Herzog has 3x if I'm not mistaken
On another note, I beat Junk Souls with Maverick today. He didn't have KotR or Goyf and that was the real weakness of the deck. I punished him with Mom/Thalia/KotR against his Liliana/Sculler/DRS. If he went more traditional "discard + big green guys" I think he could have put up a better fight. It's another issue decks in the format are suffering and part of the reason I'm responding to this post. I'm all for "experimentation", but people should also move back towards "consistency". Non-blue decks running singletons just isn't where the meta should be. I think we should embrace running 3x and 4x things again. A deck full of random bullets only goes so far. You can theory-craft and next-level-tech all day...but when you lose your 1x [insert cute answer to a caddy corner situation], you simply lose.
His sculler was way stronger than I thought it would be...unfort that was his strongest attacker outside of SFM + equips. He also didn't run Hymns and couldn't capitalize on early discard.
I played in a monthly 1K today with the following list.
4x Deathrite Shaman
1x Sylvan Safekeeper
1x Scavenging Ooze
4x Stoneforge Mystic
1x Gaddock Teeg
2x Lingering Souls
4x Knight of the Reliquary
4x Green Sun's Zenith
3x Thoughtseize
3x Cabal Therapy
3x Swords to Plowshares
4x Abrupt Decay
1x Umezawa's Jitte
1x Sword of Fire and Ice
1x Batterskull
4x Verdant Catacombs
4x Windswept Heath
2x Savannah
2x Bayou
1x Scrubland
1x Forest
1x Dryad Arbor
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4x Wasteland
1x Thespian's Stage
1x Dark Depths
1x The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
60 Cards
1x Tower of the Magistrate
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Cabal Pit
2x Zealous Persecution
2x Krosan Grip
2x Pithing Needle
2x Gaddock Teeg
1x Qasali Pridemage
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Darkblast
1x Nihil Spellbomb
Heavily inspired by sdematt's list 2 pages back. I didn't want to push the Dark Depths plan as hard as that list (no Hexmages, Loams, or Living Wish), and I wanted a second mainboard ass-beater. A Stoneforge package is really appealing to me right now because of all the sweet equips vs U/R and DnT, and she doesn't require a graveyard (I freaking hate when RiP colds my board, even when playing answers to it).
I usually go with Goyf and Bob, but since I wanted to have a Waste-em-out and Dark Depths plan, Knight took the yard-dependant-big-dude slot. With U/R Delver shooting up in popularity because of Ancestral Recall's unbanning, I didn't want to play Bob either because of the life loss is not good when they start repeatedly bolting your face. Hopefully U/R gets slaughtered at the GP, and people stop playing it so much, because I really, really like playing Bob.
I often run 61, and pondered a Qasali Pridemage in the main. I was reading some articles this past week about the logic and viability of 61+, and decided to be disciplined and stick to 60.
The sideboard was thrown together this morning from my pile of sweet Junk sideboard cards. With 4 Wastes, a Dark Depths, a Stage, and a Tabernacle making only 23 lands, Cabal Pit was shoved in the side. That card is sweet, but I figured I'd just bring it in vs. creature decks. Tower of the Magistrate is always in the Knight wheelhouse, and I ran it today expecting some DnT and possibly some UWR. Bog always belongs in the 75 when you're playing Knight. More Teegs and Krosan Grip for Miracles and other stuff, Darkblast and Zealous Persecution are sweet vs unflipped Delvers, Pyromancers, Lavamancers, and the entire DnT deck. Qasali didn't make the main, so he's in the board. Needle is always good to have, and a 2nd Scooze and a Spellbomb round out the yard hate.
Last week I was stoked about Chains again... and just like last time I thought it would be cool, it was very bad. It sounds so sweet in theory, but I'm starting to agree with Tescrin in that it might just be expensive garbage. I think I might unload 'em at the GP and get some shiny cards.
THE GAMES!
