Gb Vengevine Aggro

[Gui]

Ok, Survival was banned, and yet, Vengevine still got its tricks. GW Survival was played without the need of blue, and I think it can still be done, but instead of , the trick now is to play and and use Burried Alive to flood the Grave with Vengevines.

Here's a raw idea, to start with:

// Lands
1 Swamp
2 Forest
4 Bayou
2 Polluted Delta
4 Windswept Heath
4 Verdant Catacombs

// Creatures
2 Big Game Hunter
1 Genesis
4 Wild Mongrel
2 Arrogant Wurm
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Putrid Imp
4 Basking Rootwalla
4 Vengevine
4 Birds of Paradise

// Spells
3 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Thoughtseize
4 Buried Alive

Basically, Madness tools with PImp and Mongrel, droping Rootwalla, Wurm and BGH.
Burried Alive puts VV into grave, and it won't be hard to recover it with that large amount of creatures
Jitte back-up the aggro and kills the stuff BGH cannot.
Tarmogoyf just happened to be standing there, for some reason...

It can use a lot of other stuffs, but this is the raw idea. Any good? Thoughts?

PS: Didn't want to post it under UG Madness because, well, it isn't UG Madness. But Hanni had the idea of using Buried Alive there, I just extended.

[fallenphoenix]

I like thebase idea of VV /w Intuition, Buried Alive or even Entomb instead of Survival. You could easily splash blue just for Intuition to get a little more utility, like grabbing 3 Jittes or Therapies...

Before you actually start building the deck, it's probably worth thinking about good piles for Intuition/Buried Alive.

Just brainstorming here:

3 Vengevine <- Obvious pile is obvious, you gotta be able to play 2 Creature spells next turn to actually make use of it.

2 Vengevine, 1 Wonder <- Breaking creature stalls, a little bit better with Buried Alive (need discard outlet for Intuition)

2 Vengevine, 1 Genesis <- When you have a lot of mana but only one creature in your hand this gives you an additional creature to trigger VV, plus a lot of lategame power. Best vs. controllish decks obviously.

3 Therapies <- Only fetchable with Intuition, but very strong vs combo and control. You need some recurrable creatures to fully use this package.

2 Therapies, 1 Bloodghast <-Let's you cast Therapy at least 2 times, if you have a land to play. Better than 3 Therapies, if you have nothing going on other than some beatstick and really need the discard. Intuition only.

3 Bloodghast <- If you don't have creatures to trigger VV or your VVs have been removed. Like above, Wonder added to the pile let's you fly above groundpounders, but doesn't seem so strong here b/c ofthe lacking power.

1 Genesis, 1 Big Game Hunter/Shriekmaw, 1 other creature <- Controllish pile against creature decks, let's you cast Shriekmaw all over again or at least 1x BGH + you other creature at some point.

There are probably more good piles, but that's all I can think of right now.

I would probably start at 4 Intuition, x Buried Alive, 4 Therapy and then a set of creatures containing at least 4 VV, 3 Bloodghast, 1 Genesis, 1 Shriekmaw, 1 BGH, perhaps 1 Wonder.

[GGoober]

The funny thing is ritual->Buried Alive->VV is the fastest VV combo currently. The only issue is unlike Vengevival, it's not worth the 8 card slots (BA, Ritual) to power out the VV. Survival was just 4 cards, and enabled a back-up plan or combo plan.

But I'm not against the idea of a non Survival VV deck, I think it's viable, just needs to work on minimizing clunk. VV is still a problematic creature in Legacy since it behaves very differently from the species of creatures we've seen in Legacy.

[number88]

I think Arrogant Wurm is a dead card. Cabal Therapy is not very effective here since you don't want to sac your creatures.
I think Dark Ritual can go mad here. Bloodghast can be a cute version of VV. And you need drawer. Maybe Bob or Sylvan Library.

[Hanni]

G/B BAVV
Aggro Vengevine

// Lands
4 [ZEN] Verdant Catacombs
2 [ON] Wooded Foothills
2 [ON] Bloodstained Mire
4 [R] Bayou
2 [UNH] Forest
2 [UNH] Swamp
4 [TE] Wasteland

// Creatures
4 [7E] Birds of Paradise
4 [TO] Basking Rootwalla
4 [TO] Putrid Imp
4 [FNM] Wild Mongrel
4 [ROE] Vengevine
4 [ZEN] Bloodghast

// Spells
4 [LRW] Thoughtseize
4 [FNM] Cabal Therapy
4 [OD] Entomb
4 [OD] Buried Alive

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [MR] Chalice of the Void
SB: 4 [PLC] Extirpate
SB: 3 [MM] Snuff Out
SB: 2 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
SB: 2 [TSP] Krosan Grip

I started a thread for G/B/r, and then came up with this list too, so I figured I'd post it here since this thread is for straight G/B.

[4eak]

Sans Survival, viable Vengevine decks (if possible) will rely upon (as far as percentage of matches) grinding out matchups with less flashy recursion. A single 4/3 Haster is still a real pain in the ass, even if it is RFGable, etc. Vengevine may still see play, imho.

I'm actually not convinced, after testing, that buried alive is really worth it. I really don't care for it -- it is a midgame card, and it is really mediocre. Too often, it isn't realistic to have 2 creatures for post Buried alive. Entomb, which has so many more practical functions, I can see.

Bloodghast has been pretty decent. My list is very close to Hanni's.

-4 Cabal Therapy (despite the obvious synergy with recursion)
+4 Inquisition

If you do choose Therapy, it will require Bloodghast.

-4 Buried Alive
+4 Dark Confidant

I'm also on the fence about equipment. I've enjoyed lifegain and removal provided by Jitte and Collar.




peace,
4eak

[Hanni]

Buried Alive is the stone cold nuts, do not cut it. Especially if you drop it on turn 2 via Birds of Paradise. You can grab either 3 Bloodghast or 3 Vengevine, depending on what your hand is like. On the following turn, your putting all 3 into play (plus 2+ more guys if you're triggering Vengevine). Trust me dude, it adds explosiveness, consistency, and straight up wins games.

4 Entomb and 4 Buried Alive is the engine this deck runs off of.

As far as Cabal Therapy is concerned, I'm still testing it. I like that it can be tutor'd for via Entomb/Buried Alive, and is the stone cold nuts with Bloodghast. However, Inquisition is likely better in certain matchups. I'll get back to my thoughts on it once I do more playtesting.

I'm playing 3 different Vengevine variations at the moment, and trying to do equal playtesting with all 3. Any way you slice it though, Vengevine is bah-rokennnn.

[Fuzzy]

For quick Vine beats, why not run Oona's Prowler?