Does anyone have any thoughts on the new Grenzo? Hitting your opponents with 4 creatures in one turn, exiling 4 cards that they don't get back ... sounds more "fun" than "good" but for some reason I think it's hilarious to "eat" your opponents answers while you smack them in the face.
Also, on a more serious note, I got my Chrome Moxen in the mail, so tomorrow night I will try them out.
Proposed list:
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
8 Mountain
4 Chrome Mox
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
4 Sudden Shock
4 Blood Moon
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Hanweir Garrison
4 Scab-Clan Berserker
2 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
Sideboard:
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Shattering Spree
3 Sulfur Elemental
3 Trinisphere
2 Ensnaring Bridge
If this is the configuration that I use until Kaladesh, the Pia and Kiran will be turned into the new Pia Nalaar, she costs 1 less and her unblockable ability sounds too good to pass up. Also, with that unblockable ability, I wonder if Hangarback Walker would be a good addition. It gives multiple uses of her ability, and leaves chump blockers behind.
EDIT: Nobody showed up for the tournament. I guess I will have to wait until next week.
Last edited by AceOfJacks; 09-16-2016 at 12:04 AM.
One nice thing about the goblin version is that you don't need to attack to kill your opponent. Because of this, against merfolk we can easily side in Ensnaring Bridge and steal the game if it lands.Originally Posted by ZTurgeon
I'll also agree that DnT is a horrible matchup, but not because they run basics like AceOfJacks mentioned. Their deck can just shut down our cards with mom and revoker backed by heavy land disruption, which just turns our deck off unless we draw well. Anarchy, Pyrokinesis, and Sulfur Elemental all work well here out of the sideboard. I'm running a 2/2/1 split between the three at the moment.
Burn is in a funny place. I don't think that it's unfavorable if you run 3Sphere and Chalice. It might even be favorable in that case.
The more we try to be 3 drop aggro and less big red prison the worse spell based aggro matchups like burn and storm are going to be. This is why I feel that getting away from our roots too much puts us in a poor spot and makes me really dislike the idea of cutting 3Sphere. I feel that we can give a little in our main vs fair decks since the goblin version can grind pretty hard. Instead, lets take all precautions to crush the unfair decks with moons, chalices, and spheres.
I'm not sure why that would be. Could you explain your reasoning for this statement? It seems like hitting more 3-drops instead of 4-5 drops would just make you quicker and more efficient. Most of those 4-5 drops were big dumb beaters, anyway, not prison pieces - trading them for 3-drop beaters just hits me as being... much better. In no possible way worse.
As for Burn, they really don't care about Trinisphere. Generally, they land a bolt or two before Trini hits, and then keep non-interacting with you with burn spells when they hit 3 lands.
Final Ritual: "I was your round 14 opponent with the 3 giant goyfs. I didn't know what the fuck you were piloting."
Drunken Master strategy. If I don't know what I'm doing, how would you?
Burn hitting 3 lands is not a forgone conclusion. If they ever miss land drops, then you buy free turns. My favorite is catching Rift Bolt in suspension when Burn has <3 lands in play. *moral victory*.
P.S: I'm 3-0 against Burn in Grand Prix matches with Dragon Stompy using my November build.
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Find me on MTGO as Koby or rukcus -- @MTGKoby on Twitter
* Maverick is dead. Long live Maverick!
My Legacy stream
My MTG Blog - Work in progress
And I'm 12-3 with Somber Hoverguard in GPs. Legacy GPs. I personally think that's more impressive.
Stranding a Rift Bolt is absolutely game-swinging. I've won every game I stranded one - burn really needs that one extra card to the dome. But that's about all Trinisphere is really going to do. It'll slow down a little, but if you don't land an efficient threat the next turn - say you keep drawing Trinis - then you'll still lose that game. An ideal hand to keep for burn is 2 lands, 5 burn. They can keep 1 landers, too, if they're G. Guide x2, a couple other 1-drops. Trinisphere will hose the risky keep - but your opp can just mull to 6 to find 2 lands. Drawing a 3rd land isn't that unattainable based on a good Burn hand. Basing your card choice on your opponent's misplaying, or worse, on blind luck in not drawing a 3rd land... eh, I just don't do that.
