I'd love to have the room to play Knight, Rhino, and Souls in the same deck, but alas...
-Matt
Hey all,
I wanted to know how this style of Junk balde/Rock seems? In theory crafting it seems to be strong. Against combo the removal comes out and the hate bears come in. Please let me know your thoughts on the list and board. Biggest areas of concern are the Dryad Arbor, Extripates, and Pithing Needls. I am debating this or Macerick as a non-blue legacy option.
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Dark Confidant
2 Lingering Souls
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Thoughtseize
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Sylvan Library
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa’s Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
4 Wasteland
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
1 Karakas
1 Marsh Flats
1 Forest
1 Swamp
1 Plains
2 Bayou
2 Scrubland
1 Savannah
1 Dryad Arbor
Side Board: 15
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Gaddock Teeg
2 Containment Priest
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Choke
2 Extirpate
2 Zealous Persecution
1 Pithing Needle
Depending on your land count, you may want to look at Mox Diamond instead. It's got great synergy with DRS and Knight, and better at fixing because it makes all the colors, guaranteed.
I just re-read your OP, and I don't think running Chrome Mox is as easy as just swapping for lands, and 22-23 lands is probably fine for Diamond as a 1 or 2-of, especially alongside DRS.
I think the biggest thing is the deep seeded emotional understanding that the right play is the right play regardless of outcomes. The ability to make a decision 5 straight times, lose 5 times because of it, and still make it the 6th time if it's the right play. - Jon Finkel
"Notions of chance and fate are the preoccupation of men engaged in rash undertakings."
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Dark Confidant
2 Lingering Souls
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Thoughtseize
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Sylvan Library
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa’s Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
4 Wasteland
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
1 Karakas
1 Marsh Flats
1 Forest
1 Swamp
1 Plains
2 Bayou
2 Scrubland
1 Savannah
1 Dryad Arbor
Side Board: 15
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Gaddock Teeg
2 Containment Priest
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Choke
2 Extirpate
2 Zealous Persecution
1 Pithing Needle
This is similar to what I ran for ages, and it definitely has game. Lingering Souls is great attrition against Miracles, Delver, and Stoneblade decks but is poorly position against combo. Dryad Arbor has a ton of game against Miracles, so don't let it get you down. I'd say you may want to play more Needles, as it is a very good answer to Jace, Top, etc. I don't think you need Extirpate with containment Priest, unless you're planning on playing against 43 lands all day. I honestly don't like Liliana all that much right now, but that's just me. Perhaps try Scavenging Ooze somewhere in the 75. He's a real treat.
-Matt
I agree with you Matt, liliana seems "meh" right now. I'm currently testing a much more tempo oriented list with more Scullers main, no lilianas main, and an additional sylvan library. And library...holy freakin' hot sauce is that card good. I can't give anything substantial for data but my win percentage when I resolve a library is significantly higher than when I don't draw/resolve it. Seriously debating a third.
Brainstorm Realist
I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner
Scullers are in a weird position. They either do a ton to disrupt actual "stuff" opponents run (ie; taking business non durdly cantrips) or die miserably soon after they hit the table. I think you'd need to run a therapy-sculler package to abuse you looking at their hand + flashback tricks with sculler for them to be useful.
I think a really underrated card for right now is Gatekeeper of Malakir. All the techy grixis and rouge decks that run him punish opponents for forgetting he's a card. In the opening turns and in topdeck wars, he's quality.
@Liliana: She has to fight terrible matchups right now. But again, Rock can adjust with maindeck sweepers that handle swarms. Liliana on a clean table is a bitch to stop.
I'm glad you're seeing what I've been saying for....3+ years? :P
Liliana is straight garbage against Miracles and Omni. Don't tell me she's good because she maybe takes half their lands sometimes, alright? :P I was testing my "crush the fuck out of the meta" Jund list and I 10-1'd Miracles in pre and post sideboard games, all while bringing out Liliana and I didn't miss her at all. However, Choke was insane. Definitely going to get in on that, since I've got the Koreanz.
I think Gatekeeper suffers from similar problems. Sure he doesn't get Spell Pierced, but Liliana can get more than one sacrifice and does other stuff and doesn't die to plow. Sure it's better in different matchups, but Gatekeeper is likely better in DGA.
-Matt
Removal spells that kill sculler are ones that don't kill bob, goyf, mystic, or deathrite. If someone is spending mana and cards to deal with a 2/2 disruption (that fits perfectly on curve) then its a great tempo boost. Exiling the card is also relevant for cards like loam and pfire. And its an artifact for goyf boosting. You'll have to try harder than that to convince me its a weird card. Fyi, I play 4 thoughtseize and 2 inquisition main alongside 3 sculler.
Brainstorm Realist
I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner
I don't know what you're talking about, Liliana is amazing against miracles. To be honest, Shierkmaw is surprisingly really good. Better than Gatekeeper IMO (bbb is a little mana intensive). Even if you hard cast him, the fear is really relevant especially with a sword/jitte attached to him.
She's fine, she's not great. Ask any Miracles pilot. They play off the top of their deck. Nuking half their lands is rough for them, sure, but she doesn't beat a Jace nor Entreat.
I can ask Tomaz, Philipp, and Joe to see what they say but in all the times I've talked to them they're not "scared" of Liliana.
-Matt
I agree that Liliana is lackluster in Rock against Miracles. Not because she doesn't beat Jace or Entreat (apples to oranges), but because her discard hurts you more than it hurts them. Limiting their hand size is still very effective because being able to play with no hand is only a backup plan, but without some discard outlet like Life from the Loam or Punishing Fire or some other fluff, it comes at the expense of either having to overinvest on the board or discard future threats and answers.
