Legacy Deckbuilding Challenge - The B/R List

[emidln]

Mystical Tutor was not in the list of banned cards which is why I provided a deck with it.

[sdematt]

I forgot to put in the list of cards you can now use, and it's been corrected.

I understand Bazaar and Workshop are the nuts, I played with them back in 1.5. I just want some decklists including them, and some that aren't necessarily dedicated MUD/Dredge lists, ex. Worldgorger Dragon combo, or something else, like Madness.

Vengevival doesn't really count, nor does Reanimator. You could post them, but that's not really what I was going for, to be quite honest.

I'm liking what I'm seeing. Keep it up!

-Matt

[Sims]

I forgot to put in the list of cards you can now use, and it's been corrected.

I understand Bazaar and Workshop are the nuts, I played with them back in 1.5. I just want some decklists including them, and some that aren't necessarily dedicated MUD/Dredge lists, ex. Worldgorger Dragon combo, or something else, like Madness.

Vengevival doesn't really count, nor does Reanimator. You could post them, but that's not really what I was going for, to be quite honest.

I'm liking what I'm seeing. Keep it up!

-Matt

Worldgorger woul be playable but you'd have to pair it with Bazaar. It looses a lot of punch when you can't combo off with bazaar in play to filter your library for the wincon. you can use Compulsion or something similar but it severely slows the combo down.

With a correct hand and Bazaar, Dragon is a consistant turn 2-3 combo deck.

[emidln]

I realize now that ANT probably isn't what you're looking for in terms of Mystical Tutor abuse, but I bring it up to show that ANT is close to the top of the most powerful decks ever, in any format. It's capable of holding its own against Workshop->Trinisphere and Bazaar of Baghdad, which is really a scary thought. That it can easily morph to address the other most powerful strategies in a foramt (be it Workshop, Bazaar, Counterbalance, etc) is a testament to just how strong the core of 4 Black Lotus, 4 Lotus Petal, 4 Dark Ritual, 4 Vampiric Tutor, 4 Demonic Tutor, 4 Brainstorm, 2 draw15s really is.

[Infinitium]

Not really seeing a lot of innovation as of yet. How about this old gem (now ridiculus):

Owling Mine

Mana
4 Mishra's Workshop
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Serum Powder
4 Grim Monolith

Draw
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Howling Mine
4 Temple Bell

Lock
4 Thorn of Amethyst
4 Sphere of Resistance
4 Trinisphere
4 Tangle Wire

Tech
4 Black Vise
4 Ebony Owl Netsuke
4 Voltaic Key

Sideboard
4 Pithing Needle
4 Petrified Field
3 Ratchet Bomb
4 Leyline of the Void

--

Nothing especially fancy except Voltaic Key's rather excellent synergy with Top, Bell, Monolith and the sideboarded Bomb. I guess one could also try to sideboard Chalice of the Void if one is ultra worried about storm combo, but 12 lock pieces + serum powder is already plenty; plus everyone and their mother will sideboard Hurkyl's Recall anyway. Anvil of Bogardan and Font of Mythos are also notable exclusions and could possibly go in instead of Top, but top just looks better overall in a deck not packing Chalice (and once it gets rolling drawing into more cards really shouldn't be an issue).

[emidln]

You are playing 12 lands. In a workshop deck. Without moxen. With spheres.

WTF doesn't doesn't even begin to describe that list.

[Gheizen64]

A port of the Vintage Elf-Clamp, straight in the format:

4 Skullclamp
4 Glimpse of Nature
2 Cloudstone Curio

4 Llanowar Elves
4 Heritage Druid
4 Quirion Ranger
3 Birchlore Rangers
4 Nettle Sentinel

4 Wirewood Hivemaster
4 Elvish Visionary
4 Summoner's Pact

1 Tendrils of Agony

1 Regal force
1 Eternal Witness
1 Summer Bloom
1 Elvish Spirit Guide

4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Bayou
6 Forest

Very limited testing but it look pretty busted. Still lose to a random force on Clamp/Curio/Glimpse.

[Infinitium]

You are playing 12 lands. In a workshop deck. Without moxen. With spheres.

WTF doesn't doesn't even begin to describe that list.

