How good is blood sun in the current meta? Seems like there are a lot of basics running around, but being able to turn off fetches still seems really good plus we get to draw one and don't kill our cities. Has anyone done any serious testing with the card?
I have.
Why Blood Sun fails:
1) It's too slow.
Blood Sun is at its best Turn 1 on the play when your opponent is playing fetchlands or lands that have value due to their abilities. The only real way to hose fetchlands would be to print an anti-fetch Leyline, print zero-mana Stifles, or make Blood Sun cost one mana. At three mana, your opponent has usually cracked one or two fetchlands already, and that's all he will likely need to play Magic -- assuming he's even playing a deck dependent on fetchlands.
2) It's too conditional.
Blood Sun requires your opponent's deck to be full of fetchlands, but a look at Legacy manabases reveals that most decks play about half fetchlands, half non-fetchlands. If your opponent draws at least part of the the non-fetchland half, Blood Sun has done effectively nothing. Perhaps it has disabled one land, likely denying a single shuffle after a Brainstorm. That's not much.
3) It doesn't do enough.
Even though it shuts off your opponent's fetchlands, your opponent is playing Legacy, so his deck's curve is most likely low. This means he's still able to play out one-drops and two-drops and potentially still able to curve out on time. When your opponent draws his dual lands and/or basic lands, Blood Sun won't be doing anything.
4) It doesn't affect the board.
Assuming you draw Blood Sun after Turn 3, it's simply a three-mana cantrip, which is too slow for Legacy.
The fringe benefits of Blood Sun:
Blood Sun makes City of Traitors better, but this is kind of a trap because it makes you play more copies of that traitorous card, and if your attempt at T1 Blood Sun gets countered, you've likely set yourself up to lose the game because your next land drop will cause you to lose the City.
Blood Sun vs. Blood Moon
Blood Sun is better against fetchlands than Blood Moon is against nonbasics, since it makes them produce zero mana instead of one red mana, but the power level of Blood Moon is higher because it hits a greater percentage of lands in your opponent's deck.
Hi All,
I play different versions of mono red prison / dragon stompy for almost 2 years and see it changing from control/lock to quite aggressive. Experimented with actual dragons, wishboard etc.
Below I copied an updated version which is 100% aggro and less prison.
Major changes:
Chandra ==> Karn, Scion of Urza
4 mountains ==> 4 artifact land
No more bridge mainboard ==> extra Captain Lannery Storm for speed and artifact creation
I would like to hear from this community what you think:
Mainboard:
4x city of traitors
4x ancient tomb
4x great furnace
7x mountain
4x chrome mox
4x chalice of the void
4x simian spirit guide
4x blood moon
3x trinisphere
3x fiery confluence
4x magus of the moon
4x karn, scion of urza
4x legion warboss
4x goblin rabblemaster
3x captain lannery storm
Sideboard:
4x ensnaring bridge
4x leyline of the void
4x sulfur elemental
3x scab-clan berserker
Tips and sideboard plans are welcome.
Ruud-Maarten
I hate Lannery Storm. Not a brick house in terms of legacy power. IMO, it's not worth running the Great Furnace x4 just for Karn. With Furnace and City in your opening hand, you can get wasted out of the game easily. Also, be careful against Kolagan's Command; all your threats fall to that easily. I've lost to K Command + Snap + K Command again. Game (shake hand).
If you want the Furnaces, I'd do Storm -> Pia and Kiran Nalaar. Gives you 7-8 reasons to run the extra artifact, and PnK is decent against Death and Taxes, esp because of the tokens (and it's Karakas-proof).
With PnK, 3-4 Jitte in the SB is better than Sulfur Elemental. A metric fuckton more versatile, and harder for DnT and other decks to remove.
Nobody will like this, but Forcefield can let your Karn-germs attack through a Bridge-like effect. Bouncing a fattie with Dead // Gone is doable, too. (PnK also chumps for a couple turns, woot!)
Final Ritual: "I was your round 14 opponent with the 3 giant goyfs. I didn't know what the fuck you were piloting."
Drunken Master strategy. If I don't know what I'm doing, how would you?
I agree with you on the points. Valuable feedback, thanks.
What do you mean with this?
PnK is decent against Death and Taxes, esp because of the tokens (and it's Karakas-proof).
PnK is legendary so that can be targeted by Karakas? And bounced?
Do you know if anyone has experience with 2x Crystal Vein so in total 10x a 2 mana land effect? so 19 lands, 10 x double collerless and 9 normal mountains?
yes, it's legendary and can be bounced but if your opponent does bounce P&K that means you've already gotten two flying tokens.
if your opponent wants to give you two more flying tokens when you RECAST P&K, then they can but that's to your advantage.
it's the "feeling" that P&K is karakas proof that helps since you just recast P&K for more value...
i didn't test with crystal vein but there were many times i used fast mana (simian spirit or lotus petal) for an early play only to have it countered.
several games after fast mana was used, 4 drops were stuck in my hand and i needed one more mana.
granted, i only lost to BUG control, but i lost to it twice and my opponent even ran wasteland.
this is close to what i ran last week:
http://www.starcitygames.com/decks/125478
no on the chaos warp, but the split is a hedge against miracles decks that run predict
I've got a slightly different manabase (and angle) to Dragon Stompy. I run 22 land, 4 Chrome and 4 SSG. So some things I noticed with my own manabase:
I run 10 Mountain (plus Chrome and SSG) which is perfect for casting all your R2 effects. When I had 9, my mulligans based on not having red mana jumped up. I never had to mull at 10 Mountain, which seems the sweet spot for me, based on running single R spells.