Round 1 vs. DnT
I played this guy a week or 2 ago at a weekly, and his list is sweet. He plays Leonin Arbiter, and Ghost Quarter and he's been doing really well with them. Game 1 grinds on, but eventually I die to Thalia and triple Arbiter backed up by 2 MoMs. That really jacked up my Knight plans. In game 2 I Zealous Persecution away Mindcensor + Thalia and start beating in. He plays 2 Revokers, naming Deathrite and Liliana. I Swords the Deathrite one and finish him off with Lingering Souls, Deathrite, and Knight. Game 3 he gets kinda screwed, suck on 1 Wasteland and a Vial. He's got 1 or 2 STPs, but no white mana for quite a while, and I win.
Record 1/0
Round 2 vs. U/R Delver
He goes crazy with Pyromancer, Swiftspear and Delver both games. In game 2 I got a Batterskull down, but it gets bolted after blocking. I flood out a bit, return it, and redeploy it, but get dropped to exactly zero on the next turn. Ancestral Recall is a helluva card, and I am kinda salty.
Record 1/1
Round 3 vs. Jund
After much back and forth, we each take a game. He gets stuck on Wasteland and Bayou in game 3, and I drop a Needle for Liliana. I take a few hits from a 5/6 Goyf, but I'm attacking with a Knight with Jitte. He finds an Ancient Grudge and takes out Jitte and Needle, leaving him with 1 card in hand. For some reason I still have a Thoughtseize in my deck, and take his last card which is Liliana. Knight becomes too big to deal with, and he's dead.
Record 2/1
Round 4 vs. Deathblade
I mull to 5 on the play, and keep Scooze, Deathrite, 3 lands. He STPs Deathrite, but Scooze sticks. He Stoneforges for Batterskull, and I Therapy it. I waste his white source, and somehow Scooze goes the entire distance. In game2 , he STPs a couple of my guys, but I end up with an active Knight. I could have gone for the Dark Depths plan, but if he had found another STP that would be terrible. Instead I take what I see as the safer and find 3 Wastelands to put him down to a single Underground Sea, then bash him to death with Knight.
Record 3/1
Round 5 vs. Mono Red Painter.
In game 1 I get Mooned, and scoop the turn before can activate Grindstone. I think he only saw Verdant Catacombs, Forest, Wasteland, Green Sun and Deathrite because he says, "How's Elves been today?" I say, "Pretty good, its gotten me to 3/1, so that's cool." In game 2 I get Needle on Grindstone, Krosan Grip and Abrupt Decay for his Blood Moon, and Magus of the Moon. Then I get Stoneforge Elf, Qasali Elfmage, and Elf of the Reliquary and kill him. In game 3 I make a 20/20 Marit Elf, and kill him. Elves are sweet.
Record 4/1
Round 6 vs A dude who I think is probably on U/R Delver.
An ID locks us both in for Top 8, so we draw.
-------------------------
Quarterfinals vs. Goblins
I don't recognize this guy, but his deck is lying face up showing me a Goblin Matron on top. He's 3rd seed, so he plays. He goes Vial pass, I go Deathrite pass. He goes Piledriver pass, I pass, and Abrupt Decay the Vial on his upkeep because he didn't Vial in a Lackey on my turn. He plays a Warchief and bashes for 5. I play a Knight of the Reliquary who is a 3/3, tapping all my land, and leaving Deathrite untapped. On his turn 4, he plays a Matron for 2 mana, finds a Gempalm Incinerator. He taps out to Incinerate my Knight, but I use Deathrite on his fetchland and STP his Warchief, so Knight only takes 2. I make another Knight, and after a turn with their powers combined, they are... Captain Marit Lage.
In game 2 he gets a sweet old school Goblins draw. I think I'm not in the worst shape, but he has a Warchief in play. He ticks Vial up to 4, vials in a Ringleader, and hits 2 Piledrivers and a Chieftain, casts them all that turn, and I'm super dead.
Game 3 goes very long, he Ringleaders at least twice, once hitting double Incinerator + Matron, but my Jitte on Souls with Sylvan Safekeeper backup hang in there. He gets a Siege Gang, but I kill it with something, and I poke for several turns with a Jitte'd Soul, keeping just enough counters to kill Warchiefs and Chieftains when they show up. Eventually he swings for what could be lethal with 3 Siege Gang tokens, a Matron, and a Ringleader, but play Zealous Persecution which wipes his board. I win with Jitte'd Soul the next turn.
