[Deck] The Rock

[KoDiamonds]

I know theres been a lot of discussion with the straight BG build, but I hope people wont mind if I shift the talks over to my Abzan build.

Heres my current list.

Lands (22)
3 Bayou
1 Forest
3 Marsh Flats
1 Plains
1 Savannah
2 Scrubland
1 Swamp
1 Treetop Village
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Wasteland
2 Windswept Heath

Creatures (14)
4 Deathrite Shaman
3 Dark Confidant
3 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Tarmogoyf

Sorcery (10)
4 Thoughtseize
2 Hymn to Tourach
3 Lingering Souls
1 Toxic Deluge

Instant (6)
3 Swords to Plowshares
3 Abrupt Decay

Artifacts (3)
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Batterskull

Enchantment (2)
2 Sylvan Library

Planeswalkers (3)
3 Liliana of the Veil

Sideboard (15)
1 Chains of Mephistopheles
1 Choke
1 Containment Priest
1 Engineered Plague
2 Enlightened Tutor
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Humility
1 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Zealous Persecution

I just want to give a shoutout to tescrin with the Enlightened Tutor tech in the sideboard. Ive really liked it and helped consistently have my silver bullet sideboard cards.

Heres some points that I would like input on.

A) 2 Sylvan Libraries. Theyve been great. However, Ive seen an uptick in Leovold (they seem everywhere online) and w/o removal, they just get shut down. I am wondering if I should go down to just 1 copy.
B) I think I want 4 Lingering Souls at this point. My deck wants to hose fair matchups and playing a playset of Souls should help improve my % points there. However, what should I cut main?
C) Ive noticed that ive been boarding in Pithing Needle less and less since Top got banned. Has anyone else felt that way? I took it out of the board for 1 Maelstrom Pulse.
D) I feel like Pulse is a maindeckable card. So if I go +1 Pulse +1 Souls main, what should be cut? I am thinking 1 Library and 1 LotV, which opens up 1 sideboard slot. What are peoples thoughts?
E) Any other thoughts are appreciated!

[tescrin]

thanks for the shoutout!


A) Personally that's my thoughts on library. Potentially do the Grim Flayer trick others have mentioned (just swapping it out) since he improves your draws in a similar manner. Also, for your list, the flashback synergy is good.

B) I think if you want a 4th Souls, you'll have to consider it's anti-synergy with Deluge. Arguments can be made for the Library you're thinking or the 22nd land as well.

C) I run two needle in the board even with my tutors (moved a Revoker to a 2nd needle) specifically because it hits lands. Lands (the deck) is a pretty easy matchup if you can keep yourself from getting locked out, and a pair of needles + RIP + 1-2 Tutors has made it a pretty positive MU for my brew. Additionally, the majority of my losses to lands are actually attributable to Maze of Ith stalling until they get a Tabernacle, and then the awkward 20minute grind begins; and Needle helps keep that from happening too.

D) Same suggestion as before. Pulse is nice when it hits BSK and it occasionally scatters some tokens to the wind or gets a 2-for-1. I can see it being in a Lily slot.


E) I think the only thing to mention is be ready for RiPs if they happen. Going deep on Lingering Souls makes RiPs that much more potent. Luckily they're in lower numbers right now; but something to keep in mind. Personally I've been using Bitterblossom a lot in my Esper deck and it's a brutal card. Given the Goyf synergy I think you should test it out, which also strengthens your manabase.

[KoDiamonds]

thanks for the shoutout!


A) Personally that's my thoughts on library. Potentially do the Grim Flayer trick others have mentioned (just swapping it out) since he improves your draws in a similar manner. Also, for your list, the flashback synergy is good.

B) I think if you want a 4th Souls, you'll have to consider it's anti-synergy with Deluge. Arguments can be made for the Library you're thinking or the 22nd land as well.

C) I run two needle in the board even with my tutors (moved a Revoker to a 2nd needle) specifically because it hits lands. Lands (the deck) is a pretty easy matchup if you can keep yourself from getting locked out, and a pair of needles + RIP + 1-2 Tutors has made it a pretty positive MU for my brew. Additionally, the majority of my losses to lands are actually attributable to Maze of Ith stalling until they get a Tabernacle, and then the awkward 20minute grind begins; and Needle helps keep that from happening too.

