Page 193 of 197 FirstFirst ... 93143183189190191192193194195196197 LastLast
Results 3,841 to 3,860 of 3936

Thread: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

  1. #3841
    Member
    Fallen_Empire's Avatar
    Join Date

    May 2016
    Location

    Seattle, WA
    Posts

    196

    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    How good is blood sun in the current meta? Seems like there are a lot of basics running around, but being able to turn off fetches still seems really good plus we get to draw one and don't kill our cities. Has anyone done any serious testing with the card?

  2. #3842
    The green Ancestral
    ESG's Avatar
    Join Date

    Mar 2010
    Location

    Seattle, WA
    Posts

    1,308

    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by Fallen_Empire View Post
    How good is blood sun in the current meta? Seems like there are a lot of basics running around, but being able to turn off fetches still seems really good plus we get to draw one and don't kill our cities. Has anyone done any serious testing with the card?
    I have.

    Why Blood Sun fails:

    1) It's too slow.

    Blood Sun is at its best Turn 1 on the play when your opponent is playing fetchlands or lands that have value due to their abilities. The only real way to hose fetchlands would be to print an anti-fetch Leyline, print zero-mana Stifles, or make Blood Sun cost one mana. At three mana, your opponent has usually cracked one or two fetchlands already, and that's all he will likely need to play Magic -- assuming he's even playing a deck dependent on fetchlands.

    2) It's too conditional.

    Blood Sun requires your opponent's deck to be full of fetchlands, but a look at Legacy manabases reveals that most decks play about half fetchlands, half non-fetchlands. If your opponent draws at least part of the the non-fetchland half, Blood Sun has done effectively nothing. Perhaps it has disabled one land, likely denying a single shuffle after a Brainstorm. That's not much.

    3) It doesn't do enough.

    Even though it shuts off your opponent's fetchlands, your opponent is playing Legacy, so his deck's curve is most likely low. This means he's still able to play out one-drops and two-drops and potentially still able to curve out on time. When your opponent draws his dual lands and/or basic lands, Blood Sun won't be doing anything.

    4) It doesn't affect the board.

    Assuming you draw Blood Sun after Turn 3, it's simply a three-mana cantrip, which is too slow for Legacy.


    The fringe benefits of Blood Sun:

    Blood Sun makes City of Traitors better, but this is kind of a trap because it makes you play more copies of that traitorous card, and if your attempt at T1 Blood Sun gets countered, you've likely set yourself up to lose the game because your next land drop will cause you to lose the City.


    Blood Sun vs. Blood Moon

    Blood Sun is better against fetchlands than Blood Moon is against nonbasics, since it makes them produce zero mana instead of one red mana, but the power level of Blood Moon is higher because it hits a greater percentage of lands in your opponent's deck.

  3. #3843

    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    Hi All,

    I play different versions of mono red prison / dragon stompy for almost 2 years and see it changing from control/lock to quite aggressive. Experimented with actual dragons, wishboard etc.
    Below I copied an updated version which is 100% aggro and less prison.

    Major changes:

    Chandra ==> Karn, Scion of Urza
    4 mountains ==> 4 artifact land
    No more bridge mainboard ==> extra Captain Lannery Storm for speed and artifact creation


    I would like to hear from this community what you think:

    Mainboard:
    4x city of traitors
    4x ancient tomb
    4x great furnace
    7x mountain

    4x chrome mox
    4x chalice of the void
    4x simian spirit guide
    4x blood moon
    3x trinisphere
    3x fiery confluence
    4x magus of the moon
    4x karn, scion of urza

    4x legion warboss
    4x goblin rabblemaster
    3x captain lannery storm

    Sideboard:
    4x ensnaring bridge
    4x leyline of the void
    4x sulfur elemental
    3x scab-clan berserker

    Tips and sideboard plans are welcome.

    Ruud-Maarten

  4. #3844

    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by Kreeke86 View Post
    Hi All,

    I play different versions of mono red prison / dragon stompy for almost 2 years and see it changing from control/lock to quite aggressive. Experimented with actual dragons, wishboard etc.
    Below I copied an updated version which is 100% aggro and less prison.

    Major changes:

    Chandra ==> Karn, Scion of Urza
    4 mountains ==> 4 artifact land
    No more bridge mainboard ==> extra Captain Lannery Storm for speed and artifact creation


    I would like to hear from this community what you think:

    Mainboard:
    4x city of traitors
    4x ancient tomb
    4x great furnace
    7x mountain

    4x chrome mox
    4x chalice of the void
    4x simian spirit guide
    4x blood moon
    3x trinisphere
    3x fiery confluence
    4x magus of the moon
    4x karn, scion of urza

    4x legion warboss
    4x goblin rabblemaster
    3x captain lannery storm

    Sideboard:
    4x ensnaring bridge
    4x leyline of the void
    4x sulfur elemental
    3x scab-clan berserker

    Tips and sideboard plans are welcome.

