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Thread: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

  1. #2861
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    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace/Homebrew View Post
    I've always been inclined to cut 3spheres versus control because the game inevitably gets to a point where it isn't relevant.
    Historically I agree. However Snapcaster is effectively neutered by 3Sphere. Without bringing in GY hate. That, in addition to it's blowout potential and protection against countermagic(as always) is why I like only against the 4 Snap matchups with decks that are optimized to abuse him.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace/Homebrew View Post
    I'd also argue that Blood Moons are stronger than Maguses because there are less ways to remove them.
    Obviously that's true. But Moon can be pretty weak in general against this deck. And they don't have real blockers, so every threat is relevant. Magus also turns off all their removal. Yes, they can float and kill. But they can do the same vs Moon. The odds that they have open mana and the removal spell are far higher for Magus. But to me that's outweighed by the threat itself, and additional threats for each other Magus where redundant Moons are dead.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace/Homebrew View Post
    I'd be interested to hear more about the Phoenixes. in the casting cost isn't the worst, but I'm curious if Pia Nalaar wouldn't serve you about as well.
    Pia gives you a few additional tricks against Batterskull/Jitte (sac the token after blocks) even though you only get to do it once.
    I don't have much more at the moment on Phoenix. It's my substitute for Copter. Which I see you can fit without 3Sphere hurting your Red. Not being able to cast Mox T1 is absolutely crippling, which led to the change. Otherwise, with the 6 token producers I was very happy with 2 Copter. I will say that I have been sorely disappointed in Pia every time drew and/or cast them. To me it's the most overrated card in the deck just above Prodder.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace/Homebrew View Post
    Have you tried 4 Chandras main? I strongly encourage you to try that if you haven't.
    Yes. Not only is Grixis Delver the most popular deck generally, it's even more so around me. And it's the one version that Chandra is just bad against. YP, TNN, Gurmag, Bolt, etc. That's the vast majority of the reason. That is actually the reason for my main inclusion of 3Sphere. Though we're not just talking Grixis there. Against Delver, every lock piece you drop in the first three turns greatly improves your chance of winning. Whether it resolves or not. If they Daze your Chalice, they're not dropping YP next turn. If they Force your Moon, they don't get to use that Brainstorm to find Bolt for your Magus. And so on. So when you start dropping real threats, they are out of answers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace/Homebrew View Post
    Here's what I'm trying out currently. With the same caveat as you:

    4 Hanweir Watchkeep
    3 Qal Sisma Behemoth
    3 Smuggler's Copter
    4 Magus of the Moon
    4 Simian Spirit Guide

    4 Bonfire of the Damned (although I'm thinking Rolling Earthquake is probably better)
    4 Fiery Confluence

    4 Chalice of the Void
    4 Blood Moon
    4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance

    4 Chrome Mox
    10 Mountain
    4 Ancient Tomb
    4 City of Traitors

    My sideboard would contain 4 Trinisphere and the rest I'm still working out.
    The idea is to keep the opponent's board clear with Confluence and Bonfire/Earthquake and make my threats difficult to kill through conventional burn (bolt or P Fire) which is playable through Moon.
    I haven't played Watchkeep. I found 3 Copter was too many with 6 token producers, and you have none. That would concern me. especially since you want to be actually swinging with all your creatures but Magus. I found the self damage from Earthquake added up too quickly with the deck's inherent self damage against the decks you want Earthquake against. But that was in limited testing. I did test Behemoth, and found that having to pay was a nuisance late, but made the card almost unplayable early. It's not bad, but it causes sort of an inconsistency in a deck that can ill-afford it.
    Quote Originally Posted by GreenMycon
    It's really unfortunate that even a complete imbecile can learn. I guess you truly can't drive intuition out of anything.

  2. #2862
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    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    Just checking, because context (you said 'them') implies you misunderstood me. I was suggesting Pia Nalaar, not Pia and Kiran Nalaar.

    In my limited experience, you are generally safe playing extra Copters because it lets you loot away redundant copies. The 'fat' creatures I'm trying were chosen specifically because Copter minimizes their downside. And they curve nicely when you open with an aggressive hand (turn 1 Copter; turn 2 Watchkeep/Behemoth, crew and swing with Copter).

    I also like turn 1 Behemoth; turn 2 Chandra, add and attack for 5 with Behemoth.