D) Same suggestion as before. Pulse is nice when it hits BSK and it occasionally scatters some tokens to the wind or gets a 2-for-1. I can see it being in a Lily slot.


E) I think the only thing to mention is be ready for RiPs if they happen. Going deep on Lingering Souls makes RiPs that much more potent. Luckily they're in lower numbers right now; but something to keep in mind. Personally I've been using Bitterblossom a lot in my Esper deck and it's a brutal card. Given the Goyf synergy I think you should test it out, which also strengthens your manabase.

As always, thanks for your input Tescrin! Greatly appreciated.

A) Is Grim Flayer actually played in Legacy? lol. I mean in every matchup except Leovold decks, Sylvan Library is just miles better, isn't it?

B) Swapping a 2nd Library for a 4th Souls really makes me worried about my curve. 18 two-drops & 8 three-drops. Doing that swap would make it 17 & 9. I guess three souls isn't too bad for now. I just don't want a bunch of clunky three drops stuck in my hand.

C) I think you're right. I also played vs. D&T and I really miss Pithing Needle in that matchup as well. Naming Aether Vial early game into Mother of Runes, Manriki-Gusari, etc. What other matchups do you board in Pithing Needle in?

D) Yeah, I think that's the one change I'm going to make. -1 Liliana of the Veil +1 Maelstrom Pulse and keep the Pithing Needle in the side

E) I've always been a little iffy about Bitterblossom in every format. First off, it's just really slow, while Lingering Souls just gives me my tokens immediately. Second, with three Bobs and two Libraries, I'm pretty liberal with my life total already. Adding Bitterblossom just seems like a little too much.

EDIT F) I have another question. In terms of my manabase, this is a very particular question, but every % pt counts. Should I swap my 2nd Windswept Heath for a playset of Marsh Flats? (4 Catacombs, 4 Flats, 1 Heath) Or keep it the same? (4 Catacombs, 3 Flats, 2 Heath)?

[CptHaddock]

As always, thanks for your input Tescrin! Greatly appreciated.

A) Is Grim Flayer actually played in Legacy? lol. I mean in every matchup except Leovold decks, Sylvan Library is just miles better, isn't it?

I think he's playable although I think that you are comparing him to the wrong card. You really should be comparing him to bob, he's a pseudo bob who won't die to most red removal.

C) I think you're right. I also played vs. D&T and I really miss Pithing Needle in that matchup as well. Naming Aether Vial early game into Mother of Runes, Manriki-Gusari, etc. What other matchups do you board in Pithing Needle in?

Lands, Elves, D&T, Maverick and against decks that have walkers although you do have treetop to pressure them.

[KoDiamonds]

CptHaddock: I think I would rather have library and bobs over flayers. Also, Thanks for your sideboard input!

On the topic of Sylvan Library, has anyone tried out Mirri's Guile instead? I currently have 2 Libraries, but I think I am going to test a 1:1 split. Having duplicate libraries does nothing. However, if you have Bob, you can stack Guile, take no damage, and then draw off library. Its also 1 mana AND gets around Leovold. Seems solid if Im going to dedicate 2 slots anyway to Library, why not do a 1:1 split? What are peoples thoughts on this?

[Megadeus]

I originally posted this list in the Aggro Loam thread, but it's probably more appropriate here. I'm 7-1 so far the past two weeks with the list and it feels pretty nice. I have only tested a bit against Delver though. Not sure how I'd fare in the MU
Junk Loam Blade:

Maindeck (61)
3 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Tarmogoyf
4 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Renegade Rallier
2 Swords to Plowshares
4 Thoughtseize
2 Abrupt Decay
3 Collective Brutality
2 Life from the Loam
3 Lingering Souls
2 Painful Truths
4 Mox Diamond
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
1 Barren Moor
2 Bayou
1 Forest
1 Karakas
2 Marsh Flats
1 Mishra's Factory
1 Rogue's Passage
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Swamp
1 Tower of the Magistrate
1 Tranquil Thicket
3 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
3 Windswept Heath