Semifinals vs. UWR Delver
It's the guy I drew with in Round 6. I'm higher seed so I get to play. 2 very longs games go by where we both get Stoneforge for Batterskull going. We are trading guys for removal, but I end up getting the win after 2 very long games.
Finals vs. U/R Delver
It's the guy who beat me in Round 2. He's higher seed, but we agree to split, and we are both $300 store credit richer.
Bleh I'm tired of typing.
Alright, well, I know I just posted a page or two ago and I've done very little to change said list but as SCG: Minneapolis starts up in about 8 hours I figure I'd post the list I finalized on. I'll do my best to take notes so I can write up a report afterwards:
x4 Verdant Catacombs
x2 Windswept Heath
x2 Marsh Flats
x3 Scrubland
x2 Bayou
x1 Savannah
x3 Wasteland
x2 Swamp
x1 Plains
x1 Stirring Wildwood
x1 Dryad Arbor
x4 Thoughtseize
x2 Cabal Therapy
x4 Swords to Plowshare
x2 Green Sun's Zenith
x3 Abrupt Decay
x2 Sylvan Library
x2 Lingering Souls
x2 Liliana of the Veil
x1 Umezawa's Jitte
x1 Batterskull
x2 Tarmogoyf
x1 Scavenging Ooze
x4 Deathrite Shaman
x4 Dark Confidant
x4 Stoneforge Mystic
Nothing too out of the ordinary. I'm still contemplating the Wildwood. I've enjoyed having it but it is completely understandable why I would be better off not running it. I'm glad I remembered Ooze as he's a highly relevant threat that provides GY control AND gifts me with life.
x2 Enlightened Tutor
x1 Oblivion Ring
x1 Sword of Fire and Ice
x2 Choke
x1 Engineered Plague
x1 Engineered Explosives
x1 Phyrexian Revoker (will try to trade for a Pithing Needle)
x2 Rest in Peace
x2 Krosan Grip
x2 Gaddock Teeg
Well, I'd love to talk more about my list but it's pretty straight forward and I'm due to get up in about 7 hours so I should probably hit the sack. May all your top decks be fortuitous!
Forlorn
How to play Belcher:
Step 1) Draw 7 cards.
Step 2) Throw said 7 cards onto the table while making a "BLAH!" sound.
Step 3) Hold up hands quizically and ask: "Do I win?"
Decks
Enchantress
Dragon Stompy
Rock
UG Madness/Thresh (Pauper)
@T-101 Congrats!
I played a lousy 2-2-1 tonight vs. Elves (1-2), Burn (2-0), Elves (2-0), Burn (1-2), Zombardment (1-1-1)
First elves could've been a win and sent me up to better MUs, but I IoK'd the wrong card (Symbiote instead of Ranger) and he got a T2 Progenitus. UGh.
Ran a pair of Orzhov Pontiff, and IMO; he's the real deal. In the Elves of course he board wiped them a couple of times. Against Burn he killed a couple of grim lavamancers and carried a sword. Against Zombies he killed a couple of bobs and a couple of zombies (and again, carried a sword.)
I'm going back to Top. Had my Libraries blown up every time and got double library a couple times.. I like having reliable manipulation and the versatility of being a psuedo-cantrip.
"Props" - racing a Craterhoof with no friends, plowing a KotR to beat Burn M2G1, Pontiff killing hordes of elves 3-4 times.
"Slops"* - Mull to 3 for lands against Burn M2G3. (REALLY DECK?) MUs were weird. Taking the wrong target from an Elf god hand (had Teeg in hand too.)
*got this from Bed Decks Palyer. Sorry fer plagurgasms
So I had a pretty terrible Eternal Weekend, going 0-4-1 and really only playing the last round because I was waiting for a friend who is local to show up so we could go to the bar and talk about anything but Magic. Ha.
My matches were Ru Cruise Burn (volcs only for cruise) 1-2, Deathblade 0-2, UR delver 1-1-1, Deathblade 1-2, Miracles 0-2. I played the last list I posted with Knights instead of Lilianas. I added a Bog and a Karakas as well. I lost the die roll in my first two matches, won in the third, lost the fourth, and didn't note what happened in the 5th. I played 2 Liliana in the sideboard instead of Bridge and EE.