If you wanted to respond to the bigger debate about 3-drop beaters vs 4-drop beaters, go for it. That's really what I was not getting. I don't see any Dragons that I'd run over even Pia Nalaar, let alone Hanweir Garrison.
Final Ritual: "I was your round 14 opponent with the 3 giant goyfs. I didn't know what the fuck you were piloting."
Drunken Master strategy. If I don't know what I'm doing, how would you?
I haven't finalized my new list from the last year of goodies, but the issue with 3 cmc and 4 cmc has been on my foremind for a while. The issue I really faced was dealing with Tarmogoyf. Goblin Stompy is better equipped to deal with Goyf than Dragons. Conversely, Dragons are less prone to removal against those decks. Overall, I expect to face Goyf decks about half as frequently as I do facing DRS. For this reason I prefer to use Planeswalkers and Dragons versus the Goblin suite.
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Find me on MTGO as Koby or rukcus -- @MTGKoby on Twitter
* Maverick is dead. Long live Maverick!
My Legacy stream
My MTG Blog - Work in progress
So is the new Chandra going to be a 4 of in your build?
Sorry for the interruption, wanted to share that I went 4-0 (8-2 in games) in a small (<20) weekly yesterday, went up against Death and Taxes, Shardless BUG, Elves, and Grixis Delver splashing green for Abrupt Decay. Lost a game to Elves and to Grixis Delver, both times were because I just didn't draw gas.
1x Goblin Matron
4x Goblin Rabblemaster
1x Goblin Settler
1x Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1x Krenko, Mob Boss
3x Magus of the Moon
4x Moggcatcher
1x Murderous Redcap
2x Siege-Gang Commander
4x Simian Spirit Guide
1x Tuktuk Scrapper
4x Chalice of the Void
4x Chrome Mox
3x Trinisphere
2x Umezawa's Jitte
4x Blood Moon
4x Ancient Tomb
3x Cavern of Souls
4x City of Traitors
9x Mountain
Sideboard:
1x Boil
1x Dismember
3x Ensnaring Bridge
1x Goblin Chieftain
1x Goblin Sharpshooter
1x Koth of the Hammer
3x Leyline of the Void
2x Pyroblast
1x Sudden Demise
1x Warping Wail
R1: Death and Taxes, win the die roll with a 7.
G1: Mull to 6, scry Trinisphere to top, went Mountain, double Spirit Guide, Magus, pass. The hand wasn't able to do anything else but had another Mountain and Jitte, I was literally just banking on him not having removal... and it worked, he went Wasteland pass, and the rest of the game was him having nonbasics and me beating for 6.
+Sharpshooter +Wail +2 Bridge
-Moggcatcher -Krenko -Matron -Siege-gang
G2: Keep 7, he goes Plains Vial pass. I play Chalice on 1 off of a City and pass. He ticks Vial to 1 plays another plains and passes. I play a Chalice on 2 off of another City and pass. He ticks up vial to 2 and puts in a Revoker naming Moggcatcher and passes. I play a Mountain and an Ensnaring Bridge and the rest of the game is a grind as his only out is to Flickerwisp my Chalices to build a boardstate and eventually blink a Bridge, but I had two Rabblemasters out by the time he built up a board. And I put out a chalice on 3. He conceded after I had 30 tokens with 4 Chalice and all 3 Magus out.
The D&T matchup is usually super difficult, but I basically just got really lucky and he didn't draw anything decent. I've been wanting to put in an Anarchy in the side, but I don't really know what to take out for it.
R2: Shardless BUG, win the die roll with Hearts Boxcars.
