Hey all.
People many times have commented on a card on the Banned/Restricted list being safe to unban due to power level. Well, I'm curious what decks could you make with now-banned cards, and would they hold up in the format today?
I'd like to propose a deckbuilding challenge by, for a moment, pretending the B/R list was rolled back to 04/05. I'd like to see what some of you can do with the cards still on there, and see if they're decent enough to compete in competitive Legacy in 2010/2011.
First off, some rules:
1) The Banned list for this particular deckbuilding challenge is as follows:
* Amulet of Quoz
* Ancestral Recall
* Balance
* Black Lotus
* Bronze Tablet
*Channel
* Chaos Orb
* Contract from Below
* Darkpact
* Demonic Attorney
* Demonic Consultation
* Demonic Tutor
* Falling Star
* Fastbond
* Flash
* Imperial Seal
* Jeweled Bird
* Mana Crypt
* Mana Vault
* Memory Jar
* Mox Emerald
* Mox Jet
* Mox Pearl
* Mox Ruby
* Mox Sapphire
* Necropotence
* Oath of Druids
* Rebirth
* Shahrazad
* Sol Ring
* Strip Mine
* Tempest Efreet
* Time Vault
* Time Walk
* Timetwister
* Timmerian Fiends
* Tinker
* Tolarian Academy
* Vampiric Tutor
* Wheel of Fortune
* Windfall
* Yawgmoth's Bargain
* Yawgmoth's Will
2) The cards unbanned from the current list are as follows:
Bazaar of Baghdad
Black Vise
Earthcraft
Frantic Search
Goblin Recruiter
Gush
Hermit Druid
Land Tax
Library of Alexandria
Mana Drain
Mind Twist
Mind's Desire
Mishra's Workshop
Mystical Tutor
Skullclamp
Survival of the Fittest
Worldgorger Dragon
3) Try to build decks with one card that's on the current banned list to show off its power, or to show its weakness in today's metagame. Some mixing (ex. Library of Alexandria and Mana Drain in a Landstill shell could be built, but I'd rather you stick to just Drain or just Library).
4) Cards removed from the list that we're trying out can be used with 4 copies, as if it would be unrestricted and unbanned.
5) The decks must be designed to be piloted against the Legacy metagame, not between each other. ex. Don't use one banned card to make a deck that hates out another one for that specific purpose.
6) Have fun! This is for brainstorming and showing why certain cards are on the list, and why some should be taken off. When you post a list, do some explaining and tell us about any testing!
Good luck, and have fun!
-Matt
Last edited by sdematt; 12-29-2010 at 03:38 PM.
That'd be interesting... MUD/Stax would actually be consistent, I could play Bazaar dredge, Tide with Frantic Search and Spiral? See which is truly faster, Survival-Vine or Food Chain goblins...
This could be a fun test, though I have a feeling it will make me bitter and miss old 1.5 a lot more.
Team Albany: What's Legacy?
You cannot know the sweetness of Victory, without first dwelling in the agony of Defeat.
Bazaar really need not apply. LED-Bazaar Dredge will win every turn 1 w/o dedicated hate.
4 Bazaar of Baghdad
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Fatestitcher
etc
West side
Find me on MTGO as Koby or rukcus -- @MTGKoby on Twitter
* Maverick is dead. Long live Maverick!
My Legacy stream
My MTG Blog - Work in progress
Then build it and show me. That's what this is all about.
This is also the first of a few planned deckbuilding challenges, I'm hoping. Depending on how this one goes, I'll post another, and I'm thinking more people will find it a tad more recent ;)
-Matt
Bazaar dredge would be an almost direct port of the vintage list. Most vintage decks pack 6 dedicated slots in their sideboard just for this matchup, and these are decks packing power. It would be format warping to say the least.
Likewise, Mishra's Workshop would enable legacy MUD. Again, it would be format warping and completely ridiculous. No thanks. A black lotus every turn isn't fair in a format like legacy.
4 Bazaar of Baghdad
4 City of Brass
4 Gemstone Mine
3 Fatestitcher
1 Flame-Kin Zealot
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Golgari Thug
4 Ichorid
4 Narcomoeba
1 Sadistic Hypnotist
1 Sphinx of Lost Truths
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Bridge from Below
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Deep Analysis
3 Dread Return
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Serum Powder
http://www.classicquarter.com/decks/...ecklistID=2019
West side
Find me on MTGO as Koby or rukcus -- @MTGKoby on Twitter
* Maverick is dead. Long live Maverick!
My Legacy stream
My MTG Blog - Work in progress
Team Albany: What's Legacy?
You cannot know the sweetness of Victory, without first dwelling in the agony of Defeat.
This format would be a train wreck, I'm sorry. I can't think of any strategy even remotely close to the power level of 4x Trinisphere, 4x Workshop, or 4x Bazaar, 4x LED.