The general Idea is to Serum Mulligan into mana (read workshop) and a draw engine and just naturally draw into more gas. I admit it probably loses to Wasteland (and the math behind it is.. rough to say the least) but it's just a rough draft atm.

[Mana Drain]

I just wanna say, fuck yeah. Really interesting and fun idea, although I think you dramatically underestimate the power of Bazaar. If were only allowed to run one of the cards on the second list, I think you should cut out Bazaar and Workshop, because I don't know how much Vintage you've played in the past, but those two cards are pillars of the format for a reason. Also, there's a very valid reason why every single deck in Vintage runs 6-7 pieces of hate for Dredge.

GO GO DRAINSTILL!

EDIT: Shit like this is what I'm talking about.

// Lands
4 [AQ] Mishra's Workshop
4 [AQ] Mishra's Factory (1)
4 [TE] Wasteland
4 [6E] Crystal Vein
4 [EX] City of Traitors
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb

// Creatures
4 [WWK] Lodestone Golem

// Spells
4 [MR] Chalice of the Void
4 [NE] Tangle Wire
4 [EX] Sphere of Resistance
4 [DS] Serum Powder
4 [SH] Mox Diamond
4 [V09] Trinisphere
4 [10E] Crucible of Worlds
4 [US] Smokestack

// Sideboard
SB: 3 [8E] Ensnaring Bridge
SB: 4 [AN] City in a Bottle
SB: 4 [M11] Leyline of the Void
SB: 4 [M11] Leyline of Sanctity

This deck may not break a format, but is about as unfun as magic possibly gets.

[Zunam]

Mind's Desire

Lands
2 [EX] City of Traitors
3 [ON] Flooded Strand
3 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
2 [ON] Polluted Delta
3 [R] Underground Sea
2 [SOM] Island (3)
1 [LND] Swamp

Spells
4 [MI] Lion's Eye Diamond
2 [LRW] Thoughtseize
2 [SC] Tendrils of Agony
3 [M10] Ponder
4 [V09] Lotus Petal
3 [DIS] Infernal Tutor
4 [7E] Duress
4 [4E] Dark Ritual
3 [MR] Chrome Mox
4 [TO] Cabal Ritual
4 [IA] Brainstorm
4 [JGC] Mind's Desire
3 [PT] Personal Tutor

Sideboard

SB: 2 [LRW] Thoughtseize
SB: 4 [RAV] Dark Confidant
SB: 1 [DS] Echoing Truth
SB: 2 [R] Hurkyl's Recall
SB: 2 [NE] Reverent Silence
SB: 1 [R] Tropical Island
SB: 1 [CHK] Eye of Nowhere
SB: 1 [TSP] Wipe Away
SB: 1 [M10] Deathmark

This is based on Saito's old GP-ANT list mainly for a strong mana-base to to support the double Blue in Mind's Desire's CC.

In the first testing Mind's Desire has proven to be stronger than Ad Nuseam. It doesn't require a high life total and is almost uncounterable.
It is often casted directly from the player's hand and Personal Tutor helps doing it.

I haven't tested very much and I am not the greatest storm-player either but the Matchup against Merfolk seems to be quite good (8:2 in Mind's Desire's favour in my testing; with 5 pre- and 5 post-board).
Their clock doesn't matter much because you don't need a high life total to go off and they have quite a hard time stopping your from actually casting Mind's Desire (especially with a quite solid mana base when their taxing counter don''t help them a lot).

The Counterbalance-Top Matchup was also quite good. I tested against a Supreme-Blue list (6:4 in Mind's Desire's favour). An early Counterbalance still sucks but especially post-board you have a lot of time to find your freshly boarded bounce/enchantment hate.

If I would have to give a conclusion from my limited testing I would say that Mind's Desire seems to be too strong for the current Meta because two of the harder matchups for storm combo decks (not taking chalice decks into account because I haven't seen chalice decks in the top 8 of bigger tournaments in the last months) seem to be no big problem even for storm-noobs like me.
And then there is not much left that could stop the deck.

[Rico Suave]

Do you really need a decklist to show you how stupid Mishra's Workshop and Trinisphere is?

