf. That's about the extent of my play this game, he quickly takes over the game with a Leovold and then plays an Aluren in the following turn.


    tl;dr I need to convince my teammates to let me play GB trashcan at the SCG event next weekend.

  7. #7307
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    Re: [Deck] The Rock

    Quote Originally Posted by CptHaddock View Post
    I ended up continuing my streak of getting top 8 and then losing 1st round with nonpainter decks at the win a dual tournament, there were about 20 people there. My list is basically the one I posted a page back with 1 change, I added another maelstrom pulse to the main as i'm always used to seeing a bunch of random decks like Sylvan Plug and Nic Fit whenever I go to this tournament series.

    I went 4-0-1 in the swiss. My matches were as follows:

    Round 1: Shardless BUG (2-0)

    My opponent brought shardless agent to a rock fight, enough said. I originally thought he was on elves as that is what he normally plays and he thought that I was on painter. I'm not sure how the elves matchup is, I imagine it's bad though.

    Round 2: Bant splashing Leovold Stoneblade (2-1)

    Game 1: I killed his elf and then wastelanded him to concession.

    Game 2: I made the mistake of being a little greedy and getting a bayou instead of a basic and ended up getting punished by a series of wastelands and TNN + Jitte.

    Game 3: I got very lucky this match, I kept finding answers to my opponent's permanents at just the right moment but this was a game of haymaker after haymaker from both my opponent and I. I did have one kind of sweet play this game. My opponent had a Leovold and TNN on the table and the only thing I had was a board of an active Garruk (Flipped), a rec sage, a wolf token and a bunch of lands and moxes including karakas. I ended up sacking a wolf to get a e-witness to get back a Liliana in my yard. My opponent played a Sorin, Lord of Innistrad and made a dude. I ended up drawing a decay, I played a Liliana, bounced his Leovold, decay'd his token, made him sack his TNN and killed his Sorin. I am too lucky at this game sometimes.

    Round 3: Infect (2-1)

    Game 1: Killed everything in sight and got a wasteland + loam lock going early.

    Game 2: This game was insane, I was basically killing everything when I got the chance with my opponent slowly getting damage in. I was at 3-4 poison and any creature with a pump spell would have killed me. I had a golgari charm which I used when he used his first become immense, in response he played a 2nd one.

    Game 3: Same as game 1 where I just killed everything in sight.

    Round 4: Br Reanimator (2-1)

    Game 1: He showed 2 Chancellor at the start of the game. I kept a pretty slow hand with DRS, Loam, Goyf and a bunch of lands. In retrospect I should have just let my DRS go turn 1 and then try to loam to find my karakas. He went turn 2 Griselbrand and followed it up with a Chancellor.

    Game 2: I was lucky enough to get a leyline, confidant, mox and a karakas among the other lands in my land. I put in the leyline pregame and then played my confidant off a mox and a karakas. My opponent chuckled and said he probably was going to regret this then went dark ritual -> collective brutality with the -2/-2 and duress modes -> reanimate my confidant. He ended up hitting a bunch of his fatties with the confidant while beating me down while I was just drawing lands. I managed to get a goyf and a dryad arbor on the board. Me being the derp that I was thought I had him dead on the board so I killed the confidant and swung in for what I thought was lethal and ended up leaving him at 1. He dark ritualing out a wurmcoil engine, killed my arbor and ended up swinging with it the following turn. I used stronghold to put my dryad arbor back on top and blocking and wastelanding the arbor to prevent the lifegain. Opponent never expected that play and it ended up winning me the game. I think that if he had held back the wurmcoil engine he would have easily won the game.

    Game 3: He mulliganed to 5, and I mulliganed to 4 trying to find some sort of interaction. I ended up keeping a hand of 3 lands, edict and scryed a karakas to the top. He went turn 1 reanimate griselbrand -> draw 7 putting him to 5. I bounced it with karakas and then played a confidant the following turn. Opponent quickly conceded because he had not drawn anything relevant.

    Round 5: IDed with someone to get into top 8.

    So after top 8 was announced, the guy playing infect was 8th seed. He had to leave to take care of the baby so the 8th seed ended up being Aluren. I can beat infect easily but Aluren is a huge pain the ass. I'll openly admit that this is one matchup where I wish I had a white splash.

