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Thread: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

  1. #2881
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    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by pinkfrosting View Post
    Specifically UR decks, both the aggro, tempo, and control variants.

    UR delver is weak to chalice on one but runs more than enough basics to ignore our 8 moon effects. We don't really have a lot of effective sideboard options to replace moon post board either. Post board they side in usually 3 smash to smithereens. Basically it's the same difficulty we have against burn compounded by the fact that they have a robust countermagic suite.

    UR tempo is similar except they play more 2-3 drops making it easier to play around chalice, and 4 snapcaster which post-board lets them get a lot more value out of their artifact destruction, making bridge and chalice less useful. Same problem of them running more than enough basics to virtually ignore moon.

    I also saw a few experimental UR "control" lists running punishing fire and grove of the burnwillows without green cards, using it just to power punishing fire. A few others were running lists similar to responsiblejoseph's tempo list but without the tempo cards, focusing on landing blood moon, jace, and true-name, and protecting them with countermagic, burn, and snapcaster. I also saw several maindeck engineered explosives in these lists, presumably to kill chalice, which worked well against me.

    Anyway back to my original point, all these decks are pretty hard for any stompy variant to deal with, but I've had the easiest time with the bridge/walker version because it's threats are better at eating red spells, at least trading for 2 of them in most cases. Moggcatcher just kept dying too easily.

    @jandax, Grixis is a great matchup, I'm more than happy to play against any deck that doesn't run a single basic any day.
    For UR Burn and UR Tempo, Trinisphere is great for slowing down their deployment. In fact, R/x Burn is always impaired by Trinisphere. In my tournament history, I've rarely (less than 5) lost to Burn playing Chalice of the Void and Trinisphere together.
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  2. #2882

    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by QQQ View Post
    That makes sense. So on that note; from what I've seen with the latest lists online, I don't imagine the Bridge version could possibly have a fast enough clock against the AnT decks running 2 Hurkyls and 2 By Force to kill them before they find some answer. The results I've seen support this, but I've not played that version against Storm. What is your experience without aggressive creature elements in this matchup?
    I don't see Hurkyls as much as I see the most common board of 3 by force 2 echoing truth, which is still really hard to deal with. I obviously cut bridges and the slowest threats, which is usually chandra. Honestly against storm a lot of the other threats in that list are quite fast. Koth is about as fast as most beaters, and quicksmith deals 5 per turn against storm. I don't cut Fiery Confluence as it's actually a great burn spell and can sometimes kill LEDs or petals they were forced to cast because of trinisphere. Between all those cards and sin prodder the clock isn't that bad at all. I also run leyline of the void, which can be a nice lock piece that doesn't get hit by By Force or hurkyll's. I do miss turn 1 rabblemaster against storm though, that was a nice element to moggcatcher.

    When I'm on MTGO though pretty much 4 out of 5 decks every league are some variation of grixis, 4-c control, or BUG. Our deck isn't reactionary, it just slams cards and expects the opponent to lose to them, so every card choice should be geared towards the meta. That's the logic in the current bridge builds. Storm is still popular enough that I'm playing against 1-2 of them per league, but the decks still operates just fine against them, and only loses a few percentage points to having a slightly slower clock, but as I said it's really not that much slower.

  3. #2883
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    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    How does the bridge walker build react to a gaddock teeg? Sign the slip and skedaddle?

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  4. #2884
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    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by pinkfrosting View Post
    I don't see Hurkyls as much as I see the most common board of 3 by force 2 echoing truth, which is still really hard to deal with. I obviously cut bridges and the slowest threats, which is usually chandra. Honestly against storm a lot of the other threats in that list are quite fast. Koth is about as fast as most beaters, and quicksmith deals 5 per turn against storm. I don't cut Fiery Confluence as it's actually a great burn spell and can sometimes kill LEDs or petals they were forced to cast because of trinisphere. Between all those cards and sin prodder the clock isn't that bad at all. I also run leyline of the void, which can be a nice lock piece that doesn't get hit by By Force or hurkyll's. I do miss turn 1 rabblemaster against storm though, that was a nice element to moggcatcher.

