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Thread: Gb Vengevine Aggro

  1. #1
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    Gb Vengevine Aggro

    Ok, Survival was banned, and yet, Vengevine still got its tricks. GW Survival was played without the need of blue, and I think it can still be done, but instead of , the trick now is to play and and use Burried Alive to flood the Grave with Vengevines.

    Here's a raw idea, to start with:

    // Lands
    1 Swamp
    2 Forest
    4 Bayou
    2 Polluted Delta
    4 Windswept Heath
    4 Verdant Catacombs

    // Creatures
    2 Big Game Hunter
    1 Genesis
    4 Wild Mongrel
    2 Arrogant Wurm
    4 Tarmogoyf
    4 Putrid Imp
    4 Basking Rootwalla
    4 Vengevine
    4 Birds of Paradise

    // Spells
    3 Umezawa's Jitte
    4 Cabal Therapy
    3 Thoughtseize
    4 Buried Alive

    Basically, Madness tools with PImp and Mongrel, droping Rootwalla, Wurm and BGH.
    Burried Alive puts VV into grave, and it won't be hard to recover it with that large amount of creatures
    Jitte back-up the aggro and kills the stuff BGH cannot.
    Tarmogoyf just happened to be standing there, for some reason...

    It can use a lot of other stuffs, but this is the raw idea. Any good? Thoughts?

    PS: Didn't want to post it under UG Madness because, well, it isn't UG Madness. But Hanni had the idea of using Buried Alive there, I just extended.
    Last edited by Gui; 12-22-2010 at 11:39 AM.
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  2. #2
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    Re: Gb Vengevine Aggro

    I like thebase idea of VV /w Intuition, Buried Alive or even Entomb instead of Survival. You could easily splash blue just for Intuition to get a little more utility, like grabbing 3 Jittes or Therapies...

    Before you actually start building the deck, it's probably worth thinking about good piles for Intuition/Buried Alive.

    Just brainstorming here:

    3 Vengevine <- Obvious pile is obvious, you gotta be able to play 2 Creature spells next turn to actually make use of it.

    2 Vengevine, 1 Wonder <- Breaking creature stalls, a little bit better with Buried Alive (need discard outlet for Intuition)

    2 Vengevine, 1 Genesis <- When you have a lot of mana but only one creature in your hand this gives you an additional creature to trigger VV, plus a lot of lategame power. Best vs. controllish decks obviously.

    3 Therapies <- Only fetchable with Intuition, but very strong vs combo and control. You need some recurrable creatures to fully use this package.

    2 Therapies, 1 Bloodghast <-Let's you cast Therapy at least 2 times, if you have a land to play. Better than 3 Therapies, if you have nothing going on other than some beatstick and really need the discard. Intuition only.

    3 Bloodghast <- If you don't have creatures to trigger VV or your VVs have been removed. Like above, Wonder added to the pile let's you fly above groundpounders, but doesn't seem so strong here b/c ofthe lacking power.

    1 Genesis, 1 Big Game Hunter/Shriekmaw, 1 other creature <- Controllish pile against creature decks, let's you cast Shriekmaw all over again or at least 1x BGH + you other creature at some point.

    There are probably more good piles, but that's all I can think of right now.

    I would probably start at 4 Intuition, x Buried Alive, 4 Therapy and then a set of creatures containing at least 4 VV, 3 Bloodghast, 1 Genesis, 1 Shriekmaw, 1 BGH, perhaps 1 Wonder.
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  3. #3
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    Re: Gb Vengevine Aggro

    The funny thing is ritual->Buried Alive->VV is the fastest VV combo currently. The only issue is unlike Vengevival, it's not worth the 8 card slots (BA, Ritual) to power out the VV. Survival was just 4 cards, and enabled a back-up plan or combo plan.

    But I'm not against the idea of a non Survival VV deck, I think it's viable, just needs to work on minimizing clunk. VV is still a problematic creature in Legacy since it behaves very differently from the species of creatures we've seen in Legacy.

  4. #4
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    Re: Gb Vengevine Aggro

    I think Arrogant Wurm is a dead card. Cabal Therapy is not very effective here since you don't want to sac your creatures.
    I think Dark Ritual can go mad here. Bloodghast can be a cute version of VV. And you need drawer. Maybe Bob or Sylvan Library.