    Aluren (1-2)

    Game 1: I keep an okay hand but it doesn't have enough disruption to stop him. He plays nonstop strixes and I am unable to find removal spells for any of them. He then plays an aluren for value and ends up playing a bunch of dudes (including cavern harpy out), I draw a Pulse and kill the Aluren. On his turn he plays another Aluren and kills me with the combo.

    Game 2: Kill most of his dudes asap and get a Garruk active. He plays an Aluren for value and I end up putting a bunch of creatures into play including a scavenging ooze and quickly take over the game with Garruk + Goyf and Ooze.

    Game 3: Mulligan to 5 trying to find a hand that will interact with him somehow. I end up keeping a pretty slow 5 that basically has a turn 1 goyf and that is it and is pretty land light. I play a library the next turn and never end up finding additional lands. He find a powder keg and kills both my library and my goyf. That's about the extent of my play this game, he quickly takes over the game with a Leovold and then plays an Aluren in the following turn.


    tl;dr I need to convince my teammates to let me play GB trashcan at the SCG event next weekend.
    Grats on the finish, sorry you couldn't bring it home.

    Your issue with Aluren is that you don't really play any way to interact with the non-interactive decks. You added hymns to the sideboard last time, but still pretty much gave up on the unfair matchups.

    I would suggest removing the hymns and adding Lost Legacy as that card is bonkers in my board against a wide range of decks. It helps against miracles, reanimator, storm, shardless, Loam, lands, Aluren... and lots of other tier 2 decks.

    I prefer 6-7 main deck discard spells to at least have an attempt at slowing them down, but that is what you give up for the overwhelming power that is loam.

    I haven't been able to test the Bant TNN deck yet, how did it feel?

    It does seem like you boarded against your meta as you did have tons of hate for the reanimate deck.

    Have you tried encorperating Chalice of the Void into your list either main or side? Mox into Chalice for 1 is pretty bonkers.

    Maybe something like this:

    Lands (23)
    3 Barren Moor
    2 Tranquil Thicket
    4 Verdant Catacombs
    3 Misty Rainforest
    4 Wasteland
    4 Bayou
    2 Forest
    1 Swamp

    Loam Engine(12)
    4 Mox Diamond
    4 Life from the Loam
    4 Chalice of the Void

    Dudes(11)
    4 Dark Confidant
    4 Tarmogoyf
    3 Tireless Tracker

    Spells(14)
    4 Collective Brutality
    4 Abrupt Decay
    3 Fatal Push
    3 Lilliana of the Veil

    Sideboard(15)
    3 Lost Legacy
    3 Choke
    4 Krosan Grip
    3 Dismember
    2 Marsh Casulties

    But with your personal touches. Collective brutality most likely isn't good enough, but it is pretty nuts when you are just discarding lands.
    Last edited by lavafrogg; 02-12-2017 at 02:24 AM.
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    Re: [Deck] The Rock

    Quote Originally Posted by lavafrogg View Post
    Grats on the finish, sorry you couldn't bring it home.

    Your issue with Aluren is that you don't really play any way to interact with the non-interactive decks. You added hymns to the sideboard last time, but still pretty much gave up on the unfair matchups.

    I would suggest removing the hymns and adding Lost Legacy as that card is bonkers in my board against a wide range of decks. It helps against miracles, reanimator, storm, shardless, Loam, lands, Aluren... and lots of other tier 2 decks.

    I prefer 6-7 main deck discard spells to at least have an attempt at slowing them down, but that is what you give up for the overwhelming power that is loam.

    I haven't been able to test the Bant TNN deck yet, how did it feel?

    It does seem like you boarded against your meta as you did have tons of hate for the reanimate deck.
    Yeah I figure that most of my combo matchups are going to be awful and I am going to have to hope that they either mulligan to oblivion or I thoughtseize some key pieces and beat them down before they go off. I honestly completely forgot that lost legacy existed and I think that is probably a better solution then Hymn in the combo matchups. I also considered the 4 chalice in the sideboard inspired by the really old school aggro loam lists but I never got a chance to try that out. I think it's really just going to come down to retooling my sideboard, I think I have way too much stuff for matchups that I think are already pretty good.