G1: Keep 7, Play a Trinisphere off of a Tomb and Mox exiling Krenko. He plays a Tropical Island, suspends an Ancestral Visions and passes. I play a Rabblemaster, beat for 1, and pass. He plays a fetch and passes. I don't do anything besides gen a token, beat for 4, and pass. He plays another fetch and gets a Bayou and an Underground Sea, casts Painful Truths for the full value and passes. I finally draw a moon effect and he scoops.
+Boil +2 Pyroblast +Demise
-Matron -Settler - Krenko -Siege-gang
G2: I don't remember much about this game, I know that he almost snap kept his opener because it had Force in it, but he had to mull because it had no other blue cards in it. I also remember him Hymning me twice but he never got any creatures, and I just played Blood Moon and won.
This is about how the Shardless matchup goes. Cast Blood Moon, hope that it resolves and that they don't float Abrupt Decay mana, if they don't do anything, you win. If not, you've got to actually play the game. Or if they fetch basics, then you've got to actually play the game, but the rest of the lock pieces help with that.
R3: Elves, GB grindy version, win the die roll with a hard 4.
G1: Keep 7, play Chalice on 1 off of a Tomb after griping about how I never saw Chalice against the Elves! player at GP Columbus. He goes Cavern, Deathrite, pass. I play a mountain and get a Blood Moon out, and he doesn't draw any basics for the rest of the game. I eventually draw a Rabblemaster and kill him with that.
+2 Bridge +Sharpshooter +Demise +Wail
-Scrapper -2 Trinisphere -Matron -Krenko
G2: Keep 7, and second verse is almost the same as the first, but this time he draws basics. And I don't draw Rabblemaster, or anything else for that matter, I only get lock pieces and he has Abrupt for the Chalices that I put on 1. And I can't empty my hand fast enough for Bridge to stop the onslaught of 1/1s and 2/2s.
No sideboard changes.
G3: Mull to 6, as the 7 was 5 lands and 2 Seige-gangs. I get out a Chalice on 1, then a Chalice on 2, and he doesn't draw Caverns, or any removal for it, so I won. No Blood Moon, but triple Rabblemaster usually gets there against non-Miracles opponents.
I wasn't sure how this would go, since my only experience with any elves deck was one where I didn't draw Chalice, and I was on a version of the deck that ran 2 Winter orbs main, but I was hopeful. Turns out it just needed to be played like the D&T matchup, keep their utility lands down, punish them if they build up too large of a board state, hope to race them.
R4: Grixis Delver splash green, win the die roll with an easy 8.
I didn't take any notes and I don't remember much about this round, except for game 3 where I was at 2 from Young Pyro+tokens+Deathrite beats, drew and resolved a Moggcatcher and a Jitte, then tutored up Siege-Gang, Kiki-jiki, and Redcap for the win. He wouldn't have seen any burn until two turns after he was dead.
I remember Blood Moon and Murderous Redcap were all stars, and I pitched a Spirit Guide to Pyroblast his Force to resolve a Blood Moon.
No, I don't think Chandra Torch of Defiance is worth 4 copies in any Legacy deck. I am going with 2 copies, and supplementing her with 2 Koths as well. Chandra is good as a card advantage engine and a short boost. Koth is best are pressuring slow decks. A combination of both is likely needed due to the varied nature of the Legacy.
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Find me on MTGO as Koby or rukcus -- @MTGKoby on Twitter
* Maverick is dead. Long live Maverick!
My Legacy stream
My MTG Blog - Work in progress
Disagree. Chandra's -3 helps get your Garrison / Rabble tokens through. That's a significant difference over Koth, who only removes threats with his emblem. Chandra x4, absolutely.
Final Ritual: "I was your round 14 opponent with the 3 giant goyfs. I didn't know what the fuck you were piloting."
Drunken Master strategy. If I don't know what I'm doing, how would you?