4 Mishra's Workshop
4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Wasteland
4 Grim Monolith
3 Mox Opal

4 Trinisphere
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Sphere of Resistance
4 Tangle Wire
4 Smokestack
3 Crucible of Worlds

4 Lodestone Golem
3 Karn, Silver Golem

4 Serum Powder

The format won't be casting spells anymore.

[GGoober]

Hey look, it's Vintage MUDStax without power! I think it's a decent list, should be quite strong in this proposed Legacy format.

[Infinitium]

So right now I'm thinking Spring Tide with Mind's Desire over Time Spiral and quite possibly maindecked Hurkyl's Recall. What a delightfully dumb format.

[Koby]

Considering Frantic Search would be legal, it would be used over Time Spiral for storm/mana. Mind's Desire would be the storm kill however.

This format sort of exists: Classic on MTGO...
Restricted List:
Balance
Channel
Demonic Consultation
Demonic Tutor
Fastbond
Flash
Imperial Seal
Mana Crypt
Mana Vault
Necropotence
Sol Ring
Strip Mine
Time Vault
Tinker
Trinisphere
Tolarian Academy
Vampiric Tutor
Wheel of Fortune
Yawgmoth's Will

[SpikeyMikey]

Dragon could hold its own against Dredge and MUD. In a format without Moxen/Lotus etc. MUD is a bit slower and less potent. Dredge is good but Dragon can win turn 1 pretty consistently if they don't have to dodge counters. You only need 3 mana and 1 land to win. I might work up a listing when I get home.

[Jeff Kruchkow]

I think anything looking to play desire would want Burning Wish to better abuse Desire.
Something like this:

4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Underground Sea
3 Volcanic Island
1 Badlands

4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
4 Chrome Mox
4 Dark Ritual
4 Rite of Flame
4 Burning Wish
4 Infernal Tutor
1 Tendrils of Agony
3 Mind's Desire
4 Manamorphose
4 Duress
4 Thoughtseize
1 Something

My aim is to t1 combo to beat everything that isn't blue, vs blue you would bring in blasts and win because Desire>Counterspells

[Hanni]

Blue Workshop Stompy

Lands (24)
4 Island
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Mishra's Workshop
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Wasteland

Creatures (18)
4 Metalworker
4 Master of Etherium
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Faerie Mechanist
2 Steel Hellkite

Spells (18)
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Trinisphere
2 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Sword of Fire and Ice
4 Mox Diamond

Sideboard (15)
4 Smokestack
4 Crucible of Worlds
4 Thorn of Amethyst
3 Sphere of Resistance

[sdematt]

I know Bazaar and Shop are busted, I've played Vintage and 1.5 when they were legal. This thread is not only to prove a card isn't warranted to be on the banned list, it's also to prove some deserve their place. I'm liking the decks so far, but only the most popular ones seem to be getting the attention. No love for Hermit Druid, Recruiter, Library?


-Matt

[(nameless one)]

I'll post the Parfait deck that I stoped working on once I get home. (Land Tax for those you don't know)

I'm still at work but I just remembered this list from Stephen Menendian from his article just before Mystical Tutor got banned:

Maindeck:

Artifacts
1 Crucible Of Worlds
1 Goblin Charbelcher
1 Isochron Scepter
4 Mox Diamond
4 Scroll Rack
1 Smokestack
4 Trinisphere

Enchantments
1 Humility
4 Land Tax
1 Moat
2 Oblivion Ring
1 Rule of Law
1 Sacred Mesa

Instants
4 Abeyance
3 Argivian Find
4 Enlightened Tutor
3 Orim's Chant
4 Swords to Plowshares

Basic Lands
11 Plains

Lands
1 Mistveil Plains
4 Wasteland

The version I'm working on uses Armageddon as a way to abuse Land Tax.

I remember a few people working on the same concept. Dachmai claimed that he has a broken list featuring Land Tax from the B/R thread I started just before the recent updates.

[emidln]

Burn with Black Vise, SDT, and fetches that gets to run Shrapnel Blast as a bonus is pretty hot. 4-5 damage for 1 mana is all sorts of hot. What's more, you can probably justify the white splash into Steppe Lynx since your'e already running 12-14 fetches and you get a bonus disenchant effect. Mmm, value.