Sideboard (15)
1 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Crop Rotation
1 Surgical Extraction
2 Zealous Persecution
1 Krosan Grip
1 To the Slaughter
2 Choke
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Thespian's Stage



Shared via TopDecked MTG https://www.topdecked.me/decks/03902...2-bd8ce644cbbf

[Jain_Mor]

So I felt goyf is getting worse and decay less necessary and moved to almost straight BW. A cousin of Junk really, so thought you'd all be interested in my report and discussion winning with the deck in a 6 round + top 8 tournament, even if it is posted in the Deadguy forum. I'm currently 24-9 (73%) in events the past few months, so Abzan has something going for it, and I think it's on the back of drs, wasteland, powerful discard, efficient removal, bob, souls and equipment + hatebears.

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...=1#post1016318

hope it tickles your interest

[lavafrogg]

I originally posted this list in the Aggro Loam thread, but it's probably more appropriate here. I'm 7-1 so far the past two weeks with the list and it feels pretty nice. I have only tested a bit against Delver though. Not sure how I'd fare in the MU
Junk Loam Blade:

Maindeck (61)
3 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Tarmogoyf
4 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Renegade Rallier
2 Swords to Plowshares
4 Thoughtseize
2 Abrupt Decay
3 Collective Brutality
2 Life from the Loam
3 Lingering Souls
2 Painful Truths
4 Mox Diamond
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
1 Barren Moor
2 Bayou
1 Forest
1 Karakas
2 Marsh Flats
1 Mishra's Factory
1 Rogue's Passage
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Swamp
1 Tower of the Magistrate
1 Tranquil Thicket
3 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
3 Windswept Heath

Sideboard (15)
1 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Crop Rotation
1 Surgical Extraction
2 Zealous Persecution
1 Krosan Grip
1 To the Slaughter
2 Choke
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Thespian's Stage



Shared via TopDecked MTG https://www.topdecked.me/decks/03902...2-bd8ce644cbbf

Isn't Chalice of the Void the best reason to run an aggo loam deck?

[Megadeus]

Chalice can provide clunky games. Yes it's powerful, but I'm more using the diamonds in this deck to provide fast mana to drop threats early. Junk has used loam and diamonds before. Being able to get removal past daze mana quickly is nice as is having powerful engines with loam and cycle lands. Turn 1 stone forge forces the opponent to do something quickly or they will have to deal with bskull while I continue to disrupt the mana and add elsewhere to the board.

[Claymore]

Think Grim Flayer might be better than Painful Truths? With the Rallier, Loam, and Lingering Souls package, I think Flayer could play well in your list.

Turn 1 Flayer also seems decent.

What have the matchups been like?

[Mr. Safety]

While I pick up cards for Pox I am working with this deck. I am still testing the Mom plan, with pretty good results I think (just practice games so far.) I don't have SFM so instead I am focusing on Goyf/KotR. I also picked up a Bayou in trade so my mana is getting really close to correct. I welcome any comments for sure. The curve is really solid, split almost evenly between 1-2 drops with 5 3-drops. It seems to work out well where I have a really good turn 1 play, turn 2 play, with some sort of powerful turn 3 option (wasteland + goyf/bob or Liliana/Knight.)

4x Mother of Runes
4x Deathrite Shaman
4x Tarmogoyf
3x Dark Confidant
3x Tidehollow Sculler
2x Knight of the Reliquary
4x Thoughtseize
4x Swords to Plowshares
3x Abrupt Decay
2x Hymn to Tourach
2x Sylvan Library
2x Liliana of the Veil
1x Vindicate
4x Verdant Catacombs
3x Windswept Heath
1x Marsh Flats
2x Scrubland
1x Bayou
1x Savannah
2x Swamp
1x Forest
1x Plains
1x Karaka
1x Maze of Ith
4x Wasteland

Sideboard
1x Bojuka Bog
2x Surgical Extraction
1x Scavenging Ooze
2x Golgari Charm
2x Ethersworn Canonist
1x Containment Priest
1x Gaddock Teeg
1x Life from the Loam
1x Duress
1x Maelstrom Pulse
2x Choke


I know it would be super greedy, but I really want to splash a blue dual + 2-3 Meddling Mage in the board. I think it would be such a solid way to shut off cards while still applying pressure. I'm officially off Sinkhole (just isn't good enough) and back onto Hymn/Liliana split. So many good cards that I can't squeeze in (lingering souls, inquisition, pernicious deed, fatal push, etc.) I may have my mix wrong or I may be playing sub-par cards. Be honest, I can take constructive criticism well.