  5. #5
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    Re: Gb Vengevine Aggro

    G/B BAVV
    Aggro Vengevine

    // Lands
    4 [ZEN] Verdant Catacombs
    2 [ON] Wooded Foothills
    2 [ON] Bloodstained Mire
    4 [R] Bayou
    2 [UNH] Forest
    2 [UNH] Swamp
    4 [TE] Wasteland

    // Creatures
    4 [7E] Birds of Paradise
    4 [TO] Basking Rootwalla
    4 [TO] Putrid Imp
    4 [FNM] Wild Mongrel
    4 [ROE] Vengevine
    4 [ZEN] Bloodghast

    // Spells
    4 [LRW] Thoughtseize
    4 [FNM] Cabal Therapy
    4 [OD] Entomb
    4 [OD] Buried Alive

    // Sideboard
    SB: 4 [MR] Chalice of the Void
    SB: 4 [PLC] Extirpate
    SB: 3 [MM] Snuff Out
    SB: 2 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
    SB: 2 [TSP] Krosan Grip

    I started a thread for G/B/r, and then came up with this list too, so I figured I'd post it here since this thread is for straight G/B.
    Last edited by Hanni; 12-22-2010 at 08:31 PM.
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  6. #6
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    Re: Gb Vengevine Aggro

    Sans Survival, viable Vengevine decks (if possible) will rely upon (as far as percentage of matches) grinding out matchups with less flashy recursion. A single 4/3 Haster is still a real pain in the ass, even if it is RFGable, etc. Vengevine may still see play, imho.

    I'm actually not convinced, after testing, that buried alive is really worth it. I really don't care for it -- it is a midgame card, and it is really mediocre. Too often, it isn't realistic to have 2 creatures for post Buried alive. Entomb, which has so many more practical functions, I can see.

    Bloodghast has been pretty decent. My list is very close to Hanni's.

    -4 Cabal Therapy (despite the obvious synergy with recursion)
    +4 Inquisition

    If you do choose Therapy, it will require Bloodghast.

    -4 Buried Alive
    +4 Dark Confidant

    I'm also on the fence about equipment. I've enjoyed lifegain and removal provided by Jitte and Collar.




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  7. #7
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    Re: Gb Vengevine Aggro

    Buried Alive is the stone cold nuts, do not cut it. Especially if you drop it on turn 2 via Birds of Paradise. You can grab either 3 Bloodghast or 3 Vengevine, depending on what your hand is like. On the following turn, your putting all 3 into play (plus 2+ more guys if you're triggering Vengevine). Trust me dude, it adds explosiveness, consistency, and straight up wins games.

    4 Entomb and 4 Buried Alive is the engine this deck runs off of.

    As far as Cabal Therapy is concerned, I'm still testing it. I like that it can be tutor'd for via Entomb/Buried Alive, and is the stone cold nuts with Bloodghast. However, Inquisition is likely better in certain matchups. I'll get back to my thoughts on it once I do more playtesting.

    I'm playing 3 different Vengevine variations at the moment, and trying to do equal playtesting with all 3. Any way you slice it though, Vengevine is bah-rokennnn.
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  8. #8
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    Re: Gb Vengevine Aggro

    For quick Vine beats, why not run Oona's Prowler?
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  9. #9
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    Re: Gb Vengevine Aggro

    For quick Vine beats, why not run Oona's Prowler?
    Nice suggestion. I'll have to see whether I like Wild Mongrel or Oona's Prowler better in playtesting.
    Blue Sligh

    Quote Originally Posted by MMogg View Post
    In porn terms, Zoo has a 11" shlong and an impressive money shot, but it's over in 4 minutes, whereas Landstill is a good 8" and can go for 30 minutes.

  10. #10
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    Re: Gb Vengevine Aggro

    I originally did have buried alive (and will test it again). It really hasn't been impressive in the games I've played. Confidant has always been a straight bomb. It is a removable, beatdown Darksteel Reactor for half the mana cost and generally (after a certain amount of advantage) guarantees a win after 4-5 turns (rather than 20), imho.

    As far as Cabal Therapy is concerned, I'm still testing it. I like that it can be tutor'd for via Entomb/Buried Alive
    Buried Alive cannot tutor Therapy into your GY.

    Regarding Prowler, I doubt it will ever replace Mongrel. Mongrel wins a lot of combat wars. I wouldn't want to replace Mongrel with it. If Bloodghast could block, I wouldn't care so much. Mongrel's ability to block (and live) is one of its major strengths. I have no idea what merits replacing. PImp is the tits, also a no-go.



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  11. #11
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    Re: Gb Vengevine Aggro

    Buried Alive cannot tutor Therapy into your GY.
    =] Good thing I didn't try to do this yet, reading ftw I guess.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMogg View Post
    In porn terms, Zoo has a 11" shlong and an impressive money shot, but it's over in 4 minutes, whereas Landstill is a good 8" and can go for 30 minutes.