In match 1, I lost game 3 at exactly 3 life to a top-decked bolt. I was wondering if I net a loss of life by sequencing poorly. After winning game 2, I on the draw kept Forest, Heath, STP, Sylvan, Canonist, and SoFI. I played Heath and passed. He suspended a rift bolt. I fetched for basic plains (PoP was a real card in this match), played my forest, and decided to play Sylvan instead of Canonist. My reasoning was that the Canonist was just going to eat the rift bolt anyway and I wanted to be able to dig earlier for answers. He Bolted me and suspended another. Luck is on my side! I found a fetch, played my Canonist, and passed. In his upkeep he riftbolted me, then read canonist, then passed. In my upkeep, he Smashed canonist. I responded by Swordsing it. At the end of the game, knowing I was at exactly 3, I wondered if I actually lost life by not playing Canonist first, making him Rift Bolt it and then having no targets for his Smash. Though eventually I would've played an artifact, I might have gained an extra turn and forced him to kill a DRS or something.
In match 2, I mulled on the draw to fetch, wasteland, double thoughtseize and two other cards, then drew Thoughtseize. In game 2 I made an aggressive play to fetch Dryad Arbor end of his turn 1 after he Pondered. I played Library off a basic plains and he forced it. Then he swordsed Arbor. I had two other lands, but they were both Bayou and he found double wasteland off Brainstorm then played Stoneforge into Skull. My feeling was that he wasn't pressuring the board and I wanted to get a creature down early so I could stick a sword to it. That might have been wrong but I really wanted to go for it before he got some bombs down. The fact that a four-color deck can play double wasteland is a testament to the power of Brainstorm.
In match 3, I got a warning for looking at extra cards when in the midst of resolving Library I knocked a third card off the top when putting two back. My opponent and the judge were both calm in resolving the error. In the midst of a tough time for the game — and especially given that we were all cranky after the very late start — that was nice.
Match 4 was fun. He won game 1, I Knight-wasted him out game 2, and in game 3 I needed to topdeck any creature to win (he had a batterskull, but I had swords of F&F and F&I on board and he had an empty hand) but I did not get there.
In match 5, dejected and exhausted (I woke up at 5 to leave NYC for Philly, then we had the notorious delay), I for the first time since I started playing legacy seriously neglected to count my sideboard before the match. And so when I GSZ'd for 2 to find my MD Teeg and it wasn't there, I called the judge on myself. I got a game loss, and we went to game 2. It wasn't going terrible, but I conceded early when I saw my friend wandering the room, dropped, and let my opponent move on.
Variance and tempo were much more important than I expected. I was 3-1-1 on the play in my first four rounds. (I honestly don't remember who won the die roll in the Miracles match). I will concede that I might have made a crucial play error in going for Arbor early in game 2 vs. Deathblade, but I pretty much only lost to exactly STP & double Wasteland.
The meta you saw on stream was no joke. It was dominated by the blue-red Delver decks. There was more Deathblade than I expected, it was a popular opponent that my group saw and they weren't all in the 0-x brackets like me, haha.
I know it's a depressing report but hopefully now you will all remember to count your sideboards before your matches.
What lands did you take out for Karakas and Bog, and did you ever add a second Green Sun's Zenith?
How did you board against the R/u Burn that Cannonist was even in the deck to be in that scenario (didn't make a difference, btw)? Burn does not care about Cannonist. He has no reason to ever kill it except if it becomes something more than a Grizzly Bear. He has nothing to gain by killing that Cannonist. It's no threat. It doesn't prevent him from doing anything. Without Liliana, Duress, Inquisition, or Hymn, you have no relevant discard that can take advantage of a swamped hand. He can take his time and grind you down without a care in the world because his clock is still faster than yours. He can still suspend Rift Bolt into suspended Rift Bolt. He can still Lava Spike on his turn and Lightning Bolt you on your turn. And, at any point, he can Sear it or Smash it.
Fetching up Dryad Arbor was an enormous mistake. Unless you have a Sword active and ready or are doing some cute body trick, there's no reason to fetch up Dryad Arbor. You should even think twice before digging it up with Green Sun's Zenith.
