You're probably right. I would feel weird not having them anyways. Choke it is.
Tireless Tracker I think would need a minimum of 24 lands, and it does a lot of great work with Knight of the Reliquary. More of a Maverick card I think.
Brainstorm Realist
I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner
On Choke - I don't think Choke is good right now. Most of the format is pretty successfully planning to play around/through it. I would dedicate the spots to something else entirely. What that is, is dependent on what's been giving you issue in your meta.
Why I'm actually posting... I'm looking for feedback on another card Hidden Stockpile.
Safety and I have been discussing this card behind the scenes but I wanted to get idea(s) from other people about it. He's been helping it grow on me after I realized I misread it. I still need to test but this is the last list I shared with him to give you all some ideas.
1 Deathrite Shaman
4 Dark Confidant
3 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Tarmogoyf
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Ramunap Excavator
2 Renegade Rallier
3 Swords to Plowshares
2 Abrupt Decay
3 Thoughtseize
2 Cabal Therapy
1 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Hidden Stockpile
1 Pernicious Deed
3 Mox Diamond
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Batterskull
2 Liliana of the Veil
1 Marsh Flats
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Windswept Heath
2 Bayou
1 Savannah
1 Scubland
2 Horizon Canopy
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Dyrad Arbor
1 Karakas
1 Volrath's Stronghold
2 Wasteland
1 Maze of Ith
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Swamp
Sideboard (currently 14 cards)
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Diabolic Edict
2 Hymn to Tourach
1 Zealous Persecution
2 Blood Moon
1 Anguished Unmaking
3 Lost Legacy
Sidenote on the list, I haven't adjusted the land-base since removing Knight of the Reliquary.
Tinkering with some crafting theory. Here
I played in a 1k today, came in 16th out of 55 players. I had a ton of fun, really liked the decklist I played, and i'll get a tournament report in soon, probably tomorrow.
Brainstorm Realist
I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner
Just 5-0d another league!
Here's the link:
https://magic.wizards.com/en/article...gue-2018-02-17
First on the page!
Usual decklist
Lands (22)
3 Bayou
1 Forest
3 Marsh Flats
1 Plains
1 Savannah
2 Scrubland
2 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Wasteland
2 Windswept Heath
Creatures (14)
4 Deathrite Shaman
3 Dark Confidant
3 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Tarmogoyf
Sorcery (10)
3 Thoughtseize
3 Hymn to Tourach
3 Lingering Souls
1 Toxic Deluge
Instant (6)
3 Swords to Plowshares
3 Abrupt Decay
Artifacts (3)
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Batterskull
Enchantment (2)
2 Sylvan Library
Planeswalkers (3)
2 Liliana of the Veil
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
Sideboard (15)
1 Choke
2 Containment Priest
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Hymn to Tourach
1 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Pithing Needle
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Zealous Persecution
Round 1 vs. Lands (2-0)
Game 1: Opponent had Grove, Wasteland, Ghost Quarter Port, Exploration, and Loam. I don't know how I won this game. Tarmogoyf got really big and was such a fast clock. My opponent had to Crop Rotate for a Glacial Chasm. Deathrite eventually locked it up.
Game 2: I surgicalled an early Punishing Fire and I stuck a Bob + Deathrite. He never drew loam and I outgrinded him with Bobs.
Round 2 vs. Grixis Delver (2-0)
Game 1: I casted two sets of Lingering Souls. That card literally owns this matchup.
Game 2: I didn't get tempoed out and eventually we exchanged resources into the midgame. Late game draws of lingering souls and Sylvan library locked things up.
Round 3 vs. Grixis Delver (2-1)
Game 1: This game I definitely got tempod out. I had an interesting line though. Opponent had 2 cards in hand, tapped out, with a lone Gurmag Angler in play. I have a Scrubland and a Bayou in play. My cards are Sylvan Library, Hymn, Sword of F&I, Stoneforge, and Lingering Souls. I am at 18 life.
I opted to Hymn my opponent. My thought process was I wanted to make sure Angler was the only threat I had to deal with, in case he had something in hand. If my opponent had Force or Daze, Id rather have my Hymn dazed than the Library. I think this play won me the game. He discarded Ponder and Spell Pierce. I slammed Library next turn, and dug a swords 3 cards deep. Stabilized at 4 life. Opponent scooped
Game 2: This is the only game I actually drew choke. Opponent had 5 cards in hand, tapped out. I got greedy and slammed it on turn 3, it got dazed. I think it was correct to jam the other three 2-drops in my hand but I got too excited.
We traded resources and eventually my opponent had a Gurmag Angler and a flipped Delver that I could not answer.