Curious how I became a Magic writer? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onR9Y...eature=channel
I'm not saying all of these are legal at the same time. I'm saying make a deck with one of the cards listed and post a list, to show what cards are weak enough to come off and which are strong enough to stay on. This is what we're trying to see. I mean, Workshop and Trinisphere would be really good, so let's see a decklist. It's fine if it's really good, then we know it needs to stay on the Banned list. I'm more interested in seeing development of weaker cards on the list, or if, for example, Worldgorger combo is still viable. Testing old decks deemed too powerful 5+ years ago against today's metagame, or development of old banned cards with new cards that have come out.
-Matt
Wtf?
Vintage MUD w/o moxen? Hardcore!
Vintage Dredge + 4 LED? Insane!
You throw 2 pieces that define vintage into legacy and suggest keeping all Counter-strategies like tinker, will or oath banned?
What do you expect to happen other than those 2 staples dominate everything with ported vintage lists?
There were many threads on the Board about which cards are Save to come off. This one offers nothing new aside from the call to create and post decklists with cards that maybe someday or never become legal. I can't see any use for that...
I'll post the Parfait deck that I stoped working on once I get home. (Land Tax for those you don't know)
I wish we can use two cards from the list. Combo Elves could definitely use Earthcraft and Skullclamp together.
6 Forest
4 Windswept Heath
2 Verdant Catacombs
2 Bayou
1 Savannah
1 Pendellhaven
8 Llanowar Elves
4 Birchlore Ranger
4 Heritage Druid
4 Nettle Sentinel
3 Wirewood Symbiote
4 Elvish Visionary
2 Wirewood Hivemaster
1 Regal Force
1 Mirror Entity
1 Eternal Witness
4 Glimpse of Nature
4 Skullclamp
4 Summonner's Pact
Sideboard:
X Thoughtseize
X Burrenton Forge-Tender
I made this list in 5 minutes, but looks solid for me. Not that good like it was on Extended, but still...
Bazzar is no mere joke. People don't really realize how retarded dumb that card is in dredge. Matt Elias' Turtle Dredge with Leyline of Sanctity makes every hate card aside Lelyines,Jailers and Needles useless(Relic's 2nd activation or Planar Void i guess count too)
You can actually play 4 LEDS and 4 Bazaars in Classic online.
Workshops with 4 3balls is just Good Game sir.
These lists can be directly ported over from Vintage with minimal or no losses in dredge's case.
The rest are very interesting and I will be thinking of what lists i could come up with for Drains+Mind Twists and Clamps weeeeeeeeeeeee.
Maybe cuz vengevival is a joke compared to MUD or Dredge?
2 Ad Nauseam
1 Tendrils of Agony
4 Mystical Tutor
4 Infernal Tutor
4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Lotus Petal
3 Chrome Mox
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Brainstorm
2 Ponder
2 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Duress
2 Hurkyl's Recall
2 Island
1 Swamp
4 Underground Sea
2 City of Traitors
4 Polluted Delta
3 Misty Rainforest
SB: 1 City of Traitors
SB: 2 Tundra
SB: 1 Rebuild
SB: 4 Serenity
SB: 4 Yixlid Jailer
SB: 1 Ravenous Trap
SB: 1 Chain of Vapor
SB: 1 Ill-Gotten Gains
Edit: improved sideboard. Decks that aren't MUD or Dredge don't matter.
Edit 2: read the rules. I guess if only Mystical is legal, you cut the maindeck MUD hate ala one of these:
Then you end up playing one of these (maindeck changes noted):
Maindeck: -2 Hurkyl's Recall, +2 Thoughtseize (focused on Merfolk)
4 Xantid Swarm
1 Tropical Island
2 Chain of Vapor
1 Slaughter Pact
2 Hurkyl's Recall
3 Krosan Grip
1 Reverent Silence
1 Ill-Gotten Gains
Maindeck: -2 H.Recall, -2 Ponder, +2 Thoughtseize, +2 Sensei's Divining Top (focused on CB)
4 Doomsday
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Shelldock Isle
1 Wipe Away
4 Chain of Vapor
2 Thoughtseize
1 Meditate
1 Ill-Gotten Gains
BZK! - Storm Boards
Been there, tried that, still casting Doomsday.
Drawing my deck for 0 mana since 2013.
This actually is pretty interesting, but Workshop and Bazaar doesn't need to be tested. An almost straight port from Vintage is possible. With the difference you can actually play 4 leds in Dredge and 4 Trini in Workshop. And that mean workshop won't ever be unbanned since it's really "unfun" to play against a t1 Trini. Neither will Bazaar with Vintage Dredge being pretty much retarded.
I'll take up the challenge. Trying something with Desire and Clamp probably.
Actually, i think there is more of a point to this than most others.
Lots of threads that post up are just "would skullclamp be safe? i mean really, who would play skullclamp, elves?" or "who would play Mind's desire, no one, it's safe!"
This, while to you may look like just unbanning 2 of the biggest pieces of vintage, is actually what the format looked like 6 years ago. With a few exceptions, he's giving us the Type 1.5 Banned list, and telling us to make the best decks we can with the current cardpool. That has a lot more interest and merit to me than suggesting 1 card at a time in a vaccum. Because it gives lots of toys, and strategies to go with.
Team Albany: What's Legacy?
You cannot know the sweetness of Victory, without first dwelling in the agony of Defeat.
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