I know Arbor was a mistake. My plan was to get my guy down while holding up STP. And it worked: I killed a DRS the same turn. Him finding double waste after killing Arbor was pretty lucky.
I think I took out Bob and Thoughtseize and brought in Canonist, Grip, Teeg, Liliana x2 and Spellbomb x2. Canonist is as much a warm body as it is an attempt to slow them down. If I play Bob there, I surely lose anyway. It's a bad matchup for us no matter what you do.
I took out a Bayou and a Wasteland for the utlity lands. I didn't add a GSZ but I wish I had. In fact, I toyed with cutting Bob entirely before the tournament and adding 2 GSZ and a Kitchen Finks. I had a feeling I was going to miss lifegain and I certainly did. Batterskull, one of the lifegain swords, even something like Basilisk Collar would've been nice to have access to.
I really liked Knight though, when I had her in play she dominated. The Mav deck that top-8'd was a good choice for the day.
Burn is a bad match-up, but this is not correct.
Losing life off of Dark Confidant is not exceptionally relevant when you consider the advantages him. Your only goal is to present a clock. By replacing Dark Confidant with Gaddock Teeg and Ethersworn Cannonist and Krosan Grip, you eliminate your win condition. The average life lost for your deck per Dark Confidant reveal is 1.13. You have the potential to lose more off of fetch lands.
I'll second that. I took some number of bobs out for Elves but that's because I had 3 Deluge, 3 Teeg, 2 Cage, 1 TS. Bob wants a long game and I felt the Deluge anti-synergy was too heavy*. Aside from combo games where you have too much to side in, I'd always leave him in. Even then, usually in combo I have stuff that's more dead since Bob draws you interaction.
[*Again, i only feel that way given that it was Elves and I'd be Deluging whenever it seemed opportune (which is basically any time 2+ elves are on board.) I did something like -1 Lily, -3 KotR, -SoLaS, X other things (one time was library since I was blown out the first match by reclamation sage eating 2 libraries with me never seeing a benefit..) and -X bob as whatever was left.
Normally I'd leave Bob in next to Deluge since he'll get CA before you Deluge anyway]
Swinging for 2 or killing a goblin guide is a thing too.
@maharis
Maverick is well positioned I think. it disrupts so well while trumping threats with KotR and surviving removal spam with Mom that it'll probably make a come back while people are screwing around with Cruise. Miracles has to be pushed out by other decks if we expect to see more Maverick/Junk though.
Played a fun bit tonight for practice, going what I'd call 2-1.
S&T - 1-2
G1 - I have a strong hand of discard pieces and am unsure what he's on. I pick his hand apart but find no good clock.
G2 - I he S&T's and I have a Thalia on board. I put SoLaS down banking on griselbrand and it half-works. Had I not equipped I could've had enough mana for decay; but I was figuring he hadn't mooned yet so I must be safe. He moons, my Lily and Decay are stuck in hand. Life is sad.
G3 - (this isn't a tournament) He has a greedy keep and is punished for it. It almost pays off when he sneaks for Gris + Emmy, but I let him sac 6 of my things since I have an equipped sculler and Knight. I bounce to save my life total knowing that he's low enough he can't get through karakas + swarm.
Team America - 2-0
G1 - He has a strong start and I keep a weaker hand; but he can only keep a DRS on the table. Eventually I have too many bombs. No cruising today.
G2 - Super slow/grindy. I have to force him to kill a couple scullers by taking removal so he slowly spends it all. After that I go double DRS to pressure his cruise. He kills one, forces a Jitte, and maybe something else to finally cruise. He cruises at least twice, maybe three times this game; but I have Lily after the first one and grind him down. Eventually I land bob and am pushing through grindy beats.
D&T - 1-0 (shop was closing)
G1 - I TS and see he's D&T. Take BSK and have a Pontiff in hand. OH YES. I durdle around and almost screw myself getting so greedy with the blowout; but eventually it lands as a 3-for-1. I bob for about a hundred turns before my board presence is able to go through Thalia efficiently.