Game 3: Tarmogoyf laid the beatdown all the way down to 3 life. The boardstate ended up being me having multiple goyfs and an active Liliana. Opponent had two Pyromancers and plenty tokens. Opponent couldn't really attack through profitably. Eventually I topdecked a Deathrite and my opponent scooped to a lethal drain.
Round 4 vs. BR??? (2-0)
Game 1: Not sure what this deck is. It ran discard spells, young pyromancer, and blood moon. We exchanged discard spells. I luckily had a Basic Swamp that I fetched for and naturally drew a basic plains. Casted Bob, Lingering Souls, and flashed it back while my opponent did nothing but cast a Blood Moon.
Game 2: Fetched around Blood moon. Casted Lingering Souls and equipped a Jitte that was in my opener. The Jitte locked out my opponent while my basic land manabase was unimpeded.
Round 5 vs . Lands (2-1)
Game 1: Here we go. For all the Marbles. Lost the die roll. Opponent went Grove of the Burnwillows, Mox Diamond Discarding Tabernacle, Gambled, Discarded Life from the Loam, Cast Manabond, played Thicket, discarded Punishing Fire. Literally the nut draw.
4-1 again? :( I just scooped to conceal what I was on.
Game 2: Opponent went turn 1 gamble for I assume Loam. However, my opponent didn't hit a way to deal with Tarmogoyf. I ended up suiting it up with a SoFI and I stole this game.
Game 3: I surgicalled a key Life from the Loam. Opponent didn't have a Punishing Fire so I casted Lingering Souls, suited it up with a Sword. Landed a Library and drew more Surgicals and more wastelands. Won in a couple turns.
There it is! 5-0!
Overall, I am happy with 74/75. I am playing in a team event at my LGS and I'll probably keep the same 75.
The slot in question that I have second thoughts about is Choke. I felt like if I had been more patient and slammed a two drop in round 3, Choke would have sealed the game up if I had just waited to draw a 4th land, and I would have won that game. Another option is a 4th Lingering Souls which I think is probably the more disciplined deckbuilding decision.
I typed the above before today's legacy event. We had a team event today and I was the legacy player. Sadly, I went 1-2.
Round 1 vs. Storm (0-2)
Game 1: Opponent had turn 2 kill. I was sad.
Game 2: I mulliganed. My 6 was 3 lands, Deathrite, Goyf, Dark Confidant. This is a mulligan right? I feel like I need some hand disruption to even have a chance.
My 5 was two hymns, decay, land, goyf. I needed a land in the first two draw steps for me to have a chance. I did not and I lost. If I had a black source, I'm 99% sure I'd win this game.
Round 2 vs. Elves (1-2)
Game 1: I thoughtseized, Hymned, decayed, swords his whole board. He had nothing. However, my first 5 drawsteps were lands, I flooded, and my opponent drew more action and I lost.
Game 2: I stabilized with Containment Priest, Ethersworn Canonist, and Jitte equip. Won after taking me 30 minutes to stabilize the board.
Game 3: We went to time and my opponent drew a Glimpse and chained into 3 more glimpses and Hoffed me on Turn 4 of turns.
Round 3 vs. Czech Pile (2-0)
Game 1: I drew all four goyfs and a Lingering Souls. Opponent's Deluge killing my 4 spirits and goyf took care of my first wave of threats, but an extra pair of goyfs + Liliana last hope killing pesky threats got there.
Game 2: Jittes a pair of Deathrites and Choke choked him out. So glad I had Choke. It just shut the door on my opponent.
Overall, I felt like today was just bad variance. Mulliganed into oblivion Round 1 game 2 and drew horribly game 1 round 2. I never felt out of it however. Just unfortunate the cards didn't fall my way in paper. Choke definitely feels fine as a 1 of in the board. If they spend a Decay on it, it makes my Sword, Jitte, Sylvan Library, Lilly, etc. unmolested. That's how I felt. Choke just closes the door fast and requires two Decays. Good luck.
Last Hope is also stellar. I love the 1 of along with the 2 Lillys. Overall, I feel 100% about my 75/75. If I had a Legacy GP tomorrow, I'd register this 75 confidently.
@Mr. Safety: Looking forward to your report! Please post the 75 you played with and what you would change as well.
So first off, let me tell you, in the words of a Maine Legacy Lands player acquaintance, "the Maine legacy scene is cancer!" With that out of the way I played 6 rounds facing, in order: Burn, Enchantress, Esper Stoneblade, TES, Punishing Maverick, New Miracles. My losses were to Burn in 3 and Punishing Maverick 0-2 (really need to work on this matchup!) Here was my 75 (yes, fuck it all, I played Tidehollow Sculler and it was great!)