    Not sure how I feel about the Bant TNN matchup, my opponent was playing the Reid Duke style of 8 mana dorks + TNN alongside SFM. He told me later that he was super worried about my loam engine since he wasn't playing any basics. I think for us it's just about keeping the board clean, if they ever land a TNN + some sort of equipment it's very easily going to take over the game just like they would in against any other fair deck. I wasn't really worried about Leovold, i'm fine with my opponents drawing a card if I basically "timewalk" with a Karakas. My opponents are drawing nonsense while i'm ancestraling with some combination of Loam, Confidant and Tracker.

  9. #7309
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    Re: [Deck] The Rock

    Quote Originally Posted by CptHaddock View Post
    Yeah I figure that most of my combo matchups are going to be awful and I am going to have to hope that they either mulligan to oblivion or I thoughtseize some key pieces and beat them down before they go off. I honestly completely forgot that lost legacy existed and I think that is probably a better solution then Hymn in the combo matchups. I also considered the 4 chalice in the sideboard inspired by the really old school aggro loam lists but I never got a chance to try that out. I think it's really just going to come down to retooling my sideboard, I think I have way too much stuff for matchups that I think are already pretty good.

    Not sure how I feel about the Bant TNN matchup, my opponent was playing the Reid Duke style of 8 mana dorks + TNN alongside SFM. He told me later that he was super worried about my loam engine since he wasn't playing any basics. I think for us it's just about keeping the board clean, if they ever land a TNN + some sort of equipment it's very easily going to take over the game just like they would in against any other fair deck. I wasn't really worried about Leovold, i'm fine with my opponents drawing a card if I basically "timewalk" with a Karakas. My opponents are drawing nonsense while i'm ancestraling with some combination of Loam, Confidant and Tracker.
    I'm so glad you got mana base wins! Playing 4 wastelands and a stable mana base is a huge reason to play straight GB, silly greedy 3 color lists.

    Chalice is always a thing, especially when your goal is to start at 2CC cards, it will be good against some... bad against others.

    I do have a concern about equipment but Decay answers almost everything(Batterskull) and a 3/1 will usually be playing blocker for goyfs in most cases.

    On Lost Legacy- soooooo goooodddd!!! Some decks run 1-2 trump cards over rock.... bye! I bring it in against all combo and control matchups. Part of the reason I love my Noxious Revivals.

    I am playing tomorrow night and will post results as soon as I can.
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  10. #7310
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    Re: [Deck] The Rock

    Quote Originally Posted by lavafrogg View Post

    Lands (23)
    3 Barren Moor
    2 Tranquil Thicket
    4 Verdant Catacombs
    3 Misty Rainforest
    4 Wasteland
    4 Bayou
    2 Forest
    1 Swamp

    Loam Engine(12)
    4 Mox Diamond
    4 Life from the Loam
    4 Chalice of the Void

    Dudes(11)
    4 Dark Confidant
    4 Tarmogoyf
    3 Tireless Tracker

    Spells(14)
    4 Collective Brutality
    4 Abrupt Decay
    3 Fatal Push
    3 Lilliana of the Veil

    Sideboard(15)
    3 Lost Legacy
    3 Choke
    4 Krosan Grip
    3 Dismember
    2 Marsh Casulties

    But with your personal touches. Collective brutality most likely isn't good enough, but it is pretty nuts when you are just discarding lands.
    I really like this deck. Wish I had diamond to try it out
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    I've been taking shitty brews and tier 2 decks to tournaments and losing with them for years now. Welcome to the club. We meet for cocktails after round 6.
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    Top quality german restraint there.

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  11. #7311
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    Re: [Deck] The Rock

    Quote Originally Posted by Megadeus View Post
    I really like this deck. Wish I had diamond to try it out
    I love me some Mox Diamond and Life from the Loam....

    Got to play a 3 rounder tonight to a 2-1 finish.

    Match 1- ANT 0-2

    Lost on turn 2.

    Lost on turn 1.

    Fun times.

    Match 2- Grixis Delver 2-1

    Game 1 - I take a game loss as all the cards i did not sideboard in round 1, I shuffled into my library...

    Game 2 - Wasteland- Noxious Revival- Wasteland in addition to removal for his turn 1 delver was GG.

    Game 3 - Bob gets bolted, Goyf gets countered and Tireless Tracker goes ham.

    Match 3 - Faerie Stompy

    Game 1 - Bob and Goyf get going quick as the opponent has mana issues.

    Game 2 - I mistakenly sideboard out removal, thinking he was on a bigger ramp deck and quickly lose to Effret and Drake beats.