    When I'm on MTGO though pretty much 4 out of 5 decks every league are some variation of grixis, 4-c control, or BUG. Our deck isn't reactionary, it just slams cards and expects the opponent to lose to them, so every card choice should be geared towards the meta. That's the logic in the current bridge builds. Storm is still popular enough that I'm playing against 1-2 of them per league, but the decks still operates just fine against them, and only loses a few percentage points to having a slightly slower clock, but as I said it's really not that much slower.
    Sorry, how does leyline get hit by force or recall?

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  5. #2885
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    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by jandax View Post
    Sorry, how does leyline get hit by force or recall?

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    It doesn't. But then it's not a lock piece either. There's no way Storm will go for a PiF kill against this deck.
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  6. #2886

    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by jandax View Post
    How does the bridge walker build react to a gaddock teeg? Sign the slip and skedaddle?

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    Preboard quicksmith rebel, post board sudden shock and kozilek's return, or sulfur elemental if they swing into it and you have the mana to flash it in.

  7. #2887

    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by jandax View Post
    Sorry, how does leyline get hit by force or recall?

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    you misread my post, I said it doesn't get hit

    It doesn't. But then it's not a lock piece either. There's no way Storm will go for a PiF kill against this deck.
    And it isn't a lock but it's a big hindrance, taking away PIF as an option and depowering cabal ritual does in fact slow them down. And if leyline isn't down they absolutely will go for it, they don't take pif out against us

  8. #2888
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    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    Fair enough. Mistakes are always made.

    I'll say it after Koby, 3ball is a big old thorn in the side of grixis decks. I'm convinced that we should be playing 3 MD, no matter the build. The meta is still shook.

    It's good to play hate.dec right meow.

  9. #2889

    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by jandax View Post
    Fair enough. Mistakes are always made.

    I'll say it after Koby, 3ball is a big old thorn in the side of grixis decks. I'm convinced that we should be playing 3 MD, no matter the build. The meta is still shook.

    It's good to play hate.dec right meow.
    Absolutely agree on 3-sphere, I run 3 main. Against a lot of decks I'll take it out when I'm on the draw but I think it's great right now, and I agree with Koby that along with chalice it's our best tool against UR burn/tempo. Against decks that straight up fold to moon I also like the turn 1-2 3-sphere, if it resolves they can't counter moon on our next turn, if not it eats some countermagic so we can resolve moon anyway.

  10. #2890
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  11. #2891

    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    Both playing this deck:

    Planeswalker (5)
    4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
    1 Koth of the Hammer

    Creature (14)
    1 Hazoret the Fervent
    4 Magus of the Moon
    1 Quicksmith Rebel
    4 Simian Spirit Guide
    4 Sin Prodder

    Sorcery (4)
    4 Fiery Confluence

    Artifact (15)
    4 Chalice of the Void
    4 Chrome Mox
    4 Ensnaring Bridge
    3 Trinisphere

    Enchantment (4)
    4 Blood Moon

    Land (18)
    4 Ancient Tomb
    4 City of Traitors
    10 Mountain

    Sideboard (15)
    1 Trinisphere
    1 Ashen Rider
    4 Leyline of the Void
    2 Sudden Shock
    4 Sulfur Elemental
    3 Volcanic Fallout

  12. #2892

    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    i think leyline and koth are crap cuz of various reasons but thats just me...

    fallout might have suprised a lot delver/deathrite players...
    Last edited by Wichtelman; 05-30-2017 at 04:27 PM.

  13. #2893
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    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    Yeah honestly this list looks janky. I'm one to talk, but unless you're running a tutor package, one of's do not cut it in this archetype. It wins on the back of hate for sure. I'd like to see someone run this through a paper local

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  14. #2894

    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    well one of's are ok but they need to have a good impact and stuff like koth is just good if you are already ahead...
    that said one ashen rider to lucksack vs show and tell?

    reanimator can play around leyline specially if you keep a weak hand just cuz of leyline + it is just good if your opp gets suprised by it...