4x Deathrite Shaman
4x Dark Confidant
4x Tarmogoyf
2x Stoneforge Mystic
2x Tidehollow Sculler
3x Thoughtseize
1x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Swords to Plowshares
2x Abrupt Decay
1x Vindicate
3x Hymn to Tourach
2x Sylvan Library
1x Umezawa's Jitte
1x Batterskull
2x Lingering Souls
2x Liliana of the Veil
4x Verdant Catacombs
3x Windswept Heath
1x Marsh Flats
2x Scrubland
1x Bayou
1x Savannah
2x Swamp
1x Forest
1x Plains
1x Karakas
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4x Wasteland
Sideboard
2x Surgical Extraction
1x Nihil Spellbomb
2x Ethersworn Canonist
2x Pithing Needle
2x Zealous Persecution
2x Toxic Deluge
1x Containment Priest
1x Diabolic Edict
2x Choke
Reasons for the Scullers: wide open metagame, it's excellent against fringe combo decks that need specific cards, and it's great against Show and Tell (which I expected to face, and there was at least 3-4 S&T players in the room.) For the sideboard I dropped a Maelstrom Pulse for a Spellbomb at the last minute because there is always a few dredge players, and I wasn't disappointed, but I didn't face them either. A Manaless Dredge player made top 8. Deluge and Persecution were for True-Name and Elves. Choke justified it's inclusion by blowing out Miracles in my 6th round, which clinched my spot at 16th.
R1 - Burn (LOSS, 1-2)
Game 1 I naturally draw a Jitte, equip to a Deathrite to attack and get counters and it bails me out. I end the game at 13 life. G2 I get a t2 Hymn but he draws a ton of Goblin Guides/Swiftspears, top-decks a Lava Spike, attacks with a Guide and 3 Swiftspears and takes me from 14 down to 3 in one turn. I didn't have Deluge, and I couldn't use it anyways, so we go to g3 which goes really long but I don't get anything that can stabilize my life total. I land a Mystic and hedge against a removal by getting a Bskull, and I'm only on 2 lands. He bolts the mystic and I think I'm done. I top deck my two scullers over the next 4 turns and I'm attacking for 4 and it's a very close race. He's at 1, I'm at 2, he topdecks Barbarian Ring FTW. The cookie crumbles, boo.
R2 - Enchantress (WIN, 2-1)
Game 1 I go Deathrite into a t2 Liliana, rip his hand with Hymn the following turn and he's 4 cards down and I land a Dark Confidant and Tarmogoyf. Fast, satisfying game. G2 he gets 3 draw engines going and a t0 Leyline of Sanctity, making 3 cards in my opener obsolete. He lands Solitary Confinement and I concede so I can have time to win g3, which I do in rare fashion. I mulligan to 6 but that 6 is very good with a Wasteland and Surgical Extraction for his Serra's Sanctum. It makes for a slow start for my development, but I have Lingering Souls and I draw into several Dark Confidants that outpace his Journey to Nowhere's and I get there fairly easily. Fringe matchup, but I won g3 even with 2 Leyline of Sanctity's on the table.
R3 - Esper Deathblade (WIN, 1-0)
Talk about a grindfest, this really tested my patience. It wasn't annoying because it was a grindy match but because my opponent is fucking slow as death. He's known as a good player in the local Magic scene, but the two times I've faced him he takes way too long to make decisions. I am mildly gratified that his slow play punished him so severely because I win G1 and we only have 15 minutes left in the round to do G2-3. I try not to take forever sideboarding because I don't want to mirror my opponent's pace, but I'm fairly certain I will lock this match up 1-0. The first game goes back and forth with him playing Probes and Therapies, Brainstorms, lands 2 Monestary Mentors and 2 Mystics and a Batterskull over the game. I also land a Mystic, get Jitte, 3 Tarmogoyfs, a Dark Confidant, a Sculler, and finally push the game over the edge with Lingering Souls. He was using flip-Jace, which was interesting, but it had almost no effect on g2 because we are so short on time. He also didn't draw into very many Shamans, and I was always the first to get Shaman active (ripping all the lands.)