    Game 3 - In the controversial play of the game, he brings in Winter Orb(thinking I was a big mana Nic Fit deck) I have an easier time than he does with my 1-2cc spells against his jaces and ancient tombs. Deathrite Shaman got 2 Jace kills throughout the course of the game as I wasn't really drawing lands.. but I eventually hit a pocket of lands and got to play a goyf/confidant that he couldn't deal with.

    Noxious Revival got me an extra cabal therapy in game 1, countered a DRS mana activation against Grixis and I think they came out against Stompy. I was super impressed by the Tireless Tracker as usual and my last few card slots are still being tested.

    I loved being able to play basics in almost all of my matches. I never once worried about wastelands.

    Issue still being Noxious vs Crop Rotation vs GSZ.....
    Last edited by lavafrogg; 02-14-2017 at 02:47 AM.
    "eggs... why'd it have to be eggs"

  12. #7312

    Re: [Deck] The Rock

    I think if you want GSZ, you're better off with Maverick or 4C Loam.

    In this, Noxious Revival does seem good to push through more haymaker plays where discard falls short (counteract removal), and it runs enough card advantage (Bob, Tracker) to make up for the disadvantage. Being able to revive game winners like Choke, Sylvan Library, Lost Legacy, Diabolic Edict seems strong.

    In that line, would Winter Orb be worthwhile? It may be too similar to Choke but can come down faster and is good against Lands. Also nice on turn 1 through Diamond.
    Quote Originally Posted by Acclimation View Post
    I about died from laughter when I was watching my feature match and the commentators called Tinfins a difficult and challenging deck.

    I'm not saying it's the easiest deck to play, but the plan is so linear that I could probably get white girl wasted and still beat people with the deck.
    Quote Originally Posted by maharis View Post
    Imagine the trauma of a man who has seen Mom into Crusader enough to mainboard three Cabal Pits.

  13. #7313

    Re: [Deck] The Rock

    Hello all,

    I saw the recent loam stompy list and fooled around with the following list below. I liked the idea of using loam and lands to use with collective brutality and Lilliana. I am not sure if brutality is worth the slots or if hymn is just better. I like Flayer as another threat. I am also wondering if Fatal Push should be the Dismember spots in the board. Just thinking out loud here.


    4 Tarmogoyf
    4 Dark Confidant
    4 Grim Flayer
    2 Tireless Tracker
    4 Hymn to Tourach or Collective Brutality
    4 Abrupt Decay
    3 Life from the Loam
    4 Chalice of the Void
    4 Mox Diamond
    3 Liliana of the Veil
    1 Maelstrom Pulse
    1 Garruk Relentless
    1 Sylvan Library

    3 Barren Moor
    2 Tranquil Thicket
    4 Verdant Catacombs
    2 Wooded Foothills
    1 Volrath’s Stronghold
    4 Wateland
    4 Bayou
    2 Forest
    1 Swamp

    Sb:
    4 Leyline of the Void
    4 Dissmember or Flex Spots (if I have brutality as a 4 of in the main this could be 4 hymn in the board)
    2 Marsh Casualties or Toxic Deluge or Golgari Charm
    3 Choke
    2 Pithing Needle

  14. #7314
    Member
    lavafrogg's Avatar
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    Re: [Deck] The Rock

    Quote Originally Posted by Claymore View Post
    I think if you want GSZ, you're better off with Maverick or 4C Loam.

    In this, Noxious Revival does seem good to push through more haymaker plays where discard falls short (counteract removal), and it runs enough card advantage (Bob, Tracker) to make up for the disadvantage. Being able to revive game winners like Choke, Sylvan Library, Lost Legacy, Diabolic Edict seems strong.

    In that line, would Winter Orb be worthwhile? It may be too similar to Choke but can come down faster and is good against Lands. Also nice on turn 1 through Diamond.
    Noxious Revival has been pretty boss so far, the interaction in the early game with Wasteland/fetches is huge as it ensures you hut your land drops. Mid to late game it is just a vampiric tutor, which is nice.

    Winter orb might be a very strong option against big mana decks, this deck doesn't do anything real bad to break the symettery of the card but when you want to play goyfs and they want to play Jace...

    Lambert- brutality was just an idea. Loam lists are most likely better off playing swords to plowshares/push as they curdle pretty hard with their mana already. Tireless tracker should also be at least a 3 of as he is so so so so good.