[Megadeus]

Truths has been decent, but I'm definitely considering Bob or Grim in that slot. Probably will pick up some flayers to try out. I just haven't wanted to spend the money. I've lost only to DnT so far. I think it's winnable. Beaten up on UWR control, uw stone blade, BR Reanimator, a bad lands player, and Hex Depths is what I remember

[Mr. Safety]

Isn't Chalice of the Void the best reason to run an aggo loam deck?

If no chalice, isn't Deathrite Shaman at least a really strong consideration?

[Megadeus]

If no chalice, isn't Deathrite Shaman at least a really strong consideration?

Possibly. I'm worried that with DRS too that the deck begins to be a bit too heavy on mana and I have trouble finding threats

[Mr. Safety]

Possibly. I'm worried that with DRS too that the deck begins to be a bit too heavy on mana and I have trouble finding threats

I've found DRS to be an incredible threat all by himself. I find games where I draw and play multiple DRS going very well. Doubling up spells or simply Wasteland-ing without worrying about being too mana light. I also focus on Bob/Library quite a bit. The only reason I don't run 4 bobs is because multiples get awkward. I'm considering a 1-of Painful Truths honestly, just so I still have draw power without having to commit to ongoing lifeloss for CA.

[Megadeus]

I've really liked Truths. I played against Lands last week and truths let me keep a double diamond 3 land hand. Turn 1 truths followed up by turn 2 KOTR that I drew off of it. The diamonds allowed me to not get ported out and all my big dudes laughed at PFires

[Mr. Safety]

I've really liked Truths. I played against Lands last week and truths let me keep a double diamond 3 land hand. Turn 1 truths followed up by turn 2 KOTR that I drew off of it. The diamonds allowed me to not get ported out and all my big dudes laughed at PFires

Nice! I am playing without Mox Diamonds, but I understand it was once fairly stock to do so. Starts like that are absurd. I'm definitely committed to playing big threats protected by MoM (Goyf/Knight.) What I love about the Mom plan is it's an automatic 4 flex slots against decks she isn't needed. Truths could be a sideboard card, or it could simply take up another random slot. Library is awkward when I draw both, but that happens rarely (the first library digs into a fetchland to get rid of it) but I could see just jamming a PT instead of the 2nd Library (or maybe I just cut a Sculler for it.)

[KoDiamonds]

Nice! I am playing without Mox Diamonds, but I understand it was once fairly stock to do so. Starts like that are absurd. I'm definitely committed to playing big threats protected by MoM (Goyf/Knight.) What I love about the Mom plan is it's an automatic 4 flex slots against decks she isn't needed. Truths could be a sideboard card, or it could simply take up another random slot. Library is awkward when I draw both, but that happens rarely (the first library digs into a fetchland to get rid of it) but I could see just jamming a PT instead of the 2nd Library (or maybe I just cut a Sculler for it.)

If you have Bobs and have 2 Libraries, I strongly recommend doing a 1:1 split of Sylvan Library and Mirri's Guile instead. Ive been testing it and really like it. First off, its 1 mana. Second, it synergizes with Bob very well. Third, you can have bob, guile, and library all on the field and be fine. Theres also cute tricks like fetching after the guile trigger if all 3 cards are bad. Last, but most importantly, it gets around Leovold.

[Megadeus]

Went 3-1 again with my bastardized list. Lost to BUG Leovold after he kept a 1 lander with ponder, I thoughtseized it and he drew running 3 lands in a row while I drew none. Get fucked. Beat up Infect, MUD, and Jund Depths. His face when I cast crop rotation in game 3 to Stage on his depths was excellent

[Wakkz]

Hi all!
Im new to Legacy, but have been a liliana, goyf, bob user for a while.
This Junk list is something I have been looking for and was wondering why no love for fatal push?
Or is StP better when I can exile my own creature to gain life or something?