R4 - TES (WIN 2-1)
Game 1 He goes turn 1 Underground Sea, Duress, takes my Hymn to Tourach. I Wasteland him on my t1 and he doesn't have any other lands. It buys me literally 6 turns to beat him. He plays a Lotus Petal into Brainstorm for lands, whiffs, and he's locked out for another 2 turns. Sculler, Bob, Library, Liliana, Tarmogyf, GG. Game 2 he does well, gets a couple good Ponders in and goes off t4 and Tendril's me for 36. *shrug*, Whatever. G3 I mulligan down to 5, but it's a hot 5. Urborg, Thoughtseize, Hymn to Tourach, Ethersworn Canonist, Dark Confidant. I only need 1 land and he's going to have a very tough time winning. Literally any land is live in my deck to cast one of those 2 drops, and Thoughtseize there to buy me time. I take LED t1, and see his risky keep of all mana and no business. He rips a Ponder, but I get a t3 Canonist, t4 Hymn, t5 Confidant, and close the game out with Sculler/Bob beats with active Library. Usually a tough matchup, but I am reminded very clearly on how to pilot Rock to victory: chain disruption into a threat. I start thinking about Batterskull in my maindeck and I'm not sure I want it anymore. It's slower than a Tarmogoyf, the lifegain is often not needed, and another equipment like SoFI would probably be better.
R5 - Punishing Maverick (LOSS 0-2)
This was so frustrating because I was at 3-1 and If I clinch this round I am so much closer to 5-1 and top 8. G1 wasn't much of a game, he gets a natural Jitte on turn 3 with some small dorks that attack me and makes my Shamans and Bobs obsolete. I desperately need an Abrupt Decay or Vindicate to get in the game. I don't, and my discard is useless because he's empty handed by turn 4. Game 2 goes much the same, I don't know how to sideboard, I should have boarded in Surgical for PFire in retrospect, but instead I just board in Persecution and Deluge. He lands a Scavenging Ooze after getting Grove/Fires active and it's a bloodbath when he starts activating Knight with Scryb Ranger a couple times a turn. Yuck. I really need to practice this matchup, and it's one where I really felt the 3rd Abrupt Decay would have been really great. Maybe dropping BSkull to the sideboard is correct so I can squeeze it in.
R6 - New Miracles (WIN 2-1)
Game 1 is decided by 3 copies of Terminus, even in the face of Lingering Souls. I don't get more than 2 tokens out to pressure Jace, but it never kills him. He Entreats for 6 angels while I'm at 18 and I scoop. G2 He spins his wheels, I get t1 Deathrite, and then I go back to back with Bob/Library. Bob eats a Swords to Plowshares but Library resolves (one of my best cards in this matchup!) I Thoughtseize away a Snapcaster and windmill Choke while he's tapped out. I land a Goyf, then he scoops when I land Liliana. G3 goes much the same, only he goes even riskier/deeper against a potential Choke, casting 2 Ponders and a Portent on t3, and I of course have the choke. We both mulligan to 5 this game, but my 5 murdered his 5. He's a little salty after getting Choked out of the game, and the Wasteland on his only white source (Tundra) was probably the final nail in the coffin. Choke reminds me how much of a blowout it can be, and Sculler was BOSS in this matchup. I don't remember all the details but I took a Terminus, StP, and Snapcaster Mage over the 3 games. It seemed bad in the face of Terminus, but it bought me time to start stacking powerful 2-drops to overwhelm him. I faced this matchup with Top a bunch of times and the real lesson I learned was to be patient with threats. Dig in incrementally and save them in hand for post-Terminus. Discard goes for STP/Snaps, counterspells if I need to land Library or Choke.
So a fun day, my tie-breakers make it so I squeak into 16th (Maverick player made top 8.) I get $30, so essentially giving me back my entry fee, but I opt for store credit at $37.50 (easy decision.)
The cards I was impressed with over the day: Sculler and Choke. I'm convinced these are not just pet cards, but useful and good. The cards I was not impressed with over the day: Batterskull, Vindicate, and Swords to Plowshares. Even though the format is very fair right now, I feel like 4 copies of STP might be a little too much. This might be where I add the 3rd Decay, but I'm already clogged at the 2 spot (20!) so I don't think this would be great as far as curve goes. It might just need to be a concession to need. I could also see dropping the Vindicate for the 3rd Decay. Vindicate is a pet card, and the only reason I played it was to have a maindeck answer to Jace/PW's/permanents that Decay doesn't hit.
What I would change: Take out the Vindicate for 3rd Decay, maybe drop the Batterskull to the sideboard for Burn/matchups where I want more beefy threats like Maverick and blue mid-range decks. If I can buy/trade into a SoFI I think I will and play that main over BSkull. Goofy is the real deal for beats, and in every game it was at least a 4/5, and sometimes 5/6 or better in the matchups where it counts. I'm definitely keeping this as my main Legacy deck; this reminded me how much fun discard into Tarmo-SMASH can be. A friend asked me what I'm playing yesterday, and I said 'Tarmogoyf combo. I pay 2 mana and get a 5/6.'