I do still find her effective against Omni though. Not necessarily the fastest card or the go-to card, but it's pretty tough to land a two card combo when you have no hand.
So yea, I hate chrome mox lol. Maybe I'll try diamond as a fun-of
Next card, has anyone had any experience with unexpectedly absent? It's as hard to cast a councils, and doesn't answer TNN, but it's instant speed which has value, especially when you are facing down an omniscience. You can try and put it back on their deck to interrupt their cantrip chain, since they are usually card famished from discard
Though it's possible that the better gameplan is to try and make sure they have to pass the turn after a show n tell (via canonist, teeg or discard) and then councils it then.
On a completely unrelated note..
I played omnitell in testing, I cast 2 seizes and a hymn in the game, leaving him empty handed with a goyf on board to pressure, except he responded to the hymn with brainstorm, discarded his hand drew for the turn, passed. I drew something inconsequential, he eot dig, untaps casts show for omni and then proceeds to cantrip into the win. Everything that annoys me about the format displayed in one game lol
Edit: may have been a seize and 2 hymns, I forget the exact sequence
He didn't interact with me the whole game except for when I was forcing him to discard, so depressing haha
#badbeatsrantstoryover
For those interested, here is where I'm at these days
4 Verd Catacombs
2 Windswept Heath
2 Marsh flats
1 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Plains
2 Bayou
1 Savanah
2 Scrubland
2 Treetop
4 Wasteland
22
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Goyf
4 Bob
3 SFM
1 Jitte
1 SoFaI
1 BSK
4 Thoughtsieze
2 IoK / 2 hymn?
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Library
2 Souls
2 Council's Judgment
38
60
2 Surgical
2 Needle
2 containment priest
2 canonist
2 Thalia
2 Teeg
2 Toxic Deluge
1 deed
My recent list has been testing well online:
3 Dark Confidant
3 Goyf
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Thrun
1 Scavenging Ooze
3 STP
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Thoughtseize
2 Cabal Therapy
3 Sylvan Library
2 Lingering Souls
1 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Dryad Arbor
3 Bayou
2 Scrubland
2 Savannah
2 Forest
1 Swamp
1 Plains
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Windswept Heath
1 Marsh Flats
3 Wasteland
//
3 Gaddock Teeg
2 Thalia
2 Tidehollow Sculler
2 Choke
2 Grip
2 Needle
2 Zealous Persecution
It's been doing well online. I've been liking Sculler a bit, actually. However, Omni, in general, is a REALLY good deck right now. Likely the best Dig deck in the format.
-Matt
I'm coming to the conclusion that for as long as DTT is around, much like TC, it's going to be very difficult for this kind of deck to compete.
DTT/TC punish discard and interaction in general, with an extreme form of card selection combined with card advantage. It basically punishes us on our decks main axis of attack, which is to disrupt/grind the enemy while we overwhelm their answers with cheap threats.
We win by having the last threat on the board basically, and DTT/TC
nullifies that all. U midrange, U omnitell, Miracles even delver. It's pretty disheartening.
I'm going to a small tourney tomorrow, but I think that after it I'll probably be hanging up my bobs and goyfs and jumping back on nic fit, to go bigger.
Of note, I've been running two councils, and really liking them.
Went 3-1 in a small 10 person tournament and finished 2nd due to good breakers.
Here is the list I played:
Rhino Rock
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Dark Confidant
3 Siege Rhino
4 Thoughtseize
3 Hymn to Tourach
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Abrupt Decay
2 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Liliana of the Veil
1 Sylvan Library
2 Bayou
2 Scrubland
1 Savannah
1 Twilight Mire
2 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Karakas
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Windswept Heath
2 Marsh Flats
4 Wasteland
Sideboard:
3 Duress
2 Extirpate
1 Surgical Extraction
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Zealous Persecution
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Krosan Grip
2 Choke
1 Umezawa's Jitte
Round 1: Sneak and Show (2-0)
Round 2: Bant Stoneblade (1-2, last game 2 TNN I couldn't answer)
Round 3: Jeskai Stoneblade (2-0)
Round 4: Infect (2-0)
I need to fix the manabase by adding more lands that cast Hymn to Tourach. I think -1 Savannah + 1 Scrubland might be the way to go. I also think I might even want Path to Exile in this deck rather than STP, because of the more Zoo aggro nature of the deck. Also, I think I need more TNN hate in the board, I really hate losing to that card. Even more than I hate losing to combo. Maybe -1 Pulse +1 Engineered Plague?
Change your two main deck pulses to Council's Judgment. Problem solved, you don't need to waste sideboard slots there :)
I went 3-1-1 in a 34 person tournament the other day.
Beat affininity, painter, MUD
Lost to omni tell 1-2 (he dig through timed in response to me exiling a land from his GY (I had none) to stop me from landing my etheraworn canonist so he could win next turn (someone kill that card please))
Then drew to the knight/devastating dreams Loam build, which was frustrating cause he ate all the time and I was in the winning position.
I ran two judgments and was real happy with them!
I cut my two surgicals for a choke and a krosan grip and regretted it a lot.
Now sneak and show is out of the picture I'm changing containment priests to something, either two sculler or 3rd Thalia and 3rd gaddock teeg
Sorry to disturb. But is there such a thing as a junk-thread? I want to play Hymn and Goyf but no Stoneforge mystic. Where should I go?
Here is fine. Ill clear when not on shitty mobile.
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