Koby's list for reference:
http://tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=18155&iddeck=137173
4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance would be pretty klunky in that build.
I can only imagine her as a 4-of in a list that main decks 4 Ensnaring Bridge.
I'm a little confused here. Are you disagreeing that Koth is better versus slow decks because Chandra's -3?
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Find me on MTGO as Koby or rukcus -- @MTGKoby on Twitter
* Maverick is dead. Long live Maverick!
My Legacy stream
My MTG Blog - Work in progress
Chandra is a better card than koth overall, no questions asked. This doesn't mean we have to play 4 copies of her. I will probably start with 3 chandra 2 koth, and this will let me maindeck 2/3 ensnaring bridge because i can win with planeswalkers and my other treats all have 1 or 2 power (rabblemaster, garrison, pia e kiran).
Can you post your decklist you have in mind?
Here are some links to the different iterations of the deck, for reference:
Dragon Stompy on TC Decks
Dragon Stompy
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8
Goblin Stompy
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8
Planeswalker Stompy
1, 2, 3, 4, 5
Werewolf Stompy
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6
Red Stompy
1, 2, 3, 4, 5
Hellbent Stompy
1, 2, 3, 4
Human Stompy
1
Yes. To quote myself: "Chandra's -3 helps get your Garrison / Rabble tokens through. That's a significant difference over Koth, who only removes threats with his emblem." Unless you're jamming Moggcatcher x7-8, Garrison and Rabble are probably going to be in your deck, as they are CMC 3 need to answer threats. Much better than TBR and dragons and Co. Chandra removes blockers, I should've said.
If you don't want to run the fastest mono-Red clocks in the format, at CMC 3 anyway, then maybe Chandra won't be in your deck.
Final Ritual: "I was your round 14 opponent with the 3 giant goyfs. I didn't know what the fuck you were piloting."
Drunken Master strategy. If I don't know what I'm doing, how would you?
I agree with you regarding Chandra's utility against blockers. My point is that she's not that great against slow decks; decks with no blockers/threats. In these matchups, Koth shines. That's my prime point. Seeing how Miracles is the best top tier deck, I don't want 4x "Chandra Do Nothing", I want both a mix of Chandra + Non-Chandra walkers. I don't think ANY walker is ideal against decks that present 2/2 and larger creatures, because our creatures SUCK at blocking.
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Find me on MTGO as Koby or rukcus -- @MTGKoby on Twitter
* Maverick is dead. Long live Maverick!
My Legacy stream
My MTG Blog - Work in progress
In my limited testing with her, she has been pretty great against Miracles, more or less functioning as a Sulfuric Vortex/Howling Mine that they need to get off the table in 3 turns. I still don't think you should run 4 of her outside of a 4 ensnaring bridge shell, but she has really not had a bad matchup outside of the already terrible death and taxes and A+B Combo decks.
What are people's opinions toward vehicles in the deck?
The overall consensus I've seen online is that vehicles aren't terrible and, in fact, may be much better than people think...
At a minimum, I intend to pick up a Fleetwheel Cruiser and Smuggler's Copter to try out. I'm not sold on the Copter, but I'm pretty convinced the Cruiser has what it takes to be playable. Currently I picture them taking the place of equipment, and I picture them as 1-ofs.
Fleetwheel Cruiser having Crew 2 is pretty ideal for this deck. Often you do not want to attack with your Magus due to on-board blockers or the threat of a surprise Snapcaster Mage. Cruiser being colorless gets around Protection-based effects. And 5 power is pretty huge in Legacy. Oh yeah, and haste!
In a stalled out game, I hate having an equipment on the field and an empty hand only to draw/play/equip a creature that gets killed before I can untap with it.
Smuggler's Copter is looking to be played in a majority of standard decks for the season. The looting ability is just insane and could be a very real way of filtering for this deck. Makes any goblin token or other creature you have currently stonewalled into 3 damage + filter, I can't imagine that being bad at all.
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