I mostly post this because this is my third cruise match; and they finally casted it (multiple times!) but I was fine. Lily is fantastic if you make them tap out for cruise. He's +1 CA when she drops, gets a card they just drew, and if he lives another turn you've already tied cruise. I was enjoying that the discard in the deck wasn't dead in the mid game. I think cruise hinders TA a little bit since they can't actively DRS your health down if they want cruise to be live when drawn. He said he had been practicing with it quite a bit; I just think cruise isn't enough to turn Delver decks into a problem for us.
Play of the night? Fetched to bait a stifle and then played SFM right after. He basically had to stifle it given the hidden information he was playing around (and he probably felt great after that cruise!) but SFM forced him to use the decay on the Jitte and helped cancel the CA/gas cruise tried to get him.
Where we all at, gents?
-Matt
Here's the list I'll probably play in NJ:
4 DRS
4 Bob
4 SFM
2 Ooze
3 Lingering Souls
3 liliana
4 abrupt decay
3 StP
4 thoughtsieze
2 cabal therapy
2 sylvan library
1 jitte
1 batterskull
1 sofi
4 wasteland
4 verdant catacombs
3 marsh flats
2 windswept heath
2 bayou
3 scrubland
1 savannah
1 plains/swamp/forest
sb
3 gaddock teeg
2 chains of mephistopholes
2 toxic deluge
2 ethersworn cannonist
2 grafdiggers cage
2 pithing needle
1 zealous persecution
1 sword of light and shadow
I might cut a wasteland for another fetch, I need those shuffle effects! I tried chains for the first time last week, I'm not sure how much I like it tbh. I sided it in against bug delver with cruise, had it in my opening hand, but never had a good chance to play it out until it was too late... I had to spend the early turns taking care of his threats. Plus I sided out my sylvan libraries for them, but in the end game when I was trying to dig for a decay I really wished the chains were a library. How do we improve the delver match-up?
Last edited by Goblin Cabdriver; 10-31-2014 at 12:22 PM.
I haven't gotten to play since last Sunday, but I'm going to SCG Oakland this weekend.
I was very happy with how the deck performed, but I'd like to make the U/R Delver match up better while not sacrificing anything to Miracles game 1. Cards I'm considering are another STP in the main, 1 or 2 Sylvan Libraries somewhere, and perhaps a Manriki Gusari in the board for Death and Taxes. I also want to test 2x Absolute Law in the sideboard before NJ, but I doubt I'll have enough time to test it before SCG Oakland.
I'm playing Nic Fit at a GPT this weekend which might be my last time playing Legacy until the GP other than informal playtesting (some work travel coming up). Hopefully I'll get a good meta representation in my rounds to decide which is better positioned. My inclination is that sweepers + bombs are better than Confidant and Liliana as advantage engines at the moment, but boy is this deck better against combo.
In hindsight, my EW matchups were pretty close, and I did screw myself in one game by allowing myself to get tilted (I knew the player and he is super annoying.) I beat the UR delver deck when I won the die roll, and we went to time pretty early in game 3 partially because they didn't give us nearly enough of an extension from the judge call. I could see myself playing a Junk build at the GP if Saturday goes really poorly.
I've played this before, and I gotta say it was horrible. Zero clock, threats are very vulnerable/low impact, and even when you get hand and board locked down you can't close out the game with 2 1/1 fliers. "Oh but I have SFM". Your SFM will die. Immediately. Honestly I would consider wrath effects/Comeuppance so you don't get blown out in the early game. This deck needs a big fattie to proactively protect (discard) and then close out the game with.4 DRS
4 Bob
4 SFM
2 Ooze
3 Lingering Souls
And thats why you need Goyf/Knight.
-1 Thoughtseize
-1 Ooze
+3 Goyf
You end up at 61, but I'm sure it's fine.
Also, not sure if Chains is enough or necessary. If you're looking to improve the delver matchup, specifically BUG, SoFaF is really good, as is just more spot removal. They have few creatures that really matter, and all of them die to STP/Decay. Path to Exile is also good if you really wanted it.
3 Gaddock Teeg
2 Pithing Needle
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Zealous Persecution
2 Krosan Grip
2 Extra removal
2 Open
-Matt
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