    Flayer is really good until your opponent starts playing creatures, if you can get early delirium he is better, but I don't know what the average delirium turn is.

    Edit-

    New List after my last showing-

    Creatures(15)
    4 Tarmogoyf
    4 Dark Confidant
    4 Deathrite Shaman
    3 Tireless Tracker

    Discard(8)
    3 Thoughtsieze
    2 Cabal Therapy
    3 Hymn to Tourach

    Removal(7)
    3 Fatal Push
    4 Abrupt Decay

    Card Selection(7)
    3 Sylvan Library
    1 Life from the Loam
    3 Noxious Revival

    Planeswalkers(2)
    1 Lilliana of the Veil
    1 Garruk Relentless

    Lands(21)
    2 Swamps
    2 Forests
    3 Bayou
    4 Verdant Catacombs
    3 Misty Rainforest
    4 Wasteland
    1 Tranquil Thicket
    2 Barren Moor

    Sideboard:
    3 Choke
    3 Lost Legacy
    1 Dismember
    1 Diabolic Edict
    2 Pithing Needle
    1 Krosan Grip
    1 Marsh Casuties
    1 Engineered Explosives
    1 Nihil Spellbomb
    1 Hymn to Tourach


    I added three cycle lands to be able to draw the Noxious Revival target immediately and also to combo with the Life from the Loam late game. I never want to go full loam/dredge mode but drawing 3 in mid-late game can be game breaking in and of itself.

    Also, I cut the 61st card I didn't know I was running.... math is hard....
    Last edited by lavafrogg; 02-15-2017 at 01:09 AM.
    "eggs... why'd it have to be eggs"

  15. #7315
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    damionblackgear's Avatar
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    Re: [Deck] The Rock

    Quote Originally Posted by lavafrogg View Post
    If I wanted to go bigger, I would pick another planeswalker, possibly a second Garruk or Lilliana. We still have to worry about other removal so having your big 4-5 drop sent farming is pretty bad.
    That's fair. I'm still wrapping my head around Tracker being amazing. Is it because it's a cleanup crew when you're in a strong position or that it digs you out later? I haven't had an opportunity to try it so I have to ask. I trust I'm missing something and I may not get it until I get a chance to try it.

    Another thought, since the cycle lands are CIPTs, do you need the item right then or could you use a man-land? Just thinking if you don't need the card right then, maybe some land beatings would be better.
    Tinkering with some crafting theory. Here

  16. #7316
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    Re: [Deck] The Rock

    Quote Originally Posted by damionblackgear View Post
    That's fair. I'm still wrapping my head around Tracker being amazing. Is it because it's a cleanup crew when you're in a strong position or that it digs you out later? I haven't had an opportunity to try it so I have to ask. I trust I'm missing something and I may not get it until I get a chance to try it.
    Tracker is a bit of both and that is what makes her really good. She's basically a build your own knight that instead of getting CA from knight's crop rotation ability actually just gives you a card. Basically all your lands drops in the mid game turn into additional draw spells in the late game, and all your land drops in the late game into redraws. The only real setup that she needs is for you to make land drops which really isn't much setup in the first place.

  17. #7317
    Land Destruction Enthusiast
    Megadeus's Avatar
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    Re: [Deck] The Rock

    Any thought to running a cradle? With tracker it's pretty nuts to easily break clues, and with stoneforge it let's you cast and equip in the same turn much easier
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Cheese View Post
    I've been taking shitty brews and tier 2 decks to tournaments and losing with them for years now. Welcome to the club. We meet for cocktails after round 6.
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    Top quality german restraint there.

    If I'm at the point where I'm rage quitting, you can bet your kransky that I'm calling everyone involved a cunt.

  18. #7318
    Member
    lavafrogg's Avatar
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    Re: [Deck] The Rock

    Quote Originally Posted by CptHaddock View Post
    Tracker is a bit of both and that is what makes her really good. She's basically a build your own knight that instead of getting CA from knight's crop rotation ability actually just gives you a card. Basically all your lands drops in the mid game additional draw spells in the late game, and all your land drops in the late game into redraws. The only real setup that she needs is for you to make land drops which really isn't much setup in the first place.
    Knight never actually got card advantage, unless people were blindly swinging into her, she gave you control of a game and shattered your own manabase.