For my 22 lands, 12 are colorless. So running a few Crystal Vein should be fine. I like the idea because you have the option to crack it for T1 plays, or not. Lotus Petal doesn't have that option. 2 Seems great. That's an opinion without playing it, though.
(FYI I'm not a huge fan of Great Furnace because if you drop it T1, you're going to get Wasted out of the game. For that risk I think you need more synergy.)
My manabase was perfect for a deck that ran almost all CMC2 and CMC3 spells, just 4x CMC4. It's my play preference and philosophy. I don't like mulling a hand where I can play a T1 Chalice but have no other follow-up.
Final Ritual: "I was your round 14 opponent with the 3 giant goyfs. I didn't know what the fuck you were piloting."
Drunken Master strategy. If I don't know what I'm doing, how would you?
My list uses Najeela, the Blade-Blossom, Ahn-Crop Crasher and Goblin Cratermaker. This allows me both more explosive plays, better defensive plays, and I can keep applying pressure even when there's a Gurmag Angler staring down at me.
I ended up cutting Ghitu Encampment, but it's noteworthy that this card turns into a Warrior and the first strike comes in handy sometimes.
Final Ritual: "I was your round 14 opponent with the 3 giant goyfs. I didn't know what the fuck you were piloting."
Drunken Master strategy. If I don't know what I'm doing, how would you?
I like the curve on crasher + najeela. Ahn-Crop crasher allows me to push through Gurmag Anglers and Tarmogoyfs without having to sacrifice my board so I'm never pushed into a defensive role. The haste helps a lot. Turn 2 Najeela, Turn 3 Crasher attack = 8 damage, into turn 4 attack with everthing = 12 damage. Najeela turns every other creature in the deck into token generators, including the tokens themselves.
I'm not a fan of Najeela because she bounces to Karakas, or you get 2-for-1'd off K Command. The goblins at least give you a chance to make a token if your opponent can't kill it on your turn (plus the token has haste, to deal with Lilianas).
Crasher seems like it just deals with certain fatties. That helps Rabble, true, but not if there's a second dork out. I'm not sure Crasher wants to be an aggro synergy piece in a deck with prison pieces and otherwise game-changing 3-drops.
Final Ritual: "I was your round 14 opponent with the 3 giant goyfs. I didn't know what the fuck you were piloting."
Drunken Master strategy. If I don't know what I'm doing, how would you?
The weakness to karakas is unfortunate but so far I haven't suffered from it. Crasher only really works because of Najeela's tribal synergy. I've evaded not just Gurmag Anglers but also Veteran Explorers that try to chump block. To me it plays an integral part of the strategy because it never lures me into making a mistake by misassigning my role. It feels almost like a burn deck in that sense. i'm not sure whether it's actually better or just a different approach. Just wanted to get it out there and contribute to the hive mind.
Yeah, it's helpful to get different ideas out to try. I played a set of Hazorets instead of Najeela - what I really loved about that was it ate Strixes and Anglers all day long. But when it came time to face DnT, it was a huge 4 mana liability, and I kept siding them out all the time, just because one Karakas would make it so hard to recover. (I side out Chalices and Blood Moons vs DnT, so having 12 cards to take out is too much.) So that's my experience with Karakas. I love some of these Red Legendaries, but it's another nail in your coffin when DnT is a prevalent non-Blue deck.
It seems like Crasher is good synergy - would Jitte be better? More control/prison-y, plus it's better synergy with all the token generators.
Final Ritual: "I was your round 14 opponent with the 3 giant goyfs. I didn't know what the fuck you were piloting."
Drunken Master strategy. If I don't know what I'm doing, how would you?
I think Jitte is a great card, haven't played with it for years so I'm a bit lost on where it stands in the meta.
Yesterday I went 3-1 and played another match that I won afterwards with Najeela. I played 1 Hazoret but it was underwhelming last night, but I don't think the card is bad.
1-2 on the draw Death Shadow -> I was on the winning hand in the third game, then stumbled after my Ancient Tomb ate a wasteland and I was stuck on 2 mountains.
2-1 on the draw Death Shadow
2-0 on the draw Mud
2-1 on the play Burn
----
2-1 on the draw Eldrazi
Last edited by bruizar; 02-16-2019 at 05:07 AM.
I just won the Legacy Challenge with Red Prison. I played against combo in 8 of my 10 rounds, so I was highly rewarded for my deck choice. The decklist feels great and is the same one that Butakov played to a 6th place finish a week or two ago. I'd probably swap the Cage for a Lotus Petal, Sorcerous Spyglass, or 3rd Bridge though if I were to run this back.
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