  3. #2863
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    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    Hi,

    I usually play R/W Taxes but I am on Dragon Stompy at the moment. I played the following list in our monthly tournament (31 Players) for a 5-1 result. I played a modified list of Wichtelmann:



    /NAME:

    4 Blood Moon
    4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
    4 Fiery Confluence
    1 Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
    4 Magus of the Moon
    1 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
    4 Simian Spirit Guide
    4 Sin Prodder
    2 Sudden Shock
    4 Chalice of the Void
    4 Chrome Mox
    3 Ensnaring Bridge
    3 Trinisphere
    4 Ancient Tomb
    4 City of Traitors
    10 Mountain

    Sideboard:

    3 Mindbreak Trap
    3 Faerie Macabre
    2 Pyrokinesis
    1 Ensnaring Bridge
    3 Phyrexian Revoker
    3 Karakas



    Wins were: B/W Stoneblade, MUD, Eldrazi, Grixis Delver and Infect. Lost to Turbo Depths

  4. #2864
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    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace/Homebrew View Post
    Just checking, because context (you said 'them') implies you misunderstood me. I was suggesting Pia Nalaar, not Pia and Kiran Nalaar.

    In my limited experience, you are generally safe playing extra Copters because it lets you loot away redundant copies. The 'fat' creatures I'm trying were chosen specifically because Copter minimizes their downside. And they curve nicely when you open with an aggressive hand (turn 1 Copter; turn 2 Watchkeep/Behemoth, crew and swing with Copter).

    I also like turn 1 Behemoth; turn 2 Chandra, add and attack for 5 with Behemoth.
    Yes. I meant Kiran. But I'm not impressed by Pia herself either.

    I understand your idea. But you do realize that once your fatties aren't sick, you will be swinging with them instead of Copter? You don't run enough creatures to keep Copter going without losing an attacker. That's why I like it more with the token generators.

    I did get some testing last night. I believe the changes I'll be making to the main are -2 Phoenix, -1 3 Sphere, +2 Copter, +1 Chandra. Copter is just much better, and I'm only losing one red card this way. SB I'm on now is:

    2 Phyrexian Revoker
    1 Sulfur Elemental
    2 Trinisphere
    4 Ensnaring Bridge
    3 Faerie Macabre
    2 Pyrokenisis
    1 Stormbreath Dragon

    But that was just to put an exact 15 for last night.
    Quote Originally Posted by GreenMycon
    It's really unfortunate that even a complete imbecile can learn. I guess you truly can't drive intuition out of anything.

  5. #2865
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    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by Black_Diamond View Post
    Hi,

    I usually play R/W Taxes but I am on Dragon Stompy at the moment. I played the following list in our monthly tournament (31 Players) for a 5-1 result. I played a modified list of Wichtelmann:



    /NAME:

    4 Blood Moon
    4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
    4 Fiery Confluence
    1 Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
    4 Magus of the Moon
    1 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
    4 Simian Spirit Guide
    4 Sin Prodder
    2 Sudden Shock
    4 Chalice of the Void
    4 Chrome Mox
    3 Ensnaring Bridge
    3 Trinisphere
    4 Ancient Tomb
    4 City of Traitors
    10 Mountain

    Sideboard:

    3 Mindbreak Trap
    3 Faerie Macabre
    2 Pyrokinesis
    1 Ensnaring Bridge
    3 Phyrexian Revoker
    3 Karakas



    Wins were: B/W Stoneblade, MUD, Eldrazi, Grixis Delver and Infect. Lost to Turbo Depths
    I played a very similar deck to 3-1 at my LGS:

    1x Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
    4x Magus of the Moon
    2x Pia and Kiran Nalaar
    1x Quicksmith Rebel
    4x Simian Spirit Guide
    3x Sin Prodder

    4x Fiery Confluence

    4x Blood Moon

    4x Chandra, Torch of Defiance

    4x Chalice of the Void
    4x Chrome Mox
    4x Ensnaring Bridge
    3x Trinisphere

    4x Ancient Tomb
    4x City of Traitors
    10x Mountain

    Sideboard

    3x Faerie Macabre
    2x Phyrexian Revoker
    2x Pyrokinesis
    1x Sudden Demise
    2x Sudden Shock
    2x Sulfur Elemental
    2x Thorn of Amethyst
    1x Tormod's Crypt

    R1 against Pascal on Patriot Delver 2-1
    R2 against Oliver on Food Chain 2-1
    R3 against Simon on Death and Taxes 2-0
    R4 against Matej on Sneak and Show 1-2

    In almost all matches except against Food Chain Ensnaring Bridge was the most important card. It won against TNN and it won the game against Sneak and Show.

