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Thread: Natural Order and its Viability in Legacy?

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    Natural Order and its Viability in Legacy?

    Up until recently, I've noticed that a lot of players in my local meta just scrapped the idea of being able to answer early Progenituses. Therefore my thoughts have gone along the line of creating a deck that packs NO into Prog or even control elements as Woodfall Primus.

    Would this be a wise call? The only problem I face within my thoughts to execute this plan is whether or not the deck would be fast enough to obtain 2GG and a green creature.

    First I thought of implementing the NO "I win button" in a classical build of Elves since they're well know for their fast mana production and easy access creatures... But it feels like that strategy lacks interaction with the opponent and in the long run won't cut it.
    After this I considered a more controllish build with Dryad Arbors, Fetch, Wall of Roots and Cabal Therapies, but that build strikes me as a non-aggressive deck that might not be able to seal the deal as quick or being able to keep pressure on the opponent.

    Anyone else that have been thinking in these lines? I know that everyone is either playing their SotF + VV decks and bashing head or piloting their petdecks and waiting for the Ban hammer on SotF.
    My thought is, instead of crying rivers about the pet decks or waiting for the ban/restricted list, we could evolve and create some new decks. And since my meta has no direct way to handle fast Progenitalia except for maybe Perish, I feel that it might be a good way to progress.

    Would be happy to hear your thoughts, fellow Sourcers... Peace out.

  2. #2

    Re: Natural Order and it's viability in Legacy?

    This deck has existed for months if not years. It's called NO Bant. It typically runs a CB/Top shell. I don't know that it is particularly effective against Vengevines or why it would be.
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    Re: Natural Order and it's viability in Legacy?

    Quote Originally Posted by CorpT View Post
    This deck has existed for months if not years. It's called NO Bant. It typically runs a CB/Top shell. I don't know that it is particularly effective against Vengevines or why it would be.
    I'm not saying that NO decks doesn't exist. I know that NO Bant exists and it's one out of many approaches on a deck.
    There are a vast amount of options when tailoring/building decks, therefore an open discussion here.
    I want input rather than "it exists... 1 deck... go play it."

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    Re: Natural Order and it's viability in Legacy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hawdes View Post
    I'm not saying that NO decks doesn't exist. I know that NO Bant exists and it's one out of many approaches on a deck.
    There are a vast amount of options when tailoring/building decks, therefore an open discussion here.
    I want input rather than "it exists... 1 deck... go play it."
    the only shells where you're going to play NO with fairly success are PRObant and survival elf. The first can provide some good disrupt to support your NO, while the second has a strong aggro plan with NO backup. Another good shell in wich you have to play NO is MGCA aka monoG chalice aggro....it drops NO quite often on turn 2-3.
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    Re: Natural Order and it's viability in Legacy?

    I think the rise of Vengevival has put Progenitus out of favor. When I first started playing Vengevival, I played against a Progenitus deck on MWS. My opponent powered out a turn three Progenitus on the play, but I was still able to outrace him by bringing out three Vengevines on my turn three and then flying over with all four the next turn. It's more appealing to win with a card that costs 1G as opposed to one that costs 2GG, when the cheaper card wins for you faster. Maybe if Survival is banned and the format slows down, Progenitus will become a good option again.
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    Re: Natural Order and it's viability in Legacy?

    I think the rise of Vengevival has put Progenitus out of favor. When I first started playing Vengevival, I played against a Progenitus deck on MWS. My opponent powered out a turn three Progenitus on the play, but I was still able to outrace him by bringing out three Vengevines on my turn three and then flying over with all four the next turn. It's more appealing to win with a card that costs 1G as opposed to one that costs 2GG, when the cheaper card wins for you faster. Maybe if Survival is banned and the format slows down, Progenitus will become a good option again.
    This. In fact, I'd go as far to say that the deck that can most effectively use NOProg is Survival.

    Force my T2 Survival? Fine, untap, NO, saccing Hierarch, Prog. G2?
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    Re: Natural Order and it's viability in Legacy?

    You could try NO and Show and Tell at the same deck, with Hierarch
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    Re: Natural Order and it's viability in Legacy?

    I have been messing around with a midrange green based deck for a post Survival metagame. It runs Intuition/Vengevine/Natural Order/Heirarchs/Bops. It has good game vs Aggro and control but sucks against combo. I'm not going to post a list as ity's untunned and depends on Survival being banned, but it's a start if you want to brew.
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    Re: Natural Order and it's viability in Legacy?

    Problem with Natural Order in this metagame:

    Perish
    Hibernation

    Natural Order is already a green creature deck. Getting a big fat green creature that still dies/nullified by Green Creature hate doesn't seem to get much accomplished.
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    Re: Natural Order and it's viability in Legacy?

    Quote Originally Posted by rukcus View Post
    Problem with Natural Order in this metagame:

    Perish
    Hibernation

    Natural Order is already a green creature deck. Getting a big fat green creature that still dies/nullified by Green Creature hate doesn't seem to get much accomplished.
    To partially nullify this would be to run great amounts of Woodfall Primuses and/or other ETB creatures. Woodfall isn't that bad since he Persists aswell.

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    Re: Natural Order and it's viability in Legacy?

    Basically, wait three weeks. Then Perish and Hibernation will partially go away, then Natural Order gets a lot better.

    Also, Woodfall Primus is way too underwhelming for a two-card, walk into 2-for-1 combo. It was sexy with Sneak Attack, but less so with NO. You need to drop Progenitus, Terastodon, or possibly even Liege of the Tangle. Or you can do what one guy I saw did. Run it in the same deck as Painter's Stone, then if you have a Painter's Servant out, Natural Order some mana guy into Emrakul or Iona. He also ran Elvish Piper as a backup trick.

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    Re: Natural Order and it's viability in Legacy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tacosnape View Post
    Or you can do what one guy I saw did. Run it in the same deck as Painter's Stone, then if you have a Painter's Servant out, Natural Order some mana guy into Emrakul or Iona. He also ran Elvish Piper as a backup trick.

    Regardless of viability, that is nothing short of awesome.

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  13. #13

    Re: Natural Order and it's viability in Legacy?

    LOL tacosnape that is hilarious....painter's servant naming green. It DOES matter lol.

    Also I agree with tacosnape on you waiting 3 weeks. Hibernation and perish wreck progenitus plan and if you name green and they play hibernation, the board is reset and you'll never combo. Same with perish; they basically WoG for 2B.

    Also love the liege of the tangle idea. Especially because I have a foil one
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    Re: Natural Order and it's viability in Legacy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Ritual View Post
    LOL tacosnape that is hilarious....painter's servant naming green. It DOES matter lol.

    Also I agree with tacosnape on you waiting 3 weeks. Hibernation and perish wreck progenitus plan and if you name green and they play hibernation, the board is reset and you'll never combo. Same with perish; they basically WoG for 2B.

    Also love the liege of the tangle idea. Especially because I have a foil one
    Basically, waiting 3 weeks means that I'll might dodge Survival hate (since it might get banned or whatever). But it doesn't actually matter since no one over here even plays the VV-Survival deck. It's not that well spread to be honest.
    But I understand where people are going. Might aswell lay low and just wait for it :)

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