Format Discussion - The Ban List

[dahcmai]

Oh Land Tax would. I know exactly the deck I would put it in already and it's pretty competitive as is. It screams for that card so much.

[emidln]

I'd like to see Frantic Search come off to give me something else to goldfish besides Tendrils. 12 cantrip Spring Tide with Scrolls would be an absolute blast. As is, relying on Cloud of Faeries/Snap is sketchy.

[FieryBalrog]

Mind Twist wouldn't be played, at least not by anyone trying to win. It was banned from Vintage in 1996 and then unbanned in 2000 and finally unrestricted in 2007. Mind Twist was relevant back when you could stall the game out with Moat or whatever for a million turns and then build up a googleplex mana to discard your opponent's whole hand with counter backup and then cast a Serra Angel and swing 5 times. These days we have what, 3 different 1-mana discard spells that let you see your opponents' hand? I really doubt there's any deck that actually wants Mind Twist. Unban it til someone proves me wrong.

Mind's Desire would be fucked in half retarded good. I'm pretty sure this doesn't need to be debated, but playing a bunch of spells for free is good.


And so is drawing cards for negative mana cost. You don't need Fastbond to make Gush stupid, you just need a storm combo deck with Islands. Oh hay thar TES. The fact that it both produces mana AND draws cards on Turn 3 is what makes it so clearly in need of staying banned.

Land Tax is so weak it's hilarious. Deck Parfait was never designed to handle Storm combo. I'd love to see it try, though. Unban.

Library of Alexandria might be able to be unbanned. It's a nonbasic land, it's got a very strong restriction, and the fact there just aren't that many of them will keep it from ever becoming a huge problem.

Mana Drain is my personal pet card that couldn't possibly HURT Legacy. Nobody in this format hardcasts counterspells that cost more than U, because all of them suck. All of them. This one doesn't. Why can't we play with the jellyfishes? Because I might actually have enough mana to Mindslaver someone? :(

Blue definitely doesn't need a boost and we don't need to discourage people even more from playing high CC spells. Also I don't want to pay another $300 to play a control deck.

[dontbiteitholmes]

Oh Land Tax would. I know exactly the deck I would put it in already and it's pretty competitive as is. It screams for that card so much.

LOL, decklist please.

[Meekrab]

Blue definitely doesn't need a boost and we don't need to discourage people even more from playing high CC spells. Also I don't want to pay another $300 to play a control deck.

You say 'blue' doesn't need a boost like Landstill or Solidarity are running over the format. Tempo decks can't really play Mana Drain. In a vacuum, I understand the objection to 'making blue stronger' but the type of 'blue' decks that are dominant right now wouldn't have much use for a card that requires them to keep UU open to be useful. And nobody cares about your budget, least of all the DCI, or they would've banned Goyf, Jace, Grim Tutor, and dual lands already.

[JamieW89]

I'm all for unbanning alot of cards. I'd prefer a more combo/control based metagame anyways.

[dahcmai]

I really hate dealing with Mana Drain. That card is just scary. If you get the wrong thing countered, it just blows you out of the water. I used to purposely hit Force of will just to get that 5 mana. I don't want to see that thing in Legacy and I own a set. I played enough Vintage to know how strong it is.

[emidln]

Not can tempo decks like Thresh and Team America play Mana Drain, but they will use their drain mana to enable casting Jace.

[jazzykat]

Mana Drain might be too powerful with the printing of Jace 2.0. Without Jace2.0 I would have said what the heck, but now that I fully get how insane he is and how any extra colorless can be used to pay Daze and Spell Pierce I am not sure if it can get the nod and I have a full english NM playset as well!

Gush is quite interesting though and may open up some interesting design space with Exploration/Fastbond, along the Coatl/Dryad traditional routes, or with the landfall mechanic. Honestly, I would love to see it unbanned assuming it wouldn't cause anything too degenerate to shake out. I mean we do have Vengevival, what's a little Gush action?

[Volrath]

Mana Drain into Fact or Fiction is downright frightening. Drain inot Jace 2.0 is devastating.
The horror's that will come to pass if Drain is unbanned are terrifying, keep it there.

Tax and Earthcraft on the other hand, shoud come of.But i'm yust the 10000000th guy mentioning it

[FieryBalrog]

And nobody cares about your budget, least of all the DCI

Too bad for you mana drain continues to be banned then.

[Rico Suave]

Haha people suggest the most ridiculous things to unban. Mind's Desire? Library? Mana Drain? You have no idea what you're smoking if you think any of these should be allowed in the Legacy format.

[Lemnear]

Yeah ban Survival and unleash Desire ... that will balance the format *facepalm*

[menace13]

Haha people suggest the most ridiculous things to unban. Mind's Desire? Library? Mana Drain? You have no idea what you're smoking if you think any of these should be allowed in the Legacy format.

Pff. Those are perfectly fine as long as Bazaar,Oath and Mystical are there.

[JCLe]

I really don't feel like seeing mind twist unbanned, it will see play in TES (sb) or storm post sb, where dark ritual/LED + mind twist becomes card advantage...

Frantic search in spring tide would indeed be quite a blast !, If they ban a piece of survival it will re-balance anyway : they could realistically unban frantic search with the resurgence of CB decks / merfolk.

[anonymos]

Honestly, I'd love to see no changes made one way or the other. I think that would be Wizards way of going "you broke your format, now fix it so we don't have to". It'd give us another chance to stop whining and knock survival off it's horse.

[TheDarkshineKnight]

Oh Land Tax would. I know exactly the deck I would put it in already and it's pretty competitive as is. It screams for that card so much.

DID SOMEBODY SAY QUINN?

I thought I heard someone say Quinn. >_>

[javert]

Why is Skullclamp still in the ban list? Much like Mind twist or Hypnotic specter, the decks that use Skullclamp aren't the ultimate brokeness anymore. Affinity is no longer the most scary aggro deck and now even one - drops have two or three thoughness. Although the card draw is undeniably good, by the time it becomes a relevant engine in Legacy it's already the late game and the deck looks midrange. Against any good combo deck, Skullclamp is a card as dead as Jitte and against control skullclamp wouldn't help a lot once a Countertop lock or some powerful enchantment like Moat is online. Elves remain as the most likely suspect to abuse it but, hey if even with Glimpse it's a laughable deck then having just another redundant card won't make it that much better. If it became tier 1, would it be bad to have another deck joining the gaunglet?

[edgarps22]

I can tell you from experience that Elves plus Skullclamp = bad idea for legacy. Glimpse might seem like its strong, but trust me when I say that Skullclamp would be much much much worse. Skullclamp + Wirewood Herald + active Priest of Titania + any number of elves in play equals game in the blink of an eye as they can hit critical mass by turn 4, stop combo with chalices, and stomp on any countertop strategy before it really gets the chance to set up.

[Meekrab]

I really don't feel like seeing mind twist unbanned, it will see play in TES (sb) or storm post sb, where dark ritual/LED + mind twist becomes card advantage...

Dark Ritual into Mind Twist? Really?

I'm just going to pretend you didn't suggest using LED to cast Mind Twist, because that's even funnier.