  12. #12

    Re: Gb Vengevine Aggro

    This deck is a blast to play. I threw in Dark Confidant to ease the weight on the Vengevine trigger. Bridge from Below is in the sideboard to fight against sweepers for the Entomb toolbox.
    // Lands
    2 [MPR] Wasteland
    2 [BRB] Swamp (2)
    2 [ROE] Forest (4)
    4 [B] Bayou
    2 [ON] Bloodstained Mire
    2 [JGC] Wooded Foothills
    4 [ZEN] Verdant Catacombs

    // Creatures
    1 [FNM] Wonder
    4 [ROE] Vengevine
    4 [FNM] Basking Rootwalla
    2 [TO] Putrid Imp
    4 [RAV] Dark Confidant
    4 [LRW] Oona's Prowler
    4 [8E] Birds of Paradise
    4 [ZEN] Bloodghast

    // Spells
    4 [WL] Buried Alive
    4 [OD] Entomb
    4 [LRW] Thoughtseize
    4 [FE] Hymn to Tourach

    // Sideboard
    SB: 3 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
    SB: 1 [EVE] Worm Harvest
    SB: 1 [RAV] Life from the Loam
    SB: 1 [FUT] Bridge from Below
    SB: 3 [FNM] Tormod's Crypt
    SB: 3 [ARB] Maelstrom Pulse
    SB: 2 [FUT] Slaughter Pact
    SB: 1 [JU] Genesis

  13. #13
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    Re: Gb Vengevine Aggro

    This looks interesting, Vine is still a stupid card to play against and as mentioned above even a single free uncounterable 4/3 hasted beatstick on turn 2/3 must be answered by a lot of decks.

    Have any of you tried fitting in Reanimate and small Iona,Archon,Inkwell Package? Possibly with Fauna Shaman to help. Might be too cute and clumsy, maybe better off in some blue black shell instead, was simply curious.

    Edit: @Greenpoe- Entomb on Bridge vs sweepers removal sounds good. Why not Cabal to get free tokens off?
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    Re: Gb Vengevine Aggro

    what about fauna shaman. it seems like it could be good here

  15. #15
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    Re: Gb Vengevine Aggro

    @ Greenpoe

    Wonder's effect requires that you control an island. You lack islands.

    @ obituary 95

    what about fauna shaman.
    Testing it. Like confidant, it only takes a few turns for it to get out of control. Likewise, it also has a huge target on its head. The nice part is that is that it helps you get 2 creatures(for VV triggers) in one turn with Rootwalla from an empty hand. Squee is actually very strong with the card as well.

    Maximizing the number of creatures in the deck is more important when you lack Survival. This is a bonus to the card.



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  16. #16
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    Re: Gb Vengevine Aggro

    brawn might be fun against a lot of stuff out there.
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  17. #17
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    Re: Gb Vengevine Aggro

    Fauna Shaman is incredibly slow. The reason why these newer versions are more deadly than the Survival version, is because they are 1-2 turns faster. Fauna Shaman is just a bad Survival.

    Brawn isn't that good in here. Giving trample to 2/1's, 2/2's, and 4/3's isn't very impressive.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMogg View Post
    In porn terms, Zoo has a 11" shlong and an impressive money shot, but it's over in 4 minutes, whereas Landstill is a good 8" and can go for 30 minutes.

  18. #18
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    Re: Gb Vengevine Aggro

    I was thinking it could be fun in the tribal/affinity/zoo/sligh/etc matches but was thinking more about trampling the vengevines. but yeah intentionally pumping bloodghast with trample is pretty sad.

    Edit; what about Riftstone Portal as an entomb target?
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  19. #19

    Re: Gb Vengevine Aggro

    Filth is a good SB slot vs any black deck. Unblockable Blooghasts is very useful.

  20. #20
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    Re: Gb Vengevine Aggro

    I say, this sure would be a great place for some Genesis-Spore Frog combo.
    Also, a new deck idea warrants me making a crappy, inconsistent version of it.
    WOOOOO!
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    Lands (22)
    1 Forest
    1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    3 Verdant Catacombs
    1 Volrath's Stronghold
    1 Dark Depths
    3 Bayou
    4 Swamp
    1 Tropical Island
    1 Underground Sea
    3 Misty Rainforest
    3 Wasteland

    Creatures (26)
    1 Vampire Hexmage
    2 Shriekmaw
    3 Vengevine
    1 Wonder
    2 Basking Rootwalla
    3 Bloodghast
    4 Birds of Paradise
    1 Krovikan Horror
    1 Genesis
    4 Tarmogoyf
    4 Putrid Imp

    Noncreatures (12)
    4 Tortured Existence
    1 Life from the Loam
    3 Buried Alive
    4 Intuition


    Sideboard
    1 Filth
    4 Cabal Therapy
    4 Tormod's Crypt
    4 Krosan Grip
    2?

    I feel like Intuition is better than BA, but I could be wrong.
    Besides, you can't Buried Alive for Herpmage, Dark Derps, and Life from the Loam.
    Also, if you run Loam and Intuition, I'd say it might be worth sacrificing 2 slots for the Herpmage Derps combo.
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