    Tracker should always at least cantrip, play her after turn 3 with land in hand, and if she is allowed to live will draw an insane amount of cards. With the deck running goyfs and bobs the coast is usually clear for her to get a few land drops inns by then it is too late.

    Additional bonus includes getting huge and not being graveyard dependent.

    The cycle lands are still part of the noxious revival experiment, I could see man lands doing good in the right meta.
    "eggs... why'd it have to be eggs"

  19. #7319

    Re: [Deck] The Rock

    Quote Originally Posted by lavafrogg View Post
    Noxious Revival has been pretty boss so far, the interaction in the early game with Wasteland/fetches is huge as it ensures you hut your land drops. Mid to late game it is just a vampiric tutor, which is nice.

    Winter orb might be a very strong option against big mana decks, this deck doesn't do anything real bad to break the symettery of the card but when you want to play goyfs and they want to play Jace...

    Lambert- brutality was just an idea. Loam lists are most likely better off playing swords to plowshares/push as they curdle pretty hard with their mana already. Tireless tracker should also be at least a 3 of as he is so so so so good.

    Flayer is really good until your opponent starts playing creatures, if you can get early delirium he is better, but I don't know what the average delirium turn is.

    Edit-

    New List after my last showing-

    Creatures(15)
    4 Tarmogoyf
    4 Dark Confidant
    4 Deathrite Shaman
    3 Tireless Tracker

    Discard(8)
    3 Thoughtsieze
    2 Cabal Therapy
    3 Hymn to Tourach

    Removal(7)
    3 Fatal Push
    4 Abrupt Decay

    Card Selection(7)
    3 Sylvan Library
    1 Life from the Loam
    3 Noxious Revival

    Planeswalkers(2)
    1 Lilliana of the Veil
    1 Garruk Relentless

    Lands(21)
    2 Swamps
    2 Forests
    3 Bayou
    4 Verdant Catacombs
    3 Misty Rainforest
    4 Wasteland
    1 Tranquil Thicket
    2 Barren Moor

    Sideboard:
    3 Choke
    3 Lost Legacy
    1 Dismember
    1 Diabolic Edict
    2 Pithing Needle
    1 Krosan Grip
    1 Marsh Casuties
    1 Engineered Explosives
    1 Nihil Spellbomb
    1 Hymn to Tourach


    I added three cycle lands to be able to draw the Noxious Revival target immediately and also to combo with the Life from the Loam late game. I never want to go full loam/dredge mode but drawing 3 in mid-late game can be game breaking in and of itself.

    Also, I cut the 61st card I didn't know I was running.... math is hard....
    Regarding the 3 Noxious Revival. Can you recall situations where the card disadvantage or the game state situation made it obviously bad? In my mind, having an opening hand with 2 Noxious Revival would be an auto mull, whereas 2 unearth would be keep able bc of its cycling ability.

    I like that it returns any card to the top of the library versus just creatures to play. I also like that it encourages us to play Tracker. Unearth doesn't seem eternal witness but it certainly seems to push us towards witness, Therapy and more lilianas, which creates many 3 cmc flips to Bob.

  20. #7320
    Member
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    Re: [Deck] The Rock

    Quote Originally Posted by ClimbGneiss View Post
    Regarding the 3 Noxious Revival. Can you recall situations where the card disadvantage or the game state situation made it obviously bad? In my mind, having an opening hand with 2 Noxious Revival would be an auto mull, whereas 2 unearth would be keep able bc of its cycling ability.

    I like that it returns any card to the top of the library versus just creatures to play. I also like that it encourages us to play Tracker. Unearth doesn't seem eternal witness but it certainly seems to push us towards witness, Therapy and more lilianas, which creates many 3 cmc flips to Bob.
    Noxious revival has a lot of play in the early game to where the right revivalx2 hand could be really good which is part of the reason I like the card.

    You have immense Wasteland protection, you get to double up on hymn/cabal for card advantage and if you follow up with a Dark Confidant/Library/tracker you are in great shape. Especially early when engines are not online, buying back a force of willed bob is still even in cards and most likely a pretty big blow out. Noxious Revival has been pretty bonkers overall.

    Most decks have minimal card advantage so your bob/tracker/Loam/Lilliana/garruk/Library will be more than enough to make up the CA.

    Unearth will cost 2 to draw a card... very meh, actually unearthing a creature is for mid game and unearth doesn't save you from wastelands or even help against combo.
    "eggs... why'd it have to be eggs"

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