    Ruud-Maarten
    I hate Lannery Storm. Not a brick house in terms of legacy power. IMO, it's not worth running the Great Furnace x4 just for Karn. With Furnace and City in your opening hand, you can get wasted out of the game easily. Also, be careful against Kolagan's Command; all your threats fall to that easily. I've lost to K Command + Snap + K Command again. Game (shake hand).

    If you want the Furnaces, I'd do Storm -> Pia and Kiran Nalaar. Gives you 7-8 reasons to run the extra artifact, and PnK is decent against Death and Taxes, esp because of the tokens (and it's Karakas-proof).

    With PnK, 3-4 Jitte in the SB is better than Sulfur Elemental. A metric fuckton more versatile, and harder for DnT and other decks to remove.

    Nobody will like this, but Forcefield can let your Karn-germs attack through a Bridge-like effect. Bouncing a fattie with Dead // Gone is doable, too. (PnK also chumps for a couple turns, woot!)
    Final Ritual: "I was your round 14 opponent with the 3 giant goyfs. I didn't know what the fuck you were piloting."
    Drunken Master strategy. If I don't know what I'm doing, how would you?

  5. #3845

    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by frogger42 View Post
    I hate Lannery Storm. Not a brick house in terms of legacy power. IMO, it's not worth running the Great Furnace x4 just for Karn. With Furnace and City in your opening hand, you can get wasted out of the game easily. Also, be careful against Kolagan's Command; all your threats fall to that easily. I've lost to K Command + Snap + K Command again. Game (shake hand).

    If you want the Furnaces, I'd do Storm -> Pia and Kiran Nalaar. Gives you 7-8 reasons to run the extra artifact, and PnK is decent against Death and Taxes, esp because of the tokens (and it's Karakas-proof).

    With PnK, 3-4 Jitte in the SB is better than Sulfur Elemental. A metric fuckton more versatile, and harder for DnT and other decks to remove.

    Nobody will like this, but Forcefield can let your Karn-germs attack through a Bridge-like effect. Bouncing a fattie with Dead // Gone is doable, too. (PnK also chumps for a couple turns, woot!)

    I agree with you on the points. Valuable feedback, thanks.

    What do you mean with this?

    PnK is decent against Death and Taxes, esp because of the tokens (and it's Karakas-proof).
    PnK is legendary so that can be targeted by Karakas? And bounced?

    Do you know if anyone has experience with 2x Crystal Vein so in total 10x a 2 mana land effect? so 19 lands, 10 x double collerless and 9 normal mountains?

  6. #3846
    Site Contributor

    Join Date

    Dec 2013
    Posts

    319

    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by Kreeke86 View Post
    What do you mean with this?
    PnK is decent against Death and Taxes, esp because of the tokens (and it's Karakas-proof).

    PnK is legendary so that can be targeted by Karakas? And bounced?
    yes, it's legendary and can be bounced but if your opponent does bounce P&K that means you've already gotten two flying tokens.
    if your opponent wants to give you two more flying tokens when you RECAST P&K, then they can but that's to your advantage.

    it's the "feeling" that P&K is karakas proof that helps since you just recast P&K for more value...

  7. #3847

    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by non-inflammable View Post
    yes, it's legendary and can be bounced but if your opponent does bounce P&K that means you've already gotten two flying tokens.
    if your opponent wants to give you two more flying tokens when you RECAST P&K, then they can but that's to your advantage.

    it's the "feeling" that P&K is karakas proof that helps since you just recast P&K for more value...
    Got it. Great thanks.

    Did you test with Crystal Vein. Adding 2 times so you have 19 lands. 9 mountains and 10 2 Collerless mana lands?

  8. #3848
    Site Contributor

    Join Date

    Dec 2013
    Posts

    319

    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by Kreeke86 View Post
    Got it. Great thanks.

    Did you test with Crystal Vein. Adding 2 times so you have 19 lands. 9 mountains and 10 2 Collerless mana lands?
    i didn't test with crystal vein but there were many times i used fast mana (simian spirit or lotus petal) for an early play only to have it countered.
    several games after fast mana was used, 4 drops were stuck in my hand and i needed one more mana.
    granted, i only lost to BUG control, but i lost to it twice and my opponent even ran wasteland.

    this is close to what i ran last week:
    http://www.starcitygames.com/decks/125478

  9. #3849

    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by non-inflammable View Post
    i didn't test with crystal vein but there were many times i used fast mana (simian spirit or lotus petal) for an early play only to have it countered.
    several games after fast mana was used, 4 drops were stuck in my hand and i needed one more mana.
    granted, i only lost to BUG control, but i lost to it twice and my opponent even ran wasteland.

    this is close to what i ran last week:
    http://www.starcitygames.com/decks/125478
    Nice. Did you try Chaos Warp. Any experience with it?
    Why the split in mountain and snow covered mountain?