  15. #2895

    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    Both have the same maindeck as my list from yesterday's results with a slightly different sideboard, which is the same maindeck that top 8'd the legacy challenge last week.

    Leyline is not great but it is a concession to BR reanimator, which just grabs your chalices and trinispheres out of your hand if they're on the play. It is really amazing if you can resolve it with either a chalice or a trinisphere though, making it difficult for them to dig for their enchantment destruction. It has actually performed very well for me, but perhaps I'm just lucky. I've had it since I started playing moggcatcher after the top ban and I've played over 100 games online since then with plenty of wins against reanimator. It can also be sided in against storm, and while not backbreaking it's better than a lot of cards in the maindeck that do nothing against storm so it can be a nice hindrance to them if you happen to get it out.

    Koth is basically in the deck because planeswalkers dodge almost all removal and they synergize very well with bridge and he's the next best red planeswalker behind Chandra, TOD. Very few people are playing council's judgement or maelstrom pulse anymore making them some of the hardest threats to remove with spells.

  16. #2896

    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    Leyline is not great but it is a concession to BR reanimator, which just grabs your chalices and trinispheres out of your hand if they're on the play. It is really amazing if you can resolve it with either a chalice or a trinisphere though, making it difficult for them to dig for their enchantment destruction. It can also be sided in against storm, and while not backbreaking it's better than a lot of cards in the maindeck that do nothing against storm so it can be a nice hindrance to them if you happen to get it out.
    personal choice nothing more... played the matchups on both sides and have a different opinion i gues...

    Koth is basically in the deck because planeswalkers dodge almost all removal and they synergize very well with bridge and he's the next best red planeswalker behind Chandra, TOD. Very few people are playing council's judgement or maelstrom pulse anymore making them some of the hardest threats to remove with spells.
    i really get the "why" but i think it is just miserable if you have 1-2 mountain and they kill them... same story if they have pressure... if you have the lock online it really does not matter how you win...

  17. #2897
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    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    I think Leyline is worse than Relic, Tormod's Crypt and Faerie Macabre combined. I've been using 3 Macabre and 2 Relic; where relic has value against DRS/Goyf decks.
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  18. #2898

    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by Wichtelman View Post
    i really get the "why" but i think it is just miserable if you have 1-2 mountain and they kill them... same story if they have pressure... if you have the lock online it really does not matter how you win...
    I have recently removed koth from my list and my friend was saying that he is amazing when behind a bridge.

    But what I was told and then realised is that when behind he does nothing. His + doesn't even give the mountain haste, his - is rather pitiful unless a blood moon effect is out. His ultimate is absolutely incredible, but it's got the same issues as the -.

  19. #2899

    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by Koby View Post
    I think Leyline is worse than Relic, Tormod's Crypt and Faerie Macabre combined. I've been using 3 Macabre and 2 Relic; where relic has value against DRS/Goyf decks.
    It's really a reaction to BR reanimator's popularity over traditional reanimator. An uncounterable effect that lands turn 0 is immune to thoughtseize and unmask, which hit faerie macabre easily. If traditional reanimator comes back in force I would switch to different grave hate.

    I could never justify running relic in a deck with chalice, especially in matchup where our turn one play should always be chalice on 1 if possible.

  20. #2900
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    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by pinkfrosting View Post
    It's really a reaction to BR reanimator's popularity over traditional reanimator. An uncounterable effect that lands turn 0 is immune to thoughtseize and unmask, which hit faerie macabre easily. If traditional reanimator comes back in force I would switch to different grave hate.

    I could never justify running relic in a deck with chalice, especially in matchup where our turn one play should always be chalice on 1 if possible.
    So what are you doing the other 60% of the time when you don't fan open a Chalice of the Void?
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