    One consequence of always baoding out Sin Paordder would be to cut them for something more proactive like Walking Ballista or Phyrexian Revoker.
    Chalice on 1

  6. #2866
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    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    Does anyone else play the goblin package? Does no one respect Moggcatcher?

  7. #2867
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    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by jandax View Post
    Does anyone else play the goblin package? Does no one respect Moggcatcher?


    Just haven't been excited by it recently.
    When foil copies of Combat Celebrant drop further I'll probably try it again.
    Last edited by Ace/Homebrew; 08-11-2017 at 10:51 PM.

  8. #2868

    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by jandax View Post
    Does anyone else play the goblin package? Does no one respect Moggcatcher?
    IS the version i love more

  9. #2869

    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by fluuu View Post
    IS the version i love more
    I had a lot of success with moggcatcher when the post-top meta was in its very early stages, including a 5-0, although it wasn't posted.

    I ended up switching to the bridge/walker version after I started losing a lot to the various UR decks that have become increasingly popular, however I still think it's quite strong. I was also running bridge main in that deck, moggcatcher is still quite good at winning the game under bridge. I was still running 3 chandra main with a smaller goblin package to make room of 4 rabblemaster, 1 tuktuk, 1 kiki, 1 siegegang, 1 settler, 1 redcap. It's a very flexible deck and I love settler, he's the biggest thing I miss. However playing a 4 drop that's a 2/2 that needs a turn to do anything feels really bad against some decks.

    EDIT:: on the subject of settler has anyone had success with stone rain effects, or even stone rain itself, in non-goblin stompy lists hostorically? The effect is insanely strong against some control decks that run 1-3 basics.

  10. #2870

    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    I had moderate success with Avalanche rider in the mono-humans style builds a while back, but I don't know how viable that is these days.

  11. #2871

    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    The non-matching Siege-Gang Commander gives me cancer.

    My problem with Goblin version is that it is way more controlling in the games you are losing but it's still hard to end the game before they break out.

  12. #2872
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    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by ZEROorDIE View Post
    I had moderate success with Avalanche rider in the mono-humans style builds a while back, but I don't know how viable that is these days.
    I'm playing a copy of Avalanche Riders in the board of my Imperial Recruiter build and it has been fun. For anyone who likes the tool box nature of the Moggcatcher builds, I suggest giving Imperial Recruiter a whirl.

    I've never played Stone Rain, but I have had some success with Pillage. It hits Mox Diamond as well!
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  13. #2873

    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by pinkfrosting View Post
    I had a lot of success with moggcatcher when the post-top meta was in its very early stages, including a 5-0, although it wasn't posted.

    I ended up switching to the bridge/walker version after I started losing a lot to the various UR decks that have become increasingly popular, however I still think it's quite strong. I was also running bridge main in that deck, moggcatcher is still quite good at winning the game under bridge. I was still running 3 chandra main with a smaller goblin package to make room of 4 rabblemaster, 1 tuktuk, 1 kiki, 1 siegegang, 1 settler, 1 redcap. It's a very flexible deck and I love settler, he's the biggest thing I miss. However playing a 4 drop that's a 2/2 that needs a turn to do anything feels really bad against some decks.

    EDIT:: on the subject of settler has anyone had success with stone rain effects, or even stone rain itself, in non-goblin stompy lists hostorically? The effect is insanely strong against some control decks that run 1-3 basics.
    The early post top ban its not so far!
    What do u think that are the strongs and weakness of goblin version compared with the standard one?

  14. #2874

    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by fluuu View Post
    The early post top ban its not so far!
    What do u think that are the strongs and weakness of goblin version compared with the standard one?
    The strength of the bridge/walker version is that almost every card has immediate impact the turn it comes down, almost every threat virtually ignores the battlefield and can deal damage behind bridge, and its threats are harder to remove. It's biggest weakness imo is every stomy decks weakness, which is heavy dependence on top decking well when you're behind.

    The biggest strength of goblin stompy is a more varied toolbox of answers to specific threats and more virtual card advantage if a moggcatcher sticks. It's weakness is being a lot more vulnerable to creature removal. However if you run enough creatures you can overload their removal pretty easily.

    There is also the no-bridge very aggro heavy builds which I can't really speak much about because I haven't tried it, but ideally I would say they forego parts of the prison plan to just kill opponents faster on the ground. I am personally not a huge fan of these builds in the current metagame because bridge is just crazy strong against every top deck right now except storm.