  10. #3850
    Site Contributor

    Join Date

    Dec 2013
    Posts

    319

    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by Kreeke86 View Post
    Nice. Did you try Chaos Warp. Any experience with it?
    Why the split in mountain and snow covered mountain?
    no on the chaos warp, but the split is a hedge against miracles decks that run predict

  11. #3851

    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by Kreeke86 View Post
    Do you know if anyone has experience with 2x Crystal Vein so in total 10x a 2 mana land effect? so 19 lands, 10 x double collerless and 9 normal mountains?
    I've got a slightly different manabase (and angle) to Dragon Stompy. I run 22 land, 4 Chrome and 4 SSG. So some things I noticed with my own manabase:

    I run 10 Mountain (plus Chrome and SSG) which is perfect for casting all your R2 effects. When I had 9, my mulligans based on not having red mana jumped up. I never had to mull at 10 Mountain, which seems the sweet spot for me, based on running single R spells.

    For my 22 lands, 12 are colorless. So running a few Crystal Vein should be fine. I like the idea because you have the option to crack it for T1 plays, or not. Lotus Petal doesn't have that option. 2 Seems great. That's an opinion without playing it, though.

    (FYI I'm not a huge fan of Great Furnace because if you drop it T1, you're going to get Wasted out of the game. For that risk I think you need more synergy.)

    My manabase was perfect for a deck that ran almost all CMC2 and CMC3 spells, just 4x CMC4. It's my play preference and philosophy. I don't like mulling a hand where I can play a T1 Chalice but have no other follow-up.
    Final Ritual: "I was your round 14 opponent with the 3 giant goyfs. I didn't know what the fuck you were piloting."
    Drunken Master strategy. If I don't know what I'm doing, how would you?

  12. #3852
    bruizar
    Guest

    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    My list uses Najeela, the Blade-Blossom, Ahn-Crop Crasher and Goblin Cratermaker. This allows me both more explosive plays, better defensive plays, and I can keep applying pressure even when there's a Gurmag Angler staring down at me.

    I ended up cutting Ghitu Encampment, but it's noteworthy that this card turns into a Warrior and the first strike comes in handy sometimes.

  13. #3853

    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by bruizar View Post
    My list uses Najeela, the Blade-Blossom, Ahn-Crop Crasher and Goblin Cratermaker. This allows me both more explosive plays, better defensive plays, and I can keep applying pressure even when there's a Gurmag Angler staring down at me.

    I ended up cutting Ghitu Encampment, but it's noteworthy that this card turns into a Warrior and the first strike comes in handy sometimes.
    Cratermaker is fantastic. Absolutely great, esp for killing Jittes and Swords of Fire and Ice. (Moxen, too.) Najeela I think is way worse than Garrison. Crasher seems really under-powered for Legacy.
    Final Ritual: "I was your round 14 opponent with the 3 giant goyfs. I didn't know what the fuck you were piloting."
    Drunken Master strategy. If I don't know what I'm doing, how would you?

  14. #3854
    bruizar
    Guest

    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by frogger42 View Post
    Cratermaker is fantastic. Absolutely great, esp for killing Jittes and Swords of Fire and Ice. (Moxen, too.) Najeela I think is way worse than Garrison. Crasher seems really under-powered for Legacy.
    I like the curve on crasher + najeela. Ahn-Crop crasher allows me to push through Gurmag Anglers and Tarmogoyfs without having to sacrifice my board so I'm never pushed into a defensive role. The haste helps a lot. Turn 2 Najeela, Turn 3 Crasher attack = 8 damage, into turn 4 attack with everthing = 12 damage. Najeela turns every other creature in the deck into token generators, including the tokens themselves.

  15. #3855

    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by bruizar View Post
    I like the curve on crasher + najeela. Ahn-Crop crasher allows me to push through Gurmag Anglers and Tarmogoyfs without having to sacrifice my board so I'm never pushed into a defensive role. The haste helps a lot. Turn 2 Najeela, Turn 3 Crasher attack = 8 damage, into turn 4 attack with everthing = 12 damage. Najeela turns every other creature in the deck into token generators, including the tokens themselves.
    I'm not a fan of Najeela because she bounces to Karakas, or you get 2-for-1'd off K Command. The goblins at least give you a chance to make a token if your opponent can't kill it on your turn (plus the token has haste, to deal with Lilianas).