Brainstorm Realist
I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner
Brainstorm Realist
I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner
I don't think a fringe card from 2000 is going to make the cut. My experience is that land drops are important, so discarding a spare land is usually a no-go. If it's late game and we have enough lands we could just hardcast a more relevant card like Abrupt Decay/Maelstrom Pulse/Vindicate. If it's early game, I don't think we want to be cutting our mana supply off for the sake of a 'free' spell. Why would you want it over Abrupt Decay? In my experience, Decay is just plain better overall at dealing with Stoneforge, Chalice, or Moon. If they get a t1 Moon on the play, well, lucky them. I'm not going to play Abolish for the miniscule amount of situations like that. Chalice/Moon is very prevalent in my metagame and that's why I have moved to 3 maindeck Decays. I am debating sideboard Krosan Grip, but I think I'll stick to Maelstrom Pulse. Once I know that they are playing Moon I obviously fetch basics around that and prioritize Deathrite Shaman.
TL;DR - Rock isn't in the market for conditional cards for tempo. It needs individually powerful cards you can rely on to do the best job. Loam decks are a different animal, as you hinted at.
Brainstorm Realist
I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner
https://magic.wizards.com/en/article...nge-2018-02-26
Someone copied my exact 75 and got 30th!
It's a great deck choice in the current metagame. It has decent matchups against most of the fair decks.
Brainstorm Realist
I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner
When 30% of the field is Delver decks, oh yeah!
Another good finish in a small tournament, pretty standard rock-fare. I like the Ramanup Excavator/Dryad Arbor/GSZ singletons, it allows a slightly bigger ramp game plan, similar to Maverick. I like my Scullers too much to sacrifice slots, but this is still a solid option.
http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=18728&d=317046&f=LE
Brainstorm Realist
I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner
Debating taking Rock to a 1k on 6/16. I still don't have a SoFI, which is my biggest reservation. I got 16th out of around 70 players in the last 1K, deck felt good. This may be my last opportunity to play Deathrite Shaman in a sanctioned tournament, depending on the next announcement in July.
4x Deathrite Shaman
4x Dark Confidant
4x Tarmogoyf
2x Stoneforge Mystic
2x Tidehollow Sculler
3x Thoughtseize
1x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Swords to Plowshares
3x Abrupt Decay
3x Hymn to Tourach
2x Liliana of the Veil
1x Umezawa's Jitte
1x Batterskull
2x Sylvan Library
2x Lingering Souls
4x Wasteland
4x Verdant Catacombs
3x Windswept Heath
1x Marsh Flats
2x Scrubland
1x Bayou
1x Savannah
2x Swamp
1x Forest
1x Plains
1x Karakas
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
Sideboard
2x Ethersworn Canonist
1x Containment Priest
2x Surgical Extraction
1x Maelstrom Pulse
2x Choke
1x Nihil Spellbomb
2x Pithing Needle
1x Toxic Deluge
1x Diabolic Edict
2x Zealous Persectution
Thoughts are welcome! This is typically my go-to deck for tournaments, I'm very comfortable piloting it. I have some new toys with Liliana, the Last Hope, but I'm not sure it fits in this deck. I could drop a Library for it, but I love Library against the blue decks.
Brainstorm Realist
I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner
Looks like a solid list. I would obviously make minor tweaks here and there but thats just because our lists are just different (I havent changed my 75). Good luck and definitely write up a report! I would look forward to it.
Of note: There are some numbers I can overlook but 1 Bayou is something I cant write off. Getting it Wastelanded early and having multiple double B spells in the deck makes it a risky play. I run 3 Bayou, and you should run at least 2.
I would love to have a 2nd Bayou, but I don't own one. I've tried Overgrown Tomb before, but it just isn't the same. It's the biggest reason why I always include an Urborg in the mana-base, due to the double-black requirements.
@Megadeus: I think there are three distinct ways to approach The Rock if a deathrite ban happens.
1) Go bigger, like Maverick/Nic Fit with GSZ
2) Go wider, like Deadguy Ale + Souls/Bitterblossom
3) Go leaner, like Death and Taxes using cards like Mother of Runes, Tidehollow Sculler.
I am already playing Rhino Fit atm, probably going to use it at the tournament instead of Rock. Sword of Fire and Ice is a pretty important card in my metagame, and I don't have one. My inclination is to go with the 3rd option if I was dedicated to playing a rock-style deck, I love Tidehollow Sculler and Mother of runes. I could play Slow Depths, but without DRS that version suffers even worse than The Rock.
Brainstorm Realist
I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner
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