  15. #2875

    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by jandax View Post
    Does anyone else play the goblin package? Does no one respect Moggcatcher?
    It was my first stompy variant for awhile. Like other people said it is quite flexible. Ideally you bait out removal for moggcatcher with some other target, or have a chalice on 1 to at least activate him once. Humans and goblins have the added benefit of being able to make use of cavern. I added Purphoros after seeing a guy do well with it in Japan. Purph into SGC is gross, and even a rabblemaster or kiki (or pia and nalaar...) can be a handful with him. He turns any topdecked creature into a shock, which isn't bad.

    That was all before the top-ban though, the pure power of Chandra and Confluence are hard to ignore. In non-blue decks I try to keep my deck to at least 10% CA sources. In goblins I had 4 moggcatchers, 2 Chandra, and 3 SGC / Pia and Nalaar which gave me 9 cards total. Getting catcher plowed or removed DOES feel real bad.

  16. #2876
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    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by pinkfrosting View Post
    I ended up switching to the bridge/walker version after I started losing a lot to the various UR decks that have become increasingly popular, however I still think it's quite strong.

    Could you be more specific regarding UR decks?
    Quote Originally Posted by GreenMycon
    It's really unfortunate that even a complete imbecile can learn. I guess you truly can't drive intuition out of anything.

  17. #2877
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    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    Yeah does that include grixis or just Rx burn decks?

    Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

  18. #2878

    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by QQQ View Post
    Could you be more specific regarding UR decks?
    Quote Originally Posted by jandax
    Yeah does that include grixis or just Rx burn decks?
    Specifically UR decks, both the aggro, tempo, and control variants.

    UR delver is weak to chalice on one but runs more than enough basics to ignore our 8 moon effects. We don't really have a lot of effective sideboard options to replace moon post board either. Post board they side in usually 3 smash to smithereens. Basically it's the same difficulty we have against burn compounded by the fact that they have a robust countermagic suite.

    UR tempo is similar except they play more 2-3 drops making it easier to play around chalice, and 4 snapcaster which post-board lets them get a lot more value out of their artifact destruction, making bridge and chalice less useful. Same problem of them running more than enough basics to virtually ignore moon.

    I also saw a few experimental UR "control" lists running punishing fire and grove of the burnwillows without green cards, using it just to power punishing fire. A few others were running lists similar to responsiblejoseph's tempo list but without the tempo cards, focusing on landing blood moon, jace, and true-name, and protecting them with countermagic, burn, and snapcaster. I also saw several maindeck engineered explosives in these lists, presumably to kill chalice, which worked well against me.

    Anyway back to my original point, all these decks are pretty hard for any stompy variant to deal with, but I've had the easiest time with the bridge/walker version because it's threats are better at eating red spells, at least trading for 2 of them in most cases. Moggcatcher just kept dying too easily.

    @jandax, Grixis is a great matchup, I'm more than happy to play against any deck that doesn't run a single basic any day.

  19. #2879
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    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by pinkfrosting View Post
    Specifically UR decks, both the aggro, tempo, and control variants.

    UR delver is weak to chalice on one but runs more than enough basics to ignore our 8 moon effects. We don't really have a lot of effective sideboard options to replace moon post board either. Post board they side in usually 3 smash to smithereens. Basically it's the same difficulty we have against burn compounded by the fact that they have a robust countermagic suite.
    So you're saying you switched to main deck Bridge, to have a better matchup against a deck that runs 4 Stormchaser, 4 Monastery Swiftspear, and some number of Grim Lavamancer?
    Quote Originally Posted by GreenMycon
    It's really unfortunate that even a complete imbecile can learn. I guess you truly can't drive intuition out of anything.

  20. #2880

    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by QQQ View Post
    So you're saying you switched to main deck Bridge, to have a better matchup against a deck that runs 4 Stormchaser, 4 Monastery Swiftspear, and some number of Grim Lavamancer?
    Bridge isn't great against them. Neither are a bunch of 2/2's that don't block fliers. At least with bridge I can use chrome mox to empty my hand quickly and actually hit 0 cards somewhat consistently.

    However that isn't the primary reason I switched. Walkers are just better against them than moggcatcher in many cases.

    A very aggro oriented list is probably much better at racing them. I was specifically talking about moggcatcher vs bridge/walker, and moggcatcher is quite slow. I don't play a fast aggro list though because I gear my deck to beat a majority of the field, and UR is not the majority of the field. There are enough people playing it though that I don't think moggcatcher is the best choice right now, although I still think it's pretty good.

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