    Crasher seems like it just deals with certain fatties. That helps Rabble, true, but not if there's a second dork out. I'm not sure Crasher wants to be an aggro synergy piece in a deck with prison pieces and otherwise game-changing 3-drops.
    Final Ritual: "I was your round 14 opponent with the 3 giant goyfs. I didn't know what the fuck you were piloting."
    Drunken Master strategy. If I don't know what I'm doing, how would you?

  16. #3856
    bruizar
    Guest

    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by frogger42 View Post
    I'm not a fan of Najeela because she bounces to Karakas, or you get 2-for-1'd off K Command. The goblins at least give you a chance to make a token if your opponent can't kill it on your turn (plus the token has haste, to deal with Lilianas).

    Crasher seems like it just deals with certain fatties. That helps Rabble, true, but not if there's a second dork out. I'm not sure Crasher wants to be an aggro synergy piece in a deck with prison pieces and otherwise game-changing 3-drops.
    The weakness to karakas is unfortunate but so far I haven't suffered from it. Crasher only really works because of Najeela's tribal synergy. I've evaded not just Gurmag Anglers but also Veteran Explorers that try to chump block. To me it plays an integral part of the strategy because it never lures me into making a mistake by misassigning my role. It feels almost like a burn deck in that sense. i'm not sure whether it's actually better or just a different approach. Just wanted to get it out there and contribute to the hive mind.

  17. #3857

    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by bruizar View Post
    The weakness to karakas is unfortunate but so far I haven't suffered from it. Crasher only really works because of Najeela's tribal synergy. I've evaded not just Gurmag Anglers but also Veteran Explorers that try to chump block. To me it plays an integral part of the strategy because it never lures me into making a mistake by misassigning my role. It feels almost like a burn deck in that sense. i'm not sure whether it's actually better or just a different approach. Just wanted to get it out there and contribute to the hive mind.
    Yeah, it's helpful to get different ideas out to try. I played a set of Hazorets instead of Najeela - what I really loved about that was it ate Strixes and Anglers all day long. But when it came time to face DnT, it was a huge 4 mana liability, and I kept siding them out all the time, just because one Karakas would make it so hard to recover. (I side out Chalices and Blood Moons vs DnT, so having 12 cards to take out is too much.) So that's my experience with Karakas. I love some of these Red Legendaries, but it's another nail in your coffin when DnT is a prevalent non-Blue deck.

    It seems like Crasher is good synergy - would Jitte be better? More control/prison-y, plus it's better synergy with all the token generators.
    Final Ritual: "I was your round 14 opponent with the 3 giant goyfs. I didn't know what the fuck you were piloting."
    Drunken Master strategy. If I don't know what I'm doing, how would you?

  18. #3858
    bruizar
    Guest

    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by frogger42 View Post
    Yeah, it's helpful to get different ideas out to try. I played a set of Hazorets instead of Najeela - what I really loved about that was it ate Strixes and Anglers all day long. But when it came time to face DnT, it was a huge 4 mana liability, and I kept siding them out all the time, just because one Karakas would make it so hard to recover. (I side out Chalices and Blood Moons vs DnT, so having 12 cards to take out is too much.) So that's my experience with Karakas. I love some of these Red Legendaries, but it's another nail in your coffin when DnT is a prevalent non-Blue deck.

    It seems like Crasher is good synergy - would Jitte be better? More control/prison-y, plus it's better synergy with all the token generators.
    I think Jitte is a great card, haven't played with it for years so I'm a bit lost on where it stands in the meta.

    Yesterday I went 3-1 and played another match that I won afterwards with Najeela. I played 1 Hazoret but it was underwhelming last night, but I don't think the card is bad.

    1-2 on the draw Death Shadow -> I was on the winning hand in the third game, then stumbled after my Ancient Tomb ate a wasteland and I was stuck on 2 mountains.
    2-1 on the draw Death Shadow
    2-0 on the draw Mud
    2-1 on the play Burn
    ----
    2-1 on the draw Eldrazi
    Last edited by bruizar; 02-16-2019 at 05:07 AM.

  19. #3859

    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    I just won the Legacy Challenge with Red Prison. I played against combo in 8 of my 10 rounds, so I was highly rewarded for my deck choice. The decklist feels great and is the same one that Butakov played to a 6th place finish a week or two ago. I'd probably swap the Cage for a Lotus Petal, Sorcerous Spyglass, or 3rd Bridge though if I were to run this back.

  20. #3860

    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by Medea_ View Post
    I just won the Legacy Challenge with Red Prison. I played against combo in 8 of my 10 rounds, so I was highly rewarded for my deck choice. The decklist feels great and is the same one that Butakov played to a 6th place finish a week or two ago. I'd probably swap the Cage for a Lotus Petal, Sorcerous Spyglass, or 3rd Bridge though if I were to run this back.
    Good work! What was the issue with cage? Conflict with chalice, were the leylines adequate.....?

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)