Just checking, because context (you said 'them') implies you misunderstood me. I was suggesting Pia Nalaar, not Pia and Kiran Nalaar.
In my limited experience, you are generally safe playing extra Copters because it lets you loot away redundant copies. The 'fat' creatures I'm trying were chosen specifically because Copter minimizes their downside. And they curve nicely when you open with an aggressive hand (turn 1 Copter; turn 2 Watchkeep/Behemoth, crew and swing with Copter).
I also like turn 1 Behemoth; turn 2 Chandra, add and attack for 5 with Behemoth.
Hi,
I usually play R/W Taxes but I am on Dragon Stompy at the moment. I played the following list in our monthly tournament (31 Players) for a 5-1 result. I played a modified list of Wichtelmann:
/NAME:
4 Blood Moon
4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
4 Fiery Confluence
1 Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
4 Magus of the Moon
1 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Sin Prodder
2 Sudden Shock
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Chrome Mox
3 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Trinisphere
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
10 Mountain
Sideboard:
3 Mindbreak Trap
3 Faerie Macabre
2 Pyrokinesis
1 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Karakas
Wins were: B/W Stoneblade, MUD, Eldrazi, Grixis Delver and Infect. Lost to Turbo Depths
Yes. I meant Kiran. But I'm not impressed by Pia herself either.
I understand your idea. But you do realize that once your fatties aren't sick, you will be swinging with them instead of Copter? You don't run enough creatures to keep Copter going without losing an attacker. That's why I like it more with the token generators.
I did get some testing last night. I believe the changes I'll be making to the main are -2 Phoenix, -1 3 Sphere, +2 Copter, +1 Chandra. Copter is just much better, and I'm only losing one red card this way. SB I'm on now is:
2 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Sulfur Elemental
2 Trinisphere
4 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Faerie Macabre
2 Pyrokenisis
1 Stormbreath Dragon
But that was just to put an exact 15 for last night.
Originally Posted by GreenMycon
I played a very similar deck to 3-1 at my LGS:
1x Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
4x Magus of the Moon
2x Pia and Kiran Nalaar
1x Quicksmith Rebel
4x Simian Spirit Guide
3x Sin Prodder
4x Fiery Confluence
4x Blood Moon
4x Chandra, Torch of Defiance
4x Chalice of the Void
4x Chrome Mox
4x Ensnaring Bridge
3x Trinisphere
4x Ancient Tomb
4x City of Traitors
10x Mountain
Sideboard
3x Faerie Macabre
2x Phyrexian Revoker
2x Pyrokinesis
1x Sudden Demise
2x Sudden Shock
2x Sulfur Elemental
2x Thorn of Amethyst
1x Tormod's Crypt
R1 against Pascal on Patriot Delver 2-1
R2 against Oliver on Food Chain 2-1
R3 against Simon on Death and Taxes 2-0
R4 against Matej on Sneak and Show 1-2
In almost all matches except against Food Chain Ensnaring Bridge was the most important card. It won against TNN and it won the game against Sneak and Show.
One consequence of always baoding out Sin Paordder would be to cut them for something more proactive like Walking Ballista or Phyrexian Revoker.
Chalice on 1
Does anyone else play the goblin package? Does no one respect Moggcatcher?
Just haven't been excited by it recently.
When foil copies of Combat Celebrant drop further I'll probably try it again.
Last edited by Ace/Homebrew; 08-11-2017 at 09:51 PM.
I had a lot of success with moggcatcher when the post-top meta was in its very early stages, including a 5-0, although it wasn't posted.
I ended up switching to the bridge/walker version after I started losing a lot to the various UR decks that have become increasingly popular, however I still think it's quite strong. I was also running bridge main in that deck, moggcatcher is still quite good at winning the game under bridge. I was still running 3 chandra main with a smaller goblin package to make room of 4 rabblemaster, 1 tuktuk, 1 kiki, 1 siegegang, 1 settler, 1 redcap. It's a very flexible deck and I love settler, he's the biggest thing I miss. However playing a 4 drop that's a 2/2 that needs a turn to do anything feels really bad against some decks.
EDIT:: on the subject of settler has anyone had success with stone rain effects, or even stone rain itself, in non-goblin stompy lists hostorically? The effect is insanely strong against some control decks that run 1-3 basics.
I had moderate success with Avalanche rider in the mono-humans style builds a while back, but I don't know how viable that is these days.
The non-matching Siege-Gang Commander gives me cancer.
My problem with Goblin version is that it is way more controlling in the games you are losing but it's still hard to end the game before they break out.
I'm playing a copy of Avalanche Riders in the board of my Imperial Recruiter build and it has been fun. For anyone who likes the tool box nature of the Moggcatcher builds, I suggest giving Imperial Recruiter a whirl.
I've never played Stone Rain, but I have had some success with Pillage. It hits Mox Diamond as well!
The strength of the bridge/walker version is that almost every card has immediate impact the turn it comes down, almost every threat virtually ignores the battlefield and can deal damage behind bridge, and its threats are harder to remove. It's biggest weakness imo is every stomy decks weakness, which is heavy dependence on top decking well when you're behind.
The biggest strength of goblin stompy is a more varied toolbox of answers to specific threats and more virtual card advantage if a moggcatcher sticks. It's weakness is being a lot more vulnerable to creature removal. However if you run enough creatures you can overload their removal pretty easily.
There is also the no-bridge very aggro heavy builds which I can't really speak much about because I haven't tried it, but ideally I would say they forego parts of the prison plan to just kill opponents faster on the ground. I am personally not a huge fan of these builds in the current metagame because bridge is just crazy strong against every top deck right now except storm.
It was my first stompy variant for awhile. Like other people said it is quite flexible. Ideally you bait out removal for moggcatcher with some other target, or have a chalice on 1 to at least activate him once. Humans and goblins have the added benefit of being able to make use of cavern. I added Purphoros after seeing a guy do well with it in Japan. Purph into SGC is gross, and even a rabblemaster or kiki (or pia and nalaar...) can be a handful with him. He turns any topdecked creature into a shock, which isn't bad.
That was all before the top-ban though, the pure power of Chandra and Confluence are hard to ignore. In non-blue decks I try to keep my deck to at least 10% CA sources. In goblins I had 4 moggcatchers, 2 Chandra, and 3 SGC / Pia and Nalaar which gave me 9 cards total. Getting catcher plowed or removed DOES feel real bad.
Yeah does that include grixis or just Rx burn decks?
Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk
Specifically UR decks, both the aggro, tempo, and control variants.Originally Posted by jandax
UR delver is weak to chalice on one but runs more than enough basics to ignore our 8 moon effects. We don't really have a lot of effective sideboard options to replace moon post board either. Post board they side in usually 3 smash to smithereens. Basically it's the same difficulty we have against burn compounded by the fact that they have a robust countermagic suite.
UR tempo is similar except they play more 2-3 drops making it easier to play around chalice, and 4 snapcaster which post-board lets them get a lot more value out of their artifact destruction, making bridge and chalice less useful. Same problem of them running more than enough basics to virtually ignore moon.
I also saw a few experimental UR "control" lists running punishing fire and grove of the burnwillows without green cards, using it just to power punishing fire. A few others were running lists similar to responsiblejoseph's tempo list but without the tempo cards, focusing on landing blood moon, jace, and true-name, and protecting them with countermagic, burn, and snapcaster. I also saw several maindeck engineered explosives in these lists, presumably to kill chalice, which worked well against me.
Anyway back to my original point, all these decks are pretty hard for any stompy variant to deal with, but I've had the easiest time with the bridge/walker version because it's threats are better at eating red spells, at least trading for 2 of them in most cases. Moggcatcher just kept dying too easily.
@jandax, Grixis is a great matchup, I'm more than happy to play against any deck that doesn't run a single basic any day.
Bridge isn't great against them. Neither are a bunch of 2/2's that don't block fliers. At least with bridge I can use chrome mox to empty my hand quickly and actually hit 0 cards somewhat consistently.
However that isn't the primary reason I switched. Walkers are just better against them than moggcatcher in many cases.
A very aggro oriented list is probably much better at racing them. I was specifically talking about moggcatcher vs bridge/walker, and moggcatcher is quite slow. I don't play a fast aggro list though because I gear my deck to beat a majority of the field, and UR is not the majority of the field. There are enough people playing it though that I don't think moggcatcher is the best choice right now, although I still think it's pretty good.
That makes sense. So on that note; from what I've seen with the latest lists online, I don't imagine the Bridge version could possibly have a fast enough clock against the AnT decks running 2 Hurkyls and 2 By Force to kill them before they find some answer. The results I've seen support this, but I've not played that version against Storm. What is your experience without aggressive creature elements in this matchup?
Originally